OBT Forum
General BattleTech => Inner Sphere => Universal News & Reports => Shattered Dawn => Alternate Universe => Lyran Commonwealth => Topic started by: lrose on February 03, 2010, 07:41:06 AM
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General Notes:
Only 2 units proved adept at lightning raids -Tamar Tigers and Stealths. FM:LA P. 11
LCAF lost 12 major regiments during the 1st SW FM:LA p. 11
2470s/80s mechs were first aquired byLC nobility HSSB p. 25
2506 Robert Steiner orders the Nobilities House troops to be placed under control of the LCAF. HSSB p. 27
Following amendment of 2752 increasing size of the House militaries the LCAF activated 3 mothballed regiments and created 10 new ones. LC Nobility also sought to increase their own private military forces at this time. HSSB p. 37 HBHS p. 32
LCAF began a military build up around 2782 HSSB p. 41
LCAF has a few small units (besides the Tamar Tigers & Stealths) trained for raiding missions HSSB p. 45
During reign of Duke Robert Steiner private armies limited in the size of the mechs they could field. HSSB p. 45
At end of 1st SW LCAF lost 12 full regments, including the Tamar Tigers, 54th LG,181st Heavy Assault, 89th Air Wing. Remaining 110 regiments suffered heavy casaulties with only 3 regiments able to field 60% of their forces. HSSB p. 51
25th Heavy Assault Regiment - stationed on Trolloc Prime at the start of the 1st SW. Commanded by Col. Jerico Marsden (one of the last descendants of Alaistair Marsden) Wiped out in the first battle of the 1st SW. HSSB p. 105
“thousands†of defectors fled into the RWR to Join the SL during the coup. HBHS p. 34
A dozen line regiments were destroyed in the 1st SW, almost 10 times that number had been beaten to less then half strength HBHS p. 39
Arcturan Guards
Founded around 2341 to defend the capital. Originally armor & Infantry forces. 1/4 of their forces have to come from Arcturus. FM:LA p. 54
Regiments which may date back to 2785: 11th, 15th, 17th, 19th, 20th, 23rd & 25th FM:LA
8th AG nickname came during first SW formed ? HSSB p. 69
9th AG disbanded after 6th, 7th & 8th battles of Hesperus II due to heavy losses HSSB p. 62
11th AG Golden Lions formed ? HSSB p. 69
15th AG Stavlos Tigers formed ? HSSB p. 69
17th AG Kezla Rams formed ? HSSB p. 69
19th AG Puma formed ? HSSB p. 69
20th AG White Bears of Uther -specialize in cold weather warfare formed ? HSSB p. 69
20th AG fought on Alexandria in 2953 HSSB p. 72
23rd AG Frost Giants formed ? formed from Arcturan Northern Nomads & Tharkan Woodsmen HSSB p. 69
24th Red Indians formed ? HSSB p. 69
25th Ag Kewran Wolfhounds formed ? HSSB p. 69
Donegal Guards
date back to the Protectorate of Donegal. At their heigh they contailed 100 regiments, 20 of which were battlemech forces. FM:LA p. 62
2nd DG “Unwearied Secondâ€- originally 11th Terran Rangers-stranded after the uprising against the alliance, eventually joined the Protectorate as the 2nd unit of the Donegal Guards. FM:LA p. 63
3rd DG “Justice Brigade†name comes from role in the Centenary celebration of the COmmonwealth Supreme Court in 2643. FM:LA p. 64
4th DG- nickname did come into use until 2846 FM:LA p. 65
5th DG Bulldogs may date to SL era FM:LA p. 66
6th DG White Hawks - may date to SL Era FM:LA p. 67
7th DG Earthquakers - may date to SL Era nickname may be more recet FM:LA p. 68
8th DG Mud Wrestlers - may date back to SLDF era- nickname is from 2895 FM:LA p. 69
10th DG Lilly’s Lancers - formed ? nicknamed after 1st CO impaled a DC mech with a girder HSSB p. 68
11th DG The Push ME Pull Yours regiment - may date to SLDF era FM:LA p. 70
12th DG formed ? HSSB p. 33
12th DG nickname the Crocodiles HSSB p. 68
13th DG formed in early 2nd SW FM:LA p. 71
14th DG - formed? nickname is from 3rd SW FM:LA p. 72
17th Dg- Formed? FM:LA p. 73
Lyran Guard
Formed 2341 as main force of the new LCAF FM:LA P. 74
At their heigh they numbered almost 60 regiments (not clear if all were mech regiments) FM:LA p. 74
1st LG destroyed by clans - Formed ? FM:LA p. 74
2nd LG - fought DC on Port Mosbey later disbanded HSSB p. 57
2nd LG fought in 2nd SW commanded by Claudius Steiner HBHS p. 42
2nd LG fought on Port Moseby in 1st Sw TR3025 p. 24
3rd LG Eversworded Third- formed ? FM:LA p. 75
3rd LG nickname did not come into use until 1st SW HSSB p. 51
5th LG The Steadfast - formed ? FM:LA p. 76
5th LG NOTE: Not mentioned in HSSB
6th LG Saucy Sixth formed? FM:LA p. 77
6th LG nickname did not come into use until 1st SW HSSB p. 51
10th LG The Revenants formed ? p.78
10th LG nickname given as Thundering Elephants HSSB P. 51
11th LG fought in 1st SW-2791 commanded by Richard Steiner future Archon HSSBp.49
13th LG - fought in 1st SW HSSb p. 49
14th LG Fearsome Fourteenth formed ? p. 79 FM:LA
14th LG - Nickname comes from when unit was painted black red & gray for battle on baxter HSSB p. 51
15th LG Death or Glory Boys formed ? FM:LA p. 80
19th LG formed ? fought in 2nd SW, nickname dates to 2nd SW HSSB p. 54
24th LG Slashers formed ? FM:LA p. 81
24th LG Nickname dates to 2nd SW
26th LG Steiner’s Boots formed ? FM:LA p. 82
30th LG formed? Includes elements of 2nd LG HSSB
32nd LG Red Arrows Formed ? F:LA p. 83
36th LG Air Surfers nicknamed acquired 3012 formed? FM:LA p. 84
54th LG formed around 2814 HSSB p. 50
Lyran Regulars
prior to Exodus ad-hoc brigade of armor, mech and infantry regiments,. During the regency/coup Regulars became a permanent organization- bolstered with mercs, SLDF
Vets and RWR soldiers FM:LA p.85
1st LR -The boomers - former mercs that joined the LC in exchange for titles & Land HSSB p. 75
3rd LR Bee Squishers formed ? FM:LA p. 86
3rd LR Nickname is probably from the SW era HSSB p. 75
4th LR Tropic Lightning formed ? FM:LA p. 87
5th LR Ferris Wolverines formed ? FM:LA p. 88
5th LR former Mercs forced into LCAF by C* after a contract dispute HSSB p. 75
6th LR Mad Hatters HSSB p. 75 NOTE not listed on deployment chart in HSSB
7th LR Fighting Seventh formed early 1st SW FM:LA p. 89
7th LR nickname given as New Delhi Lancers HSSB p. 75
8th LR Mad Hatters - formed from POWs and dispossed MWs after the Exodus, raided SLDF depot on stewart for equipment. FM:LA p. 90
8th LR NOTE: Not listed in HSSB list of regimental Nicknames but is listed on deployment chart
9th LR Karilon Magicians - formed 1sw by RWR mechwarrior brotherhood that opposed amaris and join Kerensky. FM:LA p. 91
10th LR Stingbarflies formed ? FM:LA p. 92
11th LR Hammers formed ? FM:LA p. 93
12th LR - 2742 engaged & destroyed bandits on Butte Hold HSSB p. 36
12th LR fought FWL on Bella 1 in 2813 HSSB p. 50
14th LR fought FWL on Bella 1 in 2813 HSSB p. 50
15th LR Bully Boys formed ? FM:LA p 94
23rd LR formed in 2859 HSSB p. 62
54th LR - CONTRADICTION HBHS list Grimm as commanding the 54th LR not the 65th LR HBHS p. 41
65th LR fought in 2nd SW, commanded by Hendrik Grimm formed ? HSS p. 56
Royal Guards
most prestigous unit in the LC. FM:LA P.95
1st RG - Pride of Donegal FM:LA P. 96
2nd RG Pride of Skye FM:LA P.97
3rd RG Pride of Tamar FM:LA P. 98
4th RG Pride of the Lyran Commonwealth FM:LA p. 95
4th RG fought in the Reunification war under the direct command of Archon Viola Steiner-Dinesen HSSB p. 32
Skye Rangers
Originally part of Federation of Skye Military FM:LA p. 99
3rd SR lost 2890s? defending Freedom HSSB p. 67
4th SR formed ? FM:LA P. 100
4th SR nicknamed Albion after the first freighter owned by Ian McQuiston HSSB p. 61
10th SR - Black Watch HSSB p. 61
10th SR - contradiction -regiment permantly disbanded after 6th, 7th & 8th battles of Hesperus II due to heavy losses- solution make this the 11th SR HSSB p. 62
17th SR formed ? FM:LA p. 101
17th SR -nickname dates to houshold troop agreement of 2883 HSSB p. 61
22nd SR formed ? FM:LA P. 102
22nd SR - as of 3025 had not seen action - may be a newer unit HSSB p; 61
25th Skye Rangers - fought in the RW HSSB p. 33
25th Skye Rangers - involved in Viola Steiners ‘Day of Rage†during RW HBHS p. 28
Tamar Tigers
House troops of Duke of Tamar - fought in RW HSSB p. 33
Originally 1st Tamar Hussars, received mechs in 2465, well trained & equipped. Never had any heavy mechs due to LC laws. Expert in swift & Mobile warfare. Flamboyant & Daring characters both in & out of battle HSSB p. 45
Graham Kelswa duke of Carse commanded Tamar Tigers in 2791 HSSB p. 49
involved in Viola Steiners ‘Day of Rage†during RW HBHS p. 28
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From Merc Guild
9th Arcturan Guard fought on Sudeten in 2780s p. 223
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Takiro:
Wow, poor Lyrans got no love what so ever. Well here are some initial thoughts and I think there is a UNR article on the subject.
Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces
122 BattleMech Regiments (as of 2785)
The LCAF seems low because of their industry and wealth but remember they could have been hit hard by defections to the SLDF and causalities from their war with the Rim Republic.
LCAF Unprepared?!
Tamar (Tamar Broadcasting)
September 1, 2785
In a speech yesterday General Thomas Kearny, Margrave of the Tamar Theater declared the “LCAF is unprepared for warâ€. The General cited numerous problems facing the LCAF and called on the Archon to institute immediate reforms. Speaking in front of a meeting of the local LCAF Veterans Association, his remarks were met with cheers from the crowd.
Margrave Kearny is an outspoken critic of LCAF high command and General of the Armies Paul Steiner, commander of the LCAF. In his speech Margrave Kearny called on the Archon to improve planetary security. According to the Margrave, LCAF security protocols are insufficient to safeguard the Lyran border from raiders and invaders. The Margrave called for increasing the number of border patrols and instituting new policies which would challenge any vessels entering Lyran space. The Margrave has also called on the General of the Armies to improve the deep-space radars and early warning systems on border worlds. According to data provided by the Margrave, LCAF early warning systems failed to detect incoming vessels 50% of the time. When asked to comment on this data, Admiral Melanie Hangzu, commander of the Tamar Theater fleet, refused to confirm or deny the Margrave’s allegations citing national security considerations.
The Margrave also cited concerns about the composition of the LCAF. A former commander of the Tamar Tigers, Margrave Kearny is considered one of the Commonwealth’s leading light mech tacticians. Margrave Kearny has called on the LCAF to create several more regiments of light forces to provide the top heavy LCAF with a more mobile strike force. This view is diametrically opposite to that of the LCAF high command. These views have caused significant trouble for the Margrave throughout his career, it is only the patronage of Duke Kelswa, ruler of the Tamar Pact, which have kept the Margrave from being cashiered by the LCAF.
When asked to comment on the Margrave’s speech, Colonel Hampton Von Drake of the 8th Lyran Guards had this to say. “Margrave Kearny is entitled to his views, but that does not make them right. As everyone knows the LCAF is equipped with the largest, finest and most powerful tanks in the Inner Sphere. We have nothing to fear from the lesser forces of the Draconis Combine or Free Worlds League.â€
Hmm, I geuss not. At least I can't find it anyway. Let me see what else I can find.
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Ice Hellion:
The LCAF is probably top heavy.
I do not think their units would be assigned directly to the borders.
They would be in the rear in reserve (for counter strikes or massive attacks) or protecting key worlds.
The defence of the planets would fall upon the shoulders of the local militias with support 'Mechs and tanks.
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Takiro:
Actually they would be deployed to the borders Ice. One, occupation of the RWR must take some of the LCAF strength and place it along the Periphery border. Two, responding to bandit radits on Bone Norman the LCAF has shifted strength to Tamar Pact and away from Skye. Three, the attack on Bolan has at least three regiments tied down there with mop up operations and from that I must assume they have place extra forces along the FWL border on defense.
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CJvR:
Quote from: Takiro on July 05, 2009, 02:55:19 PM
Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces
122 BattleMech Regiments (as of 2785)
The LCAF seems low because of their industry and wealth but remember they could have been hit hard by defections to the SLDF and causalities from their war with the Rim Republic.
Even if the LCAF have fewer regiments than the FS and DCMS it was top heavy and a shift of 5 tons / mech in each regiment ends up with about 66000 tons more BM tonnage, about 12 regiments worth of 50 ton medium machinery. Being rather top heavy the LCAF would be more sensitive to defections since it would have a smaller manpower pool to draw on.
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Takiro:
Quite right CJvR, they might not have numbers but they do have a heavier force then any House.
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FirstStarLord:
I feel the reason the Lyrans had a smaller force was because they were less militaristic then the other nations of the Inner Sphere. They believed in the Star League more then any other nation besides the Hegemony itself, and there was probably some resistance to using their huge industrial base for a military build-up when many businesses thought that peace would somehow prevail.
Even the LCAF itself would not have been too keen on enlarging and reorganizing its forces under Robert Steiner. The generals did not trust Robert, since he would have used the expansion as an excuse to give promotions to his cronies and drive out the professionals. Plus he ordered them into an unpopular war with the defenceless Rim Worlds Republic while the Terren Hegemony was burning. Jennifer Steiner may have more support for military refrom, but its hard to undo decades of malign neglect in only four years.
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Rainbow 6:
If i'm remembering correctly the LCAF has 30 regiments deployed bringing former RWR worlds into the Commonwealth and 3 on Bolan, plus whatever has been moved to Bonne Norman, that already accounts for over 1/4 of the LCAF's strength.
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Takiro:
Good thoughts guys. Here is more to chew on plus a mathematical guess on the size of Lyran Guard at this time, see if you like it. The Succession War game provides plenty of new units for us to use interestingly enough.
FASA 1612 - Succession Wars
Order of Battle: 2786
Unit Name Unit Strength
1 Lyran Guard 8
2 Lyran Guard 5
3 Lyran Guard 4
4 Lyran Regulars 5
5 Lyran Regulars 4
6 Lyran Regulars 3
7 Lyran Regulars 3
8 Skye Rangers 9
9 Skye Rangers 4
10 Royal Guards 5
11 Royal Guards 4
12 Donegal Guards 5
13 Donegal Guards 5
14 Donegal Guards 4
15 Arcturan Guard 6
16 Arcturan Guard 5
17 Arcturan Guard 4
18 Hesperus Guards 3
19 Hesperus Guards 2
20 York Regulars 3
21 York Regulars 2
22 Odessa Regulars 2
23 Odessa Regulars 2
24 Sakhalin Regulars 2
25 Sakhalin Regulars 2
SLDF Unit Elements (SLSB)
63rd Mechanized Infantry Division
101st Mechanized Infantry Division
68th Infantry Division (The Thai Militia)
368th BattleMech Division (The Apache Division)
18th Infantry Division
Loyalist Regiments (did any return??)
12 Lyran Guard regiments? From the example provided by the Donegal Guard were 20 out of 100 regiments were BattleMech equipped, equals 1/5. You take the height of 60 regiments blurb from the Lyran Guard write up and you get 12 Mech regiments. Does that make sense?? 60 Mech regiments sounds a little bit much to believe in a single contingent.
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rainbow 6:
Humm so the LCAF have regiments based on Odessa and still missed the construction of Gabriel!
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Takiro:
LOL, but at least you'd probably guess them and the Hesperus Guards as former SLDF contingents. Both locales being home to major SL installations.
No idea what the Sakhalin and York Regulars would be? Perhaps the same or Loyalist regiments returning home??
There is also the Donegal Regulars in the box set as well but they don't appear on the 2786 chart.
And what of Tamar's forces? Only 1 regiment of light Mechs??
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Really not sure about the Hesperus, Odessa, York or Sakhallin forces, even if they do appear in the SW game.
Donegal Guards-
If you look in FM:LA there are about 50 non mech units int he Donegal Guards that use the name Donegal- a few do duplicate numbers used by the mech regiments.
The Lyran Guard have 41 non mech regiments that use the name Lyran. On the other hand the LG were formed shortly after the formation of the LC as an elite force composed of the best and brighest of the LC. Interesting the line in FM:LA is:
At their most powerful, the Lyran Guards numbered almost 60 regiments, but today only 10 remain. (p. 74) As the 10 represent the existing mech regiments I would be inclined to say the 60 is also referring to mech regiments.
When you look at the numbers for the other formations having about 60 Lyran Guards would work and we would not need to make up many formations-
say 55 Lyran Guards, 20 Donegal Guards, 4 Royal Guards, 15 Skye Rangers, 20 Arcturan Guard and 8 Lyran Regulars give us 122 mech regiments.
Also interesting to note - in the 2341 map of the LC Arcturus is in the Tamar Pact- it becomes a Donegal worlds some time before the Reunification War- maybe the Arcturan Guard was the Tamar contribution (but then they at first only recruited from Arcuturus so what about soldiers from other worlds in the Tamar pact who wanted to join the LC- did that have to join the Lyran Guard?)
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Takiro:
A sixty BattleMech regiment contingent! Shocked That blows away the other Houses by far for single largest group making them almost unweildly as a command. It would account for nearly half of their BattleMech strength. And finally it doesn't make full sense by the numbers. The 54th Lyran Guards "Hempsted's Greyhounds" were formed in 2818 (within a year or two) and they are the highest numbered unit I'm aware of. I'd say no more than 30 of their regiments were Mech and that is still massive!
As a general observation of the Lyran military numerical system, its all over the place! The LCAF regularly skips over numbers. They don't seem to rebuild destroyed commands. Added a number of commands perhaps the most during the 1st Succession War again in a nod to starting new rather than rebuilding.
And now to tackle another issue the Lyran Regulars?? How many of them existed when the war starts? I know I planned on adding the 5th later, see the Ferris Wolverines in Fanbook 3 - Mercenary Guild. Does that mean 4 regiments? They are referred to as a hodgepodge? Hell we go all the way out to the 65th Lyran Regulars of Grimm who defect in 2855. Doubt they are around but damned if this ain't a canon mess!
Would any RWR troops join the Lyran military? Could this be the foundation of the Lyran Regulars who are looked at as mercenaries by the High Command?
For the Arcturan Guard it seems as though a quarter of their personnel come from Arcturus for centuries but I can see where you are going the command could be closely linked to Tamar. Not a bad call.
Is there only one Tamar Hussars?
Made a mistake myself on the 4 Royal Guards seemingly being set in stone. The bigmac pointed out correctly that "the 5th Royal Guards are mentioned on page 87 of the original House Steiner SB".
So only the 20 Donegal Guards are set
Quote from: lrose on July 05, 2009, 11:12:12 PM
Really not sure about the Hesperus, Odessa, York or Sakhallin forces, even if they do appear in the SW game.
I don't put credence in these forces as canon units per say but like to include them out of an homage to the game. The cool thing about every one of these units except the Hesperus Guards is they could be folded into the Lyran Regulars as individual units.
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Quote from: Takiro on July 05, 2009, 11:46:39 PM
A sixty BattleMech regiment contingent! Shocked That blows away the other Houses by far for single largest group making them almost unweildly as a command. It would account for nearly half of their BattleMech strength. And finally it doesn't make full sense by the numbers. The 54th Lyran Guards "Hempsted's Greyhounds" were formed in 2818 (within a year or two) and they are the highest numbered unit I'm aware of. I'd say no more than 30 of their regiments were Mech and that is still massive!
Well it said almost 60 which is why I put down 55. And as you note- LCAF number is very random. I will still argue that the way the entry is written it refers to mech regiments only...
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And now to tackle another issue the Lyran Regulars?? How many of them existed when the war starts? I know I planned on adding the 5th later, see the Ferris Wolverines in Fanbook 3 - Mercenary Guild. Does that mean 4 regiments? They are referred to as a hodgepodge? Hell we go all the way out to the 65th Lyran Regulars of Grimm who defect in 2855. Doubt they are around but damned if this ain't a canon mess!
Per FM:LA- they were an Ad-Hoc formation until the Regency/Coup years.
This organization is a nightmare to figure out-
The 1st was former mercs who joined the LCAF in exchange for titles & land.
The 5th was mercs forced to join the LCAF by C*
The 8th was formed right around the start of the 1st SW by dispossed mechwarriors & pows who raided a SL depot on Stewart after the exodus.
The 9th formed during the 1st SW from RWR brotherhood that opposed Amaris & joined Kerensky (there's you're former RWR members)
The 12th fought on Butte Hold in 2742
I would put the Regulars at 8-10 regiments, pick what ever random numbers you like and just run with it.
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Is there only one Tamar Hussars?
As far as we know- they became the Tamar Tigers.
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Made a mistake myself on the 4 Royal Guards seemingly being set in stone. The bigmac pointed out correctly that "the 5th Royal Guards are mentioned on page 87 of the original House Steiner SB".
I'd attribute then note on page 87 to some one fat finger the 5 instead of the 4. The 4 makes so much sense -Pride of Donegal, Pride of Skye, Pride of Tamar, Pride of the Commonwealth
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I don't put credence in these forces as canon units per say but like to include them out of an homage to the game. The cool thing about every one of these units except the Hesperus Guards is they could be folded into the Lyran Regulars as individual units.
I guess they would work as part of the Regulars.
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Takiro:
Quote from: lrose on July 06, 2009, 01:39:11 AM
Well it said almost 60 which is why I put down 55. And as you note- LCAF number is very random. I will still argue that the way the entry is written it refers to mech regiments only...
I just don't know, as there would have to be a number higher than 54 and I've never seen it. How about we check out TRO 3075 or the newer canon and see if there is something. Also I'd like to get other input.
Quote from: lrose on July 06, 2009, 01:39:11 AM
Per FM:LA- they were an Ad-Hoc formation until the Regency/Coup years.
This organization is a nightmare to figure out-
The 1st was former mercs who joined the LCAF in exchange for titles & land.
The 5th was mercs forced to join the LCAF by C*
The 8th was formed right around the start of the 1st SW by dispossed mechwarriors & pows who raided a SL depot on Stewart after the exodus.
The 9th formed during the 1st SW from RWR brotherhood that opposed Amaris & joined Kerensky (there's you're former RWR members)
The 12th fought on Butte Hold in 2742
I would put the Regulars at 8-10 regiments, pick what ever random numbers you like and just run with it.
The 12th is interesting as there is another unit mentioned on Bella I at this time.
Quote from: lrose on July 06, 2009, 01:39:11 AM
I'd attribute then note on page 87 to some one fat finger the 5 instead of the 4. The 4 makes so much sense -Pride of Donegal, Pride of Skye, Pride of Tamar, Pride of the Commonwealth
The 5th could be aptly named the Pride of the Archon as they apparently are the Guardians of the Royal Palace. How about we check if this was retconned in HBHS? It may mention the event again as it was significant.
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Ice Hellion
What about making some reserve forces (like the Prussian militia of late 19th Century), allowing the strength of the LCAF to be quickly increased when needed thanks to the heavy industrial might of the Lyran Commonwealth (which allows them to stockpile 'Mechs and tanks when in peace)?
This would allow the "I believe in the Star League" credo with the "I do not trust Robert Steiner because he just wants to give titles to his friends" and the capacity to mobilize against the Rim Worlds Republic.
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Rainbow 6
On the Arcturan Guards issue i think it says in FM:LA that only a quarter of the personel in each regiment need to be from Arcturus. This could mean that the rest could come from the rest of the Tamar Pact if you want to make them the pacts military?
Oh and i like the idea of 55 regiments of Lyran Guards, it seems to fit with the whole big is better LCAF mentallity.
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Quote from: Rainbow 6 on July 06, 2009, 06:55:23 PM
On the Arcturan Guards issue i think it says in FM:LA that only a quarter of the personel in each regiment need to be from Arcturus. This could mean that the rest could come from the rest of the Tamar Pact if you want to make them the pacts military?
HBHS p. 107-108 -the Arcturan Guard were originally only open to people from Arcturus. Later it opened up to people from other worlds.
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Rainbow 6
Quote from: lrose on July 06, 2009, 08:18:35 PM
HBHS p. 107-108 -the Arcturan Guard were originally only open to people from Arcturus. Later it opened up to people from other worlds.
Does it say when this was?
I assume its when the capital moves to Tharkad and a large part of Arcturus' population moved off world.
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Quote from: Rainbow 6 on July 06, 2009, 09:25:57 PM
Does it say when this was?
I assume its when the capital moves to Tharkad and a large part of Arcturus' population moved off world.
Probably but no specific date is given.
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Takiro
Ok how about we come back to the Guard last. We shall deal with the other formations first and that will show us how big they need to be. I certainly do not think they have even 50 regiments but I will slap myself and work to this. How is that??
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Takiro
Man it is tough to get a read on the LCAF. Do you guys think there could have been more than 1 Tamar Hussars? Sorry just really having a tough time with Steiner. They seem to have few contingents (7 in all - Arcturan Guards, Donegal Guards, Lyran Guard, Lyran Regulars, Royal Guards, Skye Rangers, Tamar Hussars) as well. Why is that I will get the numbers from other Houses. Any training formations??
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Rainbow 6
Quote from: Takiro on July 09, 2009, 04:43:57 PM
Man it is tough to get a read on the LCAF. Do you guys think there could have been more than 1 Tamar Hussars? Sorry just really having a tough time with Steiner. They seem to have few contingents (7 in all - Arcturan Guards, Donegal Guards, Lyran Guard, Lyran Regulars, Royal Guards, Skye Rangers, Tamar Hussars) as well. Why is that I will get the numbers from other Houses. Any training formations??
On the size of the Lyran Gurads, as Top put it on Asgard last night, if you are a Lyran MechWarrior would you rather be in a Guards Regiment or a Regulars Regiment?
The LCAF has never used cadre formations.
I've never seen anything that says that the Tamar Hussars had more than 1 regiment but i can't see the Tamar Pact having a standing regional army that is that small.
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Ice Hellion
I think you could have lots of Guards units, making them at the same time a good place to put Social Generals and a good way to keep local powers happy.
But do not forget to move most of the Guards away from their own Provinces, just in case.
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Takiro
I did some work up on numbers, we are aiming for 122 regiments.
Arcturan Guards (25 regiments at most)
Donegal Guards (20 regiments)
Lyran Guard (53 regiments at most)
Lyran Regulars (10 regiments at most?)
Royal Guards (4-5 regiments)
Skye Rangers (25 regiments at most)
Tamar Hussars (1 regiments maybe more)
With those possibilities you come up with 138-139. So we got room to wiggle down.
Lyran Guard has the most room for downsizing but I think the Arcturan Guards and Skye Rangers could be smaller. Perhaps for them we could use the Donegal Guards as a base line. Would each have more or less then them? Explain why.
Only Donegal Guards are fixed at 20 regiments and the Royal Guards issue is to 5th or not to 5th.
The Lyran Regulars and Tamar Hussars are candidates for slight increases.
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Ice Hellion
Tamar should be kept low in numbers (unless you find somewhere something saying that the Duke of Tamar are so rich they can afford to equip several 'Mechs units with their own money).
I think that the Arcturan, Donegal Guards and Skye Rangers should be equal in numbers (just to avoid political troubles).
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Rainbow 6
Only 4 Regiments for the Royal Guard in my opinion.
10 regiments at the start of the SW sounds about right for the Lyran Regulars as (and i'm going off memory here), a large number of the regiments formed after the fall of the Star League.
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Tamar Tigers/Hussars- I have never seen any mention of a unit other then the 1st. The unit is said to have been the pride & joy of the "various Dukes of Tamar" and that they were "first of their private troops to receive mechs in 2465" -That could mean there were other units that latter received mechs. But I think I would prefer keeping the Tigers/Hussars as a single mech regiment and other other units in the formation as conventional troops.
I think 25 regiments is way too many for the Skye Rangers- I would go more like 10. The Skye Rangers were the original army of the Federation of Skye, but with the formation of the LC, I think the archons would prefer to focus units like the Guards which are loyal to the LC and the not the Rangers who may have regional loyalties.
I would keep the Royal Guard at 4 regiments.
I have no issue with large numbers of Arcturan Guard regiments- somewhere around the size of the Donegal Guards.
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FirstStarLord
Definitely keep the Royal Guards at four regiments. The 5th may have been mentioned in canon but it really has no other references to back it up and in fact contridicts everything we otherwise know about the Royal Guards.
Tamar always seems to have been the poor relation of the three states of the Commonwealth. While it may seem strange that they only field one regiment, it may simply because the Steiners have worked hard to keep the Pact's homegrown battlemech forces small so that they could keep firmer control of it. Remember that among the fouding states, Donegal was a major trading power, Skye had the industry, and Tamar was known for its military power and agriculture. Donegal won the battle for political dominance, but in the beginning Tamar had the potential to upset that control far more so then Skye. Recruiting Pact citizens into the regular LCAF regiments (like the Lyran Guard) while running down Tamar's own military would have given the Steiners two advantages. First, the Lyran Guard benefits from having a large number of martially inclined soldiers in their ranks. Second, the LCAF can oversee these potentially troublesome soldiers directly and mold them into loyal Lyrans.
Maybe we can even explain why the Lyran Guard is so large by expanding on this idea. Perhaps a number of Lyran Gaurd regiments are former Tamar Pact regiments absorbed into the Guard on the pretext of their excellent performance fighting against the Combine. They could then be flooded with recruits from other provinces and molded into politically reliable units. It would explain things rather nicely.
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Takiro
Well don't forget that Civil War were Reynolds saved Steiner from certain death on Tamar. Plus when Marsden seized control of the Commonwealth from the other 8 Archons. Certainly there has been an erosion of Tamar military presence as a result. Likely to the harm of the LCAF skill.
The Lyran Guard is shaping up as almost a National Guard formation in my eye. They are the bulk of the LCAF obviously which draws similarities to the Marik Militia but on a larger scale obviously. Even with a reduction in size they are still much larger than any House force I can remember. No still haven't checked. Just as a special note, the Hesperus Guard got me thinking. Weren't there always two Lyran Guard units always garrisoning Hesperus? I'll look in MW2 RPG book.
I could still go higher on the number of Lyran Regulars. The numbers are all over the place but I'm getting a handle on it gradually. First I'm tracking down Regulars that existed prior to the disintegration of the SLDF. Then we add the 6 SLDF units. One will cover the Odessa Regulars linked to the secret unknown you know what possibly, the York Regulars I'd like to make a former Loyalist Regiment that returned. Any ideas for Sakahalin Regulars? So we might end up with more than 10 Regulars but not much more.
Royal Guards will be four regiments and there will be just a single Tamar Hussars, BattleMech wise anyway.
One thing that might limit the size of the Arcturan Guard is the native personnel requirement. A quarter of the unit must come from Arcturus, so being 20 regiments strong means 5 regiments would be from the homeworld. Is that reasonable?? Plus I like their link to Tamar.
Skye Rangers should be smaller but 10 regiments? Hmm, not sure. That would leave a ton of Lyran Guards.
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FirstStarLord
I always understood the meaning of the line on recruitment for the Arcturan Guards to be that within each regiment 25% of the personnel had to be from Arcturus. Also, it does seem that the AG has a close relationship with Tamar. Perhaps they form the bulk of the battlemech garrison for the Pact during this period?
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Takiro
Yeah that is what we were thinking on the Tamar - Arcturus Guard relationship. The Lyran Guard has representatives and contigents from every corner of the Commonwealth.
You are correct again 25% in each regiment but if you take 20 regiments for example that is roughly 5 regiments from just Arcturus alone spread throughout of course. Essentially it is a numbers game that I'm asking you to say what is realistic or BT appropraite for that number to be.
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FirstStarLord
Well it seems like Arcturus's main industry is providing cannon fodder for the LCAF, so it's not that unreasonable. I mean, Northwind supported six regiments of mechs plus support troops during this era, and New Hessen was able to raise three at the tail-end of the Succession Wars, so it's not unheard of for one world to provide a large contingent of troops.
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Quote from: Takiro on July 10, 2009, 03:28:13 AM
Yeah that is what we were thinking on the Tamar - Arcturus Guard relationship. The Lyran Guard has representatives and contigents from every corner of the Commonwealth.
You are correct again 25% in each regiment but if you take 20 regiments for example that is roughly 5 regiments from just Arcturus alone spread throughout of course. Essentially it is a numbers game that I'm asking you to say what is realistic or BT appropraite for that number to be.
In HBHS Arcturus has a population of a little over 1 billion people and the entry notes that the planet is covered with cities builtt for a population far in excess of that number- 5 regiments is nothing- maybe a few thousand people- even if on 1/10 of 1% of the population joined the military you are looking at about 1 million soldiers just from Arcturus.
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Takiro
What you say makes real world sense Irose but FirstStarLord's example of Northwind is a better BattleTech comparison. If Northwind equaled Arcturus in regards to commitment (6 regiments) the LCAF could have a 24 BattleMech Regiment contingent out of the Guard. As you note the planet was far larger population wise especially during the Star League era and is far safer at the time as well. Not sure what the population would be at this time but here is a thought as well. With available housing Arcturus is ideal for refugees from the Hegemony or the Lyran border which could swell the populace and number of Guards. Bottom line what do you think a good number for native Arcturans would be? We could do 6 regiments total for a total of 24. This is larger than Donegal but it does have national ties plus strong Tamar support. I like how they are shaping up. Wink
Now for the Lyran Regulars. The whole organization seems kind of new for this time period. Could their ad hoc nature mean they were born from the Hidden War? Also there seems to be two separate formations. I think the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th could have existed at the time of the 1st Succession War as well as the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th. Perhaps this is a Steiner effort to disguise and hide units?? Have to think of a reason for the numerical separation. Now after we determine that we can add our SLDF returnees 6 regiments more, so we can go higher than ten which I favor.
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Rainbow 6
All sounds good, had a thought about how the LCAF didn't know about the Odessa systems secret, if the Odessa Regulars are keeping the secret for the Star League and were on planet at the start of the succession war then they could have been in and around the planetary capital which was nuked by a DCMS task force from orbit according to the Archers Avengers novel set on Odessa, taking there secret to their graves.
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LordGrayson
Quote from: Takiro on July 10, 2009, 10:34:23 AM
What you say makes real world sense Irose but FirstStarLord's example of Northwind is a better BattleTech comparison. If Northwind equaled Arcturus in regards to commitment (6 regiments) the LCAF could have a 24 BattleMech Regiment contingent out of the Guard. As you note the planet was far larger population wise especially during the Star League era and is far safer at the time as well. Not sure what the population would be at this time but here is a thought as well. With available housing Arcturus is ideal for refugees from the Hegemony or the Lyran border which could swell the populace and number of Guards. Bottom line what do you think a good number for native Arcturans would be? We could do 6 regiments total for a total of 24. This is larger than Donegal but it does have national ties plus strong Tamar support. I like how they are shaping up. Wink
Now for the Lyran Regulars. The whole organization seems kind of new for this time period. Could their ad hoc nature mean they were born from the Hidden War? Also there seems to be two separate formations. I think the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th could have existed at the time of the 1st Succession War as well as the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th. Perhaps this is a Steiner effort to disguise and hide units?? Have to think of a reason for the numerical separation. Now after we determine that we can add our SLDF returnees 6 regiments more, so we can go higher than ten which I favor.
The Lyran Regular's strike me as a formation made between the time LC command believes the Star League is done and they notice they are lacking in unit's and pretty much accept anyone able and willing into this formation to be a more or less a stop gap. As for the numbering of regular's units they could of handed out or sold ( this is the Lyran's after all) the regimental permits to said people and not all of the numbered permits that where given/sold got formed up.( Say 10 regiment permits where sold but only 7 regiments ended up actually forming 1st , 3rd , 4th , 5th , 8th, 9th , 10th ) Also think if ur going to add units its going to be in the form of Lyran Regulars and Lyran Guards. The Lyran Guard's was stated in one of the source books as being the largest guard formation ever in the inner sphere and as for the Lyran Regular's they are just easy to form up because they would just use whoever was at hand to form the unit as the LCAF's command most likly views the unit as cannon folder for its lyran guard at this time.
O on a side note I do believe the 5th Royal Guard is just a unit assigned to guard the archon's palace and isn't really a guard regiment as the other 4 regiments are.( more like a honor guard then a true guard regiment)
In reguards to Northwind , The highlanders never had to actually support 6 regiments on the planet with 4 of them hired out to liao u could say that Northwind supported 2 regiments and that the other 4 got supported by there employer in that case liao( who actually gave the highlanders thier first mechs?) but as in the case with Arcturus Guard the highlanders do allow outsiders to help fill in there numbers and I think any planet would be able to find six regiments of mech warriors thats only like 648 mechs.( the mech's on the other hand might be another ? Smiley )
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Takiro
Good thoughts guys. Finally did some research on military comparisons thus far and this is what I’ve found.
Number of Contingents
AFFS – 37 (5 Commands; National Training, Regional, Independent, March Militia)
CCAF – 14 (2 Forces; Confederation and Commonalty)
DCMS – 15 (5 Divisions; Draconis Guards, Mobile Warfare, Cadet Corps, District Regulars, Draconis Militia)
FWLM – 17 (2 Forces; Federal and Provincial)
LCAF – 7 (0, what about their divisions? Lyran Guard and everyone else)
TRAS – 15 (2 Divisions, Provincial Guards and Terran Regulars)
Largest BattleMech Contingent
AFFS – Avalon Hussars (26 regiments)
CCAF – Sian Commonalty Guard (19 regiments)
DCMS – Galedon, Benjamin, or Rasalhague Regulars (21 regiments)
FWLM – Marik Militia (28 regiments)
LCAF – Lyran Guard (?)
TRAS – any Provincial Guard (9 regiments)
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Rainbow 6
I would say the LCAF has two divisions, National (Royal Guard, Lyran Guard, Lyran Regulars, Arcturan Guard?) and Regional (Donegal Guard, Skye Rangers, Tamar Hussars).
Not 100% sure where the Arcturan Guards should be.
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Hessian
Quote from: lrose on July 05, 2009, 11:12:12 PM
The Lyran Guard have 41 non mech regiments that use the name Lyran. On the other hand the LG were formed shortly after the formation of the LC as an elite force composed of the best and brighest of the LC. Interesting the line in FM:LA is:
At their most powerful, the Lyran Guards numbered almost 60 regiments, but today only 10 remain. (p. 74) As the 10 represent the existing mech regiments I would be inclined to say the 60 is also referring to mech regiments.
When you look at the numbers for the other formations having about 60 Lyran Guards would work and we would not need to make up many formations-
say 55 Lyran Guards, 20 Donegal Guards, 4 Royal Guards, 15 Skye Rangers, 20 Arcturan Guard and 8 Lyran Regulars give us 122 mech regiments.
I agree with Irose's analysis here. On both accounts.
While I understand that nearly sixty 'Mech regiments is unusually high I think that there are always exceptions to a rule. Furthermore I think some variation between the Great Houses should occur. In this case that one of the Great Houses has fewer formations but at least one of this formations is unusually large.
Quote from: Takiro on July 10, 2009, 02:33:57 AM
Royal Guards will be four regiments and there will be just a single Tamar Hussars, BattleMech wise anyway.
I think this is the right decision.
Quote from: Takiro on July 10, 2009, 02:33:57 AM
One thing that might limit the size of the Arcturan Guard is the native personnel requirement. A quarter of the unit must come from Arcturus, so being 20 regiments strong means 5 regiments would be from the homeworld. Is that reasonable?? Plus I like their link to Tamar.
In my opinion it is reasonable, given that per the description in HB:HS Arcturus has still a population of ca. 1 billion despite being a shadow of its former self. Also this description informs us that Arcturan men and women are frequently found in in the ranks of the Lyran infantry forces.
Quote from: Takiro on July 10, 2009, 02:33:57 AM
Skye Rangers should be smaller but 10 regiments? Hmm, not sure. That would leave a ton of Lyran Guards.
For the Skye Rangers I would suggest a number of fifteen to twenty regiments, because in 2785 the Lyran Commonwealth as a whole and especially the Federation of Skye were much larger according to the maps in HB:HS on p. 25, 36 as well as Takiro's own map of the Human Sphere 2785
Just my two € cents...
Ciao
Hessian
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Takiro
Okay for the Lyran Regulars, this is what I've got. Six Mech regiments numbered 1st, 2nd, and 3rd with mirror formations in the 11th, 12th, and 13th. Numbers game played to confuse intel analysis and provide secret or hidden strength for the LCAF. Add six regiments to their strength with SLDF loyalists making a grand total of 12 as of 2785.
The Arcturan Guards look good at 20 regiments because some of their 21+ numbers look like new units.
So with the Skye Rangers at a strength of 15 regiments I've worked up some numbers that I think fit nicely.
LCAF (122 regiments)
Arcturan Guards (20 regiments)
Donegal Guards (20 regiments)
Lyran Guard (50 regiments)
Lyran Regulars (12 regiments)
Royal Guards (4 regiments)
Skye Rangers (15 regiments)
Tamar Hussars (1 regiment)
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Rainbow 6
Those numbers sound good too me.
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Takiro
Okay so if the numbers are good then how about military academies circa 2785.
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Rainbow 6
Right i'm at work and going off memory here but here goes:-
The Nagelring on Tharkad and The Sanglamore on Skye, both of which were built for and staffed by the SLDF, the instructors chose to stay behind when Kerensky left like the FedSuns NAMA.
Coventry Academy, Royal New Capetown, Tamar Academy of War & Pandora Military Academy which all train mechwarriors & ground forces plus aero pilots at the last two.
Somerset Academy which i assume is a former Rim Worlds Academy captured by the LCAF.
The main missing item is a Naval Academy as the Lyrans used Thorin but in the BTSD universe its still Terran. I'd suggest building one at New Kyoto as there was a large Lyran shipyard there.
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takiro
Almost forgot about Rim academies, do you think the Apollo Mechwarrior Institute (have to research the name) would serve the Commonwealth?
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Rainbow 6
Well a number of former Rim solders choose to join the LCAF as members of the Lyran Regulars or as mercenaries so it wouldn't be much of a reach to say that the academy staff would choose to do the same.
Would the LCAF trust the soldiers trained there? Possibly not but they could always be shunted into the Lyran Regulars.
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There is also the Blackjack School of Conflict.
There were almost certainly more schools - FM:LA P.35 mentions the "9 surviving schools"
There are "scores of Boot Camps" across the LC for training new recruits.
Apparently the War College of Tamar was a large school- it's loss to the clans reduced the Lyran output of ground forces by a quarter FM:LA p. 38
The Coventry Military Academy was originally known as the Coventry Academy FM:LA p. 39
For a Naval Academy I would pick Alarion, Tamar, New Kyoto or Skye -my personal preference would be Skye.
I would also put a military academy on Arcturus to train troops for the Arcturan Guards.
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Takiro
You beat me to the punch Irose. There must have been some sort of "Lyran" academy during the Star League era and Arcturus would be a good place for it. Other candidates for military academies Donegal, Furillo, and Alarion as they are province capitals. And we need a naval school somewhere. I was thinking along the Draconis border for some reason.
Blackjack should also be around.
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Rainbow 6
Both the ex-Star League acadamies can train naval personel(although Sanglamore lost the ability during the SWars) and Pandora has a naval programme according to FM:LA.
I be surprised if Tamar didn't have a naval programme given its size.
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Takiro
Right Six but I was speaking of a stand alone premier naval academy like the Armstrong Flight Academy (Galax) will become for the Federated Suns a role we have vested in the Federated Naval Institute (FNI) on Layover in 2785. Eventually the Alarion Naval Academy (ANA) for the Lyran Alliance will assume this role in 3058. In canon it looks as though the Flight Academy of Thorin replaced whatever we will come up with during the 2nd Succession War (2832). So we are looking for its predecessor.
According to TRO2800 these star systems have major naval installations which may qualify them as good spots for such a facility. Alarion (still young and growing would say no), Alexandria, Dell (many of its yards are being moved to Alarion at this time - might be a good spot here), Donegal, Furillo, Gibbs, Hesperus (not a good spot being a former shared world), Kimball II, New Kyoto (not a big fan of this spot either), Skye (because of the Sanglamore I doubt it has this academy), Sudeten, Summer, Tamar, Tharkad, and Yed Posterior.
Looking at the timing of the established of the Thorin Academy I'd say this one wasn't threatened till the 2nd Succession War with conquest. Sure it may have been raid and it maybe near the border but it should remain in Commonwealth hands until the start of the 2nd War hence the building of Thorin.
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rainbow 6
Not near my books(another 12 hour night shift Cry) but from memory Dell might be the best bet as we know from cannon that the Chippewa factory gets destroyed, just not sure of the date.
Just looked in irose's factory thread the Chip factory is destroyed in 2805 is this practical for us?
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Quote from: Rainbow 6 on July 14, 2009, 10:07:09 PM
Not near my books(another 12 hour night shift Cry) but from memory Dell might be the best bet as we know from cannon that the Chippewa factory gets destroyed, just not sure of the date.
Just looked in irose's factory thread the Chip factory is destroyed in 2805 is this practical for us?
Well there's a contradiction in the source material- some material said that the Dell factory was relocated to Alarion at the start of the 1st SW. (HBHS, HSSB) Other material (TR3025, TR3039) says the Dell Factory was destroyed in 2805 and a new factory built later in the 3rd SW at Alarion. Personally I like the first scenario where the factory was relocated- the revisions that have a lot of factories being built during the 3rd SW doesn't really match up with the BT universe where tech is rapidly declining and people can't figure out how to repair or build mechs.
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Takiro
Military Academies for the Lyran Commonwealth summarized up till now.
Star League-Commonwealth facilities
The Nagelring (Tharkad)
The Sanglamore (Skye)
Lyran Also rans from canon
Tamar Academy of War
Coventry Academy
Royal New Capetown
Pandora Military Academy
Blackjack School of Conflict
Captured RWR facilities
Apollo Mechwarrior Institute
Somerset Academy
BTSD Additions
Lyran Military Academy during the Star League era (Arcturus)
Premier Naval Academy (New Kyoto, Dell, Alexandria, Gibbs, Sudeten, Summer, Yed Posterior along with the other candidates below remain. I took systems with academies out of the running already. Also I’m thinking the unknown naval academy should be close to Thorin for ease of relocation.)
Other Candidates
Donegal, Furillo, and Alarion are province capitals without academies thus far
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Ice Hellion
Quote from: Takiro on July 14, 2009, 02:45:50 AM
Almost forgot about Rim academies, do you think the Apollo Mechwarrior Institute (have to research the name) would serve the Commonwealth?
Probably but I think the school would be watched over by all kinds of watchmen (official and unofficial) and I think the soldiers from there would be split in different units to avoid them being together.
What about their opportunities to climb the ranks?
I would say that for now they are limited but no one would tell that officially.
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Takiro
Ok, guys how is this on academies?
Lyran Military College (Arcturus) – The first national military school established by the Commonwealth has seen its fortunes ebb and flow with time. Until the Lyran capital was moved to Tharkad it served as the nation’s premier military institute. Displaced along with its homeworld Arcturus its prominence diminished until the dawn of the Star League. While some thought the creation of the Star League would eliminate the LMC altogether it did much to restore its place in the Commonwealth’s military education system. According to some the facility became the true center of Lyran defense enabling House Steiner to maintain its own private military without a complete reliance on the SLDF. The school has had many critics throughout its existence. Many accused the facility of promoting failed “Social Generals†and calls for the LMC to be shutdown continue. The collapse of the Star League and the return of the Nagelring have once again placed its position in jeopardy. Regardless of its up and down place in the LCAF the Arcturan Guards have always drawn heavily from the LMC.
Premier Naval Academy - I'm down to two contenders. New Kyoto and Dell. Both are close to the border of hostile neighbors but never fell and were damaged in raids. On New Kyoto side is closer location to Thorin which could ease such a move but the information on the Bolson Shipyards seems to indicate a civilian facility rather than a military one. Dell on the other hand seems to be were Alarion got its naval mojo from and could have been a major military shipyards perhaps the Commonwealth's biggest. Also opening a Flight Academy on Thorin also serves as a change over from naval power to aerospace superiority seen during the Succession War. Even though it is located further away from Thorin I might back Dell more then New Kyoto. Unless we do an academy at each. Be interesting if we had two seperate academies with differing philosopshies on teaching.
Donegal - Like the LMC on Arcturus I'm thinking an academy could exist on Donegal. Established during the Protectorate of Donegal it may have been completely shutdown or converted to Planetary Academy status. When was the Nagelring founded along this line of thought? After the SL was formed I think this institution may have been restored giving the LCAF another source of recruits.
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Ice Hellion
Quote from: Takiro on July 19, 2009, 03:06:24 PM
When was the Nagelring founded along this line of thought? After the SL was formed I think this institution may have been restored giving the LCAF another source of recruits.
The Nagelring was founded by the SLDF but they say that it is the oldest military school in the entire Alliance.
Quote from: Takiro on July 19, 2009, 03:06:24 PM
Also opening a Flight Academy on Thorin also serves as a change over from naval power to aerospace superiority seen during the Succession War.
I do not understand this part Sad
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Rainbow 6
Quote from: Ice Hellion on July 19, 2009, 04:30:01 PM
The Nagelring was founded by the SLDF but they say that it is the oldest military school in the entire Alliance.
I do not understand this part Sad
So the Nagelring was probably the Commonwealths academy for state troops whilst each provence had one.
As the SW drags on the fleets are destroyed and ASF/dropships become the dominate space warfare branch.
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Takiro
Right Six, I would contend that each of the Commonwealth's founding states (Donegal Protectorate, Skye Federation, and the Tamar Pact) had their own military academies. The Tamar Pact was established in 2235, the Federation of Skye in 2299, and the Protectorate of Donegal in 2314. The Lyran state was founded in 2341 meaning each of these proto-states had ample time to create their own institutions.
I still don't have a date specific for the establishment of the Nagelring but I'd assume it was a Steiner creation cause of the name. Likely it was established after the capital was moved to Tharkad in 2407. It along with the Sanglamore became Star League facilities. However the blurb that mentions the Nagelring is the oldest academy in the Commonwealth must mean the original Skye and Tamar academies, which had to exist IMO, were dissolved likely after their revolt in the early 2500s. So perhaps the Sanglamore and the Tamar Academy of War are new reborn institutions founded after the Civil War.
Some thoughts on the also rans of the Lyran military education system. I believe Irose and I spoke about having the Blackjack School of Conflict founded during the SL era by a Lyran non-conformist. Someone who had a little of problems with Commonwealth authorities. I see the Military Academy of Somerset being a new Lyran facility established to tap into assimilated Rim Worlders. It is a small insitution so that might be acceptable. I don't see the Commonwealth utilizing the Apollo Military Institute of the Rim Worlds Republic. Just too many non Lyran traditions there.
I changed the Lyran Military College to the Arcturan Military College. Sounds better and more Commonwealth like to me. I decided on Dell as the Naval Institute locale, Tamar has a tradition of military service so that was another plus in putting the Academy there. The Defense Center of Donegal is the original Protectorate Military Academy which like Arcturus saw its role grow during the SL era.
Furillo and Alarion also remain as Province capitals without military academies if you guys have any ideas or approve of more facilities.
Military Academies
The Nagelring (Tharkad)
The Sanglamore (Skye)
Tamar Academy of War (Tamar)
Coventry Academy (Coventry)
Royal New Capetown Military Academy (New Capetown)
Pandora College of Military Sciences (Pandora)
Blackjack School of Conflict (Blackjack)
Military Academy of Somerset (Somerset)
Arcturan Military College (Arcturus)
Dell Naval Institute (Dell)
Defense Center of Donegal (Donegal)
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Rainbow 6
The military acadamies sound right to me, will the boot camps be mentioned in this section as well?
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Takiro
Yuppers, the Boot Camps are the secondary method of Lyran military education.
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Ice Hellion
Quote from: Takiro on July 19, 2009, 09:43:14 PM
Right Six, I would contend that each of the Commonwealth's founding states (Donegal Protectorate, Skye Federation, and the Tamar Pact) had their own military academies. The Tamar Pact was established in 2235, the Federation of Skye in 2299, and the Protectorate of Donegal in 2314. The Lyran state was founded in 2341 meaning each of these proto-states had ample time to create their own institutions.
I still don't have a date specific for the establishment of the Nagelring but I'd assume it was a Steiner creation cause of the name. Likely it was established after the capital was moved to Tharkad in 2407. It along with the Sanglamore became Star League facilities.
This goes against what is written in House Steiner Sourcebook, the Lyran Alliance Field Manual and the Handbook House Steiner.
You can find in all three of them that Nagelring is the oldest military academy in the Commonwealth/Alliance and that it was founded by the SLDF.
Maybe we could insist a bit more on the use of mercenaries and boot camps.
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Takiro
So the SLDF was established when? 2570s right? That means the other academies were founded afterwards. Perhaps part of a radical reform project the Archon signed off on.
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Rainbow 6
It would explain the lack of an academy on Arcturus & Donegal.
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Takiro
Well remember those entries that Ice is referring to begin in 3025. Donegal and Arcturus could be the oldest right now but their disbandment would cause the Nagelring to become the oldest.
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Rainbow 6
Disbandment or the Dracs dropping a nuke on each of them Wink
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Or maybe the Nagelring was like Albion in the FS- an FS facility designated as an official SLDF military academy. The SLSB says that Sanglamore, the Nagelring & Albion were the "only accredited SLDF military academies built outside the Terran Hegemony" (p. 109) Note this claims the SL built Albion, even though other sources say it was originally a FS academy.
The HSSB says the Nagelring "was originally an official Star League Academy" P.122
FM:LA and HBHS only say the the Nagelring was "once an SLDF training facility"
So with a little handwaving, the Nagelring can be the premier LC academy that was founded when Tharkad became the capital of the Commonwealth and that the SL later designated it an official SLDF academy. Combine that with the destruction of the other LC academies - such as Arcturus, Tamar, Donegal etc during the SWs, the Nagelring becomes the oldest LC academy in 3025.
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Takiro
Hey gang I'm still working on this as we speak. Been trying to delve into a overview for the LCAF but I'm not sure if we have enough yet. The academies I think are all set and Irose's last suggestion sounds fine by me. We have plenty of angles on the Arcturan Guard (the unofficial unit of Tamar), the Tamar Hussars (one of the few noble forces to be considered line), the Lyran Regulars (the hidden units of the LCAF), and the Royal Guards (just the four regiments of the Archon's elite).
About the Lyran Guard being the primary contingent of the LCAF. I think I'm fine with the formation being so large but is it so snotty. I mean really I see this as being the core of the traditional Lyran forces embracing the contraversial practices (Social General). They have been hard to break especially since some Archon's favor such practices like the one before Jennifer. Of course this isn't the rule as perhaps some commands are quite capable but on the whole I think they some up what it means to be a Lyran soldier especially outside the Star League philosophy. I see a possible native backlash in their ranks to such new ideas.
I'd also like to get more thoughts on the Skye Rangers. Why wasn't this unit disbanded after the Civil War like the Tamar unit we guess at may have been? Their relationship to the Steiners? Especially since the day of rage during the Reunification War. To the nearby Terrans? Certainly Skye and Terra have had close relations as I can think of at least one occasion where they (Royal families) intermarried. Is this why the Commonwealth almost disbanded during the League?
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Ice Hellion
Okay for the Lyran Guards.
As for the Skye Rangers, what about politics? You know showing to the people of Skye that "their" soldiers stand with the Lyran Commonwealth (even if it is not totally true) and such.
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Takiro
Free Skye
When did this organization take root?
Does it date back to Marsden Coup in 2375?
Skye Rangers
Originally the army of the Federation of Skye according to FM LA pg 99 with hundreds of years history. My question is still how?? Why wasn't this unit disbanded? In 2375 Robert Marsden staged a coup to seize control of the Commonwealth. One of the worlds that resisted was Skye and yet the Rangers avoided oblivion. The Lyran Civil War which began in 2501 and lasted to 2505 is a second reason to finish their history long before now but didn’t happen. Why? Even more puzzling is the fact that Tamar had more of a militant philosophy and their forces didn’t survive (although my research indicates that the Tamar Tigers were formed before the Civil War).
Territorial Losses
One area of research that came back negative as the Federation of Skye lost no founding worlds to either the Draconis Combine to Free Worlds League during the Age of War.
House Lestrade
Rose to power in 2506 after the Lyran Civil War when they were awarded title to Skye by Archon Robert Steiner for loyal service. In 2591 their unconditional fidelity came to an end with the ‘Day of Rage’.
Failed Dissolution
During the Star League era, 2643 to be exact, the Decentralist Movement nearly dissolved the Commonwealth which was thought to be unnecessary in this new age of peace. Any connection to Skye?
Marriage to the Camerons?
SLSB pg 25 - 2370s Lord Raymond the fourth Director-General of the Hegemony married Katherine McQuiston. Prior to this, relations between Skye and Terra had been cool (the Motherine Doctrine and the Symra Ambush) but many hoped that would change. However the couple was soon involved in a scandal when the neglected wife turned to Raymond’s brother Brian for attention. The affair was discovered shortly before Raymond’s death and nearly ended the Cameron dynasty. However, Brian Cameron beat the charges and became the fifth Director. In 2399 he married Katherine McQuiston.
SLSB pg 27 – The ties between the Hegemony and the Lyran Commonwealth had always been close, and her brother’s (Lady Judith) to one of the Commonwealth’s famous McQuistons had made that bond even stronger.
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Quote from: Takiro on August 01, 2009, 10:34:57 PM
Free Skye
When did this organization take root?
Does it date back to Marsden Coup in 2375?
Can't find anything specific but I figure they are more recent - late 3rd SW maybe.
Quote
Skye Rangers
Originally the army of the Federation of Skye according to FM LA pg 99 with hundreds of years history. My question is still how?? Why wasn't this unit disbanded? In 2375 Robert Marsden staged a coup to seize control of the Commonwealth. One of the worlds that resisted was Skye and yet the Rangers avoided oblivion. The Lyran Civil War which began in 2501 and lasted to 2505 is a second reason to finish their history long before now but didn’t happen. Why? Even more puzzling is the fact that Tamar had more of a militant philosophy and their forces didn’t survive (although my research indicates that the Tamar Tigers were formed before the Civil War).
Maybe the Skye Rangers largely sided with Robert Marsden and not the Duke of Skye- HSSB p. 11 says the Marsden had many contacts in the military and they formed a core of an army loyal to him. Also he could have rebuilt the Rangers as a PR move to try and foster good will with the Federation of Skye.
Also in 2471 Archon Michael Steiner married Regina McQuiston, last of the McQuiston Line which would help tie Skye to the Steiners- so maybe the Rangers sided with Robert Steiner during the Civil War.
Interestingly HSSB p. 26 mentions that the Duke of Skye's "house units" fought against Steiner in the Civil War- maybe these house units were different from the Rangers. It also says that units from Tamar fought against the Robert- maybe the Tamar forces were the equivalent of the Rangers and they were disbanded after the war as a result of fighting against the Archon.
The Tamar Tigers (originally the Tamar Hussars) first received mechs in 2465 HSSB p. 45
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FirstStarLord
Quote from: lrose on August 02, 2009, 01:22:42 AM
Interestingly HSSB p. 26 mentions that the Duke of Skye's "house units" fought against Steiner in the Civil War- maybe these house units were different from the Rangers. It also says that units from Tamar fought against the Robert- maybe the Tamar forces were the equivalent of the Rangers and they were disbanded after the war as a result of fighting against the Archon.
You mean like the Duke's Own Huscarls? I remember them being mentioned in Operation: Audacity. By the 3050's they were an infantry unit, but back in the day they might have had mechs.
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Takiro
Interesting guys. I've never heard of that unit before FSL. Huscarls make sense though since it means House Guards.
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Ice Hellion
Quote from: lrose on August 02, 2009, 01:22:42 AM
Can't find anything specific but I figure they are more recent - late 3rd SW maybe.
But this does not mean that the Lyran Commonwealth should not look closely at the "feelings" of the Skye people (which always seemed quite proud of their history and such).
Quote from: lrose on August 02, 2009, 01:22:42 AM
Maybe the Skye Rangers largely sided with Robert Marsden and not the Duke of Skye- HSSB p. 11 says the Marsden had many contacts in the military and they formed a core of an army loyal to him. Also he could have rebuilt the Rangers as a PR move to try and foster good will with the Federation of Skye.
A possible explanation.
Quote from: FirstStarLord on August 02, 2009, 02:30:03 AM
You mean like the Duke's Own Huscarls? I remember them being mentioned in Operation: Audacity. By the 3050's they were an infantry unit, but back in the day they might have had mechs.
Could you be more specific as I never read that book?
Thanks.
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FirstStarLord
Quote from: Ice Hellion on August 02, 2009, 04:18:44 PM
Could you be more specific as I never read that book?
Thanks.
We don't know too much about them. It was stated in the book that elements of the Huscarls (a battalion of infantry) were supporting a Lyran Marshal who plotted to capture Hesperus II and use its factories to support the moribund Free Skye movement. The Grey Death Legion were on Hesperus at that time, and they uncovered the plot and defeated the Marshal and his rebel forces (which consisted of elements from a number of commands in the Skye Rangers and the Lyran Guards).
The Huscarls are said in the text to be the Duke of Skye's personal guard.
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Ice hellion
If we go on with Takiro's explanation, they were on the wrong side two times.
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Takiro
How is this for basic notes of the Tamar Tigers.
Tamar Hussars (1 regiment)
Overview: The Hussars are the only noble force in the Lyran Commonwealth, thanks to the unique position of Tamar, who are considered a line unit. The guardians of the Tamar Pact have ancient ties to the region that predate the Lyran nation. The Ducal Guard has always been well equipped first receiving BattleMechs in 2465. With a reputation for martial excellence the Hussars were reformed by the Kelswa family in the wake of the Lyran Civil War (circa 2506). As the only Tamar unit to survive this war their role and notoriety expanded. They saw action in the Reunification War and were involved in Viola Steiner’s “Day of Rageâ€. It was during the Star League era that the Hussars took on their modern character. As the Archon forbid noble troops from having any heavy ‘Mechs they became experts in swift and mobile warfare. Their flamboyant and daring characters both in and out of battle earned them the moniker, the Tamar Tigers. This well trained light force is currently commanded by Duke Graham Kelswa of Carse.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Tamar Hussars (Tamar Tigers)
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Ice Hellion
Quote from: Takiro on August 05, 2009, 08:25:33 PM
The Hussars are the only noble force in the Lyran Commonwealth,
[...] As the Archon forbid noble troops from having any heavy ‘Mechs
Aren't those two sentences in contradiction?
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Takiro
No. Huh Granted, it might look a tad bit confusing but remember these are notes for an overview.
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Quote from: Ice Hellion on August 05, 2009, 08:58:05 PM
Aren't those two sentences in contradiction?
No- the Hussars are the only noble force in the LC and they are limited to mechs of light or medium weight only.
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Ice Hellion
So the interdiction in Heavy 'Mechs would be before the banishment of all Noble Forces?
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Quote from: Ice Hellion on August 06, 2009, 06:34:09 PM
So the interdiction in Heavy 'Mechs would be before the banishment of all Noble Forces?
Except that noble forces (despite the best efforts of some Archons) have never been total removed from the LC. There are several references to them in different books. (This is common in BT- sweeping generalizations or decrees are presented in the books but then the details contradict those statements). The best is the Tamar Tigers who are repeatedly said to be the private army of the Duke of Tamar, have existed since the 2400s and continue to exist at the start of the 1st SW.
The Hussars are part of the private army of the Dukes of Tamar. Archon (whoever- I don't have my books in front of me to check) decreed that no private army could deploy heavy or assault mechs- probably due to that LCAF mentality that any mech below 60 tons is just a toy and not worth noticing. As a result the Tamar Tigers have been forced to use light and medium mechs exclusively.
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Ice Hellion
I know that the Hussars are said to be a private army but I think they are also mercenaries, meaning that the only way for the Duke of Tamar to find a way around the decree was to use them as mercs...
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Quote from: Ice Hellion on August 08, 2009, 04:16:55 PM
I know that the Hussars are said to be a private army but I think they are also mercenaries, meaning that the only way for the Duke of Tamar to find a way around the decree was to use them as mercs...
That's the Stealthy Tigers- who were formed later in the SW (2874) and were technically mercs who signed a year by year contract with the LCAF so that the duke of Tamar could "legally buy them much heavier mechs then he could for any of his private mech regiments" HSSB p. 66
Interestingly this quote implies the Duke of Tamar had other private mech regiments during the 3rd SW era.
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Takiro
Quote from: lrose on August 09, 2009, 01:15:24 AM
Interestingly this quote implies the Duke of Tamar had other private mech regiments during the 3rd SW era.
That would be the Tamar Jaegers whom I would eventually like to utilize especially with the theme that Tokage came up with.
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Takiro
Quote from: lrose on April 09, 2009, 04:00:18 PM
General Notes:
2470s/80s mechs were first aquired byLC nobility HSSB p. 25
2506 Robert Steiner orders the Nobilities House troops to be placed under control of the LCAF. HSSB p. 27
Following amendment of 2752 increasing size of the House militaries the LCAF activated 3 mothballed regiments and created 10 new ones. LC Nobility also sought to increase their own private military forces at this time. HSSB p. 37 HBHS p. 32
During reign of Duke Robert Steiner private armies limited in the size of the mechs they could field. HSSB p. 45
Quote from: lrose on August 06, 2009, 06:47:25 PM
The Hussars are part of the private army of the Dukes of Tamar. Archon (whoever- I don't have my books in front of me to check) decreed that no private army could deploy heavy or assault mechs- probably due to that LCAF mentality that any mech below 60 tons is just a toy and not worth noticing. As a result the Tamar Tigers have been forced to use light and medium mechs exclusively.
Hey Irose I was just thinking about the above statement a little more. Do you think that most nobles said the heck with it after the Archon's actions? It would be another explanation why there aren't any more Line Noble Forces in the LCAF.
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Quote from: Takiro on August 09, 2009, 02:00:37 PM
Hey Irose I was just thinking about the above statement a little more. Do you think that most nobles said the heck with it after the Archon's actions? It would be another explanation why there aren't any more Line Noble Forces in the LCAF.
That or they did a cost/benefits analysis and decided it wasn't worth the expense.
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Rainbow 6
Quote from: lrose on August 09, 2009, 04:56:55 PM
That or they did a cost/benefits analysis and decided it wasn't worth the expense.
If they did i'd assume they'll change there feelings once the succession war kicks off and their property starts getting destroyed.
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ice Hellion
Thanks for the explanations.
Quote from: lrose on August 09, 2009, 04:56:55 PM
That or they did a cost/benefits analysis and decided it wasn't worth the expense.
So Lyran. Tongue
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Quote from: Rainbow 6 on August 09, 2009, 06:07:02 PM
If they did i'd assume they'll change there feelings once the succession war kicks off and their property starts getting destroyed.
That's why you carry insurance that protects against loss to natural disaster or war....
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Takiro
Until your insurance starts going bankrupt. Wink
I was speaking to the Lyran mindset. Lyrans want a big Mechs and their Archon says they can't have them. So why get Mechs at all then. The directive might dissuade nobles for their private forces at least the bulk of them, maybe they prefer aerospace fighters or conventional assets like armor or infantry.
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FirstStarLord
Quote from: Takiro on August 09, 2009, 07:29:11 PM
Until your insurance starts going bankrupt. Wink
I was speaking to the Lyran mindset. Lyrans want a big Mechs and their Archon says they can't have them. So why get Mechs at all then. The directive might dissuade nobles for their private forces at least the bulk of them, maybe they prefer aerospace fighters or conventional assets like armor or infantry.
No one really expected the 1st Succession War to be as bad as it was, and as I has said earlier, the Lyrans were the least enthusiastic about entering it. So it follows that the nobles did not have the large private armies found in some other realms (even in the Combine they are somewhat common). I'd expect the big traditional noble families from Skye and Tamar to have a regiment or two of household troops composed of infantry and armor with a few lances of mech and artillery in support, but not much else. The Protectorate of Donegal, being poorer and not as exposed as the other parts of the realm, had even less.
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Ice Hellion
Quote from: Takiro on August 09, 2009, 07:29:11 PM
Until your insurance starts going bankrupt. Wink
We did it: we created a new financial crisis (who said BattleTech is not realistic Tongue).
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Takiro
Okay guys been working on the overview here and the Rim Protectorate, here is the Lyran Regulars overview. Let me know what you think.
Lyran Regulars (12 regiments)
Overview: As the Star League gradually disintegrated a need within the LCAF was recognized by the High Command. The usefulness of unconventional forces was becoming apparent as the 28th century wore on. Assembling an ad hoc brigade named the Lyran Regulars from less than traditional sources was their solution. These scoundrels without proper pedigree drew the ire of the Commonwealth’s military establishment who considered them mercenaries at best. During the Hidden Wars they drew difficult assignments which were undertaken without support. Heavily influenced by the SLDF the Regulars used a mixture of arms to achieve battlefield success. This in turn has won them a measure of respect from the Lyran authorities who still have trouble crediting these inferior troops.
Originally two separate divisions (1st, 2nd, 3rd and 11th, 12th, 13th) which included BattleMechs, armor, and infantry were created to mirror each other. Using time honored techniques of misdirection and stealth these units effectively camouflaged themselves sometimes even as Lyran Guards. In addition to a mirrored deployment system which often plays with the Regulars numerical designations, units frequently suffer high casualty rates thanks to their dangerous assignments which require constant reorganization. This created a further patchwork which foreign intelligence agencies still have trouble deciphering. As a result the location, strengths, and identities of the Lyran Regulars are a challenging group to keep track of at all times.
Recently the Lyran Regulars have doubled in size and there are future plans for further expansion. This growth caused by the addition of Star League and Rim Republic veterans has allowed them to field 12 BattleMech regiments supported by conventional forces. By pairing these new units in much the same fashion as the original formations the Regulars have managed to retain their mirrored deployment system. Many fear that this organizational feature may be in jeopardy thanks to the speed of future enlargement in an uncertain time. Unfortunately the maintenance needs for these work horse units have not been met by the High Command. As a result some of their high tech equipment has already fallen into disrepair.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Lyran Regulars (The Boomers), 2nd Lyran Regulars (?), 3rd Lyran Regulars (The Bee Squishers? – this nickname has no specific date so we could use it), 4th Lyran Regulars (Tropic Lightning – remnants of SLDF 68th Infantry aka the Thai Militia), 6th Lyran Regulars (The Odessa Regulars – remnants of SLDF 63rd Mechanized Infantry Division, possible ties to the Terrans who wish to safeguard hidden SL facility , if the Odessa Regulars are keeping the secret for the Star League and were on planet at the start of the succession war then they could have been in and around the planetary capital which was nuked by a DCMS task force from orbit according to the Archers Avengers novel set on Odessa, taking there secret to their graves), 10th Lyran Regulars (The Stinging Barflies – remnants of SLDF 18th Infantry Division who interestingly enough were based in the RWR), 11th Lyran Regulars (The Hammers), 12th Lyran Regulars (?), 13th Lyran Regulars (?), 14th Lyran Regulars (The Sakhalin Regulars - remnants of SLDF 101st Mechanized Infantry Division who were stationed in the CC, so I was thinking about a possible tie in with the Capellan Sakhalin), 16th Lyran Regulars (The Apache Division - remnants of SLDF 368th BattleMech Division), 20th Lyran Regulars (The York Regulars – Star League Loyalist Regiment)
Future Units: 5th Lyran Regulars (Ferris Wolverines – see Merc Guild and canon ComStar ruling), 7th Lyran Regulars (New Delhi Lancers or Fighting Seventh – formed early in the canon 1st SW), 8th Lyran Regulars (Mad Hatters – formed early in the canon 1st SW), 9th Lyran Regulars (Karilon Magicians – Mechwarrior Brotherhood from the RWR joined LC during canon 1st SW) [obviously since these formations came into being during the extreme duress of the SW a dedicated mirror unit will not be made]
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Ice Hellion
I like them even if they might be too tactically advanced for the common Lyran General Cheesy
For nicknames, I guess the ? are for those without official ones.
There seems to be no pattern in their naming.
What about naming one after a Chameleon or a similar beast?
This would match their camouflage abilities (I will check the Handbooks to see if I find anything).
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Takiro
Quote from: Ice Hellion on August 16, 2009, 08:17:54 PM
What about naming one after a Chameleon or a similar beast?
This would match their camouflage abilities (I will check the Handbooks to see if I find anything).
Not a bad idea Ice and yes question marks are for units I don't have established or suggested nicknames for. The Regulars seem to be nicknamed for their homeworld or a previous unit (merc or SLDF) name.
Quote from: Ice Hellion on August 16, 2009, 08:17:54 PM
I like them even if they might be too tactically advanced for the common Lyran General Cheesy
You might enjoy these guys more then Ice. Wink
Royal Guards (4 regiments)
Overview: The Royal Guards are the single most prestigious contingent in the entire LCAF. The formation dates back to 2375 when Archon Basileus Robert Marsden established the unit as his personal guard. Since that time only the very best Lyran soldiers have qualified for this premier posting. The evolving nature of the Commonwealth led to increasing criticism that appointments were politically motivated rather then being militarily based. National allegiance, the ability to follow orders, and most of all loyalty to the Archon has always been paramount. While some deride the Royal Guard for their lack of battlefield skill none doubt their fanatical devotion to the Lyran cause. Also they are considered to be the best equipped unit of the House militaries even though they currently lack combat experience. The First, Second, and Third traditionally carry out garrison, parade, and ceremonial duties while the Fourth is the principal active service unit. An honorary Fifth Royal Guard was created by Archon Craig Steiner in 2529 to carry out “Guardian Duty†in the Lyran Throne Room. Never a true regiment the Pride of the Archon is the very pinnacle for a Lyran mechwarrior to achieve.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Royal Guards (The Pride of Donegal), 2nd Royal Guards (The Pride of Skye), 3rd Royal Guards (The Pride of Tamar), 4th Royal Guards (The Pride of the Commonwealth)
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Quote from: Takiro on August 16, 2009, 09:25:34 PM
An honorary Fifth Royal Guard was created by Archon Craig Steiner in 2529 to carry out “Guardian Duty†in the Lyran Throne Room. Never a true regiment the Pride of the Archon is the very pinnacle for a Lyran mechwarrior to achieve.
Is it bad that the above made me think of a 5th Column?
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Takiro
Lol, that was not the intention my friend. Luckily these are just notes. How did that happen?
I was thinking btw of a future plan for the Royal Guard especially during the Succession War. How about bringing the 5th to full status as a ceremonial unit and letting the 2nd and 3rd go on active service? You'd have 3/5s of the Guard available for action then. Thoughts??
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Quote from: Takiro on August 17, 2009, 01:26:20 AM
Lol, that was not the intention my friend. Luckily these are just notes. How did that happen?
I was thinking btw of a future plan for the Royal Guard especially during the Succession War. How about bringing the 5th to full status as a ceremonial unit and letting the 2nd and 3rd go on active service? You'd have 3/5s of the Guard available for action then. Thoughts??
I don't really like the idea of the 5th- I really think it was just a typo in the book and rather then coming up with complicated reasons to explain this we should just day it's a mistake and stick with the 4 regiments we have,
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Takiro
You know me and how I try to incorporate every tidbit of old text. Wink I like the honor guard assignment as the origin of the 5th and the future plans were just that.
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Takiro
Okay gang how is this?
Skye Rangers (15 regiments)
Overview: The Skye Rangers are survivors whose origins date back to the turn of the twentieth fourth century. Originally the army of the Federation of Skye this unit has compiled hundreds of years of military traditions. Over this time these brave warriors have squared off against forces from the Draconis Combine, the Free Worlds League, and even the Terran Hegemony with a good deal of success. Prior to the 2370s relations between Skye and Terra had been cool at best thanks the Mother Doctrine and the Symra Ambush. That began to change when Lord Raymond the fourth Director-General of the Hegemony married Katherine McQuiston. The couple was soon involved in a scandal when a neglected Katherine turned to Raymond’s brother Brian for attention. The affair was discovered shortly before Raymond’s death nearly ended the Cameron dynasty and hopes for renewed ties. However, Brian Cameron beat the charges and became the fifth Director. In 2399 he married Katherine McQuiston and ties between the Hegemony and Skye have been close ever since.
Their adversaries have not been confined to foreign nationals but also include domestic opponents. When Robert Marsden staged a military coup in 2375 to seize control of the Commonwealth most of the Rangers backed him. Marsden had built many contacts within the Skye Rangers since the establishment of the Lyran Commonwealth. They formed a core of an army loyal to him while a few Rangers futility resisted on Skye this long overdue move towards order. Afterwards the Rangers were rebuilt by a grateful Archon Basileus although some accuse “the Crusher†of playing politics. Restoring the Rangers as a public relations move to try and foster good will on Skye. In 2471 Archon Michael Steiner married Regina McQuiston, last of the McQuiston line, which helped tie Skye and its Rangers to House Steiner. The Lyran Civil War which began in 2501 and lasted to 2505 split the contingent in much the same way. Thanks to the backing of these loyal Skye Rangers the Archon managed to defeat his opponents once again. As a result Robert Steiner spared the unit from complete dissolution a fate which befell Tamar’s army who had a well deserved martial reputation.
House Lestrade was awarded title to Skye following the Civil War by Archon Robert Steiner for loyal service. While the Duke's Own Huscarls, an infantry unit, serve as the Duke of Skye's personal guard the Skye Rangers have formed a close bond with their new liege. Their unconditional fidelity to House Steiner would be tested in 2591 by the ‘Day of Rage’. This unjust attack by Archon Viola Steiner upon her own people during the Reunification War has strained relations between the unit and the Archon since. In 2643 the Decentralist Movement, which had widespread support in Skye, nearly dissolved the Commonwealth. Many Skye Rangers left the LCAF to serve General Kerensky during the Amaris Coup and sympathies to the Last Cameron remain to this day. Despite these feelings the Rangers remain a major bulwark of the Lyran military.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 3rd Skye Rangers, 4th Skye Rangers, 10th Skye Rangers, 25th Skye Rangers, plus eleven (11) more commands which are not in numerical order (not the 17th or 22nd).
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Ice Hellion
The only animal I could find was on the Davion Handbook Sad
And you are right, these Royal Guards are perfect Wink
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Takiro
Arcturan Guards (20 regiments)
Overview: Initially an armor and infantry force established in 2341 to defend the first Lyran capital the Arcturan Guard drew its membership directly from the residents of that world. However, their role soon changed as Arcturus steadily declined in prominence following the government’s move to Tharkad in 2407. Today only a quarter of their forces come from Arcturus via official mandate. Following the Lyran Civil War the Guard became the unofficial unit of the Tamar Pact which the planet was originally a part of. Following the disbandment of the old Tamar military apparatus many natives began requesting billets here. While much has changed since that time, the introduction of the BattleMech for instance, the Guard still remains a premier formation in the Commonwealth military. Since its foundation the unit has seen service in every conflict and contributed significantly to the defense of the nation.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Arcturan Guard (?), 2nd Arcturan Guard (?), 3rd Arcturan Guard (?), 4th Arcturan Guard (?), 5th Arcturan Guard (?), 6th Arcturan Guard (?), 7th Arcturan Guard (?), 8th Arcturan Guard (?), 9th Arcturan Guard (?), 10th Arcturan Guard (?), 11th Arcturan Guard (The Golden Lions), 12th Arcturan Guard (?), 13th Arcturan Guard (?), 14th Arcturan Guard (?), 15th Arcturan Guard (Stavlos Tigers), 16th Arcturan Guard (?), 17th Arcturan Guard (Kezla Rams), 18th Arcturan Guard (?), 19th Arcturan Guard (Puma), 20th Arcturan Guard (White Bears of Uther) [two nicknames will be the Arcturan Northern Nomads and Tharkan Woodsmen see HSSB p. 69 - 23rd Arcturan Guards aka the Frost Giants]
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Takiro
Donegal Guards (20 regiments)
Overview: This unit was founded by the Protectorate of Donegal in 2314 shortly after the establishment of that early interstellar state. Today the Guards are a mainstay of the Lyran military containing one hundred regiments, twenty of which are BattleMech forces. As they hail from the Commonwealth’s central state the Guard is closely tied to the Lyran ruling house. While many don’t consider them as fanatical as the Royal or Lyran Guard they are renowned for their determination to overcome any obstacles which impede their orders. Often the High Command will assign the Donegal Guard to a campaign as a demonstration of the Lyran will to win. They remain closely associated with House Steiner and the Protectorate of Donegal where they are frequently stationed. Roaming the vast frontiers of the Protectorate as well as the Commonwealth’s interior the the Donegal Guard have beaten their fair share of foreign and domestic enemies. Sharing a border with the Free Worlds League and the Periphery has resulted in their primary opposition coming in the form of Marik Regulars and Pirates. The Twentieth which is the most recent addition to the Guard, formerly a Star League Loyalist Regiment, has experienced the horrors of the Amaris Coup.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Donegal Guard (?), 2nd Donegal Guard (Unwearied Second), 3rd Donegal Guard (Justice Brigade), 4th Donegal Guard (?), 5th Donegal Guard (Bulldogs), 6th Donegal Guard (White Hawks), 7th Donegal Guards (Earthquakers), 8th Donegal Guards (?), 9th Donegal Guards (?), 10th Donegal Guard (Lilly’s Lancers), 11th Donegal Guard (The Push Me Pull Yours Regiment), 12th Donegal Guard (Crocodiles?), 13th Donegal Guard (?), 14th Donegal Guard (?), 15th Donegal Guard (?), 16th Donegal Guard (?), 17th Donegal Guard (?), 18th Donegal Guard (?), 19th Donegal Guard (?), 20th Donegal Guard (Donegal Regulars, see SW board game)
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Takiro
Okay guys three things left for the LCAF. One is the Lyran Guards which I'm working on currently. Two is a write up on Boot Camps. The third is something I'd like to run by you all. It concerns the division of the LCAF into two different formations. The Huscarls (House Guards) and the Freikorps (Free Corps).
The Huscarls are the epitome of the Commonwealth defense and contain more than three quarters of the LCAF. Royal Guards (4 regiments), Lyran Guard (50 regiments), Arcturan Guards (20 regiments), and Donegal Guards (20 regiments) are all part of this defensive mindset which pervades the Commonwealth (94 regiments in all).
The rest of the Lyran military is made up of the Freikorps which is looked at as a hodgepodge of volunteer units. The Lyran Regulars (12 regiments), Skye Rangers (15 regiments), and Tamar Hussars (1 regiment) make up less then a quarter of the LCAF (28 regiments in all).
Thoughts?
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Ice Hellion
What exactly would be the difference between both?
- Assignments? Rather unlikely unless you want to make the Freikorps, the most glamorous one.
- Equipment and men? This is something interesting and examples can be found in real life and CBT. But then, the High Command would prefer to use the Huscarls (the best units) for its main operations.
- Use? Freikorps being floating units used as wildcards?
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Takiro
The Guards are the "elite" of the Lyran military embodying the traditional methods of the LCAF, stressing defense, the large equipment, the whole Lyran mindset. The Free Corps are everybody else basically, often looked down on by the establishment for one reason or another. Essentially you are right calling them the wildcards although I see the Skye Rangers and Tamar Hussars being deployed within their respective territory. However the same is true for the Donegal Guards but most other Guard regiments have a national reach like the Lyran Regulars - who are in the Freikorps. So deployment isn't a constant.
How is this for Boot Camps?
Boot Camps
The hard way of earning a place in the upper echelon of the Lyran military is through the numerous Boot Camps that dot the Commonwealth. The LCAF maintains scores of these fairly generic training grounds throughout its territory in order to provide basic training to its citizenry. For ten weeks these camps instruct those electing to under go such national service in the basics of military life. Discipline, fitness, field craft, weapons skill, and survival are all taught here. Many serve out their time in their respective planetary militia but a few are selected for advanced training. Instructors carefully evaluate each class searching for those who excel in these martial exercises. Earning such a place isn’t easy or even possible for most but a special few go on to higher assignments within the LCAF.
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Quote from: Takiro on August 30, 2009, 09:57:15 PM
Okay guys three things left for the LCAF. One is the Lyran Guards which I'm working on currently. Two is a write up on Boot Camps. The third is something I'd like to run by you all. It concerns the division of the LCAF into two different formations. The Huscarls (House Guards) and the Freikorps (Free Corps).
The Huscarls are the epitome of the Commonwealth defense and contain more than three quarters of the LCAF. Royal Guards (4 regiments), Lyran Guard (50 regiments), Arcturan Guards (20 regiments), and Donegal Guards (20 regiments) are all part of this defensive mindset which pervades the Commonwealth (94 regiments in all).
The rest of the Lyran military is made up of the Freikorps which is looked at as a hodgepodge of volunteer units. The Lyran Regulars (12 regiments), Skye Rangers (15 regiments), and Tamar Hussars (1 regiment) make up less then a quarter of the LCAF (28 regiments in all).
Thoughts?
I don't see any real reason to have them organized this way. In truth I don't think the LCAF looks at their forces as defensive in nature- yes they are heavy and slow, but that is because the LCAF values assault mechs rather the lighter forces, not because the LCAF is defensive in nature.
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Ice Hellion
That was my problem: the emphasis on defence.
And Irose is partly right: the LCAF is not defensive in nature.
However, what would be their doctrine?
Offensive strategically and defensive tactically, i.e. "let's put our big 'Mechs were it matters and let them come to you", aka fire kills?
Defensive strategically and tactically, i.e. "let's not wage war as it is bad for business and when we have a fight, let them come after us as we have the armour and the firepower to make them pay for their folly"?
Defensive strategically and offensive tactically, i.e. "we do not wage war (see above) but if they attack us, we will go after them as soon as we can and crush them under our heavy feet"?
Offensive strategically and tactically, i.e. "the best defence is offence and we can hold on for longer periods of time"?
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takiro
I was speaking generally but perhaps you are right. It was my intention to divide the LCAF into two seperate parts. The Guards and everybody else. The Guards are the units that are the "elite" of the Commonwealth military while the others are questionable in some way or another. The Regulars as constructed are a "dark" unit operating in the shadows while the others are regional powers of differing loyalty.
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Rainbow 6
Quote from: Ice Hellion on September 02, 2009, 07:34:57 PM
That was my problem: the emphasis on defence.
And Irose is partly right: the LCAF is not defensive in nature.
However, what would be their doctrine?
Offensive strategically and defensive tactically, i.e. "let's put our big 'Mechs were it matters and let them come to you", aka fire kills?
Defensive strategically and tactically, i.e. "let's not wage war as it is bad for business and when we have a fight, let them come after us as we have the armour and the firepower to make them pay for their folly"?
Defensive strategically and offensive tactically, i.e. "we do not wage war (see above) but if they attack us, we will go after them as soon as we can and crush them under our heavy feet"?
Offensive strategically and tactically, i.e. "the best defence is offence and we can hold on for longer periods of time"?
I'd say the LCAF's default setting is option 3.
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Quote from: Takiro on September 02, 2009, 08:19:28 PM
It was my intention to divide the LCAF into two seperate parts. The Guards and everybody else. The Guards are the units that are the "elite" of the Commonwealth military while the others are questionable in some way or another. The Regulars as constructed are a "dark" unit operating in the shadows while the others are regional powers of differing loyalty.
Then do it on a formation by formation basis- the Lyran Guard are "elite" and they get the best stuff (equipment, assignments, etc), the Lyran Regulars are a bunch of upstarts who get treated worse. There is a basis for this in the original HSSB (or maybe mechwarrior 1e?)- I'm not at my book to look it up but basically it was along the lines that the Regulars are looked down upon by the LCAF because of their predigree (or lack there of).
I have absolutely no issue with the Lyran Guard, Royal Guard, Donegal Guard and Arcturus Guard getting preferential treatment and the Skye Rangers and Lyran Regulars being treated as second class citizens. The Tamar Tigers/Hussars are a special case as they are not line troops but rather the household troops of the Duke of Tamar.
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Takiro
Another issue of the divide I keep thinking of but forgetting to type here is oaths. I had envisioned the House Guards swearing allegiance to the Steiners as the Royal Line of the Lyran Commonwealth while the Free Corps upheld different fealty i.e. the nation and not the Steiners. The way the Lyran Regulars operate you'd want to be able to say "well they aren't acting on the Archon's orders". Plausible deniablity. While the other units are more regional creatures who are no less loyal to the Commonwealth but not so much the Steiners, more their homes. I'm trying to explain their motivations for service here.
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Quote from: Takiro on September 03, 2009, 01:54:20 AM
Another issue of the divide I keep thinking of but forgetting to type here is oaths. I had envisioned the House Guards swearing allegiance to the Steiners as the Royal Line of the Lyran Commonwealth while the Free Corps upheld different fealty i.e. the nation and not the Steiners. The way the Lyran Regulars operate you'd want to be able to say "well they aren't acting on the Archon's orders". Plausible deniablity. While the other units are more regional creatures who are no less loyal to the Commonwealth but not so much the Steiners, more their homes. I'm trying to explain their motivations for service here.
I really don't like this- besides in FM:LA most of the Guards formations are said to be loyal to the state first, the Steiners second.
The distinctions are that Lyran Regulars during the 1st SW are seen as mercs/disposable troops (per FM:LA) and assigned hopeless missions, while the Guard formations are held back to conserve resources/capability.
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Rainbow 6
Don't forget that in 2785 even the Skye Rangers are seen as a loyal element of the LCAF.
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Ice Hellion
Quote from: lrose on September 03, 2009, 02:53:35 AM
The distinctions are that Lyran Regulars during the 1st SW are seen as mercs/disposable troops (per FM:LA) and assigned hopeless missions, while the Guard formations are held back to conserve resources/capability.
At least two of their regiments were formed from mercenary units (House Steiner Sourcebook).
According to Field Manual: Lyran Alliance, they were formed from a mix of mercenaries, SLDF veterans and former Rim Worlds Republic soldiers.
Quote from: lrose on September 03, 2009, 02:53:35 AM
I really don't like this- besides in FM:LA most of the Guards formations are said to be loyal to the state first, the Steiners second.
You can find in this book that the Lyran Guards were formed because the other units maintained their ties to their home province and the Archon felt the Lyran Commonwealth needed units loyal to the State.
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Takiro
Okay gang, I'll drop the whole House Guards and Free Corps division then. Cry Just got to assemble the Lyran Guard overview and the LCAF is done.
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ice Hellion
I hate seeing you cry Grin
What about splitting the LCAF in three?
Provinzkorps, Freikorps and Huskarls?
I guess the split would be quite obvious.
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Takiro
I think we will just leave it Ice. You have only seven contingents and the Lyran Guards are almost a power onto themselves. Thanks for you condolences! Tongue I should finish up the Lyran Guard this long weekend.
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Ice Hellion
Quote from: Takiro on September 04, 2009, 09:41:37 PM
I think we will just leave it Ice. You have only seven contingents and the Lyran Guards are almost a power onto themselves. Thanks for you condolences! Tongue I should finish up the Lyran Guard this long weekend.
Call me stubborn but here is my proposal:
- Provinzkorp: Arcturan Guards, Donegal Guards, Skye Rangers (a total of 70 regiments according to page 2)
Those units have a provincial recruitment and are usually defending their home provinces but can be used anywhere according to the needs of the LCAF.
- Freikorps: Lyran Regulars, Tamar Hussars, Mercenaries (11 Lyran regiments and the mercenary units).
Those units are the wildcards or the dump deposit of the LCAF.
- Huskarls: Royal Guards, Lyran Guards (57 regiments)
Those units are recruited nationwide and select the best of the best.
They are the Lyran Commonwealth showroom and a guarantee in case of rebellion.
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Rainbow 6
Quote from: Ice Hellion on September 05, 2009, 04:37:17 PM
Call me stubborn but here is my proposal:
- Provinzkorp: Arcturan Guards, Donegal Guards, Skye Rangers (a total of 70 regiments according to page 2)
Those units have a provincial recruitment and are usually defending their home provinces but can be used anywhere according to the needs of the LCAF.
- Freikorps: Lyran Regulars, Tamar Hussars, Mercenaries (11 Lyran regiments and the mercenary units).
Those units are the wildcards or the dump deposit of the LCAF.
- Huskarls: Royal Guards, Lyran Guards (57 regiments)
Those units are recruited nationwide and select the best of the best.
They are the Lyran Commonwealth showroom and a guarantee in case of rebellion.
Thats quite good ice, tak i think you might want to reconsider your decision. Wink
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Takiro
Have to consult Irose for his opinion here guys. I wouldn't put the Arcturan Guards in Provinces even though it has close ties to Tamar according to our writeup plan. More of a House Guard in my opinion.
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Ice Hellion
See them as another insurance in case their "brothers" try anything against the Lyran State or think of them as being provincial in their recruitment (which is the common factor between the different units I put in the Provinzkorps).
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BlackTigerActual
Quote from: Ice Hellion on September 05, 2009, 04:37:17 PM
Call me stubborn but here is my proposal:
- Provinzkorp: Arcturan Guards, Donegal Guards, Skye Rangers (a total of 70 regiments according to page 2)
Those units have a provincial recruitment and are usually defending their home provinces but can be used anywhere according to the needs of the LCAF.
- Freikorps: Lyran Regulars, Tamar Hussars, Mercenaries (11 Lyran regiments and the mercenary units).
Those units are the wildcards or the dump deposit of the LCAF.
- Huskarls: Royal Guards, Lyran Guards (57 regiments)
Those units are recruited nationwide and select the best of the best.
They are the Lyran Commonwealth showroom and a guarantee in case of rebellion.
I would actually consider the Lyran Gaurds part of the Freikorps, The state above the Archon, with a few exceptions ie Steiner's Boots, while the Huskarls being familiy units, ie the Royal Gaurds (Steiner), The Tamar Hussars (Lestrade) and maybe add a few for the stronger Lyran noble houses ie Kell, Luvon, Kelswa, Mardsen, Hasselhoff etc.
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I still don't see a reason to add an extra layer- keep in mind Skye was not always seccessionist in nature- I would say that during the early SW period it was probably fairly loyal.
As for deployments - looking at the HSSB - in 3025 the Donegal Guards were deployed anywhere the LC, as were the Arcturan Guards. Even 1 of the Skye Ranger regiments was assigned outside of the Federation of Skye.
As an interesting aside I found this about the Arcturan Guard from FM:LA- they were originally an elite cadre of warriors raised to defend Arcturus when it became the LC's capital. It's possible they started as a planetary militia and grew from there.
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Takiro
Let me go back to the beginning on this idea. Take a look at number of contingents below. You’ll see that each nation has its own organization scheme.
Number of Contingents
AFFS – 37 (5 Commands; National Training, Regional, Independent, March Militia)
CCAF – 14 (2 Forces; Confederation and Commonalty)
DCMS – 15 (5 Divisions; Draconis Guards, Mobile Warfare, Cadet Corps, District Regulars, Draconis Militia)
FWLM – 17 (2 Forces; Federal and Provincial)
LCAF – 7 (2, Divisions; Huscarls - House Guards and Freikorps - Free Corps)
TRAS – 15 (2 Divisions; Provincial Guards and Terran Regulars)
Now my proposed Lyran division of contingents is based upon this very astute observation by Six.
Quote from: Rainbow 6 on July 09, 2009, 04:51:47 PM
On the size of the Lyran Gurads, as Top put it on Asgard last night, if you are a Lyran MechWarrior would you rather be in a Guards Regiment or a Regulars Regiment?
With this in mind I simply put all the Guard units of the Commonwealth (Royal Guards, Lyran Guard, Arcturan Guards, Donegal Guards) together in what I thought was a very Germanic sounding catchall. Huscarl or perhaps Ice is more accurate with Huskarls. In what ever event it is possible I failed to justify this idea but I still like it for a basic breakdown of the LCAF. Granted they aren’t all about defensive actions but I still think these units embody the spirit of the Lyran military.
The rest of the Lyran military was grouped into another catchall which while not perfect I also thought fit nicely. The Freikorps (Lyran Regulars, Skye Rangers, Tamar Hussars) aren’t any less valued to the Commonwealth’s defense. However their efforts are sneered at by others who see the Guards as paramount. The Regulars as written are a dark unit which often times uses unconventional or unsavory tactics and the others are distrusted for their regional loyalties. I wouldn’t say they are disloyal but suspicions remain, don’t forget the Day of Rage and efforts to breakup the Commonwealth during the Star League.
The Skye Rangers are likely grateful for their Lyran citizenship at this point. They haven’t lost any worlds, they avoided significant damage during the Amaris Coup, and likely business is good. Plus the Commonwealth just added Hesperus to Skye industrial engine which in the here and now could eclipse once mighty Terra in that regard.
As to the House Guards, I would say the Lyrans are a monarchy and the Steiners are one in the same as the nation. That is an over generalization true but an important one to make with the Succession War coming soon. Each House is pushing itself as the leader to succeed the Camerons – even though Jennifer Steiner proclaims she is disinterested. I hope that makes it a little clearer on what I was trying to accomplish.
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Rainbow 6
Thinking about it i'd split both the Arcturan & Donegal Guards into the Friekorps as, although they are Guards, they are also the Provincial militaries of the Protectorate of Donegal and Tamar Pact.
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takiro
I just think we will drop it as the Lyrans have the small number of contingents anyway.
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Ice Hellion
Your call but I tried as much as I could...
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Takiro
Thanks Ice, we need people who push the bounds. Now to direct my energies towards finishing the Lyran Guard.
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Takiro
Just wanted to throw this in -
Quote
They are the bulk of the LCAF obviously which draws similarities to the Marik Militia but on a larger scale obviously. Even with a reduction in size they are still much larger than any House force I can remember. No still haven't checked. Just as a special note, the Hesperus Guard got me thinking. Weren't there always two Lyran Guard units always garrisoning Hesperus? I'll look in MW2 RPG book.
“House Steiner maintains a large standing force of household ‘Mechs culled from both personal planetary forces and from companies promoted for valor from other regular regiments. The 6th and 15th are currently stationed on Hesperus II. The 3rd has traditionally served as the Palace Guard of the Royal Court at Tharkad.â€
Granted that is from 3052 but relevant nonetheless. Anyway the Lyran Guard briefing is nearing completion.
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Takiro
Okay gang, think this is it. Let me know.
Lyran Guards (50 regiments)
Overview: This National Guard was formed shortly after the birth of the Lyran Commonwealth in 2341. Since its establishment the formation drew the very best elements from every corner of the realm. As a result the Lyran Guard is second only to the Royal Guard in prestige among the LCAF. While respected for its embodiment of all that is good with House Steiner the Guard has also clung to some bad habits. This traditional Lyran behavior which includes the Social General phenomenon as well as the notorious bigger is better mindset have remained ingrained in the Guards overall psyche. As the core of the traditional Commonwealth forces these controversial practices have been hard to break especially since some Archon's favored such practices. A good example of these differences is the administration of Robert Steiner II and the current regime of Jennifer Steiner. Not every command is rigidly traditional as there are quite a few innovative Guard units who picked up traits from the SLDF.
Whatever the critiques continue to be the Lyran Guard has grown into the single largest BattleMech contingent in the InnerSphere. The Guard has two hundred conventional regiments (armor and infantry) in addition to its massive BattleMech arm. Critics have said the sheer size of the overall formation coupled with its standardized regimental deployment makes it an unwieldy combat command. The truth behind the organizational technique lies in the history of the Commonwealth and the loyalty displayed by the Guard. As other formations such as Tamars’ were dissolved thanks to internal discontent or others who saw their role diminished like the Arcturan Guard the patriotic Lyran Guard was expanded. Culling personnel from planetary forces and from companies promoted for valor from other regular regiments the unit has representatives and contingents from every corner of the Commonwealth. For example a link to the forces of Reynolds who saved the Steiners on Tamar. The latest two units, the Hesperus Guards, are in part former SLDF contingents as the locale was home to a major Star League installation.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Lyran Guard (?), 2nd Lyran Guard (?), 3rd Lyran Guard (?), 4th Lyran Guard (?), 5th Lyran Guard (?), 6th Lyran Guard (?), 7th Lyran Guard (?), 8th Lyran Guard (?), 9th Lyran Guard (?), 10th Lyran Guard (Thundering Elephants), 11th Lyran Guard (?), 12th Lyran Guard (?), 13th Lyran Guard (?), 14th Lyran Guard (The Fearsome Fourteenth), 15h Lyran Guard (Death or Glory Boys), 16th Lyran Guard (?), 17th Lyran Guard (?), 18th Lyran Guard (?), 19th Lyran Guard (?), 20th Lyran Guard (?), 21st Lyran Guard (?), 22nd Lyran Guard (?), 23rd Lyran Guard (?), 24th Lyran Guard (?), 25th Lyran Guard (?), 26th Lyran Guard (Steiner’s Boots), 27th Lyran Guard (?), 28th Lyran Guard (?), 29th Lyran Guard (?), 30th Lyran Guard (?), 31st Lyran Guard (?), 32nd Lyran Guard (Red Arrows), 33rd Lyran Guard (?), 34th Lyran Guard (?), 35th Lyran Guard (?), 36th Lyran Guard (?), 37th Lyran Guard (?), 38th Lyran Guard (?), 39th Lyran Guard (?), 40th Lyran Guard (?), 41st Lyran Guard (?), 42nd Lyran Guard (?), 43rd Lyran Guard (?), 44th Lyran Guard (?), 45th Lyran Guard (?), 46th Lyran Guard (?), 47th Lyran Guard (?), 48th Lyran Guard (?), 49th Lyran Guard (?), 50th Lyran Guard (?)
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Takiro
A look back at the entire overview.
Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces
122 BattleMech Regiments (as of 2785)
The LCAF seems low because of their industry and wealth but remember they could have been hit hard by defections to the SLDF and causalities from their war with the Rim Republic. The Commonwealth relies on assault units to smash opposition in set battles while only a couple light units are capable of conducting raiding missions.
Royal Guards (4 regiments)
Overview: The Royal Guards are the single most prestigious contingent in the entire LCAF. The formation dates back to 2375 when Archon Basileus Robert Marsden established the unit as his personal guard. Since that time only the very best Lyran soldiers have qualified for this premier posting. The evolving nature of the Commonwealth led to increasing criticism that appointments were politically motivated rather then being militarily based. National allegiance, the ability to follow orders, and most of all loyalty to the Archon has always been paramount. While some deride the Royal Guard for their lack of battlefield skill none doubt their fanatical devotion to the Lyran cause. Also they are considered to be the best equipped unit of the House militaries even though they currently lack combat experience. The First, Second, and Third traditionally carry out garrison, parade, and ceremonial duties while the Fourth is the principal active service unit. An honorary Fifth Royal Guard was created by Archon Craig Steiner in 2529 to carry out “Guardian Duty†in the Lyran Throne Room. Never a true regiment the Pride of the Archon is the very pinnacle for a Lyran mechwarrior to achieve.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Royal Guards (The Pride of Donegal), 2nd Royal Guards (The Pride of Skye), 3rd Royal Guards (The Pride of Tamar), 4th Royal Guards (The Pride of the Commonwealth)
Lyran Guards (50 regiments)
Overview: This National Guard was formed shortly after the birth of the Lyran Commonwealth in 2341. Since its establishment the formation drew the very best elements from every corner of the realm. As a result the Lyran Guard is second only to the Royal Guard in prestige among the LCAF. While respected for its embodiment of all that is good with House Steiner the Guard has also clung to some bad habits. This traditional Lyran behavior which includes the Social General phenomenon as well as the notorious bigger is better mindset have remained ingrained in the Guards overall psyche. As the core of the traditional Commonwealth forces these controversial practices have been hard to break especially since some Archon's favored such practices. A good example of these differences is the administration of Robert Steiner II and the current regime of Jennifer Steiner. Not every command is rigidly traditional as there are quite a few innovative Guard units who picked up traits from the SLDF.
Whatever the critiques continue to be the Lyran Guard has grown into the single largest BattleMech contingent in the InnerSphere. The Guard has two hundred conventional regiments (armor and infantry) in addition to its massive BattleMech arm. Critics have said the sheer size of the overall formation coupled with its standardized regimental deployment makes it an unwieldy combat command. The truth behind the organizational technique lies in the history of the Commonwealth and the loyalty displayed by the Guard. As other formations such as Tamars’ were dissolved thanks to internal discontent or others who saw their role diminished like the Arcturan Guard the patriotic Lyran Guard was expanded. Culling personnel from planetary forces and from companies promoted for valor from other regular regiments the unit has representatives and contingents from every corner of the Commonwealth. For example a link to the forces of Reynolds who saved the Steiners on Tamar. The latest two units, the Hesperus Guards, are in part former SLDF contingents as the locale was home to a major Star League installation.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Lyran Guard (?), 2nd Lyran Guard (?), 3rd Lyran Guard (?), 4th Lyran Guard (?), 5th Lyran Guard (?), 6th Lyran Guard (?), 7th Lyran Guard (?), 8th Lyran Guard (?), 9th Lyran Guard (?), 10th Lyran Guard (Thundering Elephants), 11th Lyran Guard (?), 12th Lyran Guard (?), 13th Lyran Guard (?), 14th Lyran Guard (The Fearsome Fourteenth), 15h Lyran Guard (Death or Glory Boys), 16th Lyran Guard (?), 17th Lyran Guard (?), 18th Lyran Guard (?), 19th Lyran Guard (?), 20th Lyran Guard (?), 21st Lyran Guard (?), 22nd Lyran Guard (?), 23rd Lyran Guard (?), 24th Lyran Guard (?), 25th Lyran Guard (?), 26th Lyran Guard (Steiner’s Boots), 27th Lyran Guard (?), 28th Lyran Guard (?), 29th Lyran Guard (?), 30th Lyran Guard (?), 31st Lyran Guard (?), 32nd Lyran Guard (Red Arrows), 33rd Lyran Guard (?), 34th Lyran Guard (?), 35th Lyran Guard (?), 36th Lyran Guard (?), 37th Lyran Guard (?), 38th Lyran Guard (?), 39th Lyran Guard (?), 40th Lyran Guard (?), 41st Lyran Guard (?), 42nd Lyran Guard (?), 43rd Lyran Guard (?), 44th Lyran Guard (?), 45th Lyran Guard (?), 46th Lyran Guard (?), 47th Lyran Guard (?), 48th Lyran Guard (?), 49th Lyran Guard (?), 50th Lyran Guard (?)
Arcturan Guards (20 regiments)
Overview: Initially an armor and infantry force established in 2341 to defend the first Lyran capital the Arcturan Guard drew its membership directly from the residents of that world. However, their role soon changed as Arcturus steadily declined in prominence following the government’s move to Tharkad in 2407. Today only a quarter of their forces come from Arcturus via official mandate. Following the Lyran Civil War the Guard became the unofficial unit of the Tamar Pact which the planet was originally a part of. Following the disbandment of the old Tamar military apparatus many natives began requesting billets here. While much has changed since that time, the introduction of the BattleMech for instance, the Guard still remains a premier formation in the Commonwealth military. Since its foundation the unit has seen service in every conflict and contributed significantly to the defense of the nation.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Arcturan Guard (?), 2nd Arcturan Guard (?), 3rd Arcturan Guard (?), 4th Arcturan Guard (?), 5th Arcturan Guard (?), 6th Arcturan Guard (?), 7th Arcturan Guard (?), 8th Arcturan Guard (?), 9th Arcturan Guard (?), 10th Arcturan Guard (?), 11th Arcturan Guard (The Golden Lions), 12th Arcturan Guard (?), 13th Arcturan Guard (?), 14th Arcturan Guard (?), 15th Arcturan Guard (Stavlos Tigers), 16th Arcturan Guard (?), 17th Arcturan Guard (Kezla Rams), 18th Arcturan Guard (?), 19th Arcturan Guard (Puma), 20th Arcturan Guard (White Bears of Uther) [two nicknames will be the Arcturan Northern Nomads and Tharkan Woodsmen see HSSB p. 69 - 23rd Arcturan Guards aka the Frost Giants]
Donegal Guards (20 regiments)
Overview: This unit was founded by the Protectorate of Donegal in 2314 shortly after the establishment of that early interstellar state. Today the Guards are a mainstay of the Lyran military containing one hundred regiments, twenty of which are BattleMech forces. As they hail from the Commonwealth’s central state the Guard is closely tied to the Lyran ruling house. While many don’t consider them as fanatical as the Royal or Lyran Guard they are renowned for their determination to overcome any obstacles which impede their orders. Often the High Command will assign the Donegal Guard to a campaign as a demonstration of the Lyran will to win. They remain closely associated with House Steiner and the Protectorate of Donegal where they are frequently stationed. Roaming the vast frontiers of the Protectorate as well as the Commonwealth’s interior the the Donegal Guard have beaten their fair share of foreign and domestic enemies. Sharing a border with the Free Worlds League and the Periphery has resulted in their primary opposition coming in the form of Marik Regulars and Pirates. The Twentieth which is the most recent addition to the Guard, formerly a Star League Loyalist Regiment, has experienced the horrors of the Amaris Coup.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Donegal Guard (?), 2nd Donegal Guard (Unwearied Second), 3rd Donegal Guard (Justice Brigade), 4th Donegal Guard (?), 5th Donegal Guard (Bulldogs), 6th Donegal Guard (White Hawks), 7th Donegal Guards (Earthquakers), 8th Donegal Guards (?), 9th Donegal Guards (?), 10th Donegal Guard (Lilly’s Lancers), 11th Donegal Guard (The Push Me Pull Yours Regiment), 12th Donegal Guard (Crocodiles?), 13th Donegal Guard (?), 14th Donegal Guard (?), 15th Donegal Guard (?), 16th Donegal Guard (?), 17th Donegal Guard (?), 18th Donegal Guard (?), 19th Donegal Guard (?), 20th Donegal Guard (Donegal Regulars, see SW board game)
Lyran Regulars (12 regiments)
Overview: As the Star League gradually disintegrated a need within the LCAF was recognized by the High Command. The usefulness of unconventional forces was becoming apparent as the 28th century wore on. Assembling an ad hoc brigade named the Lyran Regulars from less than traditional sources was their solution. These scoundrels without proper pedigree drew the ire of the Commonwealth’s military establishment who considered them mercenaries at best. During the Hidden Wars they drew difficult assignments which were undertaken without support. Heavily influenced by the SLDF the Regulars used a mixture of arms to achieve battlefield success. This in turn has won them a measure of respect from the Lyran authorities who still have trouble crediting these inferior troops.
Originally two separate divisions (1st, 2nd, 3rd and 11th, 12th, 13th) which included BattleMechs, armor, and infantry were created to mirror each other. Using time honored techniques of misdirection and stealth these units effectively camouflaged themselves sometimes even as Lyran Guards. In addition to a mirrored deployment system which often plays with the Regulars numerical designations, units frequently suffer high casualty rates thanks to their dangerous assignments which require constant reorganization. This created a further patchwork which foreign intelligence agencies still have trouble deciphering. As a result the location, strengths, and identities of the Lyran Regulars are a challenging group to keep track of at all times.
Recently the Lyran Regulars have doubled in size and there are future plans for further expansion. This growth caused by the addition of Star League and Rim Republic veterans has allowed them to field 12 BattleMech regiments supported by conventional forces. By pairing these new units in much the same fashion as the original formations the Regulars have managed to retain their mirrored deployment system. Many fear that this organizational feature may be in jeopardy thanks to the speed of future enlargement in an uncertain time. Unfortunately the maintenance needs for these work horse units have not been met by the High Command. As a result some of their high tech equipment has already fallen into disrepair.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Lyran Regulars (The Boomers), 2nd Lyran Regulars (?), 3rd Lyran Regulars (The Bee Squishers? – this nickname has no specific date so we could use it), 4th Lyran Regulars (Tropic Lightning – remnants of SLDF 68th Infantry aka the Thai Militia), 6th Lyran Regulars (The Odessa Regulars – remnants of SLDF 63rd Mechanized Infantry Division, possible ties to the Terrans who wish to safeguard hidden SL facility , if the Odessa Regulars are keeping the secret for the Star League and were on planet at the start of the succession war then they could have been in and around the planetary capital which was nuked by a DCMS task force from orbit according to the Archers Avengers novel set on Odessa, taking there secret to their graves), 10th Lyran Regulars (The Stinging Barflies – remnants of SLDF 18th Infantry Division who interestingly enough were based in the RWR), 11th Lyran Regulars (The Hammers), 12th Lyran Regulars (?), 13th Lyran Regulars (?), 14th Lyran Regulars (The Sakhalin Regulars - remnants of SLDF 101st Mechanized Infantry Division who were stationed in the CC, so I was thinking about a possible tie in with the Capellan Sakhalin), 16th Lyran Regulars (The Apache Division - remnants of SLDF 368th BattleMech Division), 20th Lyran Regulars (The York Regulars – Star League Loyalist Regiment)
Future Units: 5th Lyran Regulars (Ferris Wolverines – see Merc Guild and canon ComStar ruling), 7th Lyran Regulars (New Delhi Lancers or Fighting Seventh – formed early in the canon 1st SW), 8th Lyran Regulars (Mad Hatters – formed early in the canon 1st SW), 9th Lyran Regulars (Karilon Magicians – Mechwarrior Brotherhood from the RWR joined LC during canon 1st SW) [obviously since these formations came into being during the extreme duress of the SW a dedicated mirror unit will not be made]
Skye Rangers (15 regiments)
Overview: The Skye Rangers are survivors whose origins date back to the turn of the twentieth fourth century. Originally the army of the Federation of Skye this unit has compiled hundreds of years of military traditions. Over this time these brave warriors have squared off against forces from the Draconis Combine, the Free Worlds League, and even the Terran Hegemony with a good deal of success. Prior to the 2370s relations between Skye and Terra had been cool at best thanks the Mother Doctrine and the Symra Ambush. That began to change when Lord Raymond the fourth Director-General of the Hegemony married Katherine McQuiston. The couple was soon involved in a scandal when a neglected Katherine turned to Raymond’s brother Brian for attention. The affair was discovered shortly before Raymond’s death nearly ended the Cameron dynasty and hopes for renewed ties. However, Brian Cameron beat the charges and became the fifth Director. In 2399 he married Katherine McQuiston and ties between the Hegemony and Skye have been close ever since.
Their adversaries have not been confined to foreign nationals but also include domestic opponents. When Robert Marsden staged a military coup in 2375 to seize control of the Commonwealth most of the Rangers backed him. Marsden had built many contacts within the Skye Rangers since the establishment of the Lyran Commonwealth. They formed a core of an army loyal to him while a few Rangers futility resisted on Skye this long overdue move towards order. Afterwards the Rangers were rebuilt by a grateful Archon Basileus although some accuse “the Crusher†of playing politics. Restoring the Rangers as a public relations move to try and foster good will on Skye. In 2471 Archon Michael Steiner married Regina McQuiston, last of the McQuiston line, which helped tie Skye and its Rangers to House Steiner. The Lyran Civil War which began in 2501 and lasted to 2505 split the contingent in much the same way. Thanks to the backing of these loyal Skye Rangers the Archon managed to defeat his opponents once again. As a result Robert Steiner spared the unit from complete dissolution a fate which befell Tamar’s army who had a well deserved martial reputation.
House Lestrade was awarded title to Skye following the Civil War by Archon Robert Steiner for loyal service. While the Duke's Own Huscarls, an infantry unit, serve as the Duke of Skye's personal guard the Skye Rangers have formed a close bond with their new liege. Their unconditional fidelity to House Steiner would be tested in 2591 by the ‘Day of Rage’. This unjust attack by Archon Viola Steiner upon her own people during the Reunification War has strained relations between the unit and the Archon since. In 2643 the Decentralist Movement, which had widespread support in Skye, nearly dissolved the Commonwealth. Many Skye Rangers left the LCAF to serve General Kerensky during the Amaris Coup and sympathies to the Last Cameron remain to this day. Despite these feelings the Rangers remain a major bulwark of the Lyran military.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 3rd Skye Rangers, 4th Skye Rangers, 10th Skye Rangers, 25th Skye Rangers, plus eleven (11) more commands which are not in numerical order (not the 17th or 22nd).
Tamar Hussars (1 regiment)
Overview: The Hussars are the only noble force in the Lyran Commonwealth, thanks to the unique position of Tamar, who are considered a line unit. The guardians of the Tamar Pact have ancient ties to the region that predate the Lyran nation. The Ducal Guard has always been well equipped first receiving BattleMechs in 2465. With a reputation for martial excellence the Hussars were reformed by the Kelswa family in the wake of the Lyran Civil War (circa 2506). As the only Tamar unit to survive this war their role and notoriety expanded. They saw action in the Reunification War and were involved in Viola Steiner’s “Day of Rageâ€. It was during the Star League era that the Hussars took on their modern character. As the Archon forbid noble troops from having any heavy ‘Mechs they became experts in swift and mobile warfare. Their flamboyant and daring characters both in and out of battle earned them the moniker, the Tamar Tigers. This well trained light force is currently commanded by Duke Graham Kelswa of Carse.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Tamar Hussars (Tamar Tigers)
Military Academies
The Nagelring (Tharkad)
The Sanglamore (Skye)
Tamar Academy of War (Tamar)
Coventry Academy (Coventry)
Royal New Capetown Military Academy (New Capetown)
Pandora College of Military Sciences (Pandora)
Blackjack School of Conflict (Blackjack)
Military Academy of Somerset (Somerset)
Arcturan Military College (Arcturus)
Dell Naval Institute (Dell)
Donegal Defense Center (Donegal)
Boot Camps
The hard way of earning a place in the upper echelon of the Lyran military is through the numerous Boot Camps that dot the Commonwealth. The LCAF maintains scores of these fairly generic training grounds throughout its territory in order to provide basic training to its citizenry. For ten weeks these camps instruct those electing to under go such national service in the basics of military life. Discipline, fitness, field craft, weapons skill, and survival are all taught here. Many serve out their time in their respective planetary militia but a few are selected for advanced training. Instructors carefully evaluate each class searching for those who excel in these martial exercises. Earning such a place isn’t easy or even possible for most but a special few go on to higher assignments within the LCAF.
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Hessian
Never mind.
Wrong Thread.
Sorry Embarrassed
Hessian
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Rainbow 6
Looks good Tak.
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Ice Hellion
Takiro, I guess you need names for the units with ?
Am I right?
Quote from: Takiro on September 08, 2009, 11:05:26 PM
Just wanted to throw this in -
“House Steiner maintains a large standing force of household ‘Mechs culled from both personal planetary forces and from companies promoted for valor from other regular regiments. The 6th and 15th are currently stationed on Hesperus II. The 3rd has traditionally served as the Palace Guard of the Royal Court at Tharkad.â€
Granted that is from 3052 but relevant nonetheless. Anyway the Lyran Guard briefing is nearing completion.
We could look at the attack of Hesperus by the Wolf's Dragoons and see if we can find any info.
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Takiro
I leave that to the developers of the LCAF. Wink
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Ice Hellion
Which are?
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Takiro
To be announced! Wink All in good time.
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Ice Hellion
So many mysteries Grin
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Rainbow 6
Looking at the LCAF regiments the 19th Lyran Guards are known as the Scarlet Guards from the time they served in place of the 2nd Royal Guards on Tharkad.
Got this from a discussion with Top over on the AsgardLCAF site.
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Rainbow 6
Other Lcaf regimental names
3rd Lyran Guard - The Eversworded third
6th Lyran Guard - The Saucy Sixth
11th Lyran Guard - St. George's Regiment
24th Lyran Guard - The Slashers
30th Ltran Guard - Walking Hellfire
36th Lyran Guard - Air Surfers
4th Skye Rangers - Albion
10th Skye Rangers - The Black Watch
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Takiro
Do you have canon references for these assertions. Some like the 4th Skye Rangers (Albion) I completely agree with.
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Rainbow 6
Yeah they are all in the original House Steiner book, i'll carry on looking through it for more.
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Rainbow 6
Ok some more from the book:-
Donegal Guard - 4th Red Horde, 8th Mud Wrestlers, 13th Black Cats, 14th Dawn Chargers, 17th Cheshire Cats
Arcturan Guard - 8th The Hell or High Water Boys.
Most of these and the ones i posted above seem to be earned during the 1st war or early 2nd but i think that they fit.
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Takiro
Yeah that is the thing nicknames are from 2785 prior to the Succession Wars so they have to hold up before that time which is rough.
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You have to be careful with nicknames- if I didn't include them in my original notes it is because they date from the SW era. It's possible that many units don't have nicknames in 2785.
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Takiro
I'd say that they would have nicknames cause that is just tradition but they probably aren't the ones we know in 3025 and after. Of course there are some exceptions.
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Rainbow 6
Sorry to bring something new up but i got the 25 years of art and fiction book for christmas and on page 110 in the story Tactics of Betrayal the Star League loyalist regiment has a mechwarrior who deserted from the 2nd Tamar Jaegers with his Atlas.
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Quote from: Rainbow 6 on December 29, 2009, 07:56:48 PM
Sorry to bring something new up but i got the 25 years of art and fiction book for christmas and on page 110 in the story Tactics of Betrayal the Star League loyalist regiment has a mechwarrior who deserted from the 2nd Tamar Jaegers with his Atlas.
I don't have the book yet but there is one problem with this scenario- the Atlas was introduced in 2755 for the SLDF. As far as I know it did not become available to the house armies until after the fall of the SL- so how does a mechwarrior in the 2nd Tamar Jaegers have access to an Atlas? Until I get the book and can read the story the question I have is what other inaccuracies are in the story and if there are enough then the whole mention of the 2nd Tamar Jaegers becomes questionable.
That said I have no problem with including a Tamar Jaegers in TA- just we have to figure out why/how they were completely wiped out and the Skye Rangers and Donegal Guards survived to 3025.
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Knightmare
Could have been a Regular SLDF Mechwarrior allowed to retire and take his 'Mech along for the ride, ala Level 1?
Could have been a defector to the Lyran Commonwealth but rejoined during the Liberation?
Could have been the son of an SLDF Mechwarrior who's father took the 'Mech illegally from the SLDF?
Could have been just about anything... Huh
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Takiro
Thanks for the spot Six. I was saving the Tamar Jaegers for later in the timeline. I just got the hardcopy for Christmas so I will have to take a look. It is a good book Irose that really looks through the history of BattleTech however it is pricey. 60 bucks for hardcopy. I believe it has some unique planetary info as well.
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Rainbow 6
Well in the story it refers to the Atlas as 'his' now i could be miss-reading that and he could have been assigned it when he deserted to the SLDF and was made a member of the 18th Volunteer Regiment.
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Takiro
Okay folks I've taken an in depth look at canon references for the Tamar Jaegers. Tactics of Betrayal really put it mark on Star League era combat organization as it reveals the existence of several units including the Jaegers. Take a look at its composition of an Amaris Division for example but more on that later I want to stay on target with the Jaegers. Now that the story refers only once to a Second Tamar Jaegers.
Now TRO 3026 also makes reference to a Tamar Jagers under the Pegasus Scout Hovertank. Under its deployment section it mentions that Kurita Pegasus crew successful infiltrated Tamar and witnesses the Jagers preparing for a massive assault. After discovering Steiner’s target, the planet Memmingen, the crew successfully informed its JumpShip of the Jagers’ strength and intended target. The transmission caused them to be captured and the Combine was prepared for the assault stationing three regiments on Memmingen. The Jagers took great losses before retreating back to the Commonwealth.
Finally CamoSpecs also refers to a Tamar Jagers. The Tamar Jagers are a relatively new unit, consisting of four regiments. Being founded beginning of the Third Succession War; this unit primarily recruits personnel from Tamar. Being mainly equipped with mechs in the medium weight class these regiments are between green and regular concerning the quality of their MechWarriors and are relatively well-equipped. The world of Tamar is the capital of the Tamar Pact since the Tamar-Brothers discovered and explored it in 2331. It is a big planet whose exceptional gravity demands some physical exertion from those life forms that are not born here. Even though abundant in minerals when the planet was first settled the easy to reach minerals close to the surface were completely exhausted by centuries of mining. The remaining minerals are hidden deep within the planet and would need complex technology to be mined and processed. This transformed Tamar from a resource planet into a huge trading world.
Based on the final two blurbs the Tamar Jaegers had been on my radar for the 3rd Succession War not the 1st. Long time ago I had some great discussions with Tokage on CBT who had created a great background for the unit which I was going to use. Basically years of Kurita aggression had provoked a brutal response aka the Tamar Jagers. These guys were out for blood and if you were a Snake watch out. Their attitude was based more on Nazi Germany then traditional Lyran Commonwealth values which gave Steiner a Bad Guy unit at least I felt. I'm currently looking for the file on this subject.
However the new Jaeger unit which does establish a thought pattern for TPTB messes up my plans. So what to do? Suggestions??
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Ice Hellion
Destroy them and recreate them later.
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Muttley
I agree- the negatives of their reputation could be overshadowed by the sheer bada$$ery of the unit death.
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Alright folks, back to this topic again to finally clear up the Tamar Jaegers issue. I've decided to add the unit to the LCAF pre-war.
Figure their creation date would be post Lyran Civil War after the Kelswas were installed as the rulers of Tamar which is prior to the Star League. Reason for this is the Jaeger name - which is very Steiner-ish and somewhat un-Tamar which had different cultural roots. Following the Steiner crackdown I figure the Lyrans want to build on the past martial excellence of Tamar which was arguably the best fighters of the original Commonwealth (see Hanbook HS which implies Tamar's warrior skill).
How successful the unit is at capturing this martial superiority is questionable given the need to insure its loyalty to House Steiner and the likely annihilation of Tamar's best original unit (whatever that premier formation was). The Jaegers probably pick up some bad habits and don't meet up to the ancient military traditions of Tamar. They would still despise House Kurita and even after the Lyrans best efforts to subjugate them disloyalty likely rebounds. See the Day of Rage which targeted Skye and Tamar troops. Perhaps the start of this downward loyalty sees the return of military skill.
Now the biggest question. How big is this formation in 2785? And since we determined the strength of all LCAF commands where can we take regiments from to supply this "new" formation?
Comments welcome!
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I like the idea that the Jaegers were raised to replace the original Tamar military (Tamar Hussars??). I would think they are not as successful as the original unit, you are probably right that they favor loyalty over skill.
As for where they come from - would take the bulk of the numbers from the Lyran Regulars, they were not a permanent organization at this point. We can also take a few from the Arcturan Guard and the Donegal Guard. I would put the Jaegers at somewhere between 6 and 10 regiments.
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Not sure if the Hussars were the original unit of Tamar or one of two. I see another pre-Commonwealth formation providing the bulk of the Pact's ancient military. Have to see if I can find some American-Pakistani connection to the Tamars which we could draw upon.
Another aspect for the write up is the Jaegers relationship to the the Hussars who have recently been nationalized from the private army of Duke Kelswa. I'm leaning towards the pre-madonna view.
Founding date for the Jaegers is no doubt after 2506 the conclusion of the Lyran Civil War.
This limits their battlefield history to the late stages of the Age of War but leaves plenty of space for participation in the Reunification War, the Hidden Wars, the Amaris Coup (which I'd like to include some defections for the Loyalist cause see Tactics of Betrayal), and of course what have they been up to more recently.
Also has their been any expansion of note over the years - what size did they begin at? I'd like to start with 4 regiments given their past canon references.
Finally I'm really liking the whole "Focused Aggression" angle of the Jaegers that is developing. Realizing that the people of Tamar might always be hostile to the Steiners this anger could be put to good use. Hatred of the Draconis Combine and even the Rim Worlds would be encouraged by recruiting practices, training methods, extensive propaganda, along with other innovative efforts. Kurita and Amaris could be made into easy scape goats by the Archons who encourage said behavior as a way to distract against domestic discontent. Second only to their dislike of the Dragon is the former RWR whose homelands they now help occupy. I would think their brutal/ruthless reputation may have carried over from the Combine to here. Ill will from the Reunification War/ Amaris Coup might have the Rimmers another focus of the Jaegers anger.
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If I understand what you said, the Tamar Jaegers are "new" regiments made after the initial Tamar regiments were destroyed.
They focus more on loyalty to House Steiner than on warrior skills.
And then you want them via the proper propaganda to be a recipient for anti Draconis and RWR feelings?
I have troubles with the last part especially with the loyalty to House Steiner.
What I can imagine is as follow (perhaps this is what you wanted to say):
- the founding times: loyalty to House Steiner above all
- evolution as the Archons find that the Tamar people will will not be broken => focus on ruthless efficiently against the Draconis Combine (equal or worst than the Draconis Combine soldiers) and propaganda against the Draconis Combine aimed at the Tamar people.
This should lead to two things: an increase in recruitments and the most active pro Tamar people using their energy for the Lyran Commonwealth good.
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Correct Ice, they aren't so much focused on loyalty to House Steiner but against its enemies. I'm actually thinking they might have given the SLDF a lot of trouble during the Golden Age thanks to its aggressive attitudes. But what you say is right. Loyalty to Steiners might have won out over time but the Day of Rage alienates Tamarians once and for all. The only thing that is left is to give them a scape goat - Steiner's enemies.
Having trouble finding the numbers for this formation as many units have already been locked in for good reason. The only one that I could see surrendering some regiments would be the Skye Rangers. Royal Guard, Lyran Guard, Lyran Regulars, Donegal Guard, Tamar Hussars, and Arcturan Guard are all locked in for me as is our 122 regiments overall. Suggestions?
LCAF (122 regiments)
Royal Guards (4 regiments)
Lyran Guard (50 regiments)
Arcturan Guards (20 regiments)
Donegal Guards (20 regiments)
Lyran Regulars (12 regiments)
Skye Rangers (15 regiments)
Tamar Hussars (1 regiment)
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1 seems a bit low.
2-3 would be more adequate (at least this is my feeling).
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I'd say cut 3 from the Skye Rangers.
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Unless I am forgetting something I don't see why we can't cut a few Lyran Regulars- they were only an ad-hoc group.
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Ice the Tamar Hussars (aka the Tamar Tigers) are a single regiment and that is already set. We could discuss the possibility that this unit was not yet considered line at the time of this report freeing a single regiment for other use. Just floating the idea - I really don't like it though.
First of all guys I'd go with a bare minimum of 4 regiments for the Tamar Jaegers but lets take a look at Irose's nominee for cuts - the Lyran Regulars.
Lyran Regulars (12 regiments)
Overview: As the Star League gradually disintegrated a need within the LCAF was recognized by the High Command. The usefulness of unconventional forces was becoming apparent as the 28th century wore on. Assembling an ad hoc brigade named the Lyran Regulars from less than traditional sources was their solution. These scoundrels without proper pedigree drew the ire of the Commonwealth’s military establishment who considered them mercenaries at best. During the Hidden Wars they drew difficult assignments which were undertaken without support. Heavily influenced by the SLDF the Regulars used a mixture of arms to achieve battlefield success. This in turn has won them a measure of respect from the Lyran authorities who still have trouble crediting these inferior troops.
Originally two separate divisions (1st, 2nd, 3rd and 11th, 12th, 13th) which included BattleMechs, armor, and infantry were created to mirror each other. Using time honored techniques of misdirection and stealth these units effectively camouflaged themselves sometimes even as Lyran Guards. In addition to a mirrored deployment system which often plays with the Regulars numerical designations, units frequently suffer high casualty rates thanks to their dangerous assignments which require constant reorganization. This created a further patchwork which foreign intelligence agencies still have trouble deciphering. As a result the location, strengths, and identities of the Lyran Regulars are a challenging group to keep track of at all times.
Recently the Lyran Regulars have doubled in size and there are future plans for further expansion. This growth caused by the addition of Star League and Rim Republic veterans has allowed them to field 12 BattleMech regiments supported by conventional forces. By pairing these new units in much the same fashion as the original formations the Regulars have managed to retain their mirrored deployment system. Many fear that this organizational feature may be in jeopardy thanks to the speed of future enlargement in an uncertain time. Unfortunately the maintenance needs for these work horse units have not been met by the High Command. As a result some of their high tech equipment has already fallen into disrepair.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Lyran Regulars (The Boomers), 2nd Lyran Regulars (?), 3rd Lyran Regulars (The Bee Squishers? – this nickname has no specific date so we could use it), 4th Lyran Regulars (Tropic Lightning – remnants of SLDF 68th Infantry aka the Thai Militia), 6th Lyran Regulars (The Odessa Regulars – remnants of SLDF 63rd Mechanized Infantry Division, possible ties to the Terrans who wish to safeguard hidden SL facility , if the Odessa Regulars are keeping the secret for the Star League and were on planet at the start of the succession war then they could have been in and around the planetary capital which was nuked by a DCMS task force from orbit according to the Archers Avengers novel set on Odessa, taking there secret to their graves), 10th Lyran Regulars (The Stinging Barflies – remnants of SLDF 18th Infantry Division who interestingly enough were based in the RWR), 11th Lyran Regulars (The Hammers), 12th Lyran Regulars (?), 13th Lyran Regulars (?), 14th Lyran Regulars (The Sakhalin Regulars - remnants of SLDF 101st Mechanized Infantry Division who were stationed in the CC, so I was thinking about a possible tie in with the Capellan Sakhalin), 16th Lyran Regulars (The Apache Division - remnants of SLDF 368th BattleMech Division), 20th Lyran Regulars (The York Regulars – Star League Loyalist Regiment)
Future Units: 5th Lyran Regulars (Ferris Wolverines – see Merc Guild and canon ComStar ruling), 7th Lyran Regulars (New Delhi Lancers or Fighting Seventh – formed early in the canon 1st SW), 8th Lyran Regulars (Mad Hatters – formed early in the canon 1st SW), 9th Lyran Regulars (Karilon Magicians – Mechwarrior Brotherhood from the RWR joined LC during canon 1st SW) [obviously since these formations came into being during the extreme duress of the SW a dedicated mirror unit will not be made]
(2nd) Double Dealers and (12th) Boxcars
So there you have it. The existing canon units, mirrored deployment, and SLDF additions all fit nicely. I'd really hate to make any cut. Just can't see any easy cuts. If you could reasonably do it - it would drop two units at a time. Again I don't like this..
The Skye Rangers on the other hand lack individual unit specifics.
Skye Rangers (15 regiments)
Overview: The Skye Rangers are survivors whose origins date back to the turn of the twentieth fourth century. Originally the army of the Federation of Skye this unit has compiled hundreds of years of military traditions. Over this time these brave warriors have squared off against forces from the Draconis Combine, the Free Worlds League, and even the Terran Hegemony with a good deal of success. Prior to the 2370s relations between Skye and Terra had been cool at best thanks the Mother Doctrine and the Symra Ambush. That began to change when Lord Raymond the fourth Director-General of the Hegemony married Katherine McQuiston. The couple was soon involved in a scandal when a neglected Katherine turned to Raymond’s brother Brian for attention. The affair was discovered shortly before Raymond’s death nearly ended the Cameron dynasty and hopes for renewed ties. However, Brian Cameron beat the charges and became the fifth Director. In 2399 he married Katherine McQuiston and ties between the Hegemony and Skye have been close ever since.
Their adversaries have not been confined to foreign nationals but also include domestic opponents. When Robert Marsden staged a military coup in 2375 to seize control of the Commonwealth most of the Rangers backed him. Marsden had built many contacts within the Skye Rangers since the establishment of the Lyran Commonwealth. They formed a core of an army loyal to him while a few Rangers futility resisted on Skye this long overdue move towards order. Afterwards the Rangers were rebuilt by a grateful Archon Basileus although some accuse “the Crusher†of playing politics. Restoring the Rangers as a public relations move to try and foster good will on Skye. In 2471 Archon Michael Steiner married Regina McQuiston, last of the McQuiston line, which helped tie Skye and its Rangers to House Steiner. The Lyran Civil War which began in 2501 and lasted to 2505 split the contingent in much the same way. Thanks to the backing of these loyal Skye Rangers the Archon managed to defeat his opponents once again. As a result Robert Steiner spared the unit from complete dissolution a fate which befell Tamar’s army who had a well deserved martial reputation.
House Lestrade was awarded title to Skye following the Civil War by Archon Robert Steiner for loyal service. While the Duke's Own Huscarls, an infantry unit, serve as the Duke of Skye's personal guard the Skye Rangers have formed a close bond with their new liege. Their unconditional fidelity to House Steiner would be tested in 2591 by the ‘Day of Rage’. This unjust attack by Archon Viola Steiner upon her own people during the Reunification War has strained relations between the unit and the Archon since. In 2643 the Decentralist Movement, which had widespread support in Skye, nearly dissolved the Commonwealth. Many Skye Rangers left the LCAF to serve General Kerensky during the Amaris Coup and sympathies to the Last Cameron remain to this day. Despite these feelings the Rangers remain a major bulwark of the Lyran military.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 3rd Skye Rangers, 4th Skye Rangers, 10th Skye Rangers, 25th Skye Rangers, plus eleven (11) more commands which are not in numerical order (not the 17th or 22nd).
We can make cuts here and not miss anything IMO. The Lyrans would have a reason to keep both formations low in overall strength. Granted this isn't ideal but... ???
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There's no reason we can't cut the Arcturan Guard - the DG are set per Canon, the AG were our best guess- we could make them say 18 regiments instead of 20.
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I guess we could cut Arcturan Guards as part of their "role" has been reduced upon further review and not many of their units have specifics.
Arcturan Guards (20 regiments)
Overview: Initially an armor and infantry force established in 2341 to defend the first Lyran capital the Arcturan Guard drew its membership directly from the residents of that world. However, their role soon changed as Arcturus steadily declined in prominence following the government’s move to Tharkad in 2407. Today only a quarter of their forces come from Arcturus via official mandate. Following the Lyran Civil War the Guard became the unofficial unit of the Tamar Pact which the planet was originally a part of. Following the disbandment of the old Tamar military apparatus many natives began requesting billets here. While much has changed since that time, the introduction of the BattleMech for instance, the Guard still remains a premier formation in the Commonwealth military. Since its foundation the unit has seen service in every conflict and contributed significantly to the defense of the nation.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Arcturan Guard (?), 2nd Arcturan Guard (?), 3rd Arcturan Guard (?), 4th Arcturan Guard (?), 5th Arcturan Guard (?), 6th Arcturan Guard (?), 7th Arcturan Guard (?), 8th Arcturan Guard (?), 9th Arcturan Guard (?), 10th Arcturan Guard (?), 11th Arcturan Guard (The Golden Lions), 12th Arcturan Guard (?), 13th Arcturan Guard (?), 14th Arcturan Guard (?), 15th Arcturan Guard (Stavlos Tigers), 16th Arcturan Guard (?), 17th Arcturan Guard (Kezla Rams), 18th Arcturan Guard (?), 19th Arcturan Guard (Puma), 20th Arcturan Guard (White Bears of Uther) [two nicknames will be the Arcturan Northern Nomads and Tharkan Woodsmen see HSSB p. 69 - 23rd Arcturan Guards aka the Frost Giants]
What Arcturan units can we prove exist at this time?
Any other hooks we can replace the loss of Tamar personnel with??
How many should we skim from the Arcturan Guard and the Skye Rangers to create the Tamar Jaegers?
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Ice the Tamar Hussars (aka the Tamar Tigers) are a single regiment and that is already set. We could discuss the possibility that this unit was not yet considered line at the time of this report freeing a single regiment for other use. Just floating the idea - I really don't like it though.
I misread it.
I thought they were the Jaegers :(
And for cutting, what about 2 of each?
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Alright how about this. From the Skye Rangers we take three regiments reducing them to an even dozen while the Arcturan Guards give five regiments reducing them to fifteen total. This would free up eight regiments total for the Tamar Jaegers - I think that is good numbers for all those organizations. So here is a revised overall strength for the LCAF circa 2785 based on my executive decision.
LCAF (122 regiments)
Royal Guards (4 regiments)
Lyran Guard (50 regiments)
Arcturan Guards* (15 regiments)
Donegal Guards (20 regiments)
Lyran Regulars (12 regiments)
Skye Rangers* (12 regiments)
Tamar Jaegers* (8 regiments)
Tamar Hussars (1 regiment)
A few more notes on the Jaegers. Their overall size was limited thanks to pressure from the Star League and the Archon's concern for "lashing out without orders". The Jaegers and the Hussars do not get along even though they are from the same region. The Hussars are likely seen as goodie two shoes who lack proper line experiience by the Jaegers who are also viewed dimly by their brethren who consider them loose cannons.
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A few more notes on the Jaegers. Their overall size was limited thanks to pressure from the Star League and the Archon's concern for "lashing out without orders". The Jaegers and the Hussars do not get along even though they are from the same region. The Hussars are likely seen as goodie two shoes who lack proper line experiience by the Jaegers who are also viewed dimly by their brethren who consider them loose cannons.
Sounds believable to me.
Ciao
Hessian
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Looks good to me too.
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One question we need to answer-
The Tamar Hussars- are we calling them the Hussars or the Tamar Tigers. They were originally the 1st Tamar Hussars, but are regularly referred to in the SBs as the Tamar Tigers. Is Tamar Tigers just a nickname that became so common it replaced Hussars? Personally I am inclined to say the regiment was originally the 1st Tamar Hussars but at some point (probably after they got battlemechs) they became the Tamar Tigers.
As for the difference between the Tigers and the Jaegers. The Tigers are the house troops of the Dukes of Tamar. They were the pride & joy of the dukes of Tamar and got the best equipment and training. They were also known for being very flamboyant and daring both in and out of battle.
The Jaegers are just another line formation, who don't get all of perks and publicity.
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One question we need to answer-
The Tamar Hussars- are we calling them the Hussars or the Tamar Tigers. They were originally the 1st Tamar Hussars, but are regularly referred to in the SBs as the Tamar Tigers. Is Tamar Tigers just a nickname that became so common it replaced Hussars?
Seems like a good idea to me(the simple solutions are often the best after all ;D)
Ciao
Hessian
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Great, I'm going to assemble a redone LCAF summary to account for the changes we've made and hopefully include more detail.
The official name of the Tigers is the Tamar Hussars although their nickname is more popular this is a precise report and likely something we mention in said text.
Plus the Jaegers are always doing the dirty work that often gets them into trouble but not the precious Tigers who are the Dukes pet. Good stuff!
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Well guys we are still working on Threat Assessments 2785 and thanks to Rainbow 6 we realized that our Lyran summary needed revision. He spotted the 2nd Tamar Jaegers in the short story Tactics of Betrayal which appeared in 25 Years of Art and Fiction. I had planned on introducing the Jagers later (opening stages of the 3rd Succession War) given the canon information that appeared in Camo Specs. However TPTB apparently have retconned them to an earlier date which I had no problem with. Special thanks also goes out to Tokage who is largely responsible for the feel of the Jaegers wish I really ran with. Hope you enjoy these notes. Also Bradshaw redid their insignia awhile back, enjoy!
Tamar Jaegers (8 regiments)
Overview: After the conclusion of the Lyran Civil War (circa 2506) the Commonwealth military established a new 4 regiment unit to represent the Tamar Pact. The restored command focusing on loyalty to House Steiner was named Jaegers in recognition of their newly pledged fealty. The formation has always striven for but never truly attained the martial excellence of their Tamarian forbearers. Even though the LCAF continually pushed the Jaegers to achieve devotion to the Steiners has always eclipsed this long term goal. Efforts to win the Jaegers’ devotion took a twist after the infamous “Day of Rage†which forever shattered their trust in the Archon. Realizing that the soldiers of Tamar might always be hostile to the Steiners the Lyran royal family successfully plotted to out their anger to good use. Hatred of the Draconis Combine and even the Rim Worlds was encouraged by recruiting practices, training methods, extensive propaganda, along with other innovative efforts. Kurita and Amaris were made into easy scapegoats by the Archons who promoted ill will towards their neighbors as a way to distract against domestic discontent. Such hatred fostered a ruthless attitude that soon bought the Jaegers a reputation for brutality. Their hatred of the Dragon is so intense that even Rasalhague natives have come to fear their very approach. These denizens might be sympathetic to Lyran efforts to liberate their worlds from Kurita rule if not for the Jaegers continued cruelty. Second only to their dislike of the Dragon is the Rim Worlds Republic whose homelands they now help occupy. Ill will from the Reunification War and the recent Amaris Coup have given the Jaegers another target for their anger. The Jaegers were a constant irritant to the SLDF who always had to account for their rages. While the command expanded to eight BattleMech regiments during the Star League era further expansion was curtailed by the Steiners who had their reasons to halt said growth. The Jaegers don’t get along with the Tamar Hussars who they view as premadonnas.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see Tactics of Betrayal and Camo Specs
Child Units: 1st Tamar Jaegers, 2nd Tamar Jaegers, 3rd Tamar Jaegers, 4th Tamar Jaegers, 5th Tamar Jaegers, 6th Tamar Jaegers, 7th Tamar Jaegers, 8th Tamar Jaegers
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Saw this over on the CBT boards, like the Division symbol too.
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8)
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We have been discussing the Tamar Jaegers in the kampfgruppe Steiner thread over on the CBT boards and these images from the original camospecs book have been put on there, so i thought i'd share.
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Could you post a link Six? Thanks. Here is the redone Jeagers insignia done by Bradshaw and another version I found long ago on the net. Enjoy!
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It's not been that interesting to be honest but here you go.
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=31749.992
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I like the redone logo.