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Author Topic: Quicksilver Next Step  (Read 3336 times)

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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2018, 07:05:59 PM »

Filling the Gaps (Clan OmniFighters)
Aerospace Expansion https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2581.msg37476#msg37476


OmniFighters

Quicksilver Program #20: 25 ton Clan OmniFighter
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2774.0

Quicksilver Program #21: 30 ton Clan Omnifighter (BEAT THE VANDAL!!)
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2784.0

Quicksilver Program #22: 55 ton Clan Omnifighter
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2794.0

Quicksilver Program #23: 65 ton Clan Omnifighter
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2798.0

Quicksilver Program #24: 85 ton Clan Omnifighter
 https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2805.0

Quicksilver Program #25: 95 ton Clan Omnifighter
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2808.0

Quicksilver Program #26: Fire Mandrill Supplemental
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2812.0

Quicksilver Program #27: Ice Hellion Supplemental
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2815.0

Quicksilver Program #28: Coyote Supplemental
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2819.0

Quicksilver Program #29: Nova Cat Supplemental
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2824.0


Aerospace Fighter

Gaugamela: 70-ton Clan ASF
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=2828.0
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 03:11:47 PM by Takiro »
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2018, 07:17:40 PM »

Marauders last post should be used as the preface for this TRO it perfectly states why the trials needed to be done after the reality of Tukayyid
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2018, 11:53:58 AM »

Marauders last post should be used as the preface for this TRO it perfectly states why the trials needed to be done after the reality of Tukayyid

Pshaw! its not that good :D But thank you :D
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2018, 07:24:31 AM »

Question, I recall seeing some mentions of different Clan ideologies (aggressor, traditionalist etc) is this something that's come about in the Quicksilver history or something else? Where might I find out more about these ideologies?
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2018, 12:54:40 PM »

I have a bunch of stuff i have to get out to you and everyone else marauder648. Hopefully i will have a fanbook or three put together by the end of the year myself.

The only new philosophy i am aware of is the Foresaken. Those who think vehicles are not modern tools of combat and beneath true warriors. Crusaders and Wardens still exist although the designation between Invading and Home Clans will soon disappear as all join the invasion.

Summations on each Clan are in the works cause their has been alot of changes.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 12:57:55 PM by Takiro »
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2018, 12:54:47 PM »

Invading and Home Clans will soon disappear as all join the invasion.

Such a large reveal hidden away in there
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2018, 02:55:23 PM »

Here's the Cargo chart we were talking about last week. So that one vehicle we mentioned with 6 tons of cargo could theoretically carry 168 Jump Infantry. Or I'm missing reading this and its 6 tons to carry just the 28. They never should have had the write up for Dropships and mechs/vehicles in same place makes it confusing.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 02:57:22 PM by Bradshaw »
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Vition2

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2018, 03:40:43 PM »

How that is supposed to work is the Bay/Compartment tonnage is for a full platoon of infantry.

Bays are considered to be longer term storage, while compartments are the equivalent to standing/sitting room only.  In combat vehicles you are looking to use compartments much more frequently than bays.

This means that a 6 ton infantry compartment could fit 2 Foot Infantry platoons (~56 soldiers plus equipment), or 1 of any of the other types of infantry (so ~28, 28, and 5 soldiers plus equipment respectively.

The issue is that, for example, an omni-vehicle could suddenly have the capability of fitting massive numbers of infantry on a seemingly small frame - omni-ize an Abrams-equivalent for example and you could look at a similar sized vehicle carrying 3 or 4 platoons of infantry.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2018, 04:02:56 PM »

Thanks for the clarification. 
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2018, 01:41:05 PM »

Tanks in the Clans – The unwanted necessity

Culture and Doctrine

It was only with the first raids against the Clans that we discovered they still employed vehicles, for during their initial assaults against the Inner Sphere during Operation REVIVAL the Clans brought no vehicles with them for front line duties.  But vehicles were more common with the Clans second, and third line forces, the Provisional Garrison Clusters mainly full of older Warriors or those who have been injured or demoted for failure or some dishonor as well as failed aspirants who were not weeded out by the Sibko system but instead failed their final test to become a Warrior.   Vehicles like the Indra, Mars or Mithras became known opponents to the military of the Inner Sphere and this in turn caused some confusion.

First, the naming convention stuck out as similar to that used by the Aerospace assets of the Clans, all of which are named after things related to Genghis Khan or ancient tribes.  Vehicles were, in turn, named after ancient war gods or deities associated with war and violence.  For both fighters and tanks, this indicates that there may well be a central authority or even production facilities where these are constructed and then traded or won by the Clans for distribution although this is pure speculation at the moment.

More confusion was caused by how different Clans treat and use vehicles.  Whilst we know about the Warden and Crusader split and its differing ideologies and interpretations, there appears to be further splits within these two broad terms and this also affects the individual Clan’s doctrine and tactics as well as the use of other vehicles like fighters, tanks and warships. 

Conversations with various Clan Bondsmen have given us some insight into the Homeworlds and the Clans that we have not yet encountered.  Of considerable note are Clan Hells Horses.  The Horses according to Warrior Bjorn Ghost Bear use Mech’s and vehicles much to other Clans annoyance and irritation but we are unsure if these are the vehicles we have encountered and gathered data on or some as yet unseen OmniVehicle, the Wolf’s Dragoon’s Badger shows that such vehicles are possible and further investigation will be needed should we face the Horses in battle.

As for the current vehicles that we have encountered, none fall into typical SLDF norms or are recognisable as them and are clearly all developed by the Clans, but as was mentioned their use and crew efficiency tends to vary wildly. 

In a raid on La Grave by elements of the 22nd Avalon Hussars the PGC troops reacted vigorously to the Hussars landing, deploying a large number of Mechs and vehicles, but the vehicles operated completely independent of one another and didn’t even support the Mechs and the two forces piecemealed into the Hussars resulting in very heavy Falcon casualties.  This lack of coordination and support has been seen in Jaguar space but conversely a raid on Wolf space by Renfields Renegades saw the Wolf vehicles working rather well together, still below the levels of front line RCTs but more akin to Militia standards, but still superior to how the Falcon and Jaguar tanks fought.

Questioning of Bondsmen taken at Tukkayid and in raids since have given a great deal of insight into this lack of discipline or mild competence amongst Clan vehicles.  The crews of Clan vehicles are by their standards second or third-rate forces.  Falcon tanks were crewed by Labour Caste personnel with a Warrior acting as the vehicles commander, but even these warriors were old by Clan standards and were clearly ‘Solhama’ personnel, those Clan warriors deemed too old, injured or sick to be of any use in front line forces and who are expected to fight and die for their Clan rather than to die in bed.
For staunch Crusaders like the Falcons and Jaguars, being assigned a vehicle is a death sentence, the warriors who crew them are expected to die and at least make themselves useful whilst doing so.  This would explain the berserker charge by an Oro heavy tank against the 22nd BattleRom’s show the tank charging forwards without support firing at a Hussar Stalker before getting in range and causing significant damage with its heavy autocannon.
The Wolves and Bears have a different approach, especially the ‘family’ minded Bears who do not view Solhama personnel as expendable and treat them with greater respect than the other Clans.  Their PGC vehicle formations train and operate together and whilst not as capable as AFFC vehicle crews are far more dangerous than their Falcon and Jaguar cousins. 

Whilst the Clans disdain for vehicles is quite obvious, they are also a necessity.  The limited resources in the Clan Homeworlds and the smaller number of Warriors available mean that quite simply, there are not enough Mechs to go around.  Whilst fortifications are incredibly rare according to various Bondsmen, the Clans still defend their holdings, and this is where vehicles fill a niche and it is beloved that the first Clan vehicles were used purely for security patrols and ensuring that the lower Castes did not get any ideas or cause trouble.  To this end they used their dwindling stocks of SLDF equipment, but this was replaced with the vehicles we have encountered.  Historical data is very hard to get on the Clans as we have yet to recover any databases with such information, and Warriors questioned on it know little of their Clans history outside of the Remembrance, so the dates on when this switch over happened are thus far eluding us as is who ordered it. 

The newer vehicles incorporated Clan developed weapons and use less crew than their SLDF standby (the Mars has a crew of 5, Commander, Gunner, ‘Loader’, Driver, ‘Radio Operator’) reducing the logistics strain on the Clans who produced and use them.  If this is driven by a central production or design facility this would make sense as it would greatly reduce the number of spares and equipment needed and a centralized production plant fits with the Clans ‘Command Driven’ economy.  With cheap to produce but well-armed vehicles allow the Clans to make a better use of any Solhama personnel they have instead of using them as infantry forces and allowed these troops to contribute something towards their Clan in a battle and with their death if necessary. 

Vehicle assessment

So far, fifteen Clan vehicles have been encountered ranging from 20-ton scouts to 95-ton assault tanks and they share common features.  Unlike the House forces, fusion engines are common as is the employment of Ferro-Fibrous armour to increase protection.  ICE engines are rare and only the Zorya light tank features an ICE whilst all others use fusion plants, but none use an XL engine and almost uniformly, armour is sacrificed, giving way for more weapons or increased speed.  Using the Ares medium tank as an example of this, the vehicle at 40 tons is comparable to the Myrmidon medium tank, but whilst both vehicles are the same speed, with an LRM 10, LRM 15 and ER large laser the Ares punches far harder than any vehicle in its weight class, even a Manticore, a 15 ton heavier vehicle would struggle to match this if it could bring all its weapons to bare. 
But the Ares pays for this impressive firepower by having thinner protection than a Scimitar hovertank and its protection is little superior to a Galleon.

At the opposite end of the spectrum the 95-ton Mars, the largest combat vehicle in Clan service has enough firepower to rival an assault dropship with its weapons covering every range and firing angle making it a mobile fortress.  But much like the Behemoth tank it is achingly slow and can barely exceed 30kph.  And, for all its huge firepower it compares poorly in comparison to our new Challenger X which is 5 tons lighter. 
The Ku, probably the most common tank encountered by AFFC forces has firepower to rival a Von Luckner, but its protection is inferior to tanks 10 – 15 tons lighter than it is.  Whilst we know that the Clans do not place much value on the lives of their MechWarriors, they definitely place even less value on vehicle crews who are usually expected to die in battle and ‘accomplish’ something, and even crew prisoners taken from the Bears indicate this willingness to sacrifice their lives for their Clan. 

Unit CO’s should be informed that Clan vehicle forces may well concentrate fire, a rarity in engagements against the Clans but Wolf and Bear vehicles focused their firepower in several engagements and with the Clans firepower and range advantage several Mechs were heavily damaged before the engagement truly began.

Clan vehicles tend to focus on long to mid-range firepower with the light and medium tanks having either a light autocannon or a laser backed up by LRM’s, the Hachiman and Ishtar can pump out as many missiles as an Archer or Catapult whilst the Ishtar also boasts a fearsome punch from its autocannons.  There is no Demolisher, Ontos or Hetzer analogue in Clan service nor any equivalent of the Harasser or Saladin series and most Clan vehicles tend to be tracked or wheeled with hovertanks being used as APCs that are roughly similar to the Maxim in terms of performance.  The Clans only seem to have two APC’s in service, the Indra and Svantovit, and only the Svantovit can carry Elementals, all be it in incredibly cramped conditions.  Due to the disdain the Clans place on standard infantry forces the Indra is often deployed without any personnel carried onboard.  With the mobility provided by OmniMechs for Elementals and the general disdain for more traditional infantry forces this lack of APCs is understandable.

The Clans also lack dedicated support platforms outside of the rarely seen Huitzilopochtli artillery platform seen in Jade Falcon service.  There is no analogue to the LRM or SRM carrier, but the Clan vehicles generally do not lack for long range firepower as the most commonly seen vehicles feature LRM batteries to a greater or lesser degree.  The Clans also have two ‘Fire Support tanks’.  The first is the Hachiman, which has more firepower than a standard Archer on a 50-ton chassis and the Ishtar, which combines a LRM-15 with a brace of autocannons, making it more akin to a traditional heavy tank, and it is this role its most often used.  The most common vehicles are Medium and light tanks with the main fighting done by Mithras, Zorya and Ares with Hachiman FSV’s providing additional firepower.  The Ku assault tank has been spotted in built up areas along with the Oro, often accompanied by Indra’s in what the Clans term ‘pacification sweeps’ that might well be carried out by normal police or security vehicles by House forces.
The most common heavy vehicles are the Ishtar and Ku, whilst the Mars has been deployed most commonly in defensive positions due to its lack of speed.  So, by AFFC standards Clan vehicle formations are ‘light’ and comparatively slow and lightly protected but the weight of firepower and the range advantage enjoyed by Clan weapons means they can hit above their weight and should not be disregarded.

Tactical Analysis

Although the Invading Clans do at best make adequate use of vehicles, we should be aware that other Clans are more proficient with their vehicles and should these join the Invasion following the Truce, then we will have to be prepared to face new opponents using new tactics and possibly new equipment.    This is why it is vital that all AFFC forces are aware of and train to counter Clan vehicle forces.  They are an under-utilized threat but one that should not be ignored, especially as the new ilKhan appears to be trying to bind the Clans tighter together and force them to cooperate and any improvement to the Clans already formidable military strength could well include making better use of vehicles.  Our forces launching any offensive action North of the Truce Line will almost certainly face tanks in combat and with the Clans bringing up more troops and equipment from the Homeworlds, the number of engagements where hostile vehicles will be a factor is sure to increase.




Major D Krenbaur
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A lil in universe thing that rattled around my brain for a few days and was done during lunch breaks.  Any thoughts and comments are most welcome!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 01:41:54 PM by marauder648 »
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2018, 02:12:50 PM »

very nice summary. Only thing I note is I can't find any evidence Jade Falcons use vehicles. I looked through Jade Falcon sourcebook and it states that was their full touman as of 3052 and none of the units state vehicles in a cluster. Tak had this on his list I think for this reason.
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2018, 02:49:23 PM »

They used no vehicles at all outside the Huey? Thats bonkers O_o
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2018, 02:51:51 PM »

The Horses according to Warrior Bjorn Ghost Bear use Mech’s and vehicles much to other Clans annoyance and irritation but we are unsure if these are the vehicles we have encountered and gathered data on or some as yet unseen OmniVehicle, the Wolf’s Dragoon’s Badger shows that such vehicles are possible and further investigation will be needed should we face the Horses in battle.

I am not sure how to understand this.

And North of the Truce Line? Shouldn't we say coreward?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2018, 03:08:01 PM »

They used no vehicles at all outside the Huey? Thats bonkers O_o

I haven't gone through all the TRO's to see but on the Huey says its one of the few used in a nontraining role. So there may be more but what they are I have no clue. So either things changed or there were some just used in homeworlds. No clue canon history is always a mess
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Next Step
« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2018, 03:09:39 PM »

This report is written at a time when the IS hasn't met the Horses, and knows little of them.  Bear Bondsmen have said they use vehicles and probably painted the Horses in a distinctly unfavourable light.  Its why I didn't mention the Epona or Athena, both are Horse exclusive AFAIK   And at the time OmniVehicles are not a thing, but the Badger APC which is modular indicates that it can be done and that it may well have been designed by the Clans or at least have Clan help in its construction.  So this AFFC Officer has put 2 and 2 together and thinks that the 'Vehicle Clan' wouldn't use the tanks they've already encountered and may well use a range of OmniTanks and the like. 


And I forgot the term coreward, and just used a sphere oriented 'north' as if looking down on a map,
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