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Author Topic: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)  (Read 13127 times)

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Takiro

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2020, 08:42:46 PM »
I'd have agree that these Low-Tech Mechs will proliferate the entire InnerSphere eventually. The Outback is a good candidate candidate for sure but so is the Draconis March. Plus they can get a little more sophisticated with Fuel Cell Engines.
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Takiro

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2020, 08:34:51 AM »
Warrior
Design Basis: Commando
Weight Displacement: 25 tons
   Equipment                                                                        Mass
Internal Structure:                                                                2.5
Engine:                                   100 ICE                                  6
   Walking MP:                       4
   Running MP:                      6
Power Amplifiers:                                                                 0
Heat Sinks:                            5                                              5
Gyro:                                                                                       1
Cockpit:                                                                                  3
Armor Factor:                        72                                           4.5
   Weapons and Ammo:    Location       Criticals             
SRM-4                                CT                        1                     2
Ammo (SRM) 25               CT                        1                     1

Replicating the Commando as a 'RetroMech' armed with SRMs made sense with the Gnat and Pilum designs already in place. Using a 100 ICE, like the Gnat, allowed it to reach the cruising speed of its forbearer at maximum acceleration and made possible the use of a one ton gyroscope. An SRM-4 located in the center torso with a single ton of amination was the Mech's sole weapon which was cooled by five Heat Sinks. The Warrior has a half ton more armor protection than the Commando which makes for slightly better protective characteristics.

A Warrior working with the Pilum and the Gnat can be most effective as each ICE Mech can support the other. Their different weapons and speeds are complementary which allow them to work in concert as a team.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 08:36:35 AM by Takiro »
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Takiro

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2020, 08:43:23 AM »
I am looking for a Light Command Mech (which could possibly be a medium) to finish off the auxiliary lance with the Gnat, Warrior, and Pilum. If you have ideas for conversions of existing canon designs (TRO 3025) to ICE Mechs I'd love to see them. Plus if you think you can do better please fire away!

ICE Mechs are a bit different from canon RetroTech which seems to have gone away from lower grade engines (ICE, Fuel Cell, Fission) which I've really embraced here. Canon often uses 'Primitive' armor, cockpit, and engines (which still seem to be fusion but not optimal rated engines) which is a bit different from the plan here. Discussion is welcome on those differences as well.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2020, 05:15:27 PM »
Quote from: Takiro on October 31, 2010, 10:48:19 PM
No Integral Heat Sinks. Since internal combustion engine equipped BattleMechs come with no free heat sinks 2 or 3 tons must be preserved for heat sinks right at the start of construction to dissipate heat created by movement. Additional heat sinks must be added for weaponry also.

True but why would they generate heat for moving? If you look at the rules for Industrial 'Mechs, this is not the case and unlike vehicles, they don't need to cool all the heat generated by their energy weapons (this is how I read the examples for Industrial 'Mechs).
For me, the rules in Explorer Corps aren't in conflict with that.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 05:24:25 PM by Ice Hellion »
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2020, 05:27:47 PM »
And following my interpretation, I give you the Hoplomachus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplomachus)
.

I didn't fluff it and just wrote down the stats for a 'Mech for your auxiliary lance (based on the Swordsman, hence the Latin/Greek name).

Code: [Select]
Hoplomachus

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-C-D-A
Production Year: 2750
Dry Cost: 1 963 360 C-Bills
Total Cost: 2 002 860 C-Bills
Battle Value: 670

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 120 I.C.E.
Walking Speed: 32,4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54,0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Autocannon/5
    1  LRM-5
    2  Machine Guns
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      67 points                4,00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                120                       8,00
    Walking MP: 3
    Running MP: 5
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0,00
Gyro:               Standard                                               2,00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3,00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 136                  8,50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     12           17       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     10           15       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     6            12       
                                             L/R Leg     10           20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autocannon/5                                 RT        1         4         8,00
LRM-5                                        LT        2         1         2,00
Machine Gun                                  RA        0         1         0,50
Machine Gun                                  LA        0         1         0,50
@AC/5 (40)                                   RT        -         2         2,00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  LT        -         1         1,00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              LT        -         1         0,50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 36

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 7
3          0       0       0       0      2     1   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: SRCH, EE, ES, SEAL, SOA

Logged


"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

David CGB

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2020, 06:20:09 PM »
Nice, I can see all four working together, perfectly dealing with most light threats with out problem!!
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Takiro

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2020, 06:33:23 PM »
Quote from: Ice Hellion on May 31, 2020, 05:15:27 PM
Quote from: Takiro on October 31, 2010, 10:48:19 PM
No Integral Heat Sinks. Since internal combustion engine equipped BattleMechs come with no free heat sinks 2 or 3 tons must be preserved for heat sinks right at the start of construction to dissipate heat created by movement. Additional heat sinks must be added for weaponry also.

True but why would they generate heat for moving? If you look at the rules for Industrial 'Mechs, this is not the case and unlike vehicles, they don't need to cool all the heat generated by their energy weapons (this is how I read the examples for Industrial 'Mechs).
For me, the rules in Explorer Corps aren't in conflict with that.

The way I thought it was movement and weapon fire had to be accounted for??
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Takiro

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2020, 06:11:12 AM »
Hello folks, I did seek 'rule' clarification from the community at large over on the CBT Forums regarding our little question here. Glitterboy2098 knocked it out of the park with the quote below from Total War.

Quote from: glitterboy2098 on June 01, 2020, 04:19:34 AM
Total War, page 158

Fuel Cell and ICE-Powered IndustrialMechs: ICE-powered IndustrialMechs generate no heat from walking or running, a side effect of their engine and structural designs.

1. Weapon fire of any kind generates heat.

2. It is because of their engine and structural designs that ICE powered Industrials generate no movement heat.

Now because this is my homebrew creation which is different from canon the major wording I read there is structural. Since we will be designing Alternate Powered BattleMechs instead of armed IndustrialMechs with their structural differences I'd have to say that they do generate heat from movement.

I am opened to debate on this movement heat issue but I am afraid that I can't accept your ICE Swordsman with no Heat Sinks.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2020, 01:39:01 PM »
Quote from: Takiro on June 01, 2020, 06:11:12 AM
Now because this is my homebrew creation which is different from canon the major wording I read there is structural. Since we will be designing Alternate Powered BattleMechs instead of armed IndustrialMechs with their structural differences I'd have to say that they do generate heat from movement.

I am opened to debate on this movement heat issue but I am afraid that I can't accept your ICE Swordsman with no Heat Sinks.

Your rules.

I reworked the Hoplomachus and make a second one too.

Code: [Select]
Hoplomachus

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-C-D-A
Production Year: 2750
Dry Cost: 1 966 160 C-Bills
Total Cost: 2 001 160 C-Bills
Battle Value: 679

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 120 I.C.E.
Walking Speed: 32,4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54,0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Autocannon/5
    1  LRM-5
    2  Machine Guns
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      67 points                4,00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                120                       8,00
    Walking MP: 3
    Running MP: 5
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             1                         1,00
Gyro:               Standard                                               2,00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3,00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 136                  8,50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     12           17       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     10           15       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     6            12       
                                             L/R Leg     10           20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autocannon/5                                 RT        1         4         8,00
LRM-5                                        LT        2         1         2,00
Machine Gun                                  RA        0         1         0,50
Machine Gun                                  LA        0         1         0,50
@AC/5 (20)                                   RT        -         1         1,00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  LT        -         1         1,00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              LT        -         1         0,50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 37

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 7
3          1       1       1       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: SRCH, EE, ES, SEAL, SOA

Code: [Select]
Hoplomachus 2

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-D-D-A
Production Year: 2750
Dry Cost: 1 950 760 C-Bills
Total Cost: 1 982 260 C-Bills
Battle Value: 635

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 120 I.C.E.
Walking Speed: 32,4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54,0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Medium Laser
    1  LRM-5
    1  Autocannon/2
    1  Machine Gun
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      67 points                4,00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                120                       8,00
    Walking MP: 3
    Running MP: 5
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             3                         3,00
Gyro:               Standard                                               2,00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3,00
Power Amplifiers:                                                          0,50
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 120                  7,50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     12           18       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  5         
                                           L/R Torso     10           15       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  4         
                                             L/R Arm     6            11       
                                             L/R Leg     10           14       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autocannon/2                                 RT        1         1         6,00
LRM-5                                        LT        2         1         2,00
Medium Laser                                 RA        3         1         1,00
Machine Gun                                  LA        0         1         0,50
@AC/2 (45)                                   RT        -         1         1,00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  LT        -         1         1,00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              LT        -         1         0,50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 40

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 6
3          1       1       1       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: SRCH, EE, ES, SEAL, SOA
Logged


"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2020, 05:33:33 AM »
I just looked over WorkMechs and they are very different from what I am proposing here. These are BattleMechs powered by Low Tech Engines which is certainly not canon. So this would be a unique creation to Salient Horizons begun by the Marian Hegemony with help coming from the Taurians under a paranoid Thomas and spurred by the Free Worlds League Civil War.

Ice has me questioning the zero heat principle at the moment which I may enforce. What are the effects of overheating an ICE (Fuel Cell or Fission) Mech after all? Another way it could go boom I think. Perhaps this is another reason why they should be designed on the zero heat principle of conventional vehicles (meaning you must carry as many Heat Sinks as heat you can generate).

I am also considering a lower movement heat for ICE and Fuel Cell equipped BattleMechs (1 for walking or running).

What do you guys think??
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Takiro

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2020, 03:47:47 PM »
Came up with two new 'RetroMechs' today based on 3025. Ice you'll no doubt see the similarities between my 40 tonner and yours. I designed mine on the 'zero heat principle' which is similar to conventional vehicles. I will probably require this going forward. Let me know what you guys think about the Outrider and the Overseer.

Outrider
Design Basis: Ostscout (or Spider)
Weight Displacement: 35 tons
   Equipment                                                                        Mass                       
Internal Structure:                                                                3.5
Engine:                                   175 ICE                                14
   Walking MP:                       5
   Running MP:                       8
Power Amplifiers:                                                                 0.5
Heat Sinks:                            5                                              5
Gyro:                                                                                       2
Cockpit:                                                                                  3
Armor Factor:                        88                                           5.5
   Weapons and Ammo:    Location       Criticals             
Medium Laser                       CT                      1                     1
Remote Sensor Dispenser   CT                     1                      .5

The Outrider is based on the Ostscout and manages to match the Gnat's high-end speed of eighty one kilometers per hour for RetroMechs. Protected by five and half tons of armor this unit can operate independently thanks to its Medium Laser. A small half-ton amplifer allows the 175 ICE power plant to ulitize this energy weapon. Five Heat Sinks cool the Outrider sufficiently which can also lay Remote Sensors to augment its vanguard duties.

Overseer
Design Basis: Clint (or Hermes II)
Weight Displacement: 40 tons
   Equipment                                                                        Mass                       
Internal Structure:                                                                4
Engine:                                   160 ICE                                12
   Walking MP:                       4
   Running MP:                      6
Power Amplifiers:                                                                 0
Heat Sinks:                            3                                              3
Gyro:                                                                                       2
Cockpit:                                                                                  3
Armor Factor:                        112                                         7
   Weapons and Ammo:    Location       Criticals             
AC/5                                     RA                        4                     8
Ammo (AC) 20                    RT                        1                     1

The Overseer RetroMech shares many characteristics with the Clint or Hermes II and often serves as the command unit of such auxiliary lances. Also serves as a lightweight medium sniper with max speeds matching  the cruising speed of its more modern analogs. This is accomplished by using a 160 ICE to power the Mech which requires only a two ton gyroscope. The venerable Autocannon/5 placed in the right arm, much like the Clint, serves as the Overseer's main weapon. Three Heat Sinks disperse all waste heat generated by weapon fire and movement while seven tons of armor do a solid job protecting it in combat.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 03:51:32 PM by Takiro »
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2020, 06:37:01 PM »
Quote from: Takiro on June 02, 2020, 03:47:47 PM
I designed mine on the 'zero heat principle' which is similar to conventional vehicles.

Aren't vehicles supposed to cool down only from firing energy weapons?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2020, 06:44:42 PM »
Yes but the principle still applies here with movement and all weapon fire.
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David CGB

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2020, 08:23:24 PM »
Quote from: Takiro on June 02, 2020, 06:44:42 PM
Yes but the principle still applies here with movement and all weapon fire.
When I played more often (90's) My friends and I would use mechs like this for low tech defense, and they added 1 crit more for non energy weapons to allow for cooling, you could try something like this???
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Takiro

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Re: Ice Project (ICE Mechs)
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2020, 08:54:37 PM »
Interesting homebrew idea
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