OBT Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

AU Developers - Please PM Knightmare or MechRat if you need board or permission changes

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Optimizing the Goliath  (Read 25244 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Bradshaw

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,253
  • Expect it most when you expect it least
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2021, 09:16:36 PM »

Some intriguing concepts there guys. I've seen cargo space on Mechs before but not actual bays for infantry.

Think i had some on one of my earlier designs cant recall which though.

Edit was a scorpion design the RCT funny how both Quads
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 09:26:10 PM by Bradshaw »
Logged
NEVER trust a man who scratches his chin

masterarminas

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,515
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2021, 09:44:43 PM »

Some intriguing concepts there guys. I've seen cargo space on Mechs before but not actual bays for infantry.

Think i had some on one of my earlier designs cant recall which though.

Edit was a scorpion design the RCT funny how both Quads

Well, in some ways, the Goliath reminds me of a overgunned AT-AT from Star Wars.  I've always had that concept in the back of my head, but never actually tried it.  Hope I got the tonnage right, and like I said, the price tag may be off (I don't know the difference in cost between standard cargo bays and infantry bays).
Logged

lrose

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2021, 06:59:04 AM »

Engine replacement like internal structure and myomers needs a factory

I agree about that when it comes to internal structure- if you are swapping the IS you are basically building a new mech- Engines and Myomers are not quite the same.  I think in those cases you need a really well equipped workshop- I've seen photos of what the Israeli's have done with some of their tanks- they stripped Shermans down to bare chassis in workshops and then rebuilt them - new engines, weapons, etc. I picture engine swaps and myomer changes to be similar- you need to strip down the mech and that will require a well equipped workshop, but not a traditional factory.
Logged

Bradshaw

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,253
  • Expect it most when you expect it least
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2021, 09:00:53 AM »

I looked this up when I was contemplating a TSM upgrade for a design recently in a challenge. Pg 188-189 of Strategic Operations

Quote
Class A Refit (Field): This kit allows players to replace one weapon with another of the same category and with the same (or fewer) critical spaces (including ammunition). For example, players may replace a medium laser with a medium pulse laser or ER medium laser, or replace an AC/10 with an LB 10-X AC, and so on. Additionally, changing a weapon’s location or facing falls into this category.

Class B Refit (Field): This kit allows replacement of one category of weapon with another class of weapon(s), but with the same or fewer critical spaces (including ammunition); for example, replacing a machine gun and ammo with a small pulse laser, replacing a Gauss rifle with two large lasers (as they’re both the same class and have fewer critical slots), and so on.

Class C Refit (Maintenance): This kit allows players to replace one type of armor with another (all locations); for example, replacing standard armor with ferro-fibrous. A Class C kit also enables replacement of a weapon or item of equipment with any other, even if it is larger than the item(s) being replaced; for example, replacing an ER large laser with an LRM-10 launcher and ammunition. Players may also change armor quantity and/or distribution, move a component, or add ammunition or a heat sink.

Class D Refit (Maintenance): This kit permits players to install a new item where previously there was none, or to install an ECM suite, C3 system or targeting computer. Players may also change heat sink types (including those integral to an engine) or engine ratings (but not the engine type). Finally, a Class D kit allows players to replace a location with a custom part.

Class E Refit (Factory): This kit lets players change the type of myomer installed, install CASE, and/or increase the unit’s Quality Rating one level.

Class F Refit (Factory): This kit lets players change a unit’s internal structure type (all locations), engine type, gyro type, or cockpit type. If a fusion engine is replaced by another type of power plant, i.e. Fission or ICE, then the total number of heat sinks mounted should be adjusted as indicated on the bonus heat sink table (see p. 71, TM).

Refit Types
Refits fall into four categories: Field, Maintenance, Factory and Refurbishment.

Field: A field refi t can be attempted with little or no access to support facilities

Maintenance: More than a simple repair or replacement, this kind of refit requires access to the equipment and resources found in the appropriate type of transport cubicle (see Transport Bays, p. 239, TM).

Factory: A factory refi t is a long and involved process that requires a production facility capable of producing the unit in question.

Refurbishment: In spite of the best efforts of Technical Teams, a unit’s Quality Rating tends to degrade over time. This process can be reversed via refurbishment. No changes are made to the unit, but old parts are renovated or replaced, new or updated software installed and so on. Refurbishment is a Grade E refit and requires access to Factory-grade facilities. The base time required is a week for a vehicle, battle armor unit or ProtoMech, two weeks for a ’Mech, aerospace fighter or Small Craft, a month for a Drop-Ship or JumpShip, or three months for a WarShip or Space Station. The cost is equal to 10 percent of the unit’s base value (not modified for quality). Successful refurbishment improves the unit’s Quality Rating by one level, or the Quality Rating of each individual component if players are using this depth of detail. It is not possible to go beyond a rating of F.
Logged
NEVER trust a man who scratches his chin

Bradshaw

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,253
  • Expect it most when you expect it least
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2021, 09:07:09 AM »

In regards to cost I don't know but for tonnages this is what I found and use

Element
Cargo Space   Required tons
Foot Infantry 3 Tons
Jump Infantry 4 Tons
Motorized Infantry 6 Tons
Mechanized Infantry 5 Tons per 5 troopers
Battle Armor 1 Ton per Trooper
Logged
NEVER trust a man who scratches his chin

lrose

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2021, 10:42:35 AM »

I looked this up when I was contemplating a TSM upgrade for a design recently in a challenge. Pg 188-189 of Strategic Operations

Those rules don't look like they represent what happens today in the real world.  Sure you need a fully supplied workshop, but the Israelis were completely rebuilding tanks well before they had the ability to build new tanks.  The rules also don't make a lot of sense- apparently it is easier to replace the small laser on a Charger with an AC/20 (Class C Refit) then it is to replace the 400 rated engine with a 240 rated engines (yes I know by game rules all standard engines are the same size/take up the same space in a mech but in reality the 400 should be much larger then a 240 - I just look at this as a case of the rules being abstracted because otherwise it would get too confusing for no real reason.)

Realistically there should probably be a level between Maintenance and Factory of Workshop- which is would be a well equipped facility capable of conducting major repairs/overhauls but not able to build mechs from scratch like a factory.

Logged

Bradshaw

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,253
  • Expect it most when you expect it least
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2021, 11:05:30 AM »

Masterarminas troop transport got me thinking of another weird variant possibility something I don't know if is legal but seems to be according to year and tech level on MegaMek


While rarely spotted in the DCMS there is the rare Goliath seen within their regiments. With the heavy losses suffered over the past few years more have slowly been refurbished and taken out of mothballs due to their rather lackluster appeal amongst the DCMS MechWarriors. Seen as a testbed for incorporating new and older technologies including the use of Drones for reconnaissance and combat purposes tested by the Combine. With less firepower than most medium sized BattleMechs the Goliath 2K is more a walking Command HQ then a combatant.

For weaponry twin Diverse Optics 30X ER lasers are the centerpiece, intended to be able to neutralize any reconnaissance units that stumble upon the 'Mech. Its remaining tonnage is devoted to a plethora of sensors and electronics packages including but not limited to a Coordinator C3 Master system. Contracting through an intermediary and acquiring targeting and communications systems with integrated Drone Carrier Control System from ScolTek Associates in the Federated Commonwealth. Boosted with an ECM and Active Probe system the design sports some of the most cutting edge technology of any BattleMech in the InnerSphere. The design has proven so successful that the AFFC has requested and been approved for a limited number of their older 1H designs to be upgraded to this variant when the DCMS has finished with their own.

Goliath GOL-2K

Introduction Year: 3052
Cost: 11,600,400 C-bills
Battle Value: 1,373

Code: [Select]
Mass: 80 tons
Chassis: Nennison 40
Power Plant: Brigadier 1000F 320
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 64.8 kph

Armor: Durallex Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     2 Diverse Optics 30X ER Large Laser
     1 Tanadi Coordinator C3 Computer [Master]
Manufacturer: Independence Weaponry
     Primary Factory: Quentin (Refit)
Communication System: StealthMat-Q with Multitrack w/ C3 & ECM
Targeting & Tracking System: Tar Tec Mini-Find w/ Active Probe

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    8
Engine                        320 Fusion           22.5
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              12 [24]                 2
Gyro                                                  4
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          232                    13

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            25        33   
     Center Torso (rear)               10   
     R/L Torso               17        27   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  7     
     FR/L Leg                17        28   
     RR/L Leg                17        28   

Weapons                   Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
ER Large Laser                LT        2        12      5.0   
ER Large Laser                RT        2        12      5.0   
C3 Computer                   RT        5        0       5.0   
Drone Operating System        LT        1        -       8.5   
Active Probe                  CT        2        -       1.5   
ECM Suite                     LT        2        -       1.5   
Remote Sensors/Dispenser      RT        1        -       0.5   
Remote Sensors/Dispenser      LT        1        -       0.5   
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 12:15:50 PM by Bradshaw »
Logged
NEVER trust a man who scratches his chin

Bradshaw

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,253
  • Expect it most when you expect it least
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2021, 11:08:26 AM »

I looked this up when I was contemplating a TSM upgrade for a design recently in a challenge. Pg 188-189 of Strategic Operations

Those rules don't look like they represent what happens today in the real world. 

lol when do many of the rules of this game make sense. The range of weaponry alone gets me pissed when I think of it. A M1A2 Abrams would wreck a Battlemech just because it can hit from literally 100 hexes away.

The rules also don't make a lot of sense- apparently it is easier to replace the small laser on a Charger with an AC/20 (Class C Refit) then it is to replace the 400 rated engine with a 240 rated engines (yes I know by game rules all standard engines are the same size/take up the same space in a mech but in reality the 400 should be much larger then a 240

Both are considered maintenance though you're right Engine is more difficult change from 400 to 240 Fusion Engine, which to me makes sense more difficult than fitting a larger weapon onto the design. Its when it its a switch from 400 engine to 400 XL engine that it requires the factory. Think of car engines a lot of the more powerful engines take up similar space to smaller engines. Its just you have more room to get into the tight places on smaller engine cars than the larger ones.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 12:24:01 PM by Bradshaw »
Logged
NEVER trust a man who scratches his chin

masterarminas

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,515
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2021, 12:36:06 PM »

I messed up on the fluff for the GOL-2ADA; don't know what I was thinking but I thought that the half-ton searchlight had a range of 30 hexes (900 meters).  It doesn't.  It has a range of 170 hexes . . . or 5,100 meters.  Guess I goofed because the no-tonnage searchlight (such as that on the Warhammer (and any 'Mech can mount at no tonnage, cost, or BV adjustment)) has just a 9 hex range!

Anyway, the fluff is now fixed and the GOL-2ADA can spotlight targets waaaayyyyy the heck out there!

On a side note, I do wonder what such a powerful searchlight would do to the night vision of PBIs and sensor arrays when it suddenly comes on in the dark.  Some of our NV-devices today can get overloaded by sudden powerful illumination; maybe there should be a rule to reflect this.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 12:36:55 PM by masterarminas »
Logged

Bradshaw

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,253
  • Expect it most when you expect it least
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2021, 01:09:24 PM »

That's basically a laser at short ranges if you don't have autodim turned on in your cockpits your basically blinded.
Logged
NEVER trust a man who scratches his chin

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,181
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2021, 02:58:43 PM »

Nice target for the artillery!
Logged

masterarminas

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,515
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2021, 06:09:14 PM »

Nice target for the artillery!

Hope you are using tube artillery, Takiro.

Arrow IV (IS) have a maximum range of 8 Mapboards . . . or just around 128 hexes (3,840 meters).  Clan Arrow IV reaches out to 9 mapboards (144 hexes, 4,320 meters).

Sniper pieces have a maximum range of 18 Mapboards . . . about 288 hexes or 8,640 meters.

Thumpers and Long Toms can reach further (25 and 30 Mapboards, respectively).

So, the Searchlight on the GOL-2ADA can reach farther than either Inner Sphere or Clan Arrow IV Artillery can shoot.  And illuminate a target at just under 60% of the maximum range of a Sniper!

[EDIT:  To put it another way, the Searchlight can reach out and illuminate a target a full 10 and one-half mapboards away!]

And those Artillery rounds take a number of turns to land; the Searchlight illuminates out to max range in the same turn it is activated.  Gives the GOL-2ADA plenty of time to move away from the impact zone (well, gives it some time, at least).
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 12:58:32 PM by masterarminas »
Logged

fabulousorcboy

  • Fanjunkare
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 226
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2021, 12:44:27 AM »

Masterarminas, that Imperial Walker variant is pure genius.  I take my hat off to you, sir.  Ambles along at a gentle 4/6 speed, but has the incredible mobility of a 'Mech through all kinds of terrain.  Just think about the possibilities -- through woods, under water, even up steep slopes!

As for artillery, I'm a huge fan.  Sadly, only Clan Arrow IV launchers or Artillery Cannons (the short-barreled things) can squeeze onto a quad given the 14 crit max available (side torso plus center torso), at least in 3053.  Once you have compact gyros, that still gives only 16 crits, which isn't enough for the heavier artillery pieces.  The four legs make it seem like a far more stable firing platform than biped 'Mechs, but the rules-as-written just don't make it possible, at least not until the FedCom Civil War era, or the (re) introduction of Superheavy 'Mechs.

Now a Superheavy 'Mech with a Long Tom or two?  Delicious.  Pure cheese on rye bread.
Logged

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,181
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2021, 05:21:54 PM »

That's some mad illumination boy!

Masterarminas, that Imperial Walker variant is pure genius.  I take my hat off to you, sir.  Ambles along at a gentle 4/6 speed, but has the incredible mobility of a 'Mech through all kinds of terrain.  Just think about the possibilities -- through woods, under water, even up steep slopes!

I do have to agree. The concept as Quads as infantry carriers has me thinking of issuing another challenge now.  ;)

Now a Superheavy 'Mech with a Long Tom or two?  Delicious.  Pure cheese on rye bread.

Blessed Blake!
Logged

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,181
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: Optimizing the Goliath
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2021, 04:02:19 AM »

Final day for entries here folks!
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up