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Takiro

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Optimizing the Vindicator
« on: July 05, 2020, 10:09:06 PM »

We take on a distinctly Liao flavor this time around for contest number twenty-two which will feature the Vindicator. While this BattleMech isn’t one of my favorites and isn’t frequently used in my home games I have come to respect it. Maybe this is because as good a Level 1 Vindicator is professed to be that Level 2 Star League lostech ruined it. Perhaps there is some truth to this as the BattleMech was developed during the technological degradation that was the Succession Wars. Still a slow medium weight fire support design can be pulled off for InnerSphere forces at this time I believe. Looking forward to seeing what you guys can do with this Capellan classic for the Salient Horizon universe.

’Mech of the Week: VND-** Vindicator
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,57323.0.html

BattleTechwiki Page for the Vindicator
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Vindicator

Design Criteria
Design: Vindicator Medium BattleMech
Era: 3052, just following the Truce of Tukayyid
Tech: InnerSphere Level 2
Mass: 45 tons

Tech Base
The tech base for this enterprise will be InnerSphere Level 2, also known as Star League lostech, circa 3053. Remember some Level 1 standards which Bradshaw and myself think still have value like Large Lasers and PPCs which feature the same damage factor as their higher tech brethren with less range and perhaps most significantly less heat. Here is a list for your design reference. Let me know if there is anything I missed!

Star League LosTech
Anti-Missile System
Arrow IV Artillery Missile System
Extended Range Large Laser (ER Large Laser)
Extended Range Particle Projection Cannon (ER PPC)
Gauss Rifle
Ultra Autocannon/5
LB 10-X Autocannon
One-Shot Missile Packs
Pulse Lasers (Small, Medium, & Large)
Streak SRM-2
Swarm LRMs
Thunder LRMs
Artemis IV FCS
Beagle Active Probe
Guardian ECM Suite
Myomer Accelerator Signal Circuitry (MASC)
Narc Missile Beacon
TAG
Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment (CASE)
Double Heat Sinks
Endo Steel Internal Structure
Ferro-Fibrous Armor
Extra Light (XL) Engine

InnerSphere Low Tech
Blazer Cannon (or Binary Laser)
Recon Camera
Remote Sensor Dispenser

New Innovations
Triple Strength Myomer
Hatchet
C3 Computer

Design Traits of this Setting
The Free Worlds League in particular have embraced massed LRM-5s over the larger batteries to provide closer mass equivalents to Clan LRMs. Thanks to a corresponding increase in NARC units these ‘fire teams’ have become quite effective in the Marik Civil War. Also, the Blazer has made an appearance in the shattered FWLM searching for an advantage over their former brethren.
Both the Federated Commonwealth and ComStar seem to have gone in the other direction with LRM batteries preferring larger LRM-15s and 20s linked to Artemis IV FCS to enhance accuracy. Facing the technologically superior Clan invaders have caused them to spend vast sums of resources on the finest technology available usually translating into high priced BattleMechs that few other factions can afford.
This is somewhat true for the Draconis Combine which has lost a significant portion of their industrial capacity to the Clans. This has been forced Kurita designers to innovate in new and different ways regardless of traditional warrior ethos which pervades the realm. Many Draconis optimizations have included the C3 System which is accelerated from the canon setting which saw their deployment lag.
Regional factions like the Draconis March and the Periphery have seen the introduction of some ‘simple’ lostech items like Double Heat Sinks, Ferro-Fibrous, Streak SRM-2s, and Pulse Lasers. Extra-Light (XL) Engines remain too expensive and have drawbacks which make their deployment unlikely here. Advanced orbital facilities needed for EndoSteel manufacturing also remain out of reach at this point. They are not beyond using PPCs and Large Lasers either which they view as more efficient than their ER successors.

Please do your research (think Objective Raids) for available components as this will be another factor in rapid production. I love fluff and your winning designs will be featured in my BattleTech Salient Horizon alternate setting. I'd like to go beyond the refits bought to you by Technical Readout 3050 and delve into extensive redesigns of your BattleTech favorites. Sharpen up your favorite war machines perhaps drawing on past or current variants while remembering the spirit or role of these Mechs. Don't forget to justify the expense of your project and multiple winners are possible. Figure that all entries have to be completed and posted on these forums by Friday July 17th, 2020 by 11:59 PM which should give you all a full two weeks for this contest, good luck!!
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 10:10:01 PM by Takiro »
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2020, 10:09:41 PM »

The Vindicator in Action: Today
I doubt the Vindicator would appear on the offensive during the 3rd Marik Civil War as the Capellan Confederation remains officially and quite staunchly neutral in this purely internal conflict. However, Chancellor Sun Tzu Liao has made no secret of his support for his fiancée, Isis Marik, as the true Captain-General of the Free Worlds League. He has generously donated mercenaries, equipment, supplies, and even assented to Capellan volunteers joining Isis forces.

Traditional Liao BattleMechs like the Vindicator which could be viewed as foreign or inflamatory to pro-Marik sentiments are restricted to the CCAF at this time. That being said, the Oriente bloc (which includes Orloff and other historically Oriente worlds) in particular may seek to disrupt the flow of supplies to what they see as a foreign invasion. While Minister-General Paul Marik may have his hands tied they (Oriente) do not and targeted raids on Capellan targets may start up again.

This would provoke a tit for tat reprisal cycle between Oriente and the Capellans as each side attempts to unbalance the other with destructive campaigns deep into enemy territory. Actions like this would probably be key exploits for the Vindicator not to mention raids against St. Ives Compact and Federated Commonwealth territories which may be aimed at supplying resistance groups or evacuating friendly agents. Of course, bandit raids on Liao held near Periphery worlds are par for the course at any time. 

Liao Design Traits
Many Capellan tendencies remain almost wholly unaltered from canon but I will try to expand on them here. Liao designs will typically be cost effective at this time thanks to their resource strapped situation. While justifications for high end increases can be made like the Outreach Conference, Wrath of Blake technical aid, spoils of war from Isis forces, and good old Capellan espionage these should be minimized. My advice would be Periphery plus for these designs as the Confederation is under strain supporting Isis right now as it is.

Growing stealth tech reflected in the Raven would be appropriate in many cases as sophisticated electronic lostech devices like the Guardian ECM Suite would be a priority for their recon designs. For the Vindicator I see more of a fire support role which has earmarks of Liao tactical doctrines. The discovery of Thunder LRMs to deploy minefields and use of Arrow IV Artillery on the Catapult are themes which could be amplified here. Perhaps as a body guard unit for such forces much like the Blackjack for the Davion or St. Ives troopers.

Non-Capellan Versions
Vindicators probably belong to the St. Ives Compact in the next most numbers at least at a per Mech rate. With Candace Liao herself being a former pilot of this BattleMech a certain amount of pride may still be attributed to it. I could also see a correspondingly negative association with the old regime by some Compact extremists but that is likely rare.
Salvaged Vindicators are likely in the possession of the FWLM and AFFS who could still use them or alternatively fix them up for sale to friendly mercenary commands. It is likely this is the only way a few Vindicators will tangle with the Clans up to this point and time.
Interestingly enough the Vindicator has been Germanified, like the Blackjack, in BattleTech products which we could run with here. Especially since the Sarna March became a possession of House Steiner after the 4th Succession War. So perhaps there is a way to transform this Liao Mech into an AFFC one??
Finally, it appears as if some Vindicators of the Avenging Angel were handed over to the Free Rasalhague Republic as 'gifts.' So perhaps a Norse version of that incarnation was planned or is in service out there somewhere??
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lrose

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2020, 10:26:58 PM »

Vindicator
Model VND-2T
Mass: 45 tons
Chassis: Ceresplex IV
Power Plant: Warner 225B
Cruising Speed: 53.6 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.7 kph
Jump Jets:  Rawlings 55
Jump Capacity: 150 m
Armor: Durallex Light Ferro Fibrous Armor
Armament:
   1 CeresArms Smasher PPC
   2 Delta Dart LRM 5
   1 CeresArms Medium Laser
Primary Factories: Vandenberg Mechanized Industries (Illiushin) - Refit
Communications System: CeresCom Model 21-Rs
Targeting and Tracking System: C-Apple Churchill

Type: VND-2T
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Tonnage:    45 tons

Equipment:                 Mass
Internal Structure            4.5
Engine      225         10            
   Walking MP:   5
   Running MP:  8
   Jumping MP:  5
Heatsinks       10 (20)         
Gyro                  3
Cockpit               3
Armor Factor   143         8   
         IS      Armor
Head         3      9   
CT         14      21/5
R/L Torso      11      18/4
R/L Arm      7      14
R/L Leg      11      18

Weapons & Ammo   Location   Critical   Tonnage
PPC             RA      3      7
LRM 5         LT      1      2
Ammo (24)      LT      1      1
LRM 5         RT      1      2
Ammo  (24)      RT      1      1
Medium Laser       H      1      1
Jump Jets         CT      1      0.5
Jump Jet          RL       2      1
Jump Jet         LL      2      1

Over the centuries of the Succession Wars the Taurian Concordat captured a number of Vindicators from the Capellan Confederation.  Designed to fill a variety of roles, the mech was considered mediocre by the TDF and many of the damaged units were stored, rather then returned to service.  During the mid 2900s in an effort to turn the Vindicator into a more useful design, the TDF developed a new version of the Vindicator.  Starting with the Warner 225B engine used on the Sabre, they increased the speed of the Vindicator turning it into a fast cavalry mech.  This required the removal of 4 heatsinks.  The result was mech that ran too hot and as a result it was rejected for service.  Instead it was assigned to the Taurian Ecole Militarie where it was used as training mech for the next century. 

In the late 3040s with the reintroduction of lost Star League technologies, Concordat engineers finally felt they could make the design work properly.  The prototype was rebuilt with a new cooling system that used double strength heatsinks.  This allowed the removal of 2 more heatsinks while at the same time providing superior cooling to the original VND-1R.  The designers also removed the worthless small laser, freeing up space and mass for a Delta Dart LRM 5 launcher.  To simply maintenance in the field the original Sian/Ceres Jaguar LRM launcher has also been replaced with a Delta Dart LRM 5.  Each launcher is supplied with a full ton of ammo, allowing the mech to mix and match a variety of special munitions and standard LRMs.   The jump jets were replaced with the Rawlings 55 model from the Griffin, extending the jump range to 150 meters.

The final change to the Vindicator was to replace the armor with a more advanced Ferro-Fibrous armor.  While the new Vindicator carries a ton less armor then the original the effective protection is nearly identical.  In an effort to improve survivability on the battlefield, the torso armor was redistributed so that more armor was mounted on the front side of the mech. 

The new Vindicator performed superbly in field trials and the TDF contracted with Vandenberg Mechanized Industries to open a line at their plant on Illiushin to modify all of the TDF's Vindicators to this configuration. The new mechs have been rushed to Hyades Light Infantry and Red Chaussers where they are deployed in the cavalry role.  The mech has gained the nickname of the Super Toro because of it's similarity to the Concordat's Reunification War era battlemech.  Given the success of the VND-2T, the Concordat has considered licensing the design from the Capellan Confederation so that they can put it into production.  Should the mech enter production it has been suggested that the design would use an Endo Steel chassis.  This would free up mass for a CASE system, more armor and a second medium laser.

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lrose

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2020, 10:27:16 PM »


Vindicator
Model VND-2D
Mass: 45 tons
Chassis: Ceresplex IV
Power Plant: GM 180
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 64.8 kph
Jump Jets:  Anderson Propulsion 30
Jump Capacity: 120 m
Armor: Starshield A
Armament:
   1 CeresArms Smasher PPC
   3 ChisComp 39 Medium Lasers
   2 Sutel Precision Line Small Pulse Lasers
   1 Zippo Flamer
Primary Factories: Robinson Standard BattleWorks (Robinson)- Refit
Communications System: Archernar Electronics HICS-11
Targeting and Tracking System: Federated Hunter

Type: VND-2D
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Tonnage:    45 tons

Equipment:                 Mass
Internal Structure            4.5
Engine      180         7            
   Walking MP:   4
   Running MP:  6
   Jumping MP:  4
Heatsinks       14          4      
Gyro                  2
Cockpit               3
Armor Factor   152         9.5   
         IS      Armor
Head         3      9   
CT         14      18/9
R/L Torso      11      16/6
R/L Arm      7      14
R/L Leg      11      22

Weapons & Ammo   Location   Critical   Tonnage
PPC             RA      3      7
Small Pulse Laser   LA      1      1
Small Pulse Laser   LA      1      1
Flamer         LA      1      1
Medium Laser       H      1      1
Medium Laser      LT      1      1
Medium Laser      LT      1      1
Jump Jets         CT      2      1
Jump Jet          RL       1      0.5
Jump Jet         LL      1      0.5

The VND-2D was developed in response to Duke Sandoval's complaints that the First Prince was stripping the defenses of the Draconis March to fight the Clans.  In addition to supplying the Duke with a number of mechs, including the Urbanmech and Whitworth, from the AFFC strategic reserves, Hanse Davion helped fund a new factory to build mechs for the March Militias.  Plans were underway for a new mech, the Watchman but the factory was ready before the plans for the new mech were completed.  Having already modified the Urbanmechs and Whitworths for the Draconis March Militias, it was suggested that the factory could upgrade other mechs for the DMM until the Watchman entered production..  In the AFFC storehouses were a large number of damaged Vindicators that had been captured from the Capellan Confederation during the Succession Wars. Seen as a piece of Capellan junk by the warriors in the Capellan March they generally refused to pilot the mech, as a result most of the captured mechs had been put in storage.  These mechs were made available Robinson Standard Battleworks, it was thought that warriors from the Draconis March would be less resistant to using a Capellan mech.

Using the same design philosophy as the Watchman, it was decided that the new mech would largely stick to older, readily available equipment.  The LRM system was removed, as it was decided the design should avoid the use of expensive ammunition.  Also removed were 2 heatsinks and the small laser.  The mass saved was used to upgrade the weapons and armor the Vindicator.  The main gun remains the arm mounted CeresArms Smasher PPC.  Supporting it are 3 ChisComp 39 Medium Lasers, which are also going to be used on the Watchman.  One laser is mounted in the head replacing the original CeresArms Medium Laser, while the other 2 are in the left torso, filling the space that had previously held the LRM launcher.

For anti-infantry capability it was originally decided to mount a pair of machine guns, however the introduction of the WSP-4D at Achernar Battlemechs resulted in a change of plans.  The WSP-4D replaced the WSP-3W, which was produced specifically for Wolfs Dragoons, on the production line at Achernar.  As a result there was a leftover batch of Sutel Precision Line Small Pulse Lasers.  These could be acquired cheaply and used in place of the machine guns, removing the need for ammunition from the Vindicator and making it both safer and cheaper to operate.  Unfortunately with the WSP-3W ending production, Precision Weaponry has ceased production of the small pulse laser, therefore the Watchman will mount Machine Guns for the anti-infantry role.  In addition to the small pulse lasers, the Vindicator also carries a Flamer.  This can be used in the anti-infantry or incendiary role.  Both the Small Pulse Lasers and the flamer are mounted on the right arm with the paired laser above the hand actuator and the flamer mounted below it.

Other changes include a slight improvement to the armor protection, mainly around the legs, and replacement of the older Capellan electronics with the same com and targeting systems that will be used on the Watchman.  The major reason for changing the electronics was to simplify logistics and ease maintenance.

The new Vindicator, unofficially referred to as the Guardian, has proven very popular with the mechwarriors assigned to it.  While the mech tends to to run a hot, it has proven a significant upgrade compared to the Wasps and Stingers commonly found in the March Militias.  The only complaints that have come up so far are about the the slow speed of the mech and that it tends to run hot. 

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lrose

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2020, 10:27:29 PM »


Vindicator
Model VND-3D
Mass: 45 tons
Chassis: Ceresplex IV
Power Plant: GM 225
Cruising Speed: 54.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 83.4 kph
Jump Jets:  Hildco Model 12
Jump Capacity: 150 m
Armor: StarGuard Ferro-Fibrous Armor
Armament:
   1 CeresArms Smasher PPC
   3 ChisComp 39 Medium Lasers
   2 Sutel Precision Line Small Pulse Lasers
   1 Zippo Flamer
Primary Factories: Robinson Standard BattleWorks (Robinson)- Refit
Communications System: Archernar Electronics HICS-11
Targeting and Tracking System: Federated Hunter

Type: VND-3D
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Tonnage:    45 tons

Equipment:                 Mass
Internal Structure            4.5
Engine      225         10            
   Walking MP:   5
   Running MP:  8
   Jumping MP:  5
Heatsinks       11(22)       1      
Gyro                  3
Cockpit               3
Armor Factor   143         8   
         IS      Armor
Head         3      9   
CT         14      18/8
R/L Torso      11      16/6
R/L Arm      7      14
R/L Leg      11      18

Weapons & Ammo   Location   Critical   Tonnage
PPC             RA      3      7
Small Pulse Laser   LA      1      1
Small Pulse Laser   LA      1      1
Flamer         LA      1      1
Medium Laser       H      1      1
Medium Laser      LT      1      1
Medium Laser      LT      1      1
Jump Jets         CT      1      0.5
Jump Jet          RL       2      1
Jump Jet         LL      2      1

The VND-3D was developed in response to the 2 major complaints about the VND-2D, it's slow speed and poor heat dissipation.  By removing a ton and a half of armor and 3 heatsinks the designers could replace the original GM 180 engine with the GM 225 that is used on the Sabre Aerospace Fighter.  The larger engine increased the speed of the Vindicator allowing it to keep pace with the Valkyrie during field trials.  The jump jets are also improved, the old Anderson Propulsion 30 jump jets were replaced with the same Hildco Model 12 Jump Jets that are used on the Watchman and Enforcer. The new jump jets allow the mech to jump up to 150 meters.  In order to deal with the heat generated by the Vindicator, the remaining 11 heatsinks are replaced with double strength models.  This provides a significant upgrade over the VND-2D model. 

The VND-2D replaces the standard Starshield A armor with the more advanced StarGuard Ferro-Fibrous armor.  Despite losing 1.5 tons of armor, the protection of the VND-3D is nearly equal to that of the original VND-1R.

Recently Robinson Standard Battleworks has shifted their upgrade program from the -2D to the -3D model.  It is believed that once all of the remaining VND-1Rs have been upgraded the -2Ds will be brought up to the -3D standard.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2020, 05:36:13 AM »

Three very nice starts to the contest Irose!
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fabulousorcboy

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2020, 12:42:02 PM »

Type: VND-3LB
Production: Ceres Metal Industries (Capella)
   
EQUIPMENT
Tonnage: 45
Internal Structure (Standard) 4.5t
Engine (GM 180) 7t
  Walking: 4
  Running: 6
  Jumping: 4
Double Heat Sinks: 10(20)
Gyro:   2t
Cockpit: 3t
Armor Factor (Standard): 9t (144 pts)
Head: 3 (9)
Center Torso: 14 (18/9)
R/L Torso: 11 (16/6)
R/L Arm: 7 (14)
R/L Leg: 11 (18)

Quirks: Rugged 1 (2x time between maintenance), No Torso Twist
   (Difficult Ejection quirk eliminated in post-3039 redesign)

WEAPONS (17.5t total)
LB 10-X (6cr, 11t, RA)
3x Ammo/LBX 30 shots (3cr, 3t, RT)
CASE (1cr, 0.5t, RT)
2x Medium Lasers (2cr, 2t, H/LT)
Vehicle Flamer (1cr, 0.5t, LA)
1/2x Ammo/Flamer 10 shots (1cr, 0.5t, LA)

3x Double Heat Sinks (0cr, 0t, 2xRT, 1xLT)

The -3LB variant was initially proposed as an infantry support ‘Mech, following lessons learned in the Andurien-Canopian invasion of 3030-35, and further highlighted by the embarassing losses to the Federated Suns as part of CASE JULIET during the War of 3039.  The design saw greater appeal in the late 3030s because it also happened to match the political directives from the new Chancellor, Romano Liao; to find cost-effective ways to increase the industrial and military capabilities of the rump Capellan state, by producing and employing as much newly uncovered Star League-era technology as possible.

The Vindicator was chosen, not only because it was the signature inexpensive, rugged, and widely available medium ‘Mech of the Confederation, but also one whose manufacture was controlled completely by the Chancellor – being manufactured entirely by Ceres Metals Industries of Capella.  As a result, it fit the economic and political centralization that characterized the Romano government.  When it was first unveiled alongside the -3L in 3051, the -3LB was as much a testbed for several weapons technologies as its more widely manufactured variant.  As with the -3L, it utilizes Starshield-brand CASE in one of its torsos, as well as Ceres-branded double heat sinks, not only running extremely 'cold', but freeing up a significant chunk of weight to upgrade its armaments. 

However, the -3LB’s technological legacy is far more controversial than the -3L. The Ceres Metals design team struggled with their primary mandate: developing a showcase weapons system, comparable in hitting power to the classic PPC.  Their goal had been to manufacture a Capellan variant of the Star League era LB 10X autocannon, relatively straightforward given the detailed schematics available from the Helm Memory Core, but ran into difficulty sourcing and vertically integrating all of the sub-components, as demanded by the Chancellor and senior CCAF leadership.  These restrictions dramatically limited the wide-spread deployment of both the -3LB and the LB 10-X system, as the sourcing issues were not resolved until the mid-3060s, when Ceres Metals gained the license to the Firestarter Omni’Mech during the reign of Chancellor Sun Tzu Liao; while this resolved the technical and production issues, it also sidelined the “jack-of-all-trades” Vindicator design for decades.

Their remaining efforts were also failures.  The -3LB at launch was equipped a pair of Ceres Arms 'extended-range medium lasers', providing a reasonable side-grade to the original’s mix of LRM-5 and standard medium laser.  Unfortunately, there were significant problems with the ERMLs, which had been in development since the mid-3040s.  The first was that the design was clearly still in the protoype stage, not ready for mass production, and had issues with venting waste heat, as well as being much bulkier than the ER medium laser design that the FWL eventually debuted in 3058.  The second (and far more headline-grabbing) problem was that the ERML design led to a contentious legal battle when Diverse Optics immediately accused Ceres Metals of simply stealing their prototype ERML design; the case would not be settled until the early 3060s, providing the transparently self-serving rationale for production -3LBs instead mounting standard medium lasers.  The ‘Ceres Arms’ branded ERML in production since 3063 (since the reintegration of St Ives) is actually a completely different design developed in coordination with ComStar for the Helios heavy ‘Mech.

The final weapons system on the -3LB reflects the struggles faced by Ceres Metals in meeting their mandate.  Explicitly designed and marketed as an infantry-support ‘Mech, the -3LB was always intended to include a flamer system in place of the original -1R’s small laser.  Unfortunately, Ceres Metals did not already produce a battlemech flamer in-house, and was forbidden from simply importing one, most obviously from the Free Worlds League (for example, the Olympian brand produced by Irian).  Given the greater emphasis on producing the LB 10-X autocannon system, as well as the time sunk into developing a working ER Medium Laser, design work on a Ceres flamer was delayed repeatedly, until there simply was not enough time even to copy an existing model.  Attempting to make lemonade from lemons, Ceres unveiled – to enormous derision – the ‘Ceres Fire Flower’ brand vehicular flamer, using technology over a millennium old (and easily sourced by Ceres Metals).  The temperamental and ammunition-dependent ‘Fire Flower’ has since been entirely replaced by imported Battlemech flamers following the ascendancy of Sun Tzu after his mother Romano’s death, but has subsequently been utilized in a variety of conventional vehicles manufactured by Ceres Metals.

The -3LB’s only significant positive legacy was that it firmly cemented the concept of an infantry-support ‘Mech into CCAF doctrine.  Although only modest numbers were manufactured initially, it played an outsized role in the earliest ‘Augmented Lances’ utilized in the redesigned CCAF of the 3050s and beyond, and its widely publicized successes in its role (and how thoroughly it endeared itself to the PBI it always accompanied) directly led to the development of the up-engined Snake anti-BA hunter, as well as the popularity of the Firestarter A and G configurations in the CCAF, and the subsequent design and manufacture of the Gun infantry-support Omni’Mech in the 32nd century.  Despite having been surpassed by numerous superior examples of the type, dozens of the solid, workman-like  -3LBs are still in use many decades after their initial unveiling, a testament to both their utility and durability.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 09:38:53 AM by fabulousorcboy »
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2020, 05:52:19 AM »

An interesting Snake (TRO3055) predecessor concept of its own. Unfortunately it doesn't qualify for the contest right as ER Mediums don't yet exist for the InnerSphere (3053-3054). Please change those up. 
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fabulousorcboy

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2020, 09:26:26 AM »

Sorry, for some reason I thought the ER Mediums were developed by 3053.  Regardless, they were a throwaway addition to the design, so easy enough to switch out for standard mediums.

I also forgot about the Snake, which obviously is a Vindicator upgrade -- I think I wasn't thinking of it because the rules for Stream SRM-2 no longer allow Infernos -- so I threw a mention in there as well; thanks for the reminder.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 09:29:48 AM by fabulousorcboy »
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2020, 12:10:20 PM »

No worries. As far as I knew Inferno rounds were never available on the Streak SRM.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2020, 06:28:56 PM »

Just a little Vindicator talk gang with a question to anyone in the know. With an introduction date of 2826 was this the last BattleMech designed in the InnerSphere until the Merlin in 3010?
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lrose

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2020, 07:17:01 PM »

I can't think of anything that was introduced after the Vindicator- all of the other SW designs (Valkyrie, Jenner, Hermes II, Centurion, Enforcer, Zeus) entered service by 2801.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2020, 09:18:52 AM »

That's an interesting list to which I added the Trebuchet;

Enforcer = 2777
Jenner = 2784
Valkyrie = 2787
Zeus = 2787
Hermes II = 2798
Trebuchet = 2799
Centurion = 2801

Still that even makes the Vindicator even more special in my eyes as it is dated 2826 which is about 25 years after the Centurion. You'll also notice that the Hermes II, Trebuchet, and Centurion were all Star League era designs or at least inspired by that by gone era.

The Vindicator is something different though as it is built in between the 1st and 2nd Succession Wars when the Great Houses were salvaging what they could and rebuilding. It certainly shows in the design too.

Aside from downgrades of existing machines there could have been other new construction which just didn't make it. Lot of brutal raiding by the Houses and technological loss which could have claimed these however. Not ComStar Holy Shroud yet. And yet the Vindicator survived. A testament to its design I think.
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lrose

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2020, 11:22:48 AM »

Trebuchet is 2780 per TR3025 and 3039.  Sarna is wrong. 

I'd be surprised if there weren't other designs introduced 2786-2800 that saw very limited production before the factories were destroyed and the designs lost.  If you go through the TRs there are lot of mechs introduced 2760-2785 (Hornet, Vulcan, Quickdraw, Jagernech, Grasshopper, Jack Rabbit, Falcon Hawk, Star Slayer,  Spartan probably others I am forgetting) which leads me to believe that a lot of work was being done on developing new designs - especially as the houses got access to advanced SL tech after the fall of the SL.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Vindicator
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2020, 05:54:53 PM »

Trebuchet is 2780 per TR3025 and 3039.  Sarna is wrong. 

Actually sarna has the 2780 date in their description which eludes to late era Star League service but 2799 is likely the year which the Free Worlds League began production.

I'd be surprised if there weren't other designs introduced 2786-2800 that saw very limited production before the factories were destroyed and the designs lost.  If you go through the TRs there are lot of mechs introduced 2760-2785 (Hornet, Vulcan, Quickdraw, Jagernech, Grasshopper, Jack Rabbit, Falcon Hawk, Star Slayer,  Spartan probably others I am forgetting) which leads me to believe that a lot of work was being done on developing new designs - especially as the houses got access to advanced SL tech after the fall of the SL.

There was a timeline document for Mech designs I will try to locate now.
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