Takiro
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Gabriel and its impact
« on: March 29, 2009, 08:50:59 PM » Quote
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Hey gang, more information on this facility apparently built by Kerensky and the SLDF is included in the latest book. Not sure if it will have any impact on our Succession War but here are some details of Gabriel and the Odessa star system where it is located.
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… Odessa is a system of four worlds; the primary world of habitation is the third—Odessa III. Heavily scarred by the First Succession War, the planet has slowly fought its way back and is considered an
important world in the Alliance’s agricultural chain, as well as the homeworld of the popular Odessan raxx …
… fourth world, Odessa IV, is a gas giant on the extreme edge of the system. An extensive debris and asteroid field litters the broad space between the orbits of III and IV; astronomers have long theorized that two larger bodies had collided during the system’s formation. As a result, IV has accumulated hundreds of moonlets and other small orbital bodies; while its official moon count is fourteen, it was calculated at one time that there were in excess of 219 bodies of various sizes in some type of orbit around the planet …
… little record of exploration to Odessa IV due to unpredictable lunar bodies, high debris count, and remote location …
… Fisk family has had control of the system for nearly four hundred years in service to the Lyran Commonwealth. The First Succession War nearly killed the planet; a determined core of survivors remained. I believe it was at this time that ComStar must have taken possession of the fourth planet; the First War would have completely obscured any records of pirate point visits or other unusual traffic amid the chaos so far from the primary. On top of that, ComStar was replacing local information with inflated records of gravity anomalies and other astronomical data. Make no mistake, the info swap only needed slight tweaking, as current studies of the system still show that data to be accurate …
… no true Word presence on Odessa; much of their touch came through shell corporations in the agricultural and heavy machinery fields. I found evidence in Fisk’s personal datafi les of constant
contacts with the heads of these corporations, including kickbacks and preferred contract arrangements. It looks as if these Blakist shell companies actually ruled Odessa through the Count, whose greed was
well known among the upper echelon of planetary society …
… similar setups throughout Odessan history; we’ve found no evidence of Word or overt ComStar involvement aside from the fortified HPG station in New Bealton. With no true challenge to the
family’s authority, it seems that ComStar had a solid grip on the planetary government that can date back to the rebuilding efforts after the First Succession War …
Also if you didn't see the special project over at Camo Specs online take a look for a nice visual.
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Re: Gabriel and its impact
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2009, 08:58:09 PM » Quote
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have the Terrans keep it a secret. plus all those warships can now be put into the Terran Ghost fleet. Plust the 30-40 Comstar ships that comstar wont have in BTSD. plus i count 6 naga, 11 McKenna, Newgrange plus several i cant remember now oh and dont forget the 14 warships that WOB scrapped to help the FWL out.
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Jennifer Daniels
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Re: Gabriel and its impact
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2009, 09:13:53 PM » Quote
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Well it is a nice midway point base on the highway to the Rim Protectorates.
Most of the ships there would have been drafted into the TRN as would likely all the other ships the Wobblers restored before and during the Jihad so there isn't much military equipment there that the TR needs. Still some hardware there might be of use to restore or maintain the TR yards.
Other than that the Lyrans are desperate for a yard to maintain and repair damaged warships and relive some pressure from Alarion. Selling info on the facility to the Lyrans for stuff the TR needs might be an idea, although selling a military yard would put a bit of strain on the Terran neutrality policy. Still being located much closer to the Combine border than remote Alarion it would give the LCN much better abilities to fight the Combine - or the Republic...
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Re: Gabriel and its impact
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2009, 09:15:27 PM » Quote
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Quote from: wolfcannon
...all those warships can now be put into the Terran Ghost fleet. Plus the 30-40 Comstar ships that comstar wont have in BTSD. plus i count 6 naga, 11 McKenna, Newgrange plus several i cant remember now oh and dont forget the 14 warships that WOB scrapped to help the FWL out...
Most, if not all, of that should be a part of the TRN by now.
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Re: Gabriel and its impact
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2009, 09:28:50 PM » Quote
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keep it a secret. heres a list of all known Comstar and WOB ships of SL design.
Code:
Blake's Sword BB McKenna-class
Rays of Enlightenment BC Black Lion-class
Blake Ascendant BC Black Lion-class
Blake's Strength BC Black Lion-class
Invisible Truth BC Cameron-class
Electra BC Cameron-class (comstar scrapped)
Vision of Truth BC Potemkin-class
Blake's Vengeance CA Sovetskii-Soyuz-class
Harmonious Thought CA Sovetskii-Soyuz-class
Immortal Spirit CA Aegis-class
Avenging Sword CA Aegis-class
Righteous Fury CA Aegis-class
Swift Justice CA Aegis-class
Guarded Knowledge DD Lola III-class
Leander DD Lola III-class
Divine Wisdom DD Lola III-class
Holy Martyrdom DD Lola III-class
Strength Through Adversity DD Lola III-class
Blake's Vision DD Lola III-class
Ranger DD Lola III-class
Light of Hope DD Baron-class
Light of Faith DD Baron-class
Unknown DD Baron-class
Hidden Meaning DD Essex-class
Divine Forgiveness DD Essex-class
Deliverance DD Essex-class
Righteous Honor DD Essex-class
Hammer Strike DD Essex-class
Deathblow DD Essex-class
Brandenburg Crusader DD Essex-class
Defender of Versailles DD Essex-class
Starlight DD Essex-class
Emerald DD Essex-class
Unknown DD Naga-class
Unknown DD Naga-class
Unknown DD Naga-class
Unknown DD Naga-class
Red Angel FF Riga-class
Cleansing Fire FF Congress-class
Holling's York FF Congress-class
Enlightened Path FF Volga-class
Alacrity CR Vincent MK.39-class
Determination CR Vincent MK.39-class
Resillience CR Vincent MK.39-class
Blake's Redemption CR Vincent Mk.39-class
Sheridan CR Bonaventure-class
Sword of Promise Unknown
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Jennifer Daniels
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Re: Gabriel and its impact
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2009, 10:40:19 PM » Quote
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The Blake's Sword have been identified as a Clan Wolverine ship so it would not be available to the TRN.
There are many reasons arguing for handing over Gabriel to the Lyrans.
1 The secret is likely to hard to contain, there are probably hundreds if not thousands who know about it by now and that doesn't even include the former SLDF troops.
2 It is of limited or no use to the TR anymore. A nice gas station along the Rim convoy route but nothing more, any ships there will have ended up either in the TRN or as spare parts long ago.
3 Expanding Gabriel into something that is useful would be hard to conceal and...
4 ...it would be very dangerous for the TR. A major secret Terran base in the middle of the LC? Just what would happen once the LIC finds out about it?
5 It would greatly aid the LCN in it's operations against the common Combine enemy.
6 The TR could make quite a profit from selling something that has no real value to it and which might otherwise be lost anyway.
There are a few points against as well.
1 The alreaddy formidable LCN will grow even more powerful and be better able to project power towards the TR area, a potential future threat.
2 Selling a full sized military maintanence yard to the Lyrans will look rather questionable in regards to the TR neutrality policy. It will be more difficult to continue to refuse the CC requests for maintanence work for their Defenders when you sell entire yards to the Steiners, as well as what the FS might ask for in compensation.
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Re: Gabriel and its impact
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2009, 01:58:16 AM » Quote
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Thanks for all the comments guys, keep them coming. I could use the input.
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Re: Gabriel and its impact
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2009, 02:27:06 AM » Quote
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then by your reckoning CJvR Gabriel should have already been discovered. yet it was keep a complete secret until uncle Chandy found out. so from 2785, since i dont know when it was builtit, till 3076 it remained undiscovered by anyone except Comstar. so i dont see your point. ok on the McKenna but what about the 11 that are parked in the sol system??? keep it out of the lyrans hands and use it to rebuild the TRN fleet. Obviously there are jump paths that are unditectable to Gabriel plus it looks to be a fairly large station that one could possible add a few mech production lines to also have to rebuild the TRAF without the great houses finding out till they invade that is. what was the SL leave in the TR's hand. seriously the lyrans would love to have this station but who really needs it? The TR. not to mention you have Luyten and the other spaceyard that are SL plus Columbus station. Columbus would be better as its out of the way and its only a research station for monitoring the former RWR and Lyrans but that info can be erased and any advanced tech can be removed hehe.
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Jennifer Daniels
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Re: Gabriel and its impact
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2009, 03:20:36 AM » Quote
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Per TRO3057 Revised page 182;
- Gabriel, was constructed after Kerensky's conquest of the Rim Worlds (2768) and prior to the start of the Hegemony Campaign (2772). That is a window of just under four years. This is confirmed in the first sentence of paragraph 3. "the complex apparently built in secrecy between 2769 and 2772"
- The yards themselves are referred to as "the remains of a complex of space stations" which were "apparently stripped in secrecy during the mobilization leading up to the Exodus". This us two things. One, the site is not currently operational not in the least. While there is clearly stuff left major repairs would have to be made. Two, the site whatever the SLDF called it was extremely sensitive and unknown to most. Presumably the Lyrans didn't have a clue and it is something I will leave to you to debate if the Terrans did. If so to what extent?
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"It is better to be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt."
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Re: Gabriel and its impact
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2009, 04:18:52 AM » Quote
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*pondering* wow im actually making a good point? *smacks head* *waits for the world to end*
ok now that im over that hehe.
well Tak i would say the site was known to all the admirals and a few generals. so Sinclair may/may not have been told by Kerensky. now since the yards and facilities are still intact and the yards too, to get them operational heck use the multiple yards that are floating derelict in the hegemony. or use the two really damaged newgranges to scrap and use their parts to repair and return the station and facilities to full capacity, keep the other Newgrange around terra to keep repairing the fleet. or is their 4 in the innersphere? and dont forget this point of the 155 "destroyed" newgranges how many are slavagable?
how many "destroyed" warships were actually just abandoned and left derelict? quite a few so far. is this going to take years for the Republic to restore, yes. will it be worth it, hell yes.
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Re: Gabriel and its impact
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2009, 06:23:49 AM » Quote
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Quote from: wolfcannon
then by your reckoning CJvR Gabriel should have already been discovered.
No it should never have been lost in the first place.
Quote from: wolfcannon
what about the 11 that are parked in the sol system???
By some strange coincidence there are 11 Big Macs listed on the TRN OoB in active service or under recovery.
Quote from: wolfcannon
keep it out of the lyrans hands and use it to rebuild the TRN fleet.
Well if there was such a need it would be over when the last derelict left the yard, it was never a production yard.
Quote from: wolfcannon
Obviously there are jump paths that are unditectable to Gabriel plus it looks to be a fairly large station that one could possible add a few mech production lines to also have to rebuild the TRAF without the great houses finding out till they invade that is.
Just how much activity do you think you can have at Gabriel before someone notices? The TR is not ComStar, it cant be as closed and isolated as C*. And again what would the Lyran reaction to a major military base in their rear areas be? How would the US have reacted to finding a Soviet military base in Kentucky?
Quote from: wolfcannon
seriously the lyrans would love to have this station but who really needs it?
The Lyrans, the TR intrests in Gabriel will be over once any salvageable ships are out of there.
Quote from: Takiro
"apparently stripped in secrecy during the mobilization leading up to the Exodus".
Well that depends on how much stripping the SLDF did. With the TR forming and a more solid faction of the SLDF opposing the Exodus Kerenskii would not be able to loot the TH and his bases quite as extensively as in OBT. Leaving at least some parts of Gabriel operational to restore the crippled ships there could probably not be avoided.
Quote from: Takiro
Two, the site whatever the SLDF called it was extremely sensitive and unknown to most.
Except the SLDF, and a significant portion of the SLDF remained with the TR. Also to have been any use Gabriel would have had to have been a major hub for at least the navy that alone would leave thousands of spacers knowing the rough location and hundreds of navigators and bridge crew knowing the exact location without even mentioning the base crew itself and any army units rotated through there.
Quote from: Takiro
If so to what extent?
To the extent of the SLDF itself.
I will leave out any major rants about the improbability of building and operating a major base without the locals noticing and settle for a short one... The bribe must have been a large one!
My view on Gabriel is that the TR knew and that it is not unlikely that the SLDF left some part of the yards working to keep the internal peace, or the TRN could have sent a Newgrange there. The Ships of Gabriel is included in the 2785 TRN OoB either as fixers up or as spareparts. As soon as the last derelict is restored or scrapped Gabriel is of no use to the TR anymore. It could be mothballed for future use but offering it to the Lyrans would also be rather tempting, a good solid support against the common Combine enemy and a shot at squeezing maximum benefit from the base.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 06:35:04 AM by CJvR »
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