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Author Topic: Optimizing the Warhammer  (Read 17213 times)

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fabulousorcboy

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2021, 11:05:34 AM »

There's a ton of Warhammer love in this thread.  I've got some Grasshopper ideas, but not nearly as many :)

For what it's worth, I think Takiro's 7R is pretty radically different from my St Ives beast.  Sticking with the standard PPCs and loading up on medium lasers, and with enough heat sinks to vent all its firepower, makes it a mid-ranged brawler, but with enough speed to close or at least be a threat against Clan heavy cavalry 5/8 'Mechs.  The small pulse lasers help scrape off any infantry that get close, because it's definitely going to be in the middle of the brawl.  I think it actually plays almost the same as my proposed Comstar 7C, even though the weapons configurations are quite different.

My 7SK goes for long-range support and maneuver: the medium lasers are only there if a speedier light tries to close the distance.  The jumpjets give it additional maneuverability and make it a good sniper even in uneven terrain -- and they're also there because 3-crit Inner Sphere double heat sinks suck up so much internal space that you can't really add more useful energy weapons.

Ice Hellion's 7(C) is a pure switch-hitter, very much like a superior version of the 6D, which is probably the best of the Succession Wars era Warhammers.  It's got 4/6 speed, but the ERPPCs give it long-range firepower and keep it a viable combatant even if opponents try to keep the range up.  And most opponents will prefer that, because the 7(C) absolutely SHREDS at mid range, with ten medium lasers and enough heat sinks for all of them, if you don't fire the ERPPCs.  Ice Hellion stuffs in two small pulse lasers instead of two additional tons of armor, which is a design choice -- I always like maximum armor on heavies and assaults especially, because they're damage sponges and targets, but 180 pips isn't terrible.  And if I were ever assigned a 7(C), it's pretty simple to pull the SPLs and throw on another two tons of armor to near-max it out.

I would definitely play all three of them differently, which I think says a lot about how just engine swaps and different configurations of nearly the exact same weapons can result in very, very different 'Mechs.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 11:10:09 AM by fabulousorcboy »
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2021, 01:38:30 PM »

And if I were ever assigned a 7(C), it's pretty simple to pull the SPLs and throw on another two tons of armor to near-max it out.

The Clans know how powerful an Elemental Star can be  :P

Tis a bit different. I'd say my 7R is closer to fabulousorcboy's very first entry from St. Ives.

I said almost.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2021, 01:50:41 PM »

Alot of good hammers definitely in this thread. I feel like it is a choice between ER PPCs and speed. The 7R is definitely a hard charging slugger. I just feel that the heat of the ERs wasn't justified for 5 additional hexes and no change in firepower especially when you can close faster (5/8). I gotta link in my slower Equalizer here too before the contest ends.

Only ten hours left!
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2021, 03:09:11 PM »

Here is my Equalizer;

EQL-1Z EQUALIZER

Mass: 70 tons
Chassis: Martial QLZ EndoSteel
Power Plant: GM 210 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: None
   Jump Capacity: None
Armor: Durallex Heavy
Armament:
2 Poland Main Model A Gauss Rifles
4 Martell Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Defiance Industries, StarCorp Industries, Independence Weaponry
Primary Factory: Hesperus, Terra, Quentin
Communications System: O/P 3000 COMSET
Targeting and Tracking System: O/P 1500 ARB

Overview:
   One of the first allied defense projects rushed into production by the InnerSphere was this twin Gauss Heavy BattleMech. Originally a FedCom concept, codenamed Mjolnir, designed as a stopgap measure to combat the technological superiority of Clan ‘Mechs. During his recovery Prince Hanse Davion insisted that the proliferation of the InnerSphere Gauss Rifle was the best way to tactically counter the continued threat posed by the invaders. To that end, the AFFC directed Defiance Industries to investigate the possibilities of rapidly adapting a Warhammer to do just that. Since Defiance was already working on a similar project of its own it was well suited to quickly finish construction. While prototype work began cooperation made possible by the Martial Accords also drew in assistance from ComStar and the Draconis Combine. In order to promote acceptance among the Alliance militaries the design was renamed the Equalizer in hopes that it would finally level the battlefield.

Capabilities:
   The Equalizer bares the classic look of the Warhammer but there some obvious visual differences like a thicker armored hide and larger main guns. It also lacks the distinctive missile rack and searchlight mounts of its precursor for an overall appearance that is stockier. Thanks to the newly opened ComStar Archives ancient designs like the Galahad and Hammerhands were extensively studied to avoid any potential pitfalls while searching for new enhancements. The most noted of these were the addition of protected actuators which help deal with the recoil of the Gauss Rifles. Inspiration also came from the much larger Gunslinger in development which sped production and resulted in rapid break throughs.
   Two enormous Poland Main Model A Gauss Rifles mounted in the respective arms of the Equalizer are its main arsenal. Each of these massive rail guns is supplied by sixteen rounds of ammunition which is thought to be enough for a single engagement. Some designers pushed for more ammo stored in the torsos but this would have taken away from the BattleMech’s supporting weapons. Four Martell Medium Lasers are just one of the components borrowed from its predecessor because of their dependability just like the venerable O/P electronic systems. In fact, the lightweight Martial QZ EndoSteel chassis is closely modeled after the original StarCorp 100 skeleton of the Warhammer as well. Retaining these core systems has not only retained its forebearer’s ruggedness but technicians appreciate the familiarity of its inner workings.
   Thirteen and a half tons of Durallex Heavy armor plating provides near maximum protection to this seventy-ton war machine. While good for a Heavy ‘Mech it has weak armor compared to Assault Mechs which can have almost a third more protection. Powered by a nine-ton GM 210 Fusion Engine it’s slow top speed of fifty-four kilometers per hour is comparable to most heavy assault units of the InnerSphere. This is most troublesome to critics of the design who point out the lightning speed of most Clan OmniMechs who can simply outmaneuver it. However, it must be pointed out that this power plant makes the Equalizer extremely tough to kill and cheap to produce with each unit costing only a little over six million C-bills. Thanks to ten Double Heat Sinks the design also runs extremely cool even when pushed to its limit. At maximum performance it can only generate eighty percent of maximum hear dispersal rates meaning that overheating would be extremely unlikely.

Deployment:
At the start of 3054 three allied manufacturers have completed limited production runs which have been routed to frontline forces serving along the Clan Occupation Zone. First shipments to the 1st Sword of Light on Luthien, 321st Division on Orestes, and the 10th FedCom RCT on Pandora have been completed. These troops will conduct extensive field tests along this defensive perimeter before being declared ready for battle. Hopefully approval will be quick so mass production of this BattleMech can be authorized in order to augment InnerSphere forces along the rest of the border. Rapid mass production of this relatively simple bulwark ‘Mech is hoped to cushion the collapse of foreign arms suppliers in the Free Worlds League. While the breakdown of House Marik jeopardizes the logistics chain along the invaders route of advance projects like the Equalizer may yet save the day. Future shipments for AFFC, ComGuards, DCMS, and even remaining Rasalhague Kungsarme units all along the border is already hotly anticipated. As of yet no mercenaries are slated to receive these units but many are eagerly awaiting initial performance reports followed by an open sales market. It is also hoped that more manufacturers like Achernar BattleMechs of New Avalon will license production rights in the near future bolstering future manufacturing.

Type: Equalizer
Technology Base: Inner Sphere - Level 2
Tonnage: 70

Equipment                        Mass
Internal Structure:         EndoSteel         3.5
Engine:            210            9
Walking MP:         3
Running MP:         5
Jumping MP:         0
Heat Sinks:            10 (20)            0
Gyro:                           3
Cockpit:                         3
Armor Factor:            216            13.5

Internal Structure   Armor Value
Head            3         9
Center Torso         22         32 / 11
R/L Torso         15         22 / 8
R/L Arm         11         22
R/L Leg         15         30

Weapons and Ammo      Location      Critical   Tonnage
Gauss Rifle         Right Arm      7      15
Ammo (Gauss) 16       Right Arm      2      2
Gauss Rifle         Left Arm      7      15
Ammo (Gauss) 16       Left Arm      2      2
Medium Laser       Right Torso      1      1
Medium Laser       Left Torso      1      1
2 Medium Lasers       Center Torso      2      2

Cost = 6,165,900 C-bills
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 05:02:05 PM by Takiro »
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fabulousorcboy

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2021, 03:43:54 PM »

Quote
The Clans know how powerful an Elemental Star can be  :P
Well yes.  But small pulse lasers don't have any special benefit against battle-armor anymore, right?  Unless they brought this back in a FAQ or update.  It takes something like an AP Gauss Rifle, that specifically gains the +2d6 damage.  Otherwise the anti-infantry bonus only applies to conventional infantry...which the Clans don't really use.

Which is why I've been throwing standard SRMs on all my anti-Battle-armor designs (that and Artillery Cannons): because they can drop battle-armor with just three inferno missiles.  And the Artillery Cannons can do the same damage to all five members of the Elemental point at once -- and to even more elemental points if they're clustered next to each other in adjacent hexes.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 03:45:27 PM by fabulousorcboy »
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2021, 04:55:35 PM »

Okay, I know I saw Bradshaw do one of these Gauss/ ER PPC combos but how could I not write up my Stormbringer? This was my very first BattleTech custom ever and I wrote in call backs to BattleTech: Shattered Dawn. Hope you enjoy it!

STM-B6R STORMBRINGER
Mass: 70 tons
Chassis: StarCorp 100
Power Plant: VOX 280 XL
Cruising Speed: 43 kph
Maximum Speed: 65 kph
Jump Jets: None
   Jump Capacity: None
Armor: Aldis X Ferro-Fibrous with CASE
Armament: 1 M-7 Gauss Rifle
   1 Kinslaughter Extended Range Particle Projection Cannon
   3 Holly Mk. II Streak Short Range Missile-2s
   2 Martell Medium Lasers
   2 Magna Small Lasers
Manufacturer: StarCorps Industries
   Primary Factory: Terra
Communications System: O/P 3000 COMSET
Targeting and Tracking System: O/P 1500 ARB

OVERVIEW
   Almost as soon as the Clans surfaced InnerSphere powers began looking for ways to counter their technological superiority. ComStar with its massive archives began to review old Star League caches and files for cutting edge SLDF designs which could hold up against the Invaders. Ancient records from the time of Operation Liberation provided certain intriguing possibilities which included a custom Warhammer named the Stormbringer. Belonging to an aide of General Kerensky’s this BattleMech featured impressive long-range firepower and since it was based so heavily on the WHM-6R it could be retrofitted on to existing models. Precentor Martial Anastasius Focht ordered prototypes be built of which only two saw action on Tukayyid. Their performance as well as the need to rebuild the ComGuards rapidly following the Truce justified the subsequent full scale production orders.

CAPABILITIES
   While the Stormbringer is built on the venerable StarCorp 100 chassis it looks different from its forebearer, the Warhammer. Its barrel arms are perhaps the most distinctive thanks to the Lower Arm and Hand Actuators being removed to make way for massive far-reaching cannons. Unsuspecting enemies have learned to beware of these limbs which can rotate backwards when needed. The mammoth M-7 Gauss Rifle first seen on the Clanbuster King Crab replaced one of the original Donal PPCs mounted in the arms while a Kinslaughter Extended Range Particle Projection Cannon found on the Lancelot replaced the other. These main guns hit hard and travel vast distances across the battlefield matching the range of their Clan competitors. In order to make room for this weapon upgrade a VOX 280 XL Engine, mass produced for the OTT-8 Ostscout, was used. While bulky and expensive the inclusion of this lightweight power plant freed up eight tons which went towards the incorporation of the Gauss Rifle. Mating this more heat friendly ballistic weapon with the high heat ER PPC allowed for the use of less Heat Sinks. Fourteen lostech Double Heat Sinks keep the Stormbringer running remarkably cool in even the most stressful combat conditions. A single running Alpha Strike will cause a minor overheat but that can be managed fairly easily by its Mechwarrior. Eleven of these freezers were mounted in the VOX 280 XL Engine while two others were placed in the Left Arm near the ER PPC to help deal with its heat bloom as the fourteenth was located in the Left Torso. Three Holly Mk. II Streak Short Range Missile-2s also replaced the original Holly Short Range Missile Pack-6. This too aided with heat management, accuracy, and provided more than an additional round of SRM ammunition. Both Martell Medium Lasers and the twin Magna Small Lasers were retained from the original WHM-6R along with the reliable O/P electronic systems. Finally, twelve tons of Aldis X Ferro-Fibrous armor was exchanged for the old ten tons of Leviathan Plus plating that protected the old Warhammer. This move improved the Stormbringer’s armor protection by more than twenty-five percent nearly maximizing it’s defenses. A CASE was included as well in the Right Torso in order to prevent catastrophic ammunition explosions from completely destroying the Mech and its pilot. Costing thirteen and a half million C-bills this lengthy refit leaves little internal space for technicians to work but these negatives have been overlooked in light of the Clan threat.

DEPLOYMENT
Incomplete historical records point to a great deal of heroic service in the SLDF during Operation Liberation but those details remain sketchy at best. Both Stormbringer models retrofitted in time for Tukayyid performed exceptionally even though one was destroyed and the other badly damaged. New production along with constant retrofits of older Warhammers by StarCorps of Earth has seen a rapid proliferation of this BattleMech within the ComGuards who continue to rebuild. This design along with some others are proudly seen as links to the gloried past of the Star League within the Guard who fancy themselves as the rightful successors to the SLDF of olde.

Type: STM-B6R Stormbringer
Technology Base: Star League Level 2
Tonnage: 70 tons

Equipment                           Mass
Internal Structure:                         7
Engine:            280 XL            8
   Walking MP:         4
   Running MP:         6
   Jumping MP:         0               0
Heat Sinks:            14 (28)               4
Gyro:                              3
Cockpit:                           3
Armor Factor:            215               12

            Internal Structure      Armor Value
   Head            3            9
   Center Torso           22            33 / 11
   R/L Torso         15            22 / 7
   R/L Arm         11            22
   R/L Leg         15            30

Weapons and Ammo:      Location      Critical   Mass
Gauss Rifle             Right Arm      7      15
Ammo (Gauss) 16          Right Arm      2      2
ER PPC            Left Arm      3      7
3 Streak SRM-2s         Right Torso      3      4.5
Ammo (Streak SRM) 50      Right Torso      1      1
CASE                Right Torso      1      .5
Medium Laser            Right Torso      1      1
Small Laser            Right Torso      1      .5
Medium Laser            Left Torso      1      1
Small Laser            Left Torso      1      .5

Cost = 13,537,384
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2021, 05:01:38 PM »

Ok folks, those are my three Hammers and there is only seven hours left in this contest.

I see there are a few designs without fluff and one is an Ultra AC/5 model. Was gonna have my version made by mercenaries who sought a longer ranged but lower cost variant for service against whom ever. Don't know if that fits but thought I'd put it out there if anyone needs a concept to finish up.

Wonder if masterarminas will make a last second appearance here?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 05:31:33 PM by Takiro »
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Bradshaw

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2021, 09:02:23 PM »

My Ultra AC 5 version i found too costly as posted to be worthwhile. Couldn't figure out a low cost one that actually was good
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lrose

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2021, 09:27:32 PM »


Despite having been beaten to market by Ronin Inc, the StarCorp WHR-8M is quickly becoming the most common Warhammer model in the Free Worlds League.  Designed to provide a hard hitting punch, the WHR-8M is a more extensive upgrade then the Ronin model.  One of the most notable changes is the replacement of the PPCs with a pair of Extended Range Large Lasers.  While StarCorps had hoped to retain the PPCs, the ongoing shortage of PPCs force the engineering to replace them with the Diverse Optics lasers.  This did save weight for a number of other changes to the mech.  The old SRM rack was replaced with a pair of Streak Launchers, improving ammo efficiency.  This improvement was so dramatic that the engineers were able to add a second pair of missile racks to the left shoulder, above the searchlight.  The designers also added a pair of LRM racks to provide more long range firepower. This was done in part to compensate for the loss of the long range PPCs.  The addition of the LRMs force the removal of the Small Laser and machine gun systems.  To ensure the mech is capable of dealing with any infantry it may encounter a pair of small pulse lasers have been mounted on the torso. To compensate for the high heat generated by the Warhammer, it carries 15 double strength heat sinks.  The ammo bays are protected by CASE systems, lessening the risk of an ammo explosion.  Finally the Warhammer carries 12.5 tons of Durallex armor allowing it to survive on the modern battlefield.


Model WHR-8M
Mass: 70 tons
Chassis: StarCorp 100ES
Power Plant: Magna 280
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 64.8 kph
Jump Jets:  None
Jump Capacity: 0
Armor: Durallex Heavy with CASE
Armament:
   2 Diverse Optics Sunbeam Extended Range Large Lasers
   2 LongFire LRM Racks
   4 Irian Weapons Work Class 2 Streak Racks
   2 Diverse Optics Type 18 Medium Lasers
   2 Sunglow Prism-Optic Small Pulse Lasers
Manufacturer: StarCorps
Primary Factories:  Emris IV
Communications System: Barret Party Line-200
Targeting and Tracking System: Wasat Watchdog W100

Type: WHR-9D
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Tonnage:  70 tons

Equipment:                 Mass
Internal Structure      Endo      3.5
Engine      280         16
   Walking MP:   4
   Running MP:  6
   Jumping MP:  0
Heatsinks       15 (30)      5
Gyro:               3
Cockpit               3
Armor Factor      200      12.5
         IS      Armor
Head         3      9   
CT         22      29/10
R/L Torso      15      20/9
R/L Arm      11      22
R/L Leg      15      25

Weapons & Ammo   Location   Critical   Tonnage
ER Large Laser       RA      2      5
ER Large Laser      LA      2      5
LRM 5         RT      1      2
Streak SRM 2      RT      1      1.5
Streak SRM 2      RT      1      1.5
Ammo (50)      RT      1      1
CASE         RT      1      0.5
Medium Laser      RT      1      1
Small Pulse Laser   RT      1      1
LRM 5         LT      1      2
Streak SRM 2      LT      1      1.5
Streak SRM 2      LT      1      1.5
Ammo (24)      RT      1      1
CASE         RT      1      0.5
Medium Laser      LT      1      1
Small Pulse Laser   LT      1      1
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2021, 10:01:53 PM »

My Ultra AC/5 model doesn't work cause of a lack of existing EndoSteel frame for the Warhammer. I can't really justify it at this time as the motive behind the concept is savings. in my opinion such lightweight frames need to be in existence for at least a little bit to make it reasonable. Perhaps in the future.

Nice Irose!

Only two hours to go!!
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2021, 04:25:37 AM »

And that's all folks for the Warhammer, thanks for participating. No further entries please!
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2021, 03:54:45 PM »

My Ultra AC/5 model doesn't work cause of a lack of existing EndoSteel frame for the Warhammer. I can't really justify it at this time as the motive behind the concept is savings. in my opinion such lightweight frames need to be in existence for at least a little bit to make it reasonable. Perhaps in the future.

That was my problem with XL Engines or smaller/bigger ones, finding a supplier and/or keeping costs low enough.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2021, 07:30:25 PM »

I agree Ice, it was hard to find a 350 XL in 3053.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2021, 08:25:21 PM »

Endo steel is endo steel, its just changing the frame. Insert mold a instead of b for designs
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the Warhammer
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2021, 01:57:52 PM »

Yes and no, on EndoSteel construction. Sure if you have an EndoSteel foundry which i think has to be in a zero-G environment. Not easy for mass production at this time. Building a custom or two, yes. Mass production wise I'd like to have a facility dedicated to the process.

While I think EndoSteel is super beneficial weight saving wise and would love to do it on every Mech almost performing modifications to exist machines is difficult in my estimation. You basically have to take it apart and rebuild it around the new EndoSteel skeleton.
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