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Author Topic: Optimizing the Venom  (Read 5578 times)

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Ice Hellion

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Re: Optimizing the Venom
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2019, 01:00:58 PM »

Ok folks, pencils down. No more entries.

I couldn't get myself past the problem of it being a heavier Spider, which we just had optimised...
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

masterarminas

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Re: Optimizing the Venom
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2019, 01:19:56 PM »

Same here, Ice.  Never really cared for the Venom at all.

MA
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Venom
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2019, 04:11:36 PM »

I will make a note as such in my review. Also I thought I remembered an Abele entry which I can't find??
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Abele

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Re: Optimizing the Venom
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2019, 07:44:59 AM »

It's because I removed it. There was no fluff and one of the designs was illegal so I nixed them both.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Venom
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2019, 06:57:16 PM »

This special design contest that tacked on to the Spider that ran only for a week drew sixteen entries from three different designers. Special thanks to Bradshaw and drakensis for participating in this one as I understand Ice Hellion and masterarminas being Spidered out. Abele also had two entries but withdrew so let's see where everyone ends up here.

16. SDR-6K Venom (Bradshaw)
Not any easy swap with a MASC as even OmniMechs have to use them as fixed equipment. Meaning factory installed or major overhaul is required in order for this to work. As important as Ryuken-roku is to the Combine I just think this is highly impractical. Other than that I liked the four Medium Lasers, Small Laser, Beagle Active Probe, 5.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous, and 10 Double Heat Sink approach.

15. SDR-1K Venom (Bradshaw)
An even faster version featuring a 350 XL Engine  (10/15/10) and 3.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous (63) armor. What I can't get bye is the fact that this Mech has no weaponry only C3 Slave. An interesting Draconis concept which any samurai wouldn't want to pilot which is the main reason it doesn't get far here, sorry.

14. SDR-2K Venom (Bradshaw)
This low tech variant featuring a 280 Fusion Engine and ten Single Heat Sinks is straight forward in the wrong direction. I get your survival reasoning and two Medium Lasers aren't bad weaponry wise especially considering the amount of tonnage taken up by the engine. Why not go with EndoSteel then to free up more tonnage especially when you have 3.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous? That may have given your proof of concept fast mobile zombie more legs.

13. SDR-3K Venom (Bradshaw)
This limited Solaris gimmick rather than a true Kurita variant is a larger version of your Spider which I think worked better than this. Four tons of Ferro-Fibrous (71), 10 Double Heat Sinks, three Medium Lasers, Medium Pulse, Gaurdian ECM Suite, and a Hatchet. With the DCMS seemingly to rejecting the axe at this time and the Venom so badly needed to replace battle field losses i really doubt the factory would take this beyond the drawing board.

12. SDR-4K Venom (Bradshaw)
While two SRM-4s (25 likely inferno rounds), a Medium Laser, and two Flamers sound like a nice heater it seems a bit out of character for this Mech. Aside from my missile objections it isn't a bad idea and is well protected with five tons of Ferro-Fibrous (89). It is fast and ten Double Heat Sinks do a good job if you alternate movement. Not bad I just don't see it for the Venom.

11. SDR-9S Venom (drakensis)
Love your twin Large Lasers concept but like your Spider think the armor is too light. Three and half tons of Ferro-Fibrous (62) is too thin for me even with the longer range armament. I was hoping you would redo this one here and did a version of it myself. I was aiming a little higher for armor plating bud, sorry.

10. SDR-9F Venom (drakensis)
I considered this Free Rasalhague variant with heavier protection of seven and half tons of standard armor (119). Ultimately, I thought that the four Small Pulse Lasers were too light in terms of hitting power and range. Even though cost is further reduced by the dozen Single Heat Sinks featured on this budget design this one didn't pay off for me.

Runners Up

9. SDR-5K Venom (Bradshaw)
This Proserpina Hussar variant is pretty solid with four Medium Lasers and two Medium Pulses but could run a bit hot. Adding another Double Heat Sink for a total of eleven does a pretty good job when running but jumping could cause heat spikes during close range Alpha Strikes. However, this lowers your protection to just 4.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous (81) which isn't bad but not good enough to make the cut for me.

8. SDR-7K Venom (Bradshaw)
An electronic specialist with C3 Slave, Guardian ECM Suite, 2 Remote Dispensers from Ryuken-yon which isn't bad in itself. Three Medium Lasers, a Small Laser, and a Flamer don't make for a bad arsenal while 5.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous provides solid protection. Fact is you just got beat by another electronic warfare specialist here.

7. SDR-9D Venom (drakensis)
The single ER Large Laser together with a couple of smaller lasers (in this case 2 Medium Lasers and a Small here) wasn't a bad approach. Utilizing EndoSteel allowed for greater armor protection (6.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous - 116) and even another Double Heat Sink for extra cooling effect during combat. However, your fluff took it to the Draconis March which it is far too advanced for and I doubt the Sandovals could get their hands on it at this time. With this in mind I thought there was one similar concept which was better.

6. SDR-8K Venom (Bradshaw)
This longer ranged variant deployed by Genyosha is pretty solid with an ER Large and two Medium Lasers. Doesn't lose too much firepower and it gains some reach plus heat management is enhanced with another Double Heat Sink. Running Alpha Strikes must be alternated between Jumping Alpha Strikes. Unlike drakensis variant before this model doesn't use EndoSteel which may have put it over the top and in the winner’s circle. Unfortunately, it is just shy of that.

5. SDR-9M Venom (drakensis)
The same simple approach utilized by Bradshaw for his SDR-9K but this time carried out by House Marik which retained some for special operations. With 10 Double Heat Sinks boosting the armor to 5.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous (98) only the distribution was slightly different (8 H, 14/4 CT, 13/3 ST, 10 Arms, 10 Legs). Of course, four Medium Pulse Lasers still make up the armament of this undoubtedly improved Venom. Very close but Bradshaw did post first and I liked his story behind the Mech better.

Winners

4. VNM-2M Venom (Takiro)
Credit where credit is due as drakensis came up with the twin Large Laser variant for his Spider last contest. I was sure it could work here with five more tons but I thought switching the Ferro-Fibrous for EndoSteel would be necessary due to a lack of critical space. Further research showed that this initial assumption was incorrect and both bulky components would work. The Tematagi plant already produced EndoSteel chassis for the Spider and I was sure they could do so for the Venom. Five tons of Ferro-Fibrous (90) provides the better protection I was looking for and 10 Double Heat Sinks sufficiently cool the design especially if movement is alternated.

3. VNM-2K Venom (Takiro)
Narrowly packing on every bit of Lostech that I could produce this highly optimized design of which I am satisfied can do its utmost with current systems. Four Medium Pulses stay and are joined by a C3 Slave improving this machine's accuracy with the aid of lance mates. EndoSteel allows for six tons of Ferro-Fibrous (108) which is solid protection just below max. Ten Double Heat Sinks cool everything well if movement is alternated during Alpha Strikes. Only stretch here is the restoration of the Lapida plant in rapid order but I think the Coordinators involvement could make it happen.
 
2. SDR-9K Venom (Bradshaw)
This is a great transitional model from the SDR-9K to the VNM models I presented here. A simple upgrade of the base design from TRO 3055 which exchanges the 12 Single Heat Sinks for 10 Double Heat Sinks. This super easy swap gives you two extra tons to play with which Bradshaw allocates to Ferro-Aluminum armor plating for much better protection. Simple and effective this may be an excellent transition model between SDR Venom and the new VNM models. Existing models can be retrofitted with this upgrade which I am gonna dub the SDR-9U. Nice job Bradshaw, silver medal!

1. SDR-9L Venom (drakensis)
This one is a little bit of surprise but I think it works well with the Marik Civil War. This House Liao variant with 6.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous (116) and ten Double Heat Sinks downgrades the armament to four standard Medium Lasers. This decreases damage and accuracy but increases range as well as making room for some advanced electronics. The Guardian ECM Suite and Beagle Active Probe make for an excellent surveillance asset. The fluff is solid and like I said it fits. Very well done, gold medal drak!!
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Bradshaw

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Re: Optimizing the Venom
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2019, 09:40:39 AM »

Got to say i'm disappointed, while I knew 1-3k would not be in the running they were there just for added fluff really. But you mention that the MASC is fixed equipment and not easily altered yet, you have Endo Steel when they don't even have the capability to make it at this point in time. Fluff says the company uses it for the Bishamon which comes out in 3060 and Spider in 3067.

I really thought the 7K & 8K would have finished better, especially the 7K as I found that C3 can work through the Remote Sensors to add a whole new dimension to the battlefield. I have to say I dislike IS Pulse Lasers a lot. Range sucks more tonnage and heat all for a very small dam increase and accuracy boost that really doesn't matter because your right in the face of opponents that can smash you with 80% (rough guess) of weapons available at the time. Considering DC is fighting specifically just the clans at this point in time they make no point in being used.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Venom
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2019, 06:19:13 PM »

Got to say i'm disappointed, while I knew 1-3k would not be in the running they were there just for added fluff really. But you mention that the MASC is fixed equipment and not easily altered yet, you have Endo Steel when they don't even have the capability to make it at this point in time. Fluff says the company uses it for the Bishamon which comes out in 3060 and Spider in 3067.

I hear ya bud. In regards to a MASC as I explained it isn't just something dropped easily into a variant. It might be tougher or on par with an EndoSteel swap which I view as a complete tear down as your essentially replacing Mech skeletons. A MASC would require complete muscular revamp meaning the myomers themselves have to be replaced.

As for EndoSteel this a quote from the last challenge "In 3051 the Crucis - II Delux was introduced by the SDR-7M built by both Nimakachi facilities." So the orbital foundries needed to produce this highly specialized chassis are indeed available to Nimakachi my concern was the status of Lapida. I don't think it is unreasonable to speed along their restoration here but I am willing to listen to counter arguments certainly.

I really thought the 7K & 8K would have finished better, especially the 7K as I found that C3 can work through the Remote Sensors to add a whole new dimension to the battlefield. I have to say I dislike IS Pulse Lasers a lot. Range sucks more tonnage and heat all for a very small dam increase and accuracy boost that really doesn't matter because your right in the face of opponents that can smash you with 80% (rough guess) of weapons available at the time. Considering DC is fighting specifically just the clans at this point in time they make no point in being used.

My revised version of the Venom sucked the life out of those two variants which were close. I am still thinking of a 8K successor based on the VNM-2K (probably be the 3K) which would replace two Medium Pulses with an ER Large Laser and another Medium Pulse with a Medium Laser. This might be more like drakensis 9D which featured EndoSteel as well but lacked a C3 Slave which I view as important here too. NOTE: The importance of the C3 here has grown in the Combine more rapidly due to alternate events and my agenda.

The 7K was beat out by the 9L as the Venom electronic warfare specialist which was the overall winner of the contest and a recon master superb. I could see the DCMS using it as well.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Optimizing the Venom
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2019, 10:04:43 PM »

K I missed the 7M and the fact the Venom was made on Tematagi I thought it wasn't until the later variants KA and KB that it was produced there. Still don't think cost effective to ship frames from FWL to DC to be built with Endo Steel but thats just fluff anyhow. I don't mind the Liao version I guess beating me out, but I will be using that combo again as I find it way to versatile to not be around.

I still don't understand having both my 9K and your 2K being winners and being produced if anything your 2K and my 8K should replace my 9k finisher.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Venom
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2019, 05:33:05 AM »

I still don't understand having both my 9K and your 2K being winners and being produced if anything your 2K and my 8K should replace my 9k finisher.

I see what you are saying after your mention yesterday. Your 9K, and even the 9L, are what becomes of those first generation Venoms without EndoSteel for their top of the line refit. The VNM models (2K and 2M) with EndoSteel mark a true second generation as I remarked in my (2K) fluff true Venoms which symbolically break away from the SDR coding as part of that. As the VNM soon become the only Mechs of the class in production (unless Liao really falls in love with it and creates another non EndoSteel line somewhere) hence the 8K possibility is the one that gets squeezed.

However, it is possible that a future VNM successor will follow the 8K example with an ER Large Laser replacing two of the Medium Pulses and a Medium Laser replacing a third Medium Pulse. This 3K, born of my 2K, would then have an ER Large - a Medium Laser - a Medium Pulse - and most importantly a C3 Slave (yours lacked this critically) which could then integrate it into such lances going forth. Thinking about it further suppose I could drop the final Medium Pulse for a Medium Laser increasing the range and add another Double Heat Sink which could fit in the engine thus enhance your cooling for higher heat generated in this future model.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Optimizing the Venom
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2019, 10:21:51 AM »

So something like this perhaps

Venom VNM-3K

Code: [Select]
Cost: 7,145,460 C-bills
Battle Value: 1,186

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              2
Engine                        280 XL                  8
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 8
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  88                    5.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            11        12   
     Center Torso (rear)               3     
     R/L Torso               8         12   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 6         8     
     R/L Leg                 8         10   

Weapons              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
ER Large Laser           CT        2        12      5.0   
Medium Laser             RT        1        3       1.0   
Medium Laser             LT        1        3       1.0   
ECM Suite                RT        2        -       1.5   
C3 Computer              HD        1        -       1.0   
4 Jump Jets              RT        4        -       2.0   
4 Jump Jets              LT        4        -       2.0   
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Venom
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2019, 06:21:13 PM »

Something like that. Did you remove the Ferro-Fibrous armor?
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Bradshaw

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Re: Optimizing the Venom
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2019, 09:46:09 PM »

yea didn't have the space
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