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Author Topic: Time Jump  (Read 4651 times)

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Dragon Cat

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #75 on: October 23, 2012, 09:23:31 AM »

Because no matter how "loud" the internet gets, sales don't lie.   

They will if there's only one cookie left.

Herb, Kit and GhostBear all pretty much said that Knightmare this is their chance to make moves on the BattleTech universe. 

Don't trust Kit, he lies, unless there is only one cookie left.

So does Herb sometimes, just to wind people up  ;)  But it's still fun to speculate

I personally believe we're heading into a realm where the Clans rule, and all the Succession Lords are the resistance.  I think it could be a lot of fun.
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My stuff, and my AU timeline follow link and enjoy

http://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/dragon-cat-collection/

The original CBT thread
Dragon Cat on CBT


Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

JPArbiter

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2012, 11:08:58 AM »

I think we are heading iunto a period where a clan may rule, but the culture will be so far removed from the clans as we know them that we will not recognize them as such.

The Wars of Reaving Proved the failure of Clan Culture, and the clans that relocated to the Inner Sphere knew it.
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BattleTech products aren't Pokemon Cards. You don't have to catch, or collect them all.

WHAT NO ONE EVER TOLD ME THAT!

Dread Moores

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #77 on: October 23, 2012, 12:16:51 PM »

I believe we are heading into a time where Kit will sit on a turquoise throne, built entirely from the detritus of forum lies and fallen threads, ruling as only a crazed nuclear chaos could, until the universe grows cold and dark. There might also be sandwiches.
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JPArbiter

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2012, 03:21:10 PM »

and now I am suddenly hungry
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BattleTech products aren't Pokemon Cards. You don't have to catch, or collect them all.

WHAT NO ONE EVER TOLD ME THAT!

Rainbow 6

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2012, 05:17:17 PM »

Me too  :'(
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Knightmare

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2012, 07:25:06 PM »

Because no matter how "loud" the internet gets, sales don't lie.   

They will if there's only one cookie left.

Herb, Kit and GhostBear all pretty much said that Knightmare this is their chance to make moves on the BattleTech universe. 

Don't trust Kit, he lies, unless there is only one cookie left.

This is very true, but if I want hard information I try to beat it out of a cat girl. It's a shame they're unreliable sources of information.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 09:33:44 AM by Knightmare »
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Ken

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2012, 10:10:50 PM »

I believe we are heading into a time where Kit will sit on a turquoise throne, built entirely from the detritus of forum lies and fallen threads, ruling as only a crazed nuclear chaos could, until the universe grows cold and dark. There might also be sandwiches.

No, pizza.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #82 on: October 24, 2012, 05:15:14 PM »

I'd like to note clearly that I was correct about the turquoise detritus throne. And the nuclear chaos part. All hail Azathoth...err God-Emperor...I mean, Kit!

Also, I'm now wondering how to stat Azathoth as a super-heavy 'Mech. I need more sleep.
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Minerva12345

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #83 on: October 25, 2012, 11:55:16 AM »

In my view the best (read cheapest) brand popularity recognition tool for BattleTech's overall popularity is Google Trends. The "battletech" words use has fallen about 80-85% since 2004 and has been in that very low level since early 2010. While it does not directly match the sales it shows general brand/name exposure and thus potential customer pool (first step of marketing and sales). It is also a good proxy to question how many old fans follow Battletech compared to other time consumption.

My conclusion is that BattleTech has obviously collapsed in the last decade as a brand. Given this fact it is obvious that company needs to do something to increase sales/customerbase. It can try to sell old settings but they appear to me to have been written, packaged and sold already. Thus 3145 and then 3250 seems to me as only ways to sell something (anything) and hope to gain more customers.
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Knightmare

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #84 on: October 25, 2012, 12:18:14 PM »

Have you checked the trend for the word "MechWarrior"?

You might want to.

BattleTech isn't the only name associated with the brand, nor is the table top game the only way to introduce new players to the universe. There's a reason why BattleTech.com and bg.battletech.com are two different websites.

That said, how would you increase brand exposure and overall popularity? How would you bring in new players?

Just curious.

(I'm trying to sound snarky, but I'm honestly interested.)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 12:36:25 PM by Knightmare »
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Quote from: Dragon Cat
WORD (of Blake) is good for two things. 1. Leaving inappropriate notes on other people's work. 2. Adding fake words (of Blake) to the dictionary.

Dread Moores

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #85 on: October 25, 2012, 01:04:06 PM »

First thing? Make sure the Phoenix designs are dead, forever and ever, in 3250. From a business stand point, there are way too many legal issues that continue to surround these designs. You can't use them as flagship designs for a new era when these issues continue to plague products using them. Yes, the vocal minority will wail and gnash teeth. That's going to happen any way. So yeah, that means no 3250 Phoenix updates. They served well, and it is time to move on with something fresh (and something with solid long-term business growth).

Second thing? The rules can no longer operate under some kind of inviolate clause. When the entire style of tabletop play shifts (as it has over the last two decades), new rule editions need to be able to innovate (and change) things as little or as drastically as needed to keep pace. Even changing something as time-honored as say, the critical location table (say maybe to get rid of it entirely) needs to be available to hit the chopping block, if there are solid ideas presented in its place. As much as some fans seem to want nothing more than wail and gnash teeth, BT isn't the rules. It's the setting. Do you have 'Mechs? Do you have war? Do you have nobles being evil, vicious buggers? Then you've landed smack dab in a bowl of BT.

On a side note, for those who want to go on about "But that didn't work with MWDA!"

You're correct, it didn't. That had less to do with innovation and change and more to do with poor game design and some very odd management and presentation decisions. The former do not automatically lead to the latter. Whether you think CGL can deliver the former? Well, that's a question only you can answer.

There's a list of other things, but most of them largely fall outside of CGL's control. That's more wish list territory.

Oh, thirdly, make sure the ruling faction on Terra has a turquoise throne.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 01:07:53 PM by Dread Moores »
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bjorn

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #86 on: October 25, 2012, 10:18:06 PM »

I am really looking forward to the time jump. I think it will do a lot to help rebrand battletech and give it direction for the future. I have a few things I would like to see take place in this new setting,in fact I will give a short list. Forgive me if battletech has already started to head in this direction. I have been out of the loop for a while.

1. make it possible to play a good sized battle in a realistic amount of time. Say company v. company in 2-3 hours. In fact, I would build the standard battletech game to be played at battleforce, or quickstrike, scale. I think we should still have rules for one on one battles that would equate to the same level as battletech (dueling rules), but a slightly larger scale would be better.

2. streamline the mech designs in common use to 50 or so, with many, but not all, faction specific designs. I would make omnimechs standard technology for all militaries and just run a handful of chasis per faction (say 4-6 for 8-10 factions at most) with several general purpose designs used by all houses. Currently there are way too many mech designs in the game.

3. streamline the factions to say around 8-10, either removing most of the clans or radically altering their culture. The clans were cool in the 90s but they are now very stale.

4. I like the shades of grey feel that battletech has, but I miss having a truely black hat faction (well I guess WOB fit this description to some extent). I miss the old Combine, space Japs were wonderful antogonists. They were an enemy that you could respect but loath at the same time. Teddy ruined this feel and I hope the DC heads back to their traditonal values.

5. Reestablish Mechs as the kings of the battlefield. The newest rule system gives vehicles too much surivability. I miss the days when heavy tanks could stand toe to toe with mechs, but could just as easily go up like a roman candle from a luckly SRM. 

 

I think most of these changes will be good for the brand. I have some more specific ideas but they are less marketing involved. Thoughts?
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Red Pins

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #87 on: October 26, 2012, 02:44:30 AM »

...Here's a sudden thought for you; how will a new rulebook deal with the Core Rulebook system?  They had polls for the last couple of months that ask about content in TROs and a couple others - I wonder if I'll have to buy the box set for basic rules, or a plotline book with rules, or an Era Report.

I can't afford a $70 rulebook, except by buying it from Christmas money!
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Minerva12345

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #88 on: October 26, 2012, 05:11:40 AM »

Have you checked the trend for the word "MechWarrior"?

You might want to.

BattleTech isn't the only name associated with the brand, nor is the table top game the only way to introduce new players to the universe. There's a reason why BattleTech.com and bg.battletech.com are two different websites.

That said, how would you increase brand exposure and overall popularity? How would you bring in new players?

Just curious.

(I'm trying to sound snarky, but I'm honestly interested.)

Actually I did look for that but I took it as granted that everyone would intuitively understand that Mechwarrior word is firmly related to computer game news while battletech is related to tabletop and setting. However, see how BattleTech word is languishing while Mechwarrior is upticking with the news about computer game(s). Thus Battletech as a tabletop setting has little brand value while mechwarrior as computer game has plenty of traction.

Trends point that computer game is not associated with tabletop or setting and players with computer game interest do not have interest towards tabletop and setting. There is obviously no serious crossmarketing/promotion and whatever there is it surely does not work. MWO and BattleTech.com do not appear to direct new people to tabletop at this moment.

Will there be flood when MWO actually starts? The answer is yes (look the spike how computer game made tremendous kick in battletech when announced) but it will be very short turnover (no computer game and collapse of interest towards tabletop). However, if MWO is running it should produce a nice boost of people who at least look at the tabletop, possibly even buying something. If spike holds true there should be doubling in exposure rates. Not sales but there should be remarkable rise in daily posts in web sites.

How successful MWO will be? The answer is that it goes head to head with Hawken. Both are Mech games but are also different in that MWO is slow tempo and Hawken is fast tempo. Will market hold both? The answer is that this is a niche and in my personal preference Hawken has upper hand.

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Generally you need to market heavily (that means advertising) to get news that increase interest. That requires money which computer game people have. If you do not have money you need to sell the product by being in trade fairs and conventions or having large pool of people who promote it. Another way that I'd like to see (and which was very hot in gaming) is ladder.

1) For me the CGL seems to go the "compulsory" trade fairs which is acceptable but going to all local conventions just for cheap karma points should be norm.

2) Commando activity is one of those things that looks good on paper but I have not seen anything showing its effectiveness. I believe that this is the great untapped resource which can get results at relatively short time interval.

3) I'd also like a ladder but that requires dedicated person in CGL and it would fit best to organised group activity (see Germany in late 1990's for ideas). Perhaps using old MFNA as a template. Gaming people are competitive and it could be similar way to start gaming for real like in 1970's.

4) Fiction is surprisingly easy way to sell and promote. Kindle is obviously easiest way to snare computer  gamers and impulse buyers. You buy nowadays books at 1 USD which is good threshold for impulse buyers. My quick glance was 2.99 USD for "BattleTech: Hector" (at least for me) which is ridiculously high price for something written by nobody. Reasonable pricing should be the key.

5) General amateurism in FanPro/CGL has hurt sales and will hurt sales in long run. My friend said that CGL is a hobby pretending to be a company and it is true. Lots of small irritants could be fixed by simply stepping up the game and looking hard at internal functions of company.

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Then there is the product. In my view the "in depth setting" isn't that important to newcomers but rules very obviously are (so they want to try it again). Thus any fixes to product must take a long hard look at the rules themselves to make it match modern tastes (more figurines in field yet faster game play). Setting up game must be very fast too (printable play aids and unit sheets) and preferably available in a single intro box. Game setting itself is something that hobbyists like to argue about and it should be interesting (have hooks that catch your imagination) and matching people's current tastes.

Notice that new product does not automatically mean it is sold. Current crop of players may try it but tabletop company must rely on word of mouth ("I really like the new/better/improved/fast rules") to get others try it compared to "big setting changes" ("You know Republic of something created by nobody because designated hero was actually hated by every single fan has actually changed to something else no one outside game itself cares") which interest only the existing buyers. The new setting might be created and promoted as a way to lure retired battletech players back (and I doubt it is actually very effective in it). However, it isn't effective way to get more people from general pool of existing tabletop/computer players to try it. They do not care about the setting but they do care if it a fun game to try.

The setting changes themselves should reflect modern tastes and social norms. There is a lot to work on. The current writing is very pedestrian and very different in style to space opera roots of BattleTech. However, whatever you do with factions it is important to understand that you need very simple but strong basic description that sets each faction clearly different from each other. Vague descriptions (this plagued individual Clans when they were introduced) clearly hurt setting in the long run.

Finally, is timeline/plot important? In longer view the answer is that it is far less important than I originally imagined. The settings where timeline works (Pendragon) work because it is openly stated and we know where we go. Players are small cogs in bigger wheels and things do go where they will go. The settings where timeline doesn't work (World of Darkness, BattleTech) the changes are inadequately grounded (and thus seem to come out of nowhere) and there is tendency towards "gimmicks" to create momentary shock. They are uniformly described as "stupid pills" and rise from two reasons: poor game developer (who is responsible for line and has done poor work) and amateurish writing (bad writers who work for pittance who above mentioned game developer cannot keep in line).

In my view the products themselves must always be self-contained. The idea that product A has some information that may or may not be true unless you reference it from product B that you may or may not have bought is tremendously frustrating because product is ultimately not complete. Furthermore those products are gaming hooks and should have additional support to gaming either through ideas or direct gaming rules support.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 06:11:26 AM by Minerva12345 »
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JPArbiter

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Re: Time Jump
« Reply #89 on: October 26, 2012, 01:36:52 PM »

I would like to point out battletech.com DOES direct to the tabletop game and shares tabletop news
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BattleTech products aren't Pokemon Cards. You don't have to catch, or collect them all.

WHAT NO ONE EVER TOLD ME THAT!

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