OBT Forum

NO A LAM WOULD NOT BE USEFUL FOR THIS CONCEPT.  for garrision duty a LAM is the last possible thing you need.

1) The Clans warrior mentality does not promote cross training between disciplines.  you were born to do one thing and one thing only.

2) The Technical demands of manufacturing and maitnainence are cost prohibitive to the extreme.  even the Society by Wars of Reaving time thrived on producing cheap tech that was easy to produce and maintain.  any exceptions to the contrary (Cephalus) were limited few and far between

3)  Remember the four Key Pillars from TRO 3085.  Extensive cutting edge tech (The Clans have this) that tech being valued (Clans value the warrior more then the machine), massive military funding (Clan Command Economy gives me headaches) and a hyper massive military force that permits economies of scale to absorb the cost (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA)

Ideas aplenty but currently revamping my Order of Battle to streamline my Touman.  I  am working on my Field Manual trying to refine it.

I would use the Lam as a garrison unit on semi-important worlds for the expense. I am for using failed mechwarriors over aerospace pilots and two Lams per point.  When me and my friends do the invasion of the Inner Sphere Clan Fennec has replaced Clan Smoke Jaguar as an Invading Clan. We have beaten the DCMS using both Zellbrigen and Inner Sphere Tactics. My Clan still retains it's SLDF heritage of Special Operations. We have kept it secret by using them against Dark Caste troops only now we fully exploit our wide range of skills against the Combine and have not needed to bring in another Clan for reinforcement.

to Answer the Lexatech Industries question, the annihilation of the facility was absolute, and the structure was torn down.  Irece Facility Alpha was raised in it's place.

as far as "Rapid Deployment" you speak, of course, of the broken ruled Airmech mode.  for garrison duty in an open fielded area such as an agrarian world, you may well be right, but garrison in an urban area Airmechs are a crash waiting to happen, and their enhanced ability to vault buildings is barely worth the effort put into manufacturing.  lets remember the last word in urban combatants, the Urbanmech, jumps only 2 MP.  the sidesliping and control roles for urban garrisoning would be a terrible idea.

as far as the economics... let me reiterate, it took the Star Leauge's combined economy to make LAMs viable, six houses and four periphery states.  LAMs were on a death spiral ever since.  unless you can create a convincing argument that the clans are as wealthy or more wealthy then the entirety of the Inner Sphere (to which I would laugh) you are barking up the wrong tree.

Land Air Mechs are an Offensive weapon, not defensive, and when placed on the defense you are in prepared positions out of sight lines and you wait for your foe to come to you, you do not go to them.  doing so would leave what you are supposed to protect unguarded.

Some good ideas guys, enjoying the discussion!

Rather than a garrison unit let me go in another direction something I was just thinking about. With the Truce of Tukayyid only recently established and ComStar's duplicity during the Great Battle coming to light with the failure of Operation Scorpion there have been calls to resume the Crusade. The ilKhan citing the poor condition of some Invaders and indicating the drafting of a new war plan has authorized punitive strikes by the Clans. While forbidden to take worlds below the Truce Line there is no prohibition on raids which can not only destroy enemy forces and take valuable supplies with which to rebuild and enhance the Clan position in the InnerSphere. Many warriors especially Crusaders were eager to undertake these raids which they could travel closer to Terra. With LAMs being an ideal raiding and recon unit they are chosen further this Line Crossing which carries extra honor akin to the Native American Counting Coup (who can come the closest to Terra and return, bonus without damage i.e. wasting resources). Warriors must retrain and retest themselves so as to earn the honor of these sacred missions. What do you guys think??

This change in mission statement would address the concerns of JPArbiter and LordGrayson perhaps justifying the expense of such an undertaking. Admittedly I do agree with JP that such an effort would be costly to the Clans but we could always use the handwavium of it sounds good so we did it. I do think that the technological progression of the Clans will lower the cost of producing new LAMS somewhat but that said I will have to reflect the enormous cost in the story somehow. Perhaps the Line Crossing raids are a way to pay for the project as well??

Probably going to start out with elite Crusader LAM Stars if I go forward with this idea Lord Grayson, say 3052 to 3057. Eventually working to Trinary strength (3057 to 3062) in most cases with perhaps some crazy Clan focusing all to most of its LAMs in a single Cluster by 3067 the time of Staklas Nomen (the resumption of the invasion).

Clan Techs is another good angle to bring to this discussion LordGrayson. After all these years working on OmniMechs what do you think they would think of LAMs? Probably wouldn't like them much either. The Scientist Caste I could see getting into them as technological marvels but the Techs would likely scorn them for real world concerns.

I like the idea of other Clans eventually participating in the LAM program. Diamond Sharks drawn by new enterprises, Goliath Scorpion for the old school SLDF ideas, Hell's Horses I'd like to for their focus on combined arms, Star Adder for added military value, Ice Hellion possibly for speed in raiding, Jade Falcon possibly as they are researching it but Ghost Bear? I think they would take a cautious approach to this new LAM project and wait to see how it worked out.

Thanks Abele, I think the 5/8/5 Airwolf is the way to go as more speed seems wiser with this approach.

Right you are Arbiter, I reread the bit in Invading Clans and the Nova Cats are sadists when it comes to LAM factories. Yes the rapid deployment I do speak of is the AirMech mode but also the ability to get there quickly as a fighter then change as needed to meet certain threats.

LordGrayson I don't know about just producing upgraded Stinger LAMs but I would ask what kind of force would the Clans have in mothballs in a Brain Cache somewhere? Do you think all LAMs were used as target practice??

I suppose refitted Phoenix Hawks, Stingers, and Wasps could be the first wave of these Clan raiders along with the prototype AirWolf LAM. I'm sure Clan Wolf could scrounge up four or five stars to begin with (or maybe we go to the extreme of 8 stars equaling 40 warriors analogous to the start of a Clan) that have either been salvaged in the InnerSphere, activated from Caches, or newly built test beds.

Let me draw up a list and comment on it for each Clan and I agree with you for the Cloud Cobras and Snow Raven, think each Clan would recognize the use for these machines.

Potential LAM Use Attitudes for the Clans to 3067
Wolf – Yes, the first originator of the whole LAM Revival if you will
Jade Falcon – Yes, the second and chief competitor of the idea perhaps developing its own LAM
Diamond Shark – Yes, likely third as an Invader and possibly the fiscal backer of wider deployment
Star Adder – Yes, the first homeworld Clan to recognize the LAMs potential military value
Hell's Horses – Yes, close on Star Adder's heels thanks to their focus on combined arms combat
Ice Hellion – Yes, the speed advantages of the LAM quickly draw the Hellion's attention
Snow Raven – Yes, the naval Clan perhaps backs homeworld reseach in the way Diamond Shark did in the InnerSphere
Cloud Cobra – Yes, despite their wealth the LAM has too many inherit similarities with this Clan's touman
Goliath Scorpion – Yes, old school Star League military thinking combined with a little necrosia
Burrock – Yes, despite their poor resources this dark Clan is looking for an advantage over its old foe
Blood Spirit – No, perhaps the poorest Clan and Burrock's quick use of LAMs could poison them even more to the idea
Fire Mandrill – No, split between warring Kindraa whose resources are pretty thin anyway
Steel Viper – No, while their invasion resources given them added potential they likely waver and come late to the game
Smoke Jaguar – No, however given Nova Cats apparent hatred of LAMs they could go for it just to spite their old foe
Coyote – No, staunch Warden traditionalist although their friendship with the Wolves may eventually bring them into yes
Nova Cat – No, LAM haters perhaps a vision could eventually change their mind
Ghost Bear – No, too cautious historically the last to field the Omni despite their resource wealth

Do got to wonder on how the LAM star would be formed up as either 5 mechs or 10 mechs

Oh I got you now. Should they be group as Mechs (5) or Fighters (10)? Well I was thinking a Star of Five like Mechs cause that was just my first instinct. What do you guys think??

Also as far as pilots would clanners be open to failed pilots testing for them in a second position test or would they open them to Free Birth pilots to possably make new blood lines that combine the best of both aero and mech pilots from Free Birth personal giving them a larger pool to from which to choose pilots. I do think some of this will be choosen on what clan is willing to tolerate as Clan Wolf is likely open to free birth pilots and maybe even second tests for failed pilots well other clan's either aren't open to the Free Birth angle or maybe against the 2nd test option

I don't know if Wolf of 3052 will embrace the failed trueborns retrain and retest idea. Freebirth or even captured pilots could be an option for them as I suggested. I think trueborns will jump at the idea of being able to raid the InnerSphere for the glory of being the Clan warrior to journey closest Terra. Now Jade Falcon which I see as second to the concept I would see using such Crusader volunteers and/or failed trueborns (perhaps in Aidan Pryde fashion) to fill out their LAM force, aka no freeborns need apply.

Nova LAM Star
5/10 LAM's
5/10 points of Battle Armor
 
Go Clan Marines

Haha! Although I could see Snow Raven doing it.