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Author Topic: Clans (Read 361 times)
Techwarrior
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Clans
« on: January 21, 2008, 14:47:58 »
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The Clans are basically dieing and of no real threat to the IS, Ghost Bears, left, Nova Cats left, Snow Ravens may leave (have to wait on BT to make up their minds on that one.) Five Clans gone. Wolfs and Jade Falcons worn down.
Question still following canon, in an alternative universe, could one Clan request and receive the genetic codes (giftake) of other Clans no longer in existence and form a new Clan with the intention of rebuilding the Clans so they may someday be able to fulfill their original destiny.
I do not have all the answers, couldn’t possibly until I have a basic answer to that question.
Would the Clans go along with this proposal, would they donate the Giftake of Clans they have and do not use, such as Mongoose legacy’s?
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Ice Hellion
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Re: Clans
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2008, 15:51:07 »
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They would not give access to their Bloodnames and the genetic legacies linked to them.
You would have to declare a Trial of Possession for them.
And if you look at the Clans, they do not have failed: some interpreted in a peculiar way the teachings of the Great Father and some Warden might say (before the Jihad) that uniting the Inner Sphere was a direct result of their actions.
Where do you see failure (I will not develop here the thoughts of the Crusaders because they are a bit too extremist)?
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In Turn they tested each Clan namesake in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle. Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down. All failed to match the predator's speed and grace. Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."
The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage: 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
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Re: Clans
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2008, 16:13:45 »
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Trial of Possession?
Beside the point that the Clans could say they anything, but united the IS was their idea or intention? You jest of course!
Nothing good came out of invading the IS for the Clans. There are fewer clans and the ones left are weaker now then before the invasion. There is a greater rift between the clans since the invasion. Their supply lines are stretched, the home clans are fighting among one another over left overs from the Ghost Bears and Nova Cats.
Even Clan Snow Raven may be leaving. Now there would be a major disaster to the Clans. The Snow Ravens with all their ships leave and move to the Outworlds Alliance, which of course would be way beyond the reach of any of the Clans.
The Clans would have no chance for a hundred years if at all if the Snow Ravens join Ghost Bear and Nova Cat in the Inner Sphere. If that should occur then the Clans would be the ones that should fear invasion.
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Ice Hellion
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Re: Clans
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2008, 13:23:44 »
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Quote from: Techwarrior on January 21, 2008, 16:13:45
Trial of Possession?
Look there:
http://www.kerensky.ultraforce.org/btech/clans/clantrials.htmlQuote from: Techwarrior on January 21, 2008, 16:13:45
Beside the point that the Clans could say they anything, but united the IS was their idea or intention? You jest of course!
I agree with the logistical problems and so on.
As for the point on uniting the Inner Sphere, it depends how you look at it.
The idea of the Great Father was to get back to the Inner Sphere and unite it under the banner of the Star League.
I really do not think that the idea the Clans have of the Star League would be the real one, so for me (but I am more a Warden), the appearance of the Star League in the Inner Sphere is a good thing (even if it is not the old one).
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In Turn they tested each Clan namesake in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle. Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down. All failed to match the predator's speed and grace. Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."
The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage: 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
Techwarrior
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Re: Clans
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2008, 20:00:02 »
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Ice I do not believe I talk to anyone more than you, or argue with anyone more.
Anyway, I understand about Trial of Possession. What I do not understand is, let us take Clan Cloud Cobra. They were given by Clan Smoke Jaguar Clan Mongoose genetic material. (Giftake?)
Why would you have to fight a Trial of Possession for something they really didn't want but took? Also something they did not acquire in battle? I can see no honor in fighting for this, maybe trading battle but not a physical battle.
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Hessian
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Re: Clans
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2008, 13:47:51 »
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Those Mongoose legacies were not given to the Cloud Cobras.
On page 22 pf FM: WC we are told that
.....Clan Smoke Jaguar petitioned for and won the right to Absorb them(=Clan Mongoose), and afterward Jaguar Khan Theodore Osis declared that the Smoke Jaguars "will never use the tainted genes of these schemers" in their eugenics program. Clan Cloud Cobra Khan Josef Mannix then initiated a bold plan. Over the next three years, Cobra warriors fought a series of Trials for the genetic legacies of some of the best warriors of Clan Mongoose. . These Trials brought to our(= Clan Cloud Cobra) genepool more than seventy legacies belonging to eleven Bloodname Houses. Over the protests of Clan Smoke Jaguar, we put those legacies to use , and our Touman soon tripled in size......
So yes there is a precedent for one Clan to acquire genetic material of another (absorbed) Clan.
As to why a Trial of Possession is required i take it that after the Trial of Absorption the assets of Clan Mongoose became part of the Smoke Jaguars. So i think that the Cloud Cobras had two possibilities to obtain the Mongoose legacies:
a) by trade, assuming the Smoke Jaguars would agree to such a trade, which they apparently did not
or
b) by a Trial of Possession which is "a combat Trial to determine ownership of resources"(page 44 of Warriors of Kerensky) and is also used if a Clan wishes to incorporate outside genetic material(e.g. from another Clan). In such a case "that Clan must stage a Trial of Possession for the desired genetic legacy"(page 45 of Warriors of Kerensky).
That´s what i researched for my own alternate Clans some time ago. Smiley
My two € cents
Hessian
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Ice Hellion
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Re: Clans
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2008, 13:50:50 »
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Quote from: Techwarrior on January 22, 2008, 20:00:02
Ice I do not believe I talk to anyone more than you, or argue with anyone more.
This is what I do best: argue with people Tongue
Quote from: Techwarrior on January 22, 2008, 20:00:02
Anyway, I understand about Trial of Possession. What I do not understand is, let us take Clan Cloud Cobra. They were given by Clan Smoke Jaguar Clan Mongoose genetic material. (Giftake?)
Why would you have to fight a Trial of Possession for something they really didn't want but took? Also something they did not acquire in battle? I can see no honor in fighting for this, maybe trading battle but not a physical battle.
Clan Cloud Cobra was not given these genetic lines but acquired them through Trials of Possession after Clan Smoke Jaguar said it did not want to acquire any of these lines.
This way Clan Cloud Cobra increased its Touman quite easily.
And if you do not see why should a Clan fight over a genetic legacy, then you do not fully understand the Clans.
The genetic legacy is what remains of a great warrior after his/her death and allows him/her to live forever (thanks to Bloodname) and to participate in the eugenic programme of the Clans to create the best warriors.
I hope I was clearer on the importance of genetic legacies for the Clans.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 13:52:23 by Ice Hellion » Report to moderator 81.56.118.167 (?)
In Turn they tested each Clan namesake in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle. Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down. All failed to match the predator's speed and grace. Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."
The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage: 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
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Re: Clans
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2008, 13:53:14 »
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Quote from: Hessian on January 23, 2008, 13:47:51
a) by trade, assuming the Smoke Jaguars would agree to such a trade, which they apparently did not
I doubt trade would be really considered unless Clan Diamond Shark is involved (and even then).
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In Turn they tested each Clan namesake in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle. Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down. All failed to match the predator's speed and grace. Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."
The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage: 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
Techwarrior
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Re: Clans
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2008, 16:03:56 »
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Thank you Hessian, I read a slightly different version a while back and do not own that FM. I have just received the MechWarriors Guide to the Clans and have only been able to glance through it.
I understand this false code of conduct the Clans use (trials), I have read several books where they have used Trials to benefit their Personal Clan or their own Personal gain, but never have I read where these Trials are conducted with all the Clans in mind except in some absurd or abstract manor.
My question would be; if one or two Clans offered their services and their resources to bring back a Clan or use their resources (iron wombs/sibkos) to start a new Clan or Clans under the protectorate of the central counsel (maybe wrong term) which would increase the number of Clans and warriors, etc. which is for the good of all the Clans. Then they would have to fight a Trial?
I believe this would be a true mark of whether the Clans truly wish to follow Kerensky’s teachings or show the true colors of the Clans. Are they independent little states, or are they all part of a larger picture?
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Ice Hellion
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Re: Clans
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2008, 14:09:46 »
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Quote from: Techwarrior on January 23, 2008, 16:03:56
I understand this false code of conduct the Clans use (trials), I have read several books where they have used Trials to benefit their Personal Clan or their own Personal gain, but never have I read where these Trials are conducted with all the Clans in mind except in some absurd or abstract manor.
This is not a false code of conduct but a way to minimize the waste of precious resources and men.
Quote from: Techwarrior on January 23, 2008, 16:03:56
My question would be; if one or two Clans offered their services and their resources to bring back a Clan or use their resources (iron wombs/sibkos) to start a new Clan or Clans under the protectorate of the central counsel (maybe wrong term) which would increase the number of Clans and warriors, etc. which is for the good of all the Clans. Then they would have to fight a Trial?
I believe this would be a true mark of whether the Clans truly wish to follow Kerensky’s teachings or show the true colors of the Clans. Are they independent little states, or are they all part of a larger picture?
They would not create a new Clan: they would stick to the original numbers of Clans imagined by Nicholas Kerensky.
This is their way of following Kerensky's teachings.
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In Turn they tested each Clan namesake in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle. Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down. All failed to match the predator's speed and grace. Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."
The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage: 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
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Re: Clans
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2008, 20:13:15 »
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If a Clan or Clans have been absorbed or annihilated they can be brought back?
Smoke Jaguar, Mongoose, etc.
Otherwise you would have to start new Clans with different names.
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Ice Hellion
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Re: Clans
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2008, 06:57:43 »
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Quote from: Techwarrior on January 25, 2008, 20:13:15
If a Clan or Clans have been absorbed or annihilated they can be brought back?
Smoke Jaguar, Mongoose, etc.
For annihilated, no way.
For absorption, it is more complex: maybe if someone issued a Trial of Refusal upon a certain delay, it would work but I know only one example of that (Clan Wolf).
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In Turn they tested each Clan namesake in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle. Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down. All failed to match the predator's speed and grace. Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."
The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage: 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
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Re: Clans
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2008, 07:08:09 »
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So the only Clan that can be brought back to life would be Smoke Jaguar, as they were not vanquished by any of the Clans. They were defeated in honorable combat with a foe.
Is that the logic?
And:
What about the Clans that betrayed the rest, Ghost Bear and Nova Cat? As they are now with the barbarians aren't they the same as the Wolf Dragoons?
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Topic: Clans (Read 6701 times)