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Author Topic: Consequences of Klondike  (Read 21609 times)

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lrose

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Re: Consequences of Klondike
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2010, 07:15:28 AM »

The Uprising was definitely a risky proposition but I think you're underestimating the resolve of the Periphery or the type of game they playing. I tend to view the Periphery Uprising as the opening stages of a possible war of independence for the Periphery realms. It makes sense that the Periphery governments wouldn't openly rebel. Their leaders would want to gauge the SLDF's/Star League's response (because they're two different things) before committing themselves to a specific course of action and of course to bloody the nose of the SLDF a bit with minimized risk.

Now assuming for a second the Coup did not occur it's very possible that another "Sparks of Santiago," engineered or otherwise was in the works. All it takes is a minor screw up and the whole Periphery goes up in flames, or at least a good portion of it. And I don't believe the rebels would have "gone to ground" quietly. I just think the periphery would suffer another wave of terrorist attacks while they regrouped their physical strength. Remember, the only reason why the SLDF was even remotely successful the first time around is because Amaris sold the TFA out. Which on a side note, doubly helped the Star League because the SAS's methods were becoming so brutal they would have likely been the spark responsible for setting the whole Concordat ablaze.   

As a Periphery player I understand the resolved of the Periphery states when it comes to their freedom.  However I think that when the Periphery states launched the Uprisings they committed everything they had- there were no more reserves waiting for the right opportunity.  I'm old school when it comes to Battletech and I tend to prefer the older products, even with their errors, over the revised history.  (Side note: I'm all for correcting actual errors with dates and continuity, I hate the revisionist trend that some of the current products have of revising history to be more in line with the current writers biases.)  Periphery 1e strongly implies that during the SL era, the TC had almost no standing military - almost certainly no mech regiments, just local militias.  By the same token I can argue that the MAF was composed of the 1st & 2nd Canopian Light Horse and a few supporting units.  It was only the RWR which had anything resembling a regular standing army, and that was because the Amaris family was nominally loyal to the SL.  So I just find it very unlikely that the Periphery governments would be able to provide any support to continue the fighting much past 2767-2768.  They had their opportunity, it was a big risk, they took and in the end, they did the best they could but it wasn't enough. 

Also there is no need for a "Sparks of Santiago" it had already occurred during the incidents on New Vandenberg- most of the periphery was already in revolt by 2766.  The fact that that the Hyades Cluster appears to have stayed out of the fighting seems to be more the exception then the rule and can probably be attributed to the Calderon's desire to protect the cluster from fighting (see the Reunification War when Marantha Calderon surrendered rather then allow the SLDF to invade the worlds of the cluster). 


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Personally I think you're looking at this too linearly, but that's just my opinion. By 2767 the rebels weren't better armed than their Reunification War ancestors and they managed to bloody the League for over a decade. The problem, or rather the strength of the rebels here is that they have the tacit approval of their governments. The SLDF has to be careful in rooting them out, as opposed to conducting the same type of total war campaign it did during the RW - that's playing with super dangerous fire. So the rebels won't be fighting pitched standard battles, they'll just go back to another round of terrorism while they rebuild or setup the next "phase" of the rebellion. I don't think they'd simply stop. I think this was just the beginning.

I think the situation was somewhat different in 2766 then it was during the RW.  The biggest difference was the size of the attackers- during the RW I don't think the SLDF had enough forces to invade the TC across a broad front, in fact the early years of the war were a series of invasions, one after another, rarely simultaneous attacks against multiple worlds.  During the Uprisings, the SLDF could easily invade 20 or 30 worlds without breaking a sweat.  So the war could be fought against a broad front and would end much sooner.  Also I don't see why the SL would be concerned about the periphery governments.  Quite truthfully, from the First Lords perspective, if the Periphery governments could be tied to the Uprisings, then they are committing acts of treason and should be handled approriately (i.e. executed).  That wouldn't stop the rebels, they would just go back to the same terror tactics they used prior to the Uprisings, but they would lack the strength to be challenge the entire SLDF.  The only thing that I could see preventing a total war campaign in the Periphery is General Kerensky, who seemed to be concerned with preserving the SL and does not seem prone to using the same scorched earth tactics that Furlough used during the RW.

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You also have to wonder if the Great Houses would support a war to reclaim the Periphery...

I mean by 2767 the House leaders were already teetering on the edge of washing their hands of the Star League altogether. In their eyes the League had served its purpose, now it was beginning to become troublesome. The House Lords were also more or less done raping the periphery, so you have to wonder if another possible Reunification War was on the horizon would that have been the straw that broke the Star League's back and not the Coup?

I mean you know Richard II, who was incredibly unpopular with the High Council would have pitched a fit if the periphery realms ceded from the League and would demand its reconquest. The House Lords, who really don't give a damn would just wait for poor Richard to pull some illegal nonsense so they could withdrawal their support from any military endeavor, or just drag their knuckles getting anything done (why destroy the military gains you've just spent a decade rebuilding for a League you USE, but not really believe in?) all while the SLDF bleeds to death for lack of support. At that point the SLDF ceases to be as scary as it once was and the House leaders simply dissolve their involvement in the Star League since it no longer works for them, nor does it unite all the disparate peoples of the Inner Sphere under one flag, blah, blah, blah and so on, just fast forward to 2781. Richard II is likely to be deposed or forcibly removed at some point because I can almost guarantee he's going to have a mental breakdown worse than Johnathan's. You'll probably end up with Kerensky as Regent until Cameron's daughter is old enough to take the Hegemony throne.


That seems very likely- I could see the IS houses "supporting" a war to reclaim the Periphery as a way to weaken the SLDF before they tried to launch their own coup to become First Lord.



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I would remove Ferro-Fibrous Armor and maybe CASE from that list. Since Ferror-Fibrous armor is an external application that could probably be refitted without too much trouble. For gaming purposes we use internal crits, but in reality it would just be a question of recognizing the bulk difference to determine weight and volume before application. As for CASE, I know it's a two part system (the actual ammunition box/escape hatch and the software) and that for some BattleMech models, retro-fitting CASE could be accomplished rather easily while it's waiting for a new skin of Ferro-Fibrous armor. However, I would council restraint when using CASE (if using it at all) because of the structural work involved in any installation more difficult than the Enforcer's AC/10 setup. You know, "load a clip in the rear and you're finished" kind of setup.  ;)

I would say the complexity of armor replacement depends on how the armor is mounted. If it is designed to be modular (like say the real life Merkava Tank) it may be fairly easy.  It is part of the structure (like say a cast tank turret) it would be far more complex to replace- the best you could do is supplement it with additional plating welded to the outside.
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Rainbow 6

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Re: Consequences of Klondike
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2010, 01:51:44 PM »

So, and yes i am comming into this discussion late, it seems to me that the concensus here is that the House armies should in 2785 be fielding equipment that has been re-fitted to the TRO3050 level and, maybe, building the same?

Maybe we should reflect that with TA:2785? For example the Shadow Hawk factory in our universe should at this point in time be building something similar to the -5M of TRO3050 rather than the -2H and as the succession war drags on we can take production back to that level?

I would argue that there is a precident already set for this by the Trebuchet which had the -3C model in production when the succession war starts but by the end of the 1st war the 'dumbed down' -5N was the standard production model. (Source TRO3050U)
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lrose

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Re: Consequences of Klondike
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2010, 02:50:11 PM »

So, and yes i am comming into this discussion late, it seems to me that the concensus here is that the House armies should in 2785 be fielding equipment that has been re-fitted to the TRO3050 level and, maybe, building the same?

Maybe we should reflect that with TA:2785? For example the Shadow Hawk factory in our universe should at this point in time be building something similar to the -5M of TRO3050 rather than the -2H and as the succession war drags on we can take production back to that level?

I would argue that there is a precident already set for this by the Trebuchet which had the -3C model in production when the succession war starts but by the end of the 1st war the 'dumbed down' -5N was the standard production model. (Source TRO3050U)

I would suggest leaving out specific model types - first we don't necessary have the models worked out for the new tech versions and they are not necessarily (and probably should not be) exact copies of the TR3050 designs.  Also I don't think every factory would be upgraded to build new tech models.  If we just leave production as Shadow Hawk, we have more flexibility in the future when we do need to specify model types.
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Knightmare

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Re: Consequences of Klondike
« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2010, 03:13:43 PM »

I couldn't agree more with Irose. Keep it vague. Vagueness offers far more fictional flexibility.  :D
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Rainbow 6

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Re: Consequences of Klondike
« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2010, 03:22:02 PM »

That makes sense i guess.
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Takiro

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Re: Consequences of Klondike
« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2010, 10:44:09 PM »

Have to agree with the vagueness.  ;)
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Rainbow 6

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Re: Consequences of Klondike
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2010, 06:59:44 AM »

Fair enough, i can be very vague when needed  ;)

Just a thought i had whilst out shopping this morning, but as of 2785, and using the Shadow Hawk as the example again could we see something like this:-

Federated Suns - Shadow Hawk SHD-2Hd - Upgrade of the -2H for the AFFS with 2 or 3 pieces of high tech equipment along the lines of the later -2D.
Draconis Combine - Shadow Hawk SHD-2Hk - As above for the DCMS which again later in the succession wars will be downgraded to the -2K.
Free Worlds League - Shadow Hawk SHD-3M or -4M - Production varient for the FWLM's best units with 4 or 5 pieces of high tech which as the wars drag on will revert back to standard -2H production.

As you've said we can just say Shadow Hawk in TA:2785 and flesh them out later.
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