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Author Topic: Optimizing the Commando  (Read 6609 times)

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Bradshaw

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2019, 09:03:54 PM »

Just to be 100% clear, it is not an OmniMech but something that could be the forefather of the Inner Sphere designs. However to speed up things, I used the OmniMech option of SSW, making (if I remember well) the C-Bills and BV slightly wrong.

I did same thing sort of after saw Coventry was the first omnimech producer fir the FC. Nice fluff
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2019, 08:12:05 AM »

Drakensis also referenced the OmniMech project in his fluff as well.

Nice stuff Ice!
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2019, 03:45:24 PM »

Drakensis also referenced the OmniMech project in his fluff as well.

Nice stuff Ice!

I did same thing sort of after saw Coventry was the first omnimech producer fir the FC. Nice fluff

Ooops. I didn't see these two references :(
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Bradshaw

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2019, 03:54:24 PM »

Ooops. I didn't see these two references :(

All good great minds and all that jazz
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2019, 05:31:31 PM »

It's a good way to get the Nissan 200XL Engine on the Commando made at Coventry Metal Works.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2019, 09:00:01 AM »

It's a good way to get the Nissan 200XL Engine on the Commando made at Coventry Metal Works.

Just to be precise I checked in on sarna.net to see where the 200 XL Engine is produced. Now the Blackjack-O uses this power plant but it isn't produced on Coventry. Luthien, Irian, Shiro III, St. Ives, and Warlock all seem to crank it out. Solaris does have two dueling Mechs (Koto and Werewolf) which use the Nissan 200 XL as does Stewart for the Tarantula. I still have to check our first 3 contests for use of 200 XL Engine as well.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2019, 10:50:09 AM »

I tried to use one on my Locust Dasher and you said wasn't available.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2019, 02:51:44 PM »

One day remaining for this challenge and yes your quite right Bradshaw the 200 XL was not endorsed for the Dasher Locust beyond a few prototypes. Here with the Commando things are a little different in justifying the upgrade. Future production of the Nissan 200 XL is one good reason and the other to me is this Mechs place in the AFFC. Along with the Valkyrie it is one the two core Light Mechs of the Federated Commonwealth which justifies such an extravagance. Plus the other 20 ton Bugs we did have significantly less durability.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2019, 04:50:49 PM »

Last day folks for the Commando challenge. About 7 hours remaining till end of contest!
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2019, 08:24:09 AM »

Okay folks this contest is now over. Let the judging begin.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2019, 10:38:33 PM »

With eight designers coming up with two dozen different entries I put in quite a bit of work looking this all over. Combining certain entries as variants reduced the final ranking to just nineteen overall designs. I’d like to thank everyone who participated for their efforts as I really thought this was a top notch contest. Let’s get down to it with a review of all nineteen put forth and where they finished.

19. COM-4S (drakensis) – this is my only disappointment of the challenge as my initial glance thought it would certainly be a contender for the top Steiner model which had six such entries. This high tech upgrade featuring the soon to be manufactured Nissan 200 XL Engine (8/12 MP) was well justified with excellent fluff stating Coventry’s proximity above the Truce line and the Metal Work’s involvement in the OmniMech program were powerful motivators in expediting this model. Using EndoSteel and five tons of Ferro-Fibrous for max protection of this 25-ton Striker made sense as the 5S already did so. With weaponry apparently unchanged all looked good but upon further inspection a ton is unaccounted for leading to its placement here. Too bad cause there is a lot of potential here.

18. COM-5SVL (Abele) – the speedy technophile led effort to match the Clan Dasher by fielding three 250 XL Engine variants was a bit much for me. It probably could have been done but with a price tag of nearly 4.5 million c-bills this would have been the most expensive Commando ever before produced. While the Federated Commonwealth has deep pockets and is willing to spend in the wake of the Clan Invasion I just don’t see them devoting resources to this unique customization, sorry.   

17. COM-2L (Abele) – the Ying-zi-bing is perhaps the most out of the box entry in this contest which mixes a salvaged Commando with first run Raven to create a unique Liao ‘Mech. Using the 175 Fusion Engine (7/11 MP) from this stealthy Capellan prototype enhances this variant’s speed. Three and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous did improve the Mech’s overall protection but I am a fan of max armor. I can get over that but what is the biggest negative to me is the lesser armament of a Streak SRM-2, Medium Pulse, and Flamer which reduces not only firepower but range as well. The Guardian ECM Suite is a nice plus for the Commando though but unfortunately not enough to improve its position here. 

16. COM-6S & 7S (Irose) – one of the first Steiner upgrades went back most appropriately to the initial models of the Commando to produce a long range energy sniper. The 6S mounted six jump jets for enhanced mobility while the 7S removed those to feature a Beagle Active Probe and TAG making it more of a scout spotter. Not bad refits as they just simply replaced the existing armament and kept much of the 5S lostech enhancements. Its placement here is mostly due to the high level of competition rather than any overwhelming negatives. 

15. COM-FC1 & FC2 (Bradshaw) – not a bad idea going for the test bed justification of InnerSphere OmniMechs utilizing the 5S as a basis. EndoSteel, Ferro-Fibrous with CASE, and the original 150 Fusion Engine were fine carryovers. However, both models did something that I don’t care for which is use Artemis IV FCS to guide small missile racks to more favorable to hit results. I just would have preferred other uses for these two tons of equipment which is just not good to me.

14. COM-3D (Abele) – our first entry heavily based on the 5S was to be a FedCom upgrade for mercenaries which swapped out existing weaponry for a mixed arsenal. With an LRM-5, Streak SRM-2, Medium Pulse, and Small Laser this variant changes its role to more of a support machine. While intriguing other concepts just eclipsed it.

13. COM-99S (Ice Hellion) – First off I have to say that I loved your fluff the best even though it was a shameless pitch to the judge. Matrix and the OmniMech program go well together but I think you went a little too far modularizing the Commando. Such a project may indeed occur in the future but right now is beyond the technical capabilities of the InnerSphere. Aside from that it wasn’t too advanced and could have stood a better chance without going the full nine yards.

     Near Misses

12. COM-2T (Bradshaw) – This lostech Taurian upgrade is pretty damn good but just got beat by better competition. Using four tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor, ten doubled (20) heat sinks, four Medium Lasers, four Small Lasers, and two Flamers such a war machine would have pretty good firepower even though it would have to get closer to strike. Very close bud, our first near miss. 

11. COM-8S (Irose) – Another really solid entry was this highly mobile AFFC raider designed to match the Spider’s movement with a newly manufactured Edasich Motors 200XL Engine and Jump Jets (8/12/8). EndoSteel is a plus and since so many bulky jump jets were used there was no room for ferro fibrous which is fine by me. Three Medium Lasers and a Flamer constitute pretty good weaponry but unfortunately I thought other designs were better. Great try though.

10. COM-4B (drakensis) – Liked the concept for the ‘Baby Panther’ first deployed by DCMS Mechwarriors who salvaged some Commandos but were uncomfortable enough about it to change it up a bit. Also used by the FWLM in much the same way this intriguing concept nearly won a space here but without Double Heat Sinks I found it hard to believe that such a high heat weapon like an ER Large would be utilized at all by these Steiner rivals. I’d like to work on it some more with you and keep this variant for these foreign powers but right now it finishes here.

9. COM-4T (Irose) – I thought for sure that this innovative light urban assault unit would win a spot on the winners list this week around. This innovative Taurian design would reduce the engine size to a 100 Fusion and as a consequence reduce its gyroscope to a single ton as well opening up plenty of mass. Adding four Jump Jets changed its movement profile to 4/6/4 and five tons of ferro-fibrous armor maxed this slow 25 tonners protection. Three Streak SRM-2s supplied by a single ton of ammo (50) and three Medium Lasers laid down a pretty impressive rate of fire. While I debated including this as a second Taurian model the 4T just narrowly missed the cut, sorry Irose.

8. COM-2AD (David CGB) – These two high tech Davion variants were what I called the agonizer this week. I went back and forth on this interesting expansion project which would make a certain amount of sense given the AFFC’s prioritization of the Commando as one of its two Light Mechs. First off, love the design and it certainly would benefit the Federated Commonwealth. Despite the canon citations for Antietam and its ruling family I can find little evidence that the planet possesses the necessary tech or industrial base for the establishment of a new Mech factory. I could get over that if this variant wasn’t so cutting edge with a new XL Fusion Engine, EndoSteel, Ferro-Fibrous, Double Heat Sinks, and an ER Large all necessary for manufacturing. Imports could make up some true but the chassis itself being made of EndoSteel was sadly too much for me in the end. I just can’t see Antietam going from nothing to something so fast without a foundation so I regret to say the COM-2AD missed the cut.

     Winners

7. KOM-3R (Takiro) – being the harshest on my own design I had to place it here as it will just barely make the cut. Considering what I just said of David CGB COM-2AD design it too faces a realism challenge which necessitated limiting manufacturing at least for the time being. No more than ten will be deployed during the conflict whose outcome I am really uncertain about. This Mech is a preview model which will be appearing in small numbers with the Varangian Guard during the unfolding Marik Civil War. These Rasalhague exiles based on Illyria back a Periphery based Marik faction which will be viewed as ‘foreigners’ because of in part of their use of Steiner and Kurita ‘Mechs. Should be fun!

6. COM-3FR (Abele) –this was one of the best new manufacturers of the Commando in the contest as Abele used Hope Industrial Works which eventually does so in canon. Granted this is way ahead of time as the factory doesn’t go fully active until 3079 and doesn’t make the actual Mech till 3139. However, he never calls for full production rather the Commando is a refit that only extends to a handful of machines. His design is also a downgrade in some ways using a 100 Fusion Engine salvaged from a Hornet and Jump Jets to change the Commando to a slower but mobile Mech. [This is a lot like the COM-4T by Irose which makes me think of a connection to his Taurian effort, perhaps another defection to these anti-bandit forces] The armament is decidedly different with an LRM-10, 2 Medium Lasers, and a Small Laser for something of a mixed range arsenal. There are also lostech elements like Ferro-Fibrous and a CASE which are used to improve its defense. I am still debating the official Randis designation though, perhaps just an ‘F’ for Fiefdom? In any event well done Abele!

5. COM-4D (drakensis) – what will become the 5D officially in the Salient Horizon universe and the Davion model is a rather simple upgrade swapping SRMs for LRM-5s. This cut-rate Valkyrie continues the Light Mech featuring LRMs which serves a harasser for those Sons of the Suns who so choose to utilize it. It also upgrades the Medium Laser to a Pulse. Other than that, it resembles the 5S model which preceded it with EndoSteel and Ferro-Fibrous. I would be opened to future expansion of this model to a location in the Federated Suns like David CGB tried to do with his 2AD model but it would have to be at a more appropriate locale. I will leave that to you guys though, nice job drak!

4. COM-4V (drakensis) – well I didn’t see this one coming in our InnerSphere contest but this Steel Viper refit of the Commando sure makes for a great concept. The Clan with the Mercer Doctrine which at first seems to desire cooperation with its Spheroid conquests but says Trueborns only thank you at the same time could use a ‘Police Mech’ which can be used by third rate freeborn bondsmen for Riot Control or SWAT duties. Technically Level 2 thanks to its CASE much of this refit is pure Level 1 goodness made with InnerSphere tech exclusively. What better for the lowest auxiliary units the Vipers could field to augment their Occupation Zone. Ten Machine Guns supplied by a half ton of ammo (100 shots total) and two Medium Lasers give it a real Piranha feel – can you say Diamond Shark Trial of Grievance? You stole our copyright the Clan version. Plus, it utilizes an existing InnerSphere factory now captured and under Viper control to refit salvaged Commandos. Gonna officially dub this the 5V - fantastic job drak!

3. COM-6S (masterarminas) – the highest tech Steiner upgrade using that Nissan 200XL Engine (8/12) which is soon to be produced on Solaris adds a second Medium Laser to its base weaponry as well as using five tons of ferro-fibrous for max armor protection. EndoSteel presumably from the 5S as well fits here and unlike drak’s 4S this one uses Double Heat Sinks which are somewhat justified. This version adds up unlike drak’s 4S and I liked it better than Irose’s Spider like 8S which was good. This will be a capable Light Mech in the arsenal of the AFFC going forward. Bronze medal for the 6S masterarminas!

2. COM-2M (Bradshaw) – keep it simple really works folks as this mercenary refit drops the SRM-6 and its ammo for two additional SRM-4s. Without lostech this model can overheat as a running Alpha Strike produces a +4 condition which has no consequence at first. I suppose Double Heat Sinks isn’t hard to come by if you want to get even better and this model also has only one ton of ammo each launcher can only fire eight times. Regardless of these drawbacks I really like this innovative yet decidedly lowtech approach which is now officially the 3M here. Any mercenary unit in particular that uses this model Bradshaw? Silver medal bud!

1. COM-3T (drakensis) – the best upgrade in my opinion comes from the Taurians who really thanks to drakensis turn the Commando into a stealthy flashbulb which really captures its namesake best. Using a Guardian ECM (which could tie into the Capellans somehow thanks to their Raven – perhaps some design help) and Double Heat Sinks the missile armament has been completely replaced by five Medium Lasers. These weapons provide the same range as before but with the benefit of being without the need for ammunition. This gives it the ability to be deployed for extended periods behind enemy lines wreaking havoc. The movement rate and chassis remain unchanged but the standard armor is increased to 5.5 tons for near full protection. Congrats drak, first place and three points overall for this contest!!!
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 10:39:39 PM by Takiro »
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Abele

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2019, 02:13:13 AM »

On to the Javelin (I think). I am as jazzed about this as I was the Commando, which is to say, not much.
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drakensis

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2019, 03:39:44 AM »

19. COM-4S (drakensis) – this is my only disappointment of the challenge as my initial glance thought it would certainly be a contender for the top Steiner model which had six such entries. This high tech upgrade featuring the soon to be manufactured Nissan 200 XL Engine (8/12 MP) was well justified with excellent fluff stating Coventry’s proximity above the Truce line and the Metal Work’s involvement in the OmniMech program were powerful motivators in expediting this model. Using EndoSteel and five tons of Ferro-Fibrous for max protection of this 25-ton Striker made sense as the 5S already did so. With weaponry apparently unchanged all looked good but upon further inspection a ton is unaccounted for leading to its placement here. Too bad cause there is a lot of potential here.
Checks. Bloody hell. How did I miss that? Sorry.

10. COM-4B (drakensis) – Liked the concept for the ‘Baby Panther’ first deployed by DCMS Mechwarriors who salvaged some Commandos but were uncomfortable enough about it to change it up a bit. Also used by the FWLM in much the same way this intriguing concept nearly won a space here but without Double Heat Sinks I found it hard to believe that such a high heat weapon like an ER Large would be utilized at all by these Steiner rivals. I’d like to work on it some more with you and keep this variant for these foreign powers but right now it finishes here.
I was thinking of the canonical DHS shortage in the Combine. If they didn't fit them to the PNT-10K then it's unlikely a refit of a foreign design would get them. Here's an alternative.

Commando COM-4B

Mass: 25 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-D-A
Production Year: 3052
Cost: 1,998,750 C-Bills
Battle Value: 637

Chassis: Coventry Metal Works Standard Standard
Power Plant: GM 150 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Lexington Ltd. High Grade Standard Armor Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  ER Large Laser
    1 Holly SRM-4
Manufacturer: Gibson Federated BattleMechs
    Primary Factory: Gibson
Communications System: TharHes Crystal Flower RG-2
Targeting and Tracking System: TharHes Star Shark

Overview:
In order to upgrade the DCMS' stock of salvaged Commando battlemechs, Theodore Kurita requested that the FWLM provide a refit package.

Gibson Federated BattleMech based their upgrade package upon the short-lived COM-1B of the late Third Succession War with an extended range laser. Double heatsinks are fitted to sustain the heat generated by the powerful laser.

More than a few COM-4B mechs lack the double heatsinks, these having 'mysteriously' been lost. Oddly, units where this is common have also been able to add double heatsinks to their PNT-10K Panthers.

Many DCMS mechwarriors uncomfortable with the foreign nature of salvaged Commandos have taken to having their techs styling the armour of their rides to reflect samurai motifs or simply the more angular appearance of a Panther. This has earned the design the nickname of 'Baby Panther'.


Code: [Select]
================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      43 points                2.50
Engine:             Fusion Engine                150                       5.50
    Walking MP: 6
    Running MP: 9
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT
Gyro:               Standard                                               2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  64                  4.00

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            6         
                                        Center Torso     8            8         
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  4         
                                           L/R Torso     6            6         
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  3         
                                             L/R Arm     4            6         
                                             L/R Leg     6            8         

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SRM-4                                        CT        3         1         2.00
ER Large Laser                               LA        12        2         5.00
@SRM-4 (25)                                  CT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 31

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      2    Points: 6
6          2       2       1       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2019, 06:15:30 AM »

Likely the Javelin is next which will be a challenging one for several reasons. It is a lot like the Commando on the surface and it is not an in production design in the first place. Hoping to have it up by Friday though.

Mistakes happen drak, I missed it myself initially. That baby panther would have probably worked better especially with the Marik Civil War happening and the need to field any and all Mechs. I'd probably pick another Province and manufacturer along the Lyran border though.

Did you have any thoughts about my comments on your winning 4D and 3T designs?
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Bradshaw

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Re: Optimizing the Commando
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2019, 09:39:14 AM »

it is not an in production design in the first place.

"The 10P model is an upgrade of the 10N model introduced by the Federated Commonwealth amid much secrecy in 3049."

So field variants came out in 3049 for the Javelin and in 3055 it began as a production model for the FC based on this field variant. Maybe we upgrade production date and changes can be based upon feedback from soldiers in the field on them.

I got to say I like its design and variants. Will be interesting to try and upgrade these compared to many other Canon designs.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 09:40:38 AM by Bradshaw »
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