OBT Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

AU Developers - Please PM Knightmare or MechRat if you need board or permission changes

Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: Optimizing the Javelin  (Read 5853 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,175
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: Optimizing the Javelin
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2019, 10:20:08 PM »

With nearly two dozen entries by seven different designers (5 Abele, 4 drakensis, 1 Irose, 6 Bradshaw, 5 Takiro, 1 masterarminas, 1 Ice Hellion) we had some pretty nice examples to choose from. Also, in hindsight I must admit about lying about my participation level in this contest which really took off. The Javelin really captured my imagination as a Davion BattleMech still serving in the Federated Commonwealth. To me this meant we had to have one variant from all three Marches in the Federated Suns. Then there was more and I was glad to see so many variations on this Light Davion SRM Boat which I ranked in the following order.

23. JVN-12X Javelin (Bradshaw)
This experimental non-jumping model features a 240 XL Engine (8/12), MASC (16), Double Heat Sinks, and EndoSteel. I found it nearly impossible given the circumstances to use this advanced internal construction at least in mass production. Still not a bad design for a test model but it didn’t feel very much like a Javelin to me with a PPC and two Medium Lasers. Plus, an error with the variant number led to a bit of confusion which I think I sorted out but it resulted in a last place finish. Sorry bud!

22. JVN-10MP Javelin (drakensis)
This Free Worlds League manufactured Draconis import has plenty of Lostech upgrades. Ferro-Fibrous (5.5 tons), Beagle Active Probe, Guardian ECM Suite and EndoSteel. Again I find it difficult to envision the use of this advanced chassis with a Javelin upgrade at this time. Using a dozen Single Heat Sinks is questionable too as Doubles would be more available at this time and this design can suffer from overheating. Two Medium Lasers and two Small Lasers which I liked their fluff origins have poor firepower even though this more of a scout with a nice surveillance package. Too many questionable things for this Javelin my friend.

21. JVN-10L Javelin (Bradshaw)
This Liao long range variant is a light hitting mobile sniper with an ER Large Laser and a tiny LRM battery. It runs pretty cool thanks to Double Heat Sinks which allows it to move and fire constantly. Given its low firepower this Javelin is more of a harasser which is a niche. I don't know if it feels like a Javelin to me and as Liao variants go - I thought Abele's was better.

20. JVN-12D Javelin (Abele)
This Davion model built at Jalastar Aerospace on Panpour isn't but is it a Javelin? Don't get me wrong using a 180 XL Engine, Ferro-Fibrous (5.5 tons), and Double Heat Sinks isn't bad. The ER Large Laser, SRM-4 with Artemis IV FCS, and Medium Laser is an odd arsenal for this BattleMech which isn't horrible. However it did cause me to place this unorthodox layout here.

19. JVN-11S Javelin (Bradshaw)
A unique Mechwarrior creation which reminded me alot of a Light Crusader with two LRM-5s and two SRM-4s which I can appreciate in this missile boat. I am fine with Double Heat Sinks and the CASE but a couple of things bothered me. Ditching two Jump Jets reduced your mobility and the EndoSteel chassis was again a bit too difficult to come by. Still, I could see it as a custom or unique model which finishes here in this contest.

18. JVN-11J Javelin (Abele)
From Defiance Industries of Furillo this basic upgrade of the Javelin wasn’t too shabby as it featured Ferro-Fibrous (5 tons), Double Heat Sinks, and Streak SRM-2s. Two of these advanced missile batteries along with two Medium Lasers and a Flamer make up a little lighter arsenal than the original. Unfortunately, I feel like the Lyran Lightning here was swallowed up by FedCom Thunder later on. Still not bad at all but it is my second favorite Steiner design presented here.

17. JVN-11ELH Javelin (Irose)
Excellent fluff from this joint Eridani Light Horse and NAIS project which seems like more of a custom model rather than a widespread refit. Four tons of Ferro-Fibrous ain’t bad protection along with two far reaching ER Large Lasers. Theoretically the design can stay at long range and hammer away at opponents indefinitely with its big energy weapons concealed in the torsos where the SRMs usually go (a nice touch). However, this is where some design concerns start popping up for me like ten Double Heat Sinks not being enough to cool weapons fire let alone movement. Additionally, that speed and mobility have been reduced (5/8/5) in order to make way for these larger energy weapons. Intriguing, yes but unfortunately it finishes here for me.

16. JVN-11C Javelin (Ice Hellion)
Despite some excellent fluff this high tech Draconis March upgrade was a bit misplaced to me. I liked the 180 XL Engine from the Hatchetman, Guardian ECM Suite to make a sneaky Mech sneakier, improved armor protection from four tons of Ferro-Fibrous, and Double Heat Sinks to help cool the twin SRM-6s which have been joined by two Medium Lasers. I didn’t love the loss of two jump jets lowering the Javelin’s mobility by two but the biggest objection came from the AFFC anti-Clan logistics handicapping the Sandovals. Prioritizing the best stuff for the frontlines while simultaneously holding back advances from a possible trouble spot is a policy from canon I don’t see changing. Sorry Ice.

15.  JVN-10S Javelin (Abele)
The top solely Steiner variant produced by this contest was this EndoSteel Light Mech built at Coventry Metal Works. Why was this more successful than other EndoSteel efforts? Three Mechs produced here already used EndoSteel structures (Commando, Firestarter, Phoenix Hawk) meaning an orbital foundry was already present and functioning here. Plus, Coventry is home to the Lyran Light Mech industry, the Commando which is very similar, and has a reputation for superior missile systems. So it made sense in a lot of ways to me. Add to that the resources and the motivation as Coventry lies above the Truce line then things can happen. Liked the 240XL Engine from the VT-5S Vulcan getting utilize here as well which increase movement to 8/12/6. Double Heat Sinks helps cool this extra fast design with an arsenal of a Medium Pulse Laser, Streak SRM-2 and two Medium Lasers. A slight firepower fall off and near full armor factor (104) along with a CASE makes this a good one but others were better.

14. YR-2K Yari (Takiro)
Well I thought this Draconis revision of the Fire Javelin with a C3 Slave was pretty freaking solid. Granted six tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor might have been a bit much but five Medium Lasers cooled by ten Double Heat Sinks is a big winner. You can jump and fire all day along with providing your lance a little better targeting coordination thanks to that C3 Slave. Thinking about it and the total revision of the Mechs outward appearance would have taken some doing that the Dieron Military District did not have. Then there was the similarity to another design along with a better Kurita Javelin which placed the Yari here.

13. JVN-10D Javelin (Bradshaw)
This Davion upgrade of the Javelin which replaces the two SRM-6s with four Streak SRM-2s is made possible by utilizing only a single ton of ammo. This simple armament replacement results in 12.5 rounds of ammunition available and gives you enough space for a CASE plus a half ton of armor (four and half total). The design is simple and effective but I would have liked to have seen a little more fluff. A better story may have resulted in a higher ranking here.

12. JVN-11NAIS Javelin (masterarminas)
This NAIS prototype which used the 180 XL Engine from the Hatchetman was a solid FedCom upgrade of this venerable Davion machine. The base twin SRM-6s remain along with a new Medium Laser which brings added firepower. Some part of me wanted to see the SRMs improved somehow but it is a straightforward and reliable improvement which could have been inspired by the Commando which has become the FedCom standard. Double Heat Sinks cool this improved armament and any movement with room to spare. Armor protection has also been improved thanks to five and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous as well as two CASEs. Very nice but I thought there were better entries this time around.

Near Misses

11&10. JVN-10D1 Javelin & JVN-10D2 Javelin (drakensis)
These two simple upgrades for AFFC and affiliated mercenary forces were pretty spot on thanks to their varied loadouts. Both models are essentially the same with four tons of Ferro-Fibrous providing increased protection and two Artemis IV FCS improving missile accuracy. There is a short-range version with dual SRM-4s and a long-range model with twin LRM-5s. The SRM version is less powerful than the original but more efficient with regards to ammunition and missiles that hit thanks to the Artemis. The LRM version is lightly armed compared to the Valkyrie but is more mobile than that standard AFFC light Mech. A nice approach to this challenge but I thought there were nine better.

9. JVN-11X Javelin (Bradshaw)
With an ‘X’ in your designator I’d expect something a little more experimental but this upgraded Fire variant to be used against the Clans is fairly simple. The only lostech used is really Double Heat Sinks while the SRM-6s have been removed for a half dozen Medium Lasers. While a Jumping Alpha Strike can result in a four overheat it isn’t unmanageable and the firepower is pretty darn impressive. Six tons of standard armor provide pretty good protection but it really could have been better. Would have liked more fluff as well.

8. JVN-10NU Javelin (Abele)
The best AFFC mercenary upgrade in my opinion was this entry by Abele whose mixed bag arsenal is actually pretty efficient. An LRM-5, SRM-4, and two Medium Lasers provide better reach and only one less max damaged off the pace established by the base model. Four tons of Ferro-Fibrous is an improvement over the 3025 version which remains otherwise unchanged. Not bad at all but you just missed out on the winner’s circle with this one bud!

7. JVN-10C Javelin (drakensis)
Even closer was this ComGuard Clanbuster used on Tukayyid which I really liked despite its lack of any true offensive firepower. Simply replacing the SRM-6s with two Narc Missile Launchers and their beacons really makes this a highly specialized target augmenter. An interesting model with certain possibilities undoubtedly but my major hang up was what’s next? You talked about the Clans adapting to the sneaky NARC Javelin during the Tukayyid battle which seems to beg for another upgrade. I would have liked to have seen the next model in this innovative series as opposed to this one-time tactical edge as very few survived the conflict.

     Winners

6. JVN-11M Javelin (Takiro)
I have a certain vision for the near future of the FWLM which has them rely more on NARC assets working in tandem with massed LRM-5 racks. This could extend to other militaries as well like the ComGuards which could adopt this advanced NARC model as well. Using a 240 XL Engine which has proliferated very quickly thanks to the 3050 Rifleman this Javelin now goes 8/12 but also gives up on jumping removing the six jets in favor of greater ground speed. One SRM-6 remains while the other has been replaced by a NARC Missile Beacon while a Medium Laser has been added to supplement the Javelin’s reduced firepower. Six tons of Ferro-Fibrous is a bit overkill wasting some armor plating but I think this NARC Javelin is the best one presented narrowly making it into the winner’s circle.

5. JVN-10D Javelin (Takiro)
Using minimal lostech like six tons of Ferro-Fibrous and Double Heat Sinks should be a hallmark of the hamstrung Draconis March. Simple and effective this Davion ‘Fire’ Javelin uses a half dozen Medium Lasers much like Bradshaw’s JVN-11X. The only difference in these actual designs is the type of armor used which is a bit of overkill here which I generally don’t like. However, the desperation of the Sandovals to maximize the efficiency of their forces would override these concerns. Heat management would have the same concerns as the 11X presented here. I am hoping that this is the first of many Robinson designs which is low tech but advanced featuring armament like regular PPCs and Large Lasers which are more heat efficient than their Extended Range successors.

4&3. JVN-11S Javelin & JVN-11D Javelin (Takiro)
This advanced testbed using the Hatchetman’s 180 XL Engine to incorporate larger Streak SRM racks which themselves are undergoing testing is exactly what I wanted. Double Heat Sinks help cool this Streaky Javelin which also has optimized ammo which is protected by a CASE. It has near full armor factor (104) thanks to six and a half tons of standard plating and a slightly lower max firepower than its JVN-10N (20 rather than 24). The JVN-11D does better thanks to five Medium Lasers which is augmented by its impressive electronics which includes a Guardian ECM, Beagle Active Probe, and TAG.

2. JVN-11L Javelin (Abele)
This Liao variant which uses parts from the 3050 Raven was an unanticipated revelation from Abele. A 210 XL Engine plus another Jump Jet grants the Capellan Javelin or Biāoqiāng a superior movement rate of 7/11/7 which can be amplified by the heat activation of the onboard Triple Strength Myomer. Mounting a Guardian ECM Suite adds to the sneaky reputation of this BattleMech now in the devious hands of the Confederation. Four and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous provide better protection in addition to the stealth system and the increased maneuverability. While the firepower of two Streak SRM-2s, two Medium Lasers, and a Small Pulse Laser is slightly reduced from the base JVN-10N model this exceptional design has earned a silver medal.

1. JVN-10K Javelin (Bradshaw)
A Kurita C3 variant which melds the base JVN-10N model with the fire JVN-10F variant is my choice for the best design in this contest. Five tons of Ferro-Fibrous, Double Heat Sinks, and a C3 Slave represent the lostech upgrades featured on this champion which defeated my Yari whose fluff may supplement Bradshaw’s very solid Draconis variant. Its arsenal only has a slight two point fall off from the base model max which doesn’t have the accuracy increase for its lance mates. Congratulations Bradshaw, gold medal!

Believe it or not I did have another variant based on the Fire Javelin which was armed entirely with up to five Medium Pulses but that never came to pass. Working hard on the next challenge which should be up late tomorrow or early Saturday depending on circumstances. Thanks again for your excellent participation gang and I hope to see everyone for our next challenge soon!
Logged

Abele

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,093
  • A Man in a Tin Suit
Re: Optimizing the Javelin
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2019, 04:07:27 AM »

I was hoping my Liao Javelin would make the cut. It was my favorite.

Spiders or Valkyries, which ever is next, I've got both guns loaded. Just need fluff to flesh'em out
Logged
The Honor of Men cannot be bound by the words of Fools- Marco Hietala
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. - Confucius
May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies. - Voltaire
Chaos doesn't need a recipe, just a list of ingredients. - Drakensis
Kachi ni Fushigi no Kachi Ari. Make ni Fushigi no Make Nashi
Wielder of the Ferro-Carbide Bat of Doom™®©

Bradshaw

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,253
  • Expect it most when you expect it least
Re: Optimizing the Javelin
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2019, 09:51:47 AM »

I use X in variant for unknown not for experimental as in Mystic X  :-X

« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 10:03:50 AM by Bradshaw »
Logged
NEVER trust a man who scratches his chin

drakensis

  • Duke of Avalon
  • KU Player
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,299
Re: Optimizing the Javelin
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2019, 04:44:02 PM »

I had high hopes reading the first half of that.

Oh well, shouldn't give my competitive side too much leeway.
Logged

Ice Hellion

  • Protector of the Taurian Concordat
  • KU Player
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,482
  • Beware of the all-seeing eye: Ice Hellion
Re: Optimizing the Javelin
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2019, 03:49:59 PM »

I had high hopes reading the first half of that.

Oh well, shouldn't give my competitive side too much leeway.

+1

but the biggest objection came from the AFFC anti-Clan logistics handicapping the Sandovals. Prioritizing the best stuff for the frontlines while simultaneously holding back advances from a possible trouble spot is a policy from canon I don’t see changing. Sorry Ice.

But this was a private move by the Sandovals to fortify their holds. I just made the canon get a little bit faster as he just did what I wrote but only a couple of months/years later.
Logged


"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,175
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: Optimizing the Javelin
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2019, 02:39:30 PM »

I use X in variant for unknown not for experimental as in Mystic X  :-X

Haha!

Dashing your hopes is my calling.

I hear ya Ice, trying to get a summary of events down this weekend for everyone.
Logged

Ice Hellion

  • Protector of the Taurian Concordat
  • KU Player
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,482
  • Beware of the all-seeing eye: Ice Hellion
Re: Optimizing the Javelin
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2019, 03:25:18 PM »

I hear ya Ice, trying to get a summary of events down this weekend for everyone.

This time, I didn't mean that. Jalastar Aerospace invested in the Javelin but later.
Logged


"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,175
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: Optimizing the Javelin
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2019, 11:47:32 AM »

Well I am still working on an End of 3052 summary for both the Clans and the InnerSphere this week. Hope to have something for you soon.

Jalastar's expansion on Panpour for Javelin may still happen but as you said in the future.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up