OBT Forum
General BattleTech => Universal News & Reports => Shattered Dawn => Alternate Universe => Inner Sphere => Topic started by: Rainbow 6 on December 09, 2009, 11:55:56 AM
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Takiro - TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « on: September 13, 2009, 01:23:46 AM »
Okay gang the next phase of Threat Assessments 2785 is to detail the infantry of this time period. While the Nighthawk is out there and all sorts of specialized infantry exist what does the typical infantryman look like? What is he outfitted with? Weapons? Armor? Survival and Communication Gear? I'll have more details later I'm trying to do my research as I go here.
Hessian Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #1 on: September 14, 2009, 05:21:19 PM »
I'd assume an infantryman's equipment consists of:
- a uniform appropriate for the climate and the surroundings it is used in
- sturdy boots
- a helmet
- a gas mask(perhaps even a protective suit)
- protective eyewear in the form of googles
- probably some kind of body armor(aka bullet resistant kevlar vests)
- an entrenching tool
- perhaps a small tent, but at least a sleeping bag
- basic medical supplies
- a few days food and water rations, the water perhaps as a camelbag
- a personal portable water filter
- basic communications gear(a small radio)
- a compass
- a rucksack to carry the equipment
- a combat knife that doubles as a bayonet
- the main weapon is probably some kind of assault rifle or perhaps a laser rifle
That's all I can think of atm but there might be more
Ciao
Hessian
Takiro Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #2 on: September 14, 2009, 08:01:24 PM »
Thanks Hessian that is a good start indeed. I'm currently viewing all angles of the SL infantry trooper showed in SLSB. Hopefully I'll have some analysis soon.
Ice Hellion Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #3 on: September 15, 2009, 07:49:33 AM »
I think you have some info in TRO 3026.
I would not expect the "common" Terran Republic infantry to be less equipped than the SLDF one.
For special units with Nighthawk suits and so on, the problem is else.
If you have access to TRO 3026, it should give you information on field kits (survival, communication and medical) plus the standard SLDF weapon.
lrose Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #4 on: September 15, 2009, 11:18:43 AM »[/i][/u]
As Ice said the original TR3026 has a lot of good info-
equipment could include:
Ablative/Flak Vest or Suit
Night vision scope
Night Vision googles
Sniper scope
environmental suit and helmet (for hostile environment combat ops)
Field Kit- Pack, sleeping bag, heating tabs for good, utensils, matches/lighter, rope, survival knife, lantern, tent, stove, blankets, compass, etc.
Medical Kit
Flares
Smoke Grenades
Signal Mirror
Entrenching tool
webbing (for carrying all this gear)
Binoculars
motion/infrared sensors (more for scouts)
Gas Mask/Breathing units
Personal communicator
Rainbow 6 Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #5 on: September 15, 2009, 05:40:45 PM »
I seem to remember the original housebooks had some information on infantry kit.
Takiro Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #6 on: September 15, 2009, 07:58:12 PM »
I was going through information in the old Sourcebooks today as well as what I had written for the Terran Republic in their FM. Not sure if I did anything for standard merc infantry?
Infantry Uniform (SLSB – 2780s – page 111)
Troopers in the Regular Army wore uniforms that seemed too light and thin for the battlefield. Gloves and standard-issue boots covered the cuffs of olive drab pants and shirt. A legless step-through jacket in standard camouflage fit over the shirt. The trooper's rank patch and unit insignia appeared on the shoulders of the jacket. A trooper wore a small backpack that carried a powerful battery for the soldier's laser weapon and the trooper's personal items. When the unit was traveling, the soldier's sleeping bag was tied to the bottom of the pack.
The most obvious difference between the trooper of the Regular Army and the foot solder of today is the full helmet worn in the SLDF. From the few surviving specimens and from research, engineers have leaned that the helmet was a marvel of electronics and strength. The design provided an excellent field of vision for the soldier. The three panes of the visor were made of a secret polarizing, clear polymer that provided excellent protection against bullets and that turned to silver tone the instant it was hit with the light of a laser. Through voice commands to the internal computer, the trooper could switch to several modes of vision. Infrared allowed the soldier to see hidden heat sources, and EE (Electronic Emission) vision showed him the source of manmade electronics. The trooper also had sighting screens that projected on the visor of the helmet to help him aim.
Duty Uniforms (FM TR – 2785 – page 63)
The everyday clothes of the Terran soldier have changed very little from the Star League’s standard field uniform. Just like dress uniforms they are divided into two different types that emphasize what branch of service the soldier is a part of rather than the individual’s rank.
Troopers in the Terran Army still sport the olive drab pants and shirt of the Star League Regular Army. This light weight clothing is environmentally friendly and surprisingly durable thanks to advanced fabrics that seemingly adjust to various climates. Fitting over the olive drab shirt is a legless step-through jacket in standard camouflage. Appearing on the shoulders of this jacket is the soldiers rank. The Stars of the Republic appear on the left upper arm while the unit insignia appears on the right. Completing the look with standard issue gloves and boots is the helmet worn by the TRAS ground trooper. Many still retain the high tech Star League era defenses, visual enhancements, and integral communications that make these helmets far superior to their InnerSphere counterparts.
Infantry (HLSB – 3025 – page 74)
Capellan infantry are denoted by their dark green uniforms reinforced by plasteel mesh arm and leg coverings. Insignia worn at the belt and along should and arms is typically a subdued green. Green shoulder packs with white shoulder straps are common, as are spare energy-weapon packs worn over the bottom half of the backpack. Each infantryman carries personal rations for two days, with additional stores maintained at the company level.
In addition, each infantryman wears a standard protective helmet of plasteel reinforced by synthetic ceramic fibers, which provides good protection against enemy laser fire. Black, woven belts have pouches for carrying small arms ammunition, explosive clips, steel canteens, and mess kits.
In Warrior House regiments, infantrymen also carry a personal katana blade (with which they are highly proficient), supported on a black sling worn over the right shoulder and attached to the waist belt. Officers likewise sport numerous dirks and throwing blades for use at close quarters. Warrior House troops are also denoted by dark green “flak jacketsâ€, on which additional ordinance is typically carried.
Rank insignia for all infantry is typically sewn on the lower arms and collar lapels, with name patches appearing on the right upper torso.
Conventional Troops (HMSB – 3025 – page 86)
Artillery, armored vehicle crew, and infantry uniforms differ less between provinces than those of other branches of the military services. All such troops, regard-less of provincial affiliation, wear a full-length coverall covered by a combat vest, helmet, gloves, and boots. The outfit’s outer garments offer varying degrees of protection against enemy fire; the League Regular and Regulan troops wear full torso armor, while Marik, Andurien, and Oriente forces favor a hybrid that provides a triple layer of titanium around the shoulders and chest, combined with a much thinner layer of Kevlar around the lower torso and abdomen (substantially lowering the vest’s total weight and increasing the wearer’s mobility). The League-issue boots are made of leather or tharn-hide with thick rubber soles and extend almost to the knee; many models contain an ankle sheath for a dagger or throwing knife.
Although lightweight and providing less protection than the helmets worn by Mechwarriors, the conventional helmet is still loaded with useful features. The chinstrap and side-panels contain short-range communication transmission and reception equipment, while the glare-reflective goggles contain infrared sights. The center stripe of the helmet is color-coded with the provincial affiliation of the unit: magenta for League units, deep purple for the Marik Commonwealth, yellow for Oriente, green for Andurien, and crimson for Regulus.
lrose Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #7 on: September 15, 2009, 08:32:10 PM »
I expect that there would be a lot a variation between factions- I see the DC providing minimal equipment considering many of it's infantry to be canon fodder, while the FS with a higher regard for the soldiers might provide better armor/protection, while the LC having such wealth might have the best equipped infantry.
You would probably also see variations based on tactics and roles- for example I think it in the TC you are more likely to find infantry with demolitions and such given the Concordat's use of irregular warfare tactics, while the DC and CC infantry may have a lot of anti-riot and crowd control equipment given their use to maintain order and control over the civilian populations.
Rainbow 6 Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #8 on: September 15, 2009, 08:37:26 PM »
From the 2 examples CCAF/FWLM its shows the tech availabilty of the 2 states very well.
lrose Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #9 on: September 15, 2009, 09:22:25 PM »
HDSB has a bit on infantry uniforms (p. 131)- most notably that most soldiers wear a brown helmet, but some wear fabric caps and officers have "Comm-Gauntlets" thick steel and leather gloves that not only serve as weapons im jamd to hand combat but have com equipment built into them. There are some good pics of what look to be infantry on pages 82 and 85.
HSSB p. 111 shows a picture of an LCAF infantry soldier. They appear to have a lot of gear. P. 110 gives a description- they wear a combat vest over the uniform which provides protection and storage, as well as being a mounting point for a field pack or laser rifle battery. Also "with its ample supply of velcro strips, hookbars, eyes and straps, just about anything can be secured to the vest". There is a belt for food, water & spare ammo and a holster for their side arm- usually a slug throwing pistol. The helmet is designed to defelct lasers shots and is coated with a shiny ablative material. It also has a thin layer of Plastisteel, integral comm sytems and a passive IR device for night vision. Even with all this equipment it is quite light.
Takiro Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 03:27:36 AM »
This does give a good look for 3025 not 2785 unfortunately. Certain improvements were no doubt lost or phased out but I will be copying the rest of the SB info from the other books to get a complete picture.
Ice Hellion Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 07:23:26 AM »
Maybe we could define what is the role of infantry in each State and consider what equipment they would be given to perform their tasks.
As for the mercenaries, there might be info in Field Manual Mercenary.
lrose Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #12 on: September 16, 2009, 10:11:32 AM »
Quote from: Takiro on September 16, 2009, 03:27:36 AM
This does give a good look for 3025 not 2785 unfortunately. Certain improvements were no doubt lost or phased out but I will be copying the rest of the SB info from the other books to get a complete picture.
But I don't think the Infantry suffered as significant losses in equipment as the other branches. Yes some of it may be less advanced- a 2785 medkit is probably far more effective, but they still carry a medkit in 3025. A 2785 com system may be smaller & lighter, but they still probably have a com system in 3025. They may carry a slug thrower instead of a laser, but they still have some sort of rifle, etc. But it's not like the infantry had power armor and then lost it by 3025 (yes the SLDF had the Nighthawk but I am referring to the IS states here). The main differences between 2785 and 3025 is the performance and weight of the equipment that is carried, not the actual type of equipment that is used.
Takiro Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #13 on: September 16, 2009, 04:24:32 PM »
Yeah I think your right Irose. Power packs for energy weapons would be less efficient. Anything else we are missing?
Conventional Troops (HKSB – 3025 – pdf page 128)
Soldiers in the army’s conventional branches (infantry, armored vehicles, artillery, and so on) wear a rugged, full-length, light tan jump suit. On the chest of the suit is the soldier’s branch pin. Shoulder and elbow padding keep the soldier from hurting himself when he falls or crawls around, or when he carries a heavy weapon on his shoulder.
The conventional hat has a short visor and ear flaps, which may be turned down during cold weather or fierce winds. Artillery personnel have extra insulation in the ear flaps to muffle the sound of Long Tom artillery.
Many infantry units, especially those that use flamers, are issued helmets, gloves, and thick jerkins to protect them from blunt weapons and flamers.
Vehicle personnel also receive jerkins, but there are designed to absorb shocks from bumping around inside a vehicle. In addition, their helmets are designed to prevent injury to the head. Both have cooling elements inside them that help keep the confined crew comfortable.
Because the color of the uniform is important in recognizing the soldier’s branch, conventional soldiers are not issued camouflage uniforms. They must wear their tans while on arctic worlds and jungle worlds.
Infantry (HSSB – 3025 – pdf page 112)
The LCAF infantry wear a standard field uniform, combat vest, and a helmet. The standard field uniform comes in six colors: white, black, Skye green, camouflage-vegetation, camouflage-urban, and the standard grey-green. In addition to helping the soldiers blend into their surroundings, the colors have a symbolic use. Any of the three Royal Guards units in the Triad on Tharkad wear a ceremonial white uniform. Guards at the Honor of Skye are from a Skye Rangers regiment and wear uniforms in the dark emerald green of Skye. In the Duke of Tamar’s palace, the guards are from an Arcturan Guards unit and wear black uniforms.
The infantryman wears a combat vest over his uniform. The vest provides some protection to the wearer’s chest as well as providing pockets for storing various items. The vest’s main function is to provide a simple frame to which large and bulky objects, such as a standard field pack or the battery of a laser rifle, can be attached. With its ample supply of Velcro strips, hookbars, eyes, and straps, just about anything can be secured to the vest. Worn around the waist is a belt with pouches for carrying food, water, and space ammo as well as any other objects the solder needs. The belt also supports a holster for the trooper’s sidearm, which is usually a slug-throwing pistol.
The design of the infantryman’s helmet is effective. It has no flat edges to catch laser beam fire and is covered with a layer of shiny ablative material. An enemy’s laser bolt will usually either ricochet off the helmet or be safely absorbed. Beneath the shiny exterior is a thin layer of plastisteel, a synthetic material of great strength and absorbency. Inside the helmt, there is plenty of room for communication equipment, as well as a passive IR device to provide night-sight for the soldier. For all the protection it provides, the helmet is quite light.
Unit insignias have traditionally been riveted onto the sides of the soldier’s helmet. Recent studies indicate that placing the insignias there compromises the effectiveness of the helmet, and so soldiers have begun placing their unit patches on the sides of their backpack instead. The center panel of the helmets are color-coded to the various units, which constitutes an insignia.
White is for members of the Royal Guards. Blue means the soldier is from either a Lyran Guards or Lyran Regular unit. Green is the color for soldiers attached to a Skye Rangers regiment. Plae grey means the soldier is from an Arcturan Guards unit. Yellow is reserved for infantry units attached to Winfield’s Brigade. Mercenary units usually wear unpainted, dull brown helmets.
lrose Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #14 on: September 16, 2009, 04:30:10 PM »
Quote from: Takiro on September 16, 2009, 04:24:32 PM
Yeah I think your right Irose. Power packs for energy weapons would be less efficient. Anything else we are missing?
Electronics may be less integrated- during the SL era you may have a helmet with coms, IR/Night Vision, Hud Display for electronic compass and map, etc. In 3025 you probably still have all of those items but they may be individual devices.
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Takiro Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #15 on: September 16, 2009, 08:32:08 PM »
Question, did the Bounty Hunter have some advanced infantry hardware in 3025??
Rainbow 6 Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #16 on: September 16, 2009, 09:03:17 PM »
He had the green power armor i believe.
Takiro Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #17 on: September 17, 2009, 01:36:55 AM »
I've really got to look at that Bounty Hunter stuff along with historical availability of PALs and Battlearmor. Here is the final SB entry for infantry outfitting.
Infantry Uniforms (HDSB – 3025 – pdf page 133)
The differences between groups of regiments is most readily seen in the uniforms worn by AFFS infantry.
The standard-issue uniform consists of dark-green shirt and pants covered by a step-through brown padded jerkin with the Federated Sunburst stitched on the lefthand side. Most regiments wear a brown helmet similar to those of Lyran Commonwealth soldiers, though some troopers prefer to wear fabric caps-sometimes because of tradition and sometimes out of pure foolishness. Officers wear what they call Comm-Gauntlets. These are thick steel-and-leather gloves that, besides being wicked weapons in hand-to-hand combat, have communications equipment built into them. This unusual system has given rise to the AFFS expression, “There’s no use swearing at the Captain’s hand,†which refers to the futility of fighting orders from above.
Regional and regimental variations in the basic uniform abound. Syrtis Fusiliers wear greenish-tan shirts and boots, as well as a jerkin that matches the standard-color green pants. The Fusiliers, always a prideful group, consider it cowardly to wear a helmet and so favor green fabric caps instead. As a last bit of regimental individuality, Fusiliers wear their regimental patch instead of the Federated Sunburst on their cap and jerkin.
Crucis Lancers wear a uniform similar to that of the Fusiliers except that their jerkin is tan and green. They have no quarrel with wearing a helmet, though Avalon Hussars, on the other hand, wear standard-issue jerkin, pants, and boots, but with gray jerseys underneath.
To further add to the confusion, the AFFS issues different uniforms for various climates and locales. The colors of these range from white for cold-weather troops to night-black. There are also a variety of camouflage uniforms to match settings such as jungle vegetation, forest, rocks, and urban environments.
I’ve also started to review the FMs and they may have added information.
Ice Hellion Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #18 on: September 17, 2009, 05:27:22 PM »
I guess they should have something more advanced than the infantry combat system of the 2000s but probably not by much.
Hessian Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #19 on: September 17, 2009, 05:29:38 PM »
Quote from: Takiro on September 16, 2009, 08:32:08 PM
Question, did the Bounty Hunter have some advanced infantry hardware in 3025??
According to Interstellar Players p.135 the Bounty Hunter sported a unique suit of body armor since his first re-emergence in 2957.
Greetings
Hessian
Takiro Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #20 on: September 18, 2009, 10:36:19 AM »
Thanks Hessian, forgot where that info was.
Hessian Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #21 on: October 07, 2009, 04:32:36 PM »
A bit info on infantry equipment can also be found on page 140 of Tech Manual.
Of note is that this is the equipment of a signal corps squad not combat infantry....
Ciao
Hessian
P.S: Sorry remembered this bit just now....
Ice Hellion Re: TA 2785: Infantry of the 28th Century « Reply #22 on: October 07, 2009, 08:47:16 PM »
Nice catch.
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Okay gang the next phase of Threat Assessments 2785 is to detail the infantry of this time period. While the Nighthawk is out there and all sorts of specialized infantry exist what does the typical infantryman look like? What is he outfitted with? Weapons? Armor? Survival and Communication Gear? I'll have more details later I'm trying to do my research as I go here.
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I'd assume an infantryman's equipment consists of:
- a uniform appropriate for the climate and the surroundings it is used in
- sturdy boots
- a helmet
- a gas mask(perhaps even a protective suit)
- protective eyewear in the form of googles
- probably some kind of body armor(aka bullet resistant kevlar vests)
- an entrenching tool
- perhaps a small tent, but at least a sleeping bag
- basic medical supplies
- a few days food and water rations, the water perhaps as a camelbag
- a personal portable water filter
- basic communications gear(a small radio)
- a compass
- a rucksack to carry the equipment
- a combat knife that doubles as a bayonet
- the main weapon is probably some kind of assault rifle or perhaps a laser rifle
That's all I can think of atm but there might be more
Ciao
Hessian
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Thanks Hessian that is a good start indeed. I'm currently viewing all angles of the SL infantry trooper showed in SLSB. Hopefully I'll have some analysis soon.
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I think you have some info in TRO 3026.
I would not expect the "common" Terran Republic infantry to be less equipped than the SLDF one.
For special units with Nighthawk suits and so on, the problem is else.
If you have access to TRO 3026, it should give you information on field kits (survival, communication and medical) plus the standard SLDF weapon.
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As Ice said the original TR3026 has a lot of good info-
equipment could include:
Ablative/Flak Vest or Suit
Night vision scope
Night Vision googles
Sniper scope
environmental suit and helmet (for hostile environment combat ops)
Field Kit- Pack, sleeping bag, heating tabs for good, utensils, matches/lighter, rope, survival knife, lantern, tent, stove, blankets, compass, etc.
Medical Kit
Flares
Smoke Grenades
Signal Mirror
Entrenching tool
webbing (for carrying all this gear)
Binoculars
motion/infrared sensors (more for scouts)
Gas Mask/Breathing units
Personal communicator
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I seem to remember the original housebooks had some information on infantry kit.
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I was going through information in the old Sourcebooks today as well as what I had written for the Terran Republic in their FM. Not sure if I did anything for standard merc infantry?
Infantry Uniform (SLSB – 2780s – page 111)
Troopers in the Regular Army wore uniforms that seemed too light and thin for the battlefield. Gloves and standard-issue boots covered the cuffs of olive drab pants and shirt. A legless step-through jacket in standard camouflage fit over the shirt. The trooper's rank patch and unit insignia appeared on the shoulders of the jacket. A trooper wore a small backpack that carried a powerful battery for the soldier's laser weapon and the trooper's personal items. When the unit was traveling, the soldier's sleeping bag was tied to the bottom of the pack.
The most obvious difference between the trooper of the Regular Army and the foot solder of today is the full helmet worn in the SLDF. From the few surviving specimens and from research, engineers have leaned that the helmet was a marvel of electronics and strength. The design provided an excellent field of vision for the soldier. The three panes of the visor were made of a secret polarizing, clear polymer that provided excellent protection against bullets and that turned to silver tone the instant it was hit with the light of a laser. Through voice commands to the internal computer, the trooper could switch to several modes of vision. Infrared allowed the soldier to see hidden heat sources, and EE (Electronic Emission) vision showed him the source of manmade electronics. The trooper also had sighting screens that projected on the visor of the helmet to help him aim.
Duty Uniforms (FM TR – 2785 – page 63)
The everyday clothes of the Terran soldier have changed very little from the Star League’s standard field uniform. Just like dress uniforms they are divided into two different types that emphasize what branch of service the soldier is a part of rather than the individual’s rank.
Troopers in the Terran Army still sport the olive drab pants and shirt of the Star League Regular Army. This light weight clothing is environmentally friendly and surprisingly durable thanks to advanced fabrics that seemingly adjust to various climates. Fitting over the olive drab shirt is a legless step-through jacket in standard camouflage. Appearing on the shoulders of this jacket is the soldiers rank. The Stars of the Republic appear on the left upper arm while the unit insignia appears on the right. Completing the look with standard issue gloves and boots is the helmet worn by the TRAS ground trooper. Many still retain the high tech Star League era defenses, visual enhancements, and integral communications that make these helmets far superior to their InnerSphere counterparts.
Infantry (HLSB – 3025 – page 74)
Capellan infantry are denoted by their dark green uniforms reinforced by plasteel mesh arm and leg coverings. Insignia worn at the belt and along should and arms is typically a subdued green. Green shoulder packs with white shoulder straps are common, as are spare energy-weapon packs worn over the bottom half of the backpack. Each infantryman carries personal rations for two days, with additional stores maintained at the company level.
In addition, each infantryman wears a standard protective helmet of plasteel reinforced by synthetic ceramic fibers, which provides good protection against enemy laser fire. Black, woven belts have pouches for carrying small arms ammunition, explosive clips, steel canteens, and mess kits.
In Warrior House regiments, infantrymen also carry a personal katana blade (with which they are highly proficient), supported on a black sling worn over the right shoulder and attached to the waist belt. Officers likewise sport numerous dirks and throwing blades for use at close quarters. Warrior House troops are also denoted by dark green “flak jacketsâ€, on which additional ordinance is typically carried.
Rank insignia for all infantry is typically sewn on the lower arms and collar lapels, with name patches appearing on the right upper torso.
Conventional Troops (HMSB – 3025 – page 86)
Artillery, armored vehicle crew, and infantry uniforms differ less between provinces than those of other branches of the military services. All such troops, regard-less of provincial affiliation, wear a full-length coverall covered by a combat vest, helmet, gloves, and boots. The outfit’s outer garments offer varying degrees of protection against enemy fire; the League Regular and Regulan troops wear full torso armor, while Marik, Andurien, and Oriente forces favor a hybrid that provides a triple layer of titanium around the shoulders and chest, combined with a much thinner layer of Kevlar around the lower torso and abdomen (substantially lowering the vest’s total weight and increasing the wearer’s mobility). The League-issue boots are made of leather or tharn-hide with thick rubber soles and extend almost to the knee; many models contain an ankle sheath for a dagger or throwing knife.
Although lightweight and providing less protection than the helmets worn by Mechwarriors, the conventional helmet is still loaded with useful features. The chinstrap and side-panels contain short-range communication transmission and reception equipment, while the glare-reflective goggles contain infrared sights. The center stripe of the helmet is color-coded with the provincial affiliation of the unit: magenta for League units, deep purple for the Marik Commonwealth, yellow for Oriente, green for Andurien, and crimson for Regulus.
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I expect that there would be a lot a variation between factions- I see the DC providing minimal equipment considering many of it's infantry to be canon fodder, while the FS with a higher regard for the soldiers might provide better armor/protection, while the LC having such wealth might have the best equipped infantry.
You would probably also see variations based on tactics and roles- for example I think it in the TC you are more likely to find infantry with demolitions and such given the Concordat's use of irregular warfare tactics, while the DC and CC infantry may have a lot of anti-riot and crowd control equipment given their use to maintain order and control over the civilian populations.
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From the 2 examples CCAF/FWLM its shows the tech availabilty of the 2 states very well.
-
HDSB has a bit on infantry uniforms (p. 131)- most notably that most soldiers wear a brown helmet, but some wear fabric caps and officers have "Comm-Gauntlets" thick steel and leather gloves that not only serve as weapons im jamd to hand combat but have com equipment built into them. There are some good pics of what look to be infantry on pages 82 and 85.
HSSB p. 111 shows a picture of an LCAF infantry soldier. They appear to have a lot of gear. P. 110 gives a description- they wear a combat vest over the uniform which provides protection and storage, as well as being a mounting point for a field pack or laser rifle battery. Also "with its ample supply of velcro strips, hookbars, eyes and straps, just about anything can be secured to the vest". There is a belt for food, water & spare ammo and a holster for their side arm- usually a slug throwing pistol. The helmet is designed to defelct lasers shots and is coated with a shiny ablative material. It also has a thin layer of Plastisteel, integral comm sytems and a passive IR device for night vision. Even with all this equipment it is quite light.
-
This does give a good look for 3025 not 2785 unfortunately. Certain improvements were no doubt lost or phased out but I will be copying the rest of the SB info from the other books to get a complete picture.
-
Maybe we could define what is the role of infantry in each State and consider what equipment they would be given to perform their tasks.
As for the mercenaries, there might be info in Field Manual Mercenary.
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Quote from: Takiro on September 16, 2009, 03:27:36 AM
This does give a good look for 3025 not 2785 unfortunately. Certain improvements were no doubt lost or phased out but I will be copying the rest of the SB info from the other books to get a complete picture.
But I don't think the Infantry suffered as significant losses in equipment as the other branches. Yes some of it may be less advanced- a 2785 medkit is probably far more effective, but they still carry a medkit in 3025. A 2785 com system may be smaller & lighter, but they still probably have a com system in 3025. They may carry a slug thrower instead of a laser, but they still have some sort of rifle, etc. But it's not like the infantry had power armor and then lost it by 3025 (yes the SLDF had the Nighthawk but I am referring to the IS states here). The main differences between 2785 and 3025 is the performance and weight of the equipment that is carried, not the actual type of equipment that is used.
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Yeah I think your right Irose. Power packs for energy weapons would be less efficient. Anything else we are missing?
Conventional Troops (HKSB – 3025 – pdf page 128)
Soldiers in the army’s conventional branches (infantry, armored vehicles, artillery, and so on) wear a rugged, full-length, light tan jump suit. On the chest of the suit is the soldier’s branch pin. Shoulder and elbow padding keep the soldier from hurting himself when he falls or crawls around, or when he carries a heavy weapon on his shoulder.
The conventional hat has a short visor and ear flaps, which may be turned down during cold weather or fierce winds. Artillery personnel have extra insulation in the ear flaps to muffle the sound of Long Tom artillery.
Many infantry units, especially those that use flamers, are issued helmets, gloves, and thick jerkins to protect them from blunt weapons and flamers.
Vehicle personnel also receive jerkins, but there are designed to absorb shocks from bumping around inside a vehicle. In addition, their helmets are designed to prevent injury to the head. Both have cooling elements inside them that help keep the confined crew comfortable.
Because the color of the uniform is important in recognizing the soldier’s branch, conventional soldiers are not issued camouflage uniforms. They must wear their tans while on arctic worlds and jungle worlds.
Infantry (HSSB – 3025 – pdf page 112)
The LCAF infantry wear a standard field uniform, combat vest, and a helmet. The standard field uniform comes in six colors: white, black, Skye green, camouflage-vegetation, camouflage-urban, and the standard grey-green. In addition to helping the soldiers blend into their surroundings, the colors have a symbolic use. Any of the three Royal Guards units in the Triad on Tharkad wear a ceremonial white uniform. Guards at the Honor of Skye are from a Skye Rangers regiment and wear uniforms in the dark emerald green of Skye. In the Duke of Tamar’s palace, the guards are from an Arcturan Guards unit and wear black uniforms.
The infantryman wears a combat vest over his uniform. The vest provides some protection to the wearer’s chest as well as providing pockets for storing various items. The vest’s main function is to provide a simple frame to which large and bulky objects, such as a standard field pack or the battery of a laser rifle, can be attached. With its ample supply of Velcro strips, hookbars, eyes, and straps, just about anything can be secured to the vest. Worn around the waist is a belt with pouches for carrying food, water, and space ammo as well as any other objects the solder needs. The belt also supports a holster for the trooper’s sidearm, which is usually a slug-throwing pistol.
The design of the infantryman’s helmet is effective. It has no flat edges to catch laser beam fire and is covered with a layer of shiny ablative material. An enemy’s laser bolt will usually either ricochet off the helmet or be safely absorbed. Beneath the shiny exterior is a thin layer of plastisteel, a synthetic material of great strength and absorbency. Inside the helmt, there is plenty of room for communication equipment, as well as a passive IR device to provide night-sight for the soldier. For all the protection it provides, the helmet is quite light.
Unit insignias have traditionally been riveted onto the sides of the soldier’s helmet. Recent studies indicate that placing the insignias there compromises the effectiveness of the helmet, and so soldiers have begun placing their unit patches on the sides of their backpack instead. The center panel of the helmets are color-coded to the various units, which constitutes an insignia.
White is for members of the Royal Guards. Blue means the soldier is from either a Lyran Guards or Lyran Regular unit. Green is the color for soldiers attached to a Skye Rangers regiment. Plae grey means the soldier is from an Arcturan Guards unit. Yellow is reserved for infantry units attached to Winfield’s Brigade. Mercenary units usually wear unpainted, dull brown helmets.
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Quote from: Takiro on September 16, 2009, 04:24:32 PM
Yeah I think your right Irose. Power packs for energy weapons would be less efficient. Anything else we are missing?
Electronics may be less integrated- during the SL era you may have a helmet with coms, IR/Night Vision, Hud Display for electronic compass and map, etc. In 3025 you probably still have all of those items but they may be individual devices.
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Question, did the Bounty Hunter have some advanced infantry hardware in 3025??
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He had the green power armour i belive.
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I've really got to look at that Bounty Hunter stuff along with historical availability of PALs and Battlearmor. Here is the final SB entry for infantry outfitting.
Infantry Uniforms (HDSB – 3025 – pdf page 133)
The differences between groups of regiments is most readily seen in the uniforms worn by AFFS infantry.
The standard-issue uniform consists of dark-green shirt and pants covered by a step-through brown padded jerkin with the Federated Sunburst stitched on the lefthand side. Most regiments wear a brown helmet similar to those of Lyran Commonwealth soldiers, though some troopers prefer to wear fabric caps-sometimes because of tradition and sometimes out of pure foolishness. Officers wear what they call Comm-Gauntlets. These are thick steel-and-leather gloves that, besides being wicked weapons in hand-to-hand combat, have communications equipment built into them. This unusual system has given rise to the AFFS expression, “There’s no use swearing at the Captain’s hand,†which refers to the futility of fighting orders from above.
Regional and regimental variations in the basic uniform abound. Syrtis Fusiliers wear greenish-tan shirts and boots, as well as a jerkin that matches the standard-color green pants. The Fusiliers, always a prideful group, consider it cowardly to wear a helmet and so favor green fabric caps instead. As a last bit of regimental individuality, Fusiliers wear their regimental patch instead of the Federated Sunburst on their cap and jerkin.
Crucis Lancers wear a uniform similar to that of the Fusiliers except that their jerkin is tan and green. They have no quarrel with wearing a helmet, though Avalon Hussars, on the other hand, wear standard-issue jerkin, pants, and boots, but with gray jerseys underneath.
To further add to the confusion, the AFFS issues different uniforms for various climates and locales. The colors of these range from white for cold-weather troops to night-black. There are also a variety of camouflage uniforms to match settings such as jungle vegetation, forest, rocks, and urban environments.
I’ve also started to review the FMs and they may have added information.
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I guess they should have something more advanced than the infantry combat system of the 2000s but probably not by much.
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Quote from: Takiro on September 16, 2009, 08:32:08 PM
Question, did the Bounty Hunter have some advanced infantry hardware in 3025??
According to Interstellar Players p.135 the Bounty Hunter sported a unique suit of body armor since his first re-emergence in 2957.
Greetings
Hessian
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Thanks Hessian, forgot where that info was.
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A bit info on infantry equipment can also be found on page 140 of Tech Manual.
Of note is that this is the equipment of a signal corps squad not combat infantry....
Ciao
Hessian
P.S: Sorry remembered this bit just now....
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Nice catch.
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Well TRO 3085 has little implication for us here at BTSD except for its Infantry Section which may have been inspired by our own efforts. :P While almost every infantry template given is for the Jihad era this could be the example for us to follow here. More thoughts as I study the new PDF.
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I will have to look at it too.
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To help Takiro, I just opened a new thread about infantry units based on TRO 3085.
So fire at will ;D
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I wanted to get back to this. What did you guys think of the Infantry section from TRO3085? Wanted to use it as a basis for something similar for Threat Assessments. Of course that would only be for the Great Houses we'd have to do something separate for Terran infantry.
I'd like to detail standard line infantry as well as other types. Some norm, some specialized. So suggest away. Love to hear your thoughts. ;)
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I'm sure that there would be AA missile equiped infantry, as the tech level had not yet dropped, I would love to see infantry equiped with (man-pack) mini guns as AA troops and the like, I hope that's not to munch ?.
Dave.
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What about engineers/Stosstrupen units?
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I was thinking of Hostile/Toxic Enviroment troops. Someone adept at working in nuclear/biological/chemical zone.
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Volcano troopers?
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....How did I miss this? I must have been distracted...
I did post something akin to this in the RPG section, but without going into that, for 2785AD I would think that every state out there (with a few exceptions) would have infantry equipment modeled largely on the SLDF:
* In the TH, that's a no-brainer -- SLDF and HAF leftovers (functionally the same thing) should be literally lying around on the ground, with a large admixture of RWR gear recovered and reused by guerrillas.
* I think the Combine infantry would be the closest to 3025, overall, as they are the most conservative of the bunch.
* The Lyran infantry are going to have gear almost the equal of the SLDF/HAF, and in some cases, surpassing it.
* The Leaguers and Suns will be fairly baseline, two or three steps down from the SLDF/HAF, like the Kuritans, but somewhat gaudier and less functional...Remember, there has been c.200 years of 'mostly peace' -- even with police actions, military mindsets tend to ossify rapidly when not in use.
* The Confederation will have the widest variety of forms, ranging from small units (battalion- to regiment-sized) at the SLDF/HAF levels, to hordes of division-sized clouds of raw infantry armed with a STEN Gun-equivalent...they might even have hand grenades and "uniforms" of headbands or t-shirts if they are seen as "loyal".
* Outside of the RWR and the Taurians, I doubt that the Periphery states will spend that much on their infantry -- they'll have a lot of it, certainly, but the OA doesn't like standing armies to begin with, and the Canopians are far more concerned with spending thin budgets (tourism has GOT to have fallen off with all the fighting) on battlemechs.
* The Taurians will be in transition, replacing SLDF gear with native equipment as fast as they can, probably doing division-scale straight-across handover and replacement (troops march to the depot, clean their old weapons and gear, hand them in to Armory and Supply, then check out new weapons and gear at the warehouse/armory next door). The ex-SLDF gear will then be sold, giving Taurian Citizens first pick -- the Taurians believe in making lots of heavy weapons available to their Citizens since they're pretty sure that said weapons are going to be aimed at anyone landing who shouldn't be.
* RWR guerrillas will be carrying a mix of RWR and SLDF gear.
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[[Note that I am rather disparaging towards the Confederation...What I'm writing about them also applies to the militia units of every state - the Capellans just seem to have always fielded a far greater number of 'ad hoc' militia-type units]]
As a baseline, the infantryman of 2785 will have:
- a uniform (at higher levels, this will incorporate a GORTEX-like liquid-resistant layer to aid in NBC defense; you'd be amazed at what can pass for a 'uniform')
- a pair of sturdy boots
- a rifle, with about 200-300 rounds, or power cells for an equivalent number of shots
- body armor (maybe - about 40% of Confederation infantry probably won't) of some kind
- a helmet (at the high end, it will include a built-in gas mask; mid-range will allow a mask to either fit over it, or be attached to it; or, the troops will carry the mask separately, and will have to doff the helmet to put it on...unless they are either lazy, badly-led support troops or 40-50% of Confederation infantry)
- some kind of harness to hang magazine pouches and other gear from (if they have armor, it will be built into the armor's exterior)
- a pocket knife
- a utility knife
- a very shiny - and sharp - bayonet (more for intimidating civilians than harming troops)
- at least one 1-qt/2-liter water bottle, either of food-grade plastic or cheap metal (at higher levels, there will be a replaceable activated-charcoal filter in the neck; lower-tech forces will use purification tablets or hand-/gravity-pumped small unit-sized (squad to platoon) filter tanks)
- some kind of mess kit
- some kind of rain gear (serape, hooded poncho, zeltbahn, or a full rain suit)
- a large rucksack (emphasis on sack, if you're in the Confederation), likely with a waterproof layer
- a sleeping bag of some kind (or a blanket if you're really low tech)
- In decent regular forces (....) every trooper will have a personal comm-unit. These will be 'frequency-hoppers', that shift their signals across 5-20 separate channels at a time, to cut down on enemy radio intercepts. Channels and algorithms will be changed anywhere from every 2-5 hours to two or three times a month.
- Any regular or better unit will have at least infrared night goggles for its troops; higher tech forces will have 'light amplifier' goggles that do not require an external IR light to work....
.....That's what I can think of right now......
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Well glad you found it Hammer6R! Some good thoughts on general all around infantry notes. Can you think of any specialized types in a TRO3085 way?
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I would think the FWL would enjoy the most variation in their infantry composition and supply given the number of competing states.
Also Resolution 288 has either just been implemented or has yet to be implemented - so federal control and/or standardization of equipment will years away. I think you'd find more diverse quality here rather than the CC...
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Interesting KM, different regional infantry might make sense with the FWL.
My thoughts dwell on the Capellan Confederation and infantry. Life is cheap and for a poor nation like Liaos a military based on the common soldier might make the most sense. From the Home Guard Militia that make up the bulk of the CCAF to the more specialized elite troopers of the Liao Rangers I can see a massive number of conscripts. Almost Soviet or Mao like with an AK style assault rifle known for its ruggedness not sophistication.
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Interesting KM, different regional infantry might make sense with the FWL.
My thoughts dwell on the Capellan Confederation and infantry. Life is cheap and for a poor nation like Liaos a military based on the common soldier might make the most sense. From the Home Guard Militia that make up the bulk of the CCAF to the more specialized elite troopers of the Liao Rangers I can see a massive number of conscripts. Almost Soviet or Mao like with an AK style assault rifle known for its ruggedness not sophistication.
That's probably very close to the truth. Given the CC's preference for human wave attacks during the Jihad and the callousness in which the Chancellor uses his subjects, I don't expect Capellan Infantry to be "expensive" units.
With the FWL quality would be determined by provincial requirements. Like I said, federalization of the FWLM at this point is either a minor component or just being instituted/reorganized beyond the norm with the passage of Resolution 288.
That being said, I expect some of the best infantry to come from Andurien, with some of the worst hailing from Regulus. I would place the remaining big states somewhere in the middle.
I would also reevaluate your descriptions of the LC's infantry branch. The Lyrans love building and buying "heavy" equipment, i.e. 'Mechs, tanks, etc. - material with some longevity and power to it. Infantry are cheap and "light." From what I've read about the LC during the Succession Wars and their use of infantry, I'd place their equipment right in the middle between the CC and FWL's best. There's also the fact that the LCAF is rife with fraud and laundering of all sorts. With plenty of LC quartermasters and officers lining their pockets with the profits of illegal war material sales. Dumping small & medium arms is a quick way to earn a dishonest S-Bill...
With DC, I would consider the DCMS treatment and troop equipment above the CC, but below that of the LC. The DC was well known for using Chain Gang units and prisoners as infantry cannon fodder. With that in mind, I would expect the DCMS to treat their infantry with mild disdain - satisfied in the knowledge that regardless of outfit, they have the honor or motivation to perform as expected.
Of the five major Houses (IMO) I would expect the AFFS to enjoy the best infantry standard across the board. While other states have exceptions to the rule - I believe the majority of the AFFS's infantry to be the best outfitted and supplied.
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And Periphery infantries?
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KM-
with regards to the FWL- it is worth noting in HMSB p.114 that the FWL's laser rifles are said to be inferior to those of the LC or DC (at least in 3025). I suspect that the equipment assigned to the LC troops may be superior (technically) but that equipment is more plentiful in the FWL.
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And Periphery infantries?
That is beyond the scope of this project Ice but I'll leave the subject open for discussion. I might go on about the Terran Republic but it is the same thing. Threat Assessments includes only the five Great Houses of the InnerSphere not the Terran Republic or the Periphery.
That being said, I expect some of the best infantry to come from Andurien, with some of the worst hailing from Regulus. I would place the remaining big states somewhere in the middle.
Could you explain why KM? Regulus does have a fine martial tradition from what I can recall although they are just coming out of a federal occupation. Are you implying that proximity to a threat (in this case Liao) has something to do with it? Why wouldn't Oriente be the best?
I would also reevaluate your descriptions of the LC's infantry branch. The Lyrans love building and buying "heavy" equipment, i.e. 'Mechs, tanks, etc. - material with some longevity and power to it. Infantry are cheap and "light." From what I've read about the LC during the Succession Wars and their use of infantry, I'd place their equipment right in the middle between the CC and FWL's best. There's also the fact that the LCAF is rife with fraud and laundering of all sorts. With plenty of LC quartermasters and officers lining their pockets with the profits of illegal war material sales. Dumping small & medium arms is a quick way to earn a dishonest S-Bill...
Interesting thoughts. I would say that the Lyran infantry force is likely equipment dependent. Foot soldiers is not likely to be a component of the Commonwealth Line. Mechanized and Jump Infantry sure but in spite of their motive advantage over other infantries I'd say they are still lumbering and slow. I see them as a weapon heavy force with field artillery, support weapons, and all sorts of industrial goodies. I might even nickname them "Mules" cause of all the garbage they have to carry. Corruption could likely be a significant problem and interest in serving may be the lowest among the Successor States.
With DC, I would consider the DCMS treatment and troop equipment above the CC, but below that of the LC. The DC was well known for using Chain Gang units and prisoners as infantry cannon fodder. With that in mind, I would expect the DCMS to treat their infantry with mild disdain - satisfied in the knowledge that regardless of outfit, they have the honor or motivation to perform as expected.
Of the five major Houses (IMO) I would expect the AFFS to enjoy the best infantry standard across the board. While other states have exceptions to the rule - I believe the majority of the AFFS's infantry to be the best outfitted and supplied.
I would agree with you on both of these assessments KM. Chain Gangs are still 40+ years off but your right on. They maybe looked down on by the other branches but their service is appreciated. I would add thoughts on regionalism to the AFFS which plagues the organization.
KM-
with regards to the FWL- it is worth noting in HMSB p.114 that the FWL's laser rifles are said to be inferior to those of the LC or DC (at least in 3025). I suspect that the equipment assigned to the LC troops may be superior (technically) but that equipment is more plentiful in the FWL.
Wow, I was going to have the Marik Assault Rifle of choice at this time be an energy weapon.
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Something worth noting as well is that basic loadouts are going to change depending upon the unit's role.
As an example, airborne infantry is going to be carrying a lighter load than mechanized infantry due to the fact that there is a practical limit to what a parachute can slow down enough to avoid broken bones. Since an airborne trooper will need to carry extra ammunition on his person compared to a mechanized one (no handy IFV to help carry extra), he will skimp elsewhere on weight. Look for the mechanized trooper to be wearing heavier body armor, for example.
There're probably a thousand-and-one little differences, but it would probably be easiest to give "standard" loads for mechanized (or motorized)infantry, leg infantry, airborne infantry, jump infantry, special operations infantry, and anti-'Mech versions of each. Or to give one "standard" load and simply note the variations for each type.
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KM-
with regards to the FWL- it is worth noting in HMSB p.114 that the FWL's laser rifles are said to be inferior to those of the LC or DC (at least in 3025). I suspect that the equipment assigned to the LC troops may be superior (technically) but that equipment is more plentiful in the FWL.
I'd also keep in mind that you're comparing a 3025 FWL to a 2785 FWL - probably not the best example to use considering the 100+ year difference in time. It's like saying the modern infantryman has anything in common (equipment wise) with their mid-19th century counterpart.
By common I'm referring to the "actual" equipment - not the fact that he has a uniform, a gun, etc.
That being said, I expect some of the best infantry to come from Andurien, with some of the worst hailing from Regulus. I would place the remaining big states somewhere in the middle.
Could you explain why KM? Regulus does have a fine martial tradition from what I can recall although they are just coming out of a federal occupation. Are you implying that proximity to a threat (in this case Liao) has something to do with it? Why wouldn't Oriente be the best?
Prior to the SWs Regulus has had issues with the Mariks etc. - that continues to this day. However, before 2785 the province had been under scrutiny for a long, long time. Between the mandates of the Star League, conflicting Provincial and Federal interests and what Regulus has been known to produce - I'd think they'd treat their infantry closer to the DC standard.
As for Andurien, as opposed to Oriente - these worlds have suffered the worst fighting prior to 2785. The Andurien worlds were certainly the most contested between the CC and FWL (possibly having been mentioned in more sourcebooks than any other pre-Star League conflict.) Additionally, throughout the long years of the Succession Wars the Defenders of Andurien had a reputation for being tough, crack troops. Given the ferocity in which the Andurien's defended their homes against the CC in three wars, a tough reputation and (before the fall) intense loyalty to the FWL - I'd say the leaders of Andurien took great pride in their infantry fighting man/woman. They probably went to great lengths to outfit their troops with the best material available.
Whereas I look at the Ducal and Noble bent of Oriente and Marik as way more feudal in orientation and therefore composition. True, feudalism is rampant throughout the Successor States, these two seem more likely to let noble pretense "infect" their military and its material composition.
I would agree with you on both of these assessments KM. Chain Gangs are still 40+ years off but your right on. They maybe looked down on by the other branches but their service is appreciated. I would add thoughts on regionalism to the AFFS which plagues the organization.
Be careful with adding regionalism to the AFFS so soon. The Davion Civil War did much to (if not totally) eradicate dangerous regionalism in the Suns. Remember, Prince Alexander avoided joining the Star League for a few extra year so he could ensure his nation was solid and strong before joining the alliance. The Civil War created a solid, lean mean AFFS fighting machine - one that would then enter the Reunification War. After the RW ended, it's 150+ years of peace. Even the DC's invasion of the Suns is an attack by an outside aggressor - there's nothing better to help shore up those fraternal bonds than an outside aggressor.
It's really the devastating SWs that start (re)creating those regional cracks. I don't think there was a single person armed with foresight as to exactly how bad the SWs were going to be. That creates a lot of finger pointing - as in who's to blame?
So I wouldn't bank on regionalism being a factor in 2785, but in 3025 - you bet! (Cripes, even after the First Succession War there's an argument for it in places like the Draconis March.)
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Mechanizing Infantry. While contemplating a new dropship design that carries large numbers of motorized/mechanized infantry I started to think what actually moves them and does it fit. Such infantry platoon crucibles mass 7 tons the most mass per infantry types. Jump infantry platoons mass 6 tons, although there is 21 soldiers here as opposed to 28, and we know that they have special jump packs that facilitate their movement around the battlefield. Foot infantry has no exotic transport as a 28 man platoon weighs only 5 tons to transport via spacecraft.
Well all this got me thinking what mechanizes these infantry? A 50 ton hover Armored Personnel Carrier (APC) or Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV) seem out of the question. Even 30 ton helicopters (I know this is probably not mechanized infantry rather air cavalry) seem to weigh too much. You got 2 tons per infantry platoon to work with. So what moves all 28 of them at that rate? Scooters? Motorcycles? Hoversleds?
It is an interesting topic for this thread in particular cause mechanized infantry is likely the Frontline Standard at this time. Discuss!
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According to TRO 3085, Mechanised Infantry units use:
- micro-copters,
- hover bikes,
- fast vehicles,
- small hovercrafts,
- light tanks,
- fast armoured vehicles,
- engineering vehicles,
- mechanised carriers,
- mechanised transports,
- personal hovercrafts,
- Harpoon para subs.
It seems that their vehicles range can carry anything between 1 person to 5 (Harpoon para subs).
It could be a question of fluff: recon Mechanised units use small hover bikes while Mechanised Field Artillery units use bigger vehicles.
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Mechanizing Infantry. While contemplating a new dropship design that carries large numbers of motorized/mechanized infantry I started to think what actually moves them and does it fit. Such infantry platoon crucibles mass 7 tons the most mass per infantry types. Jump infantry platoons mass 6 tons, although there is 21 soldiers here as opposed to 28, and we know that they have special jump packs that facilitate their movement around the battlefield. Foot infantry has no exotic transport as a 28 man platoon weighs only 5 tons to transport via spacecraft.
Well all this got me thinking what mechanizes these infantry? A 50 ton hover Armored Personnel Carrier (APC) or Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV) seem out of the question. Even 30 ton helicopters (I know this is probably not mechanized infantry rather air cavalry) seem to weigh too much. You got 2 tons per infantry platoon to work with. So what moves all 28 of them at that rate? Scooters? Motorcycles? Hoversleds?
It is an interesting topic for this thread in particular cause mechanized infantry is likely the Frontline Standard at this time. Discuss!
What about using bicycles?
The use of bicycles improves the load a single trooper can transport.Usage of bicycle's also gives infantry troopers improved range and speed compared to foot infantry.
Footnote: The Swiss Army had a Bicycle Infantry regiment until 2001.
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Another possible transport could simply be smaller trucks like those used in WWII, such as the Opel Blitz or ZIS-5(Truck). The latter being utilized for troops transportation(with 25 soldiers seated in five benches placed in the rear body).
Ciao
Hessian
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Good points Ice and Hessian. I looked up Infantry in the new rules books and it seems that BattleTech has made an important clarification regarding this type of infantry. Motorized and Mechanized are now two distinct types. Motorized Infantry that retains the same transport weight appears to be any troopers who are carried into combat in unarmored units like jeeps, dune buggies, bicycles, etc. Mechanized Infantry is transported via armored units like APC or IFVs.
So here is the question - In the year 2785 would any House field a Line Infantry unit that is not Motorized, Mechanized, or Jump type? I would say no but I'd like to get your thoughts.
Foot infantry might be the exclusive purview of regional powers, noble guards, system defense forces, home guard, planetary militias, and conscript formations. Foot infantry are the real grunts doing almost everything by hand. Little to no mechanized help doing the most basic tasks like moving or entrenching.
If every InnerSphere Infantry Line unit that deploys in combat circa 2785 is aided by some type of motive system it vastly increasing their movement which is key doctrine at this time. I think that makes sense and gives them a big advantage over their 3025 counterparts.
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Probably not except for Guard units or units operating in special areas (mountains, SWAT...).
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So here is the question - In the year 2785 would any House field a Line Infantry unit that is not Motorized, Mechanized, or Jump type? I would say no but I'd like to get your thoughts.
If foot infantry were found in the SLDF I don't see why they wouldn't be in the House Armies. Per SLSB p 133 Infantry Divisions were composed of 2 brigades of Grunt (i.e. foot) infantry and were not dependent on vehicles. These divisions were used in terrain that barred vehicles including heavy forests, mountains and cities. Per the unit listing on page 139 the SLDF had 50 Infantry divisions, compared to 75 jump infantry divisions and 200 mechanized infantry divisions.
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Darn, good points Irose. Hmm, well would you say that the motive systems used by mechanized infantry in 2785 were better than those in 3025?
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Darn, good points Irose. Hmm, well would you say that the motive systems used by mechanized infantry in 2785 were better than those in 3025?
Sure- there were probably more air mobile units and many of the units would be equipped with fusion powered IFVs (designs along the lines of the Goblin, Maxim or even Maultier but using a fusion engine) then ICE powered APCs armed with little more the MGs and very light armor. I doubt the SLDF used a single version of the APC from TR3026- in fact those designs probably came back into vogue during the SW when they were the best that could be built.
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Cool I think I'm gonna comply a list of Infantry Vehicles for our project here.
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This is me, catching up (computer and connection issues).....
As to TRO3085, I honestly don't know about that era as well as I do pre-3060, so I don't feel comfortable commenting on it.
I will have to defer to those with a better understanding of internal FWL politics, but as to the Lyrans, although there will be serious graft and corruption on a regular basis, as it becomes clear that that there is an impending dust-up after Kerensky's pullout, there will be a rapid movement to get things fixed, and quick.
In re infantry motive power, most of the main House infantry units will be motorized or mounted on hover vehicles at the very least...with the proviso that unless we're talking about elite units, most "infantry" are likely to be little more than glorified, heavily-armed police. (This will NOT be the case inside the TH.)
Other than commando's, very few units will use actual parachutes for insertion...but actual Jump units will be largely for show.
Certain specialist units - mountain troops, or jungle units - will almost certainly remained foot-bound.
A good resource for bicycle infantry is "The Bicycle in Wartime", by Fitzpatrick: http://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Wartime-Illustrated-History/dp/1574881574 -- "Smart" infantry will use these. "Most" infantry will not.
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Good to see you back Hammer. I guess you can't motorize/mechanize every line infantry unit. I'll be working on some Terran infantry units in the near term and as Threat Assessments develops infantry for the Houses will come into view.
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I guess you can't motorize/mechanize every line infantry unit.
No Army ever managed or really intended to do so.