Topic: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs (Read 1451 times)

masterarminas · « **Reply #30 on:** September 06, 2013, 07:45:31 PM »

Vapor Eagle Mk II

Overview:
The rugged and versatile Vapor Eagle is found throughout the Clans of Kerensky. The heaviest medium-weight BattleMech found in second-line and garrison units, it serves as a successor to the revered Dervish, Griffin, and Shadow Hawk designs. Often used as a command BattleMech for medium-weight Stars, the Vapor Eagle is mobile, moderately fast, very well armored, and packs a substantial punch . . . all traits that the Clans admire.

Capabilities:
At 55-tons, the Vapor Eagle manages to weigh in at the very top end of the medium-weight class. This BattleMech has been provided with a 275-rate standard fusion engine that gives the design the ability to walk at speeds of 54 kilometers per hour and run at 86.4 kph. Five jump jets allow for a maximum jump capability of 150 meters.

The design engineers responsible for the Vapor Eagle used an endo-steel chassis for the internal structure and layered nine and one-half tons of ferro-fibrous armor atop (for 98.37% of maximum coverage for a 55-ton unit). Thirteen double-strength heat sinks were installed, but a full jumping alpha strike still strains the system. However, with only movement heat being generated as excess when all weapons are engaged, this was deemed to be sufficient.

The main gun is a long-ranged, powerful, and accurate Large Pulse Laser fitted to the right arm. Three more Medium Pulse Lasers are installed in the left torso in a pattern reminiscent of the SLDF Thunderbolt. At closer ranges, a SRM-6 launcher in the right torso (with 15 salvoes) adds still more firepower to the design. The engineers also included two left arm mounted Machine-Guns (and a half-ton of ammunition for 100 bursts) to deal with any potential infantry threat.

With its accurate and hard-hitting pulse lasers, the Vapor Eagle is easily able to constantly use the installed jump jets while still managing to hit its target, making it the ideal BattleMech for a Star or Trinary (or even Cluster) commander, a fact that the heavy armor protection only reinforces. Many Clan duels and Trials of Grievance are fought from the cockpit of a Vapor Eagle, and for those lucky few Warriors assigned to one, it comes close to achieving the title of the perfect BattleMech.

Code: [Select]

Vapor Eagle Mk II 

Mass: 55 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-D
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 5,608,107 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,089

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 275 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  Large Pulse Laser
    3  Medium Pulse Lasers
    1  SRM-6
    2  Machine Guns
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    91 points                3.00
    Internal Locations: 1 HD, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             Fusion Engine                275                      15.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   2.50
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             13(26)                    3.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 RT
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 182                  9.50
    Armor Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
    CASE Locations: RT, LA                                                 0.00

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     18           27        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  8         
                                           L/R Torso     13           20        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     9            17        
                                             L/R Leg     13           26        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6.00
2 Machine Guns                               LA        0         2         0.50
SRM-6                                        RT        4         1         1.50
3 Medium Pulse Lasers                        LT        12        3         6.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              LA        -         1         0.50
@SRM-6 (15)                                  RT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 14

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      6    Points: 21
5j         5       5       2       0      2     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

masterarminas · « **Reply #31 on:** September 06, 2013, 07:48:37 PM »

And that is the only 55-ton second-line design of the Clans.

Vapor Eagle: Clan Blood Spirit, Clan Coyote, Clan Diamond Shark, Clan Fire Mandrill, Clan Snow Raven, Clan Star Adder, Clan Wolf

masterarminas · « **Reply #32 on:** September 06, 2013, 07:51:48 PM »

Quote from: Dragon Cat on September 06, 2013, 07:34:52 PM

One side note I'd make being standard Mechs I'd have put the additional heats in the legs first before assigning the Endo and Ferro makes best use of them if in water otherwise continue to be quite nice

Most of the designs use DHS as 'fillers' for torsos that (on some designs) are otherwise empty. Those who have items in the torso use the DHS as crit-soakers to prevent ammo explosions. Shrug. It is six of one and half-a-dozen of the other; but I would rather have a DHS in the torso to soak damage than in the legs. Especially since most of these designs are pretty forgiving heat-wise.

MA

masterarminas · « **Reply #33 on:** September 06, 2013, 07:53:09 PM »

Quote from: David CGB on September 06, 2013, 07:35:30 PM

Quote from: masterarminas on September 06, 2013, 07:24:35 PM
Ursus Mk II
alright I will take eighty of them to build three second line units

Eighty? EIGHTY? That will be 391,960,000 C-Bills before tax, Sir. Please allow up to two years for delivery. (Shipping and handling are not included in the above price.)

MA

JPArbiter · « **Reply #34 on:** September 06, 2013, 10:42:47 PM »

I should point out that not all Standard Battlemechs are strictly second line. the Stalking Spider for example was developed Post Klondike specifically to counter SPhere tactics.

masterarminas · « **Reply #35 on:** September 06, 2013, 11:05:20 PM »

Quote from: JPArbiter on September 06, 2013, 10:42:47 PM

I should point out that not all Standard Battlemechs are strictly second line. the Stalking Spider for example was developed Post Klondike specifically to counter SPhere tactics.

Yeah, but to me that premise always struck me as a retcon (a minor one). From the start of the introduction of the Clans, front-line units had OmniMechs . . . only second-line units were equipped with BattleMechs. But the BattleMechs put out by FASA and their successors weren't (by and large) the low-cost units that I would expect to see in second-line units filled with free-birth and marginal true-borns. Many were as expensive as OmniMechs of equal tonnage . . . and that just doesn't make sense (to me, at least).

MA

Ice Hellion · « **Reply #36 on:** September 07, 2013, 03:27:18 AM »

Quote from: David CGB on September 06, 2013, 07:35:30 PM

alright I will take eighty of them to build three second line units

I don't like the LB5-X.

Ice Hellion · « **Reply #37 on:** September 07, 2013, 03:31:54 AM »

Quote from: masterarminas on September 06, 2013, 11:05:20 PM

Yeah, but to me that premise always struck me as a retcon (a minor one). From the start of the introduction of the Clans, front-line units had OmniMechs . . . only second-line units were equipped with BattleMechs. But the BattleMechs put out by FASA and their successors weren't (by and large) the low-cost units that I would expect to see in second-line units filled with free-birth and marginal true-borns. Many were as expensive as OmniMechs of equal tonnage . . . and that just doesn't make sense (to me, at least).

Why not go for an entire new idea?
Second Line 'Mechs are OmniMechs with few advanced techs but the capacity for one design to do several jobs (you save C-Bills).
When I look at your designs (which are fine) I see several designs competing in the same niche or with the same weapons...
In the end, what is more cost-efficient? Produce a "lot" of different designs or focus on a few less but give them access to the modular tech.

And may I ask why Clan Ice Hellion doesn't seem to use that much Second Line 'Mechs?

Takiro · « **Reply #38 on:** September 07, 2013, 08:03:46 AM »

Aren't OmniMechs more expensive than BattleMechs Ice? I seem to remember a 5% or some such minor add fee from Omnis in cost.

What I never understood was the lack of diversity among Omnis for the Clans. In a general sense you should have every ton chassis with different frills - engine size, internal structural and armor for example things that aren't easy to swap. However if you look at new Omni designs many match the performance of older ones with minor changes. I mean if you got another 100 ton chassis don't make it 3/5 with a 300XL engine.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #39 on:** September 07, 2013, 08:27:29 AM »

Quote from: masterarminas on September 06, 2013, 07:53:09 PM

Quote from: David CGB on September 06, 2013, 07:35:30 PM
Quote from: masterarminas on September 06, 2013, 07:24:35 PM
Ursus Mk II
alright I will take eighty of them to build three second line units

Eighty? EIGHTY? That will be 391,960,000 C-Bills before tax, Sir. Please allow up to two years for delivery. (Shipping and handling are not included in the above price.)

MA

We are the Clans, we care little for you "C-Bills" or taxes, our shipping belongs to our Clans they will move what we want to move

OOC continued nice designs

masterarminas · « **Reply #40 on:** September 07, 2013, 06:34:53 PM »

Quote from: Ice Hellion on September 07, 2013, 03:31:54 AM

Quote from: masterarminas on September 06, 2013, 11:05:20 PM
Yeah, but to me that premise always struck me as a retcon (a minor one). From the start of the introduction of the Clans, front-line units had OmniMechs . . . only second-line units were equipped with BattleMechs. But the BattleMechs put out by FASA and their successors weren't (by and large) the low-cost units that I would expect to see in second-line units filled with free-birth and marginal true-borns. Many were as expensive as OmniMechs of equal tonnage . . . and that just doesn't make sense (to me, at least).

Why not go for an entire new idea?
Second Line 'Mechs are OmniMechs with few advanced techs but the capacity for one design to do several jobs (you save C-Bills).
When I look at your designs (which are fine) I see several designs competing in the same niche or with the same weapons...
In the end, what is more cost-efficient? Produce a "lot" of different designs or focus on a few less but give them access to the modular tech.

And may I ask why Clan Ice Hellion doesn't seem to use that much Second Line 'Mechs?

Quote from: Takiro on September 07, 2013, 08:03:46 AM

Aren't OmniMechs more expensive than BattleMechs Ice? I seem to remember a 5% or some such minor add fee from Omnis in cost.

What I never understood was the lack of diversity among Omnis for the Clans. In a general sense you should have every ton chassis with different frills - engine size, internal structural and armor for example things that aren't easy to swap. However if you look at new Omni designs many match the performance of older ones with minor changes. I mean if you got another 100 ton chassis don't make it 3/5 with a 300XL engine.

Let us look at the Vapor Eagle, for example. It would cost 6,982,427 C-Bills for an Omni-version vs. 5,608,107 C-Bills for the standard BattleMech.

Sure, the Clans do not use C-Bills, but they still must utilize RESOURCES which can be valued in Kerenskies (although I am not certain of the exact exchange rate, LOL).

The Omni-Vapor Eagle consumes more than 24.5% GREATER resources than the standard BattleMech.

To my mind, that is a good reason NOT to utilize Omni-tech for second-line forces.

As to your second question, the Clans listed for each of the 'Mechs above are not the USERS, but rather the Clans that have PRODUCTION lines for that particular 'Mech. Rest assured, the Hellions use a great many of these 'Mechs (as do all Clans), they just don't have as many factories as larger Clans.

Takiro, if I were designing the canon OmniMechs, that is exactly what I would do. Have ONE 50-ton chassis (for example) moving at 5/8, another at 6/9, and another at 7/11 with no fixed jump jets or equipment for maximum flexibility.

MA

JPArbiter · « **Reply #41 on:** September 07, 2013, 08:05:29 PM »

Quote from: masterarminas on September 06, 2013, 11:05:20 PM

Quote from: JPArbiter on September 06, 2013, 10:42:47 PM
I should point out that not all Standard Battlemechs are strictly second line. the Stalking Spider for example was developed Post Klondike specifically to counter SPhere tactics.

Yeah, but to me that premise always struck me as a retcon (a minor one). From the start of the introduction of the Clans, front-line units had OmniMechs . . . only second-line units were equipped with BattleMechs. But the BattleMechs put out by FASA and their successors weren't (by and large) the low-cost units that I would expect to see in second-line units filled with free-birth and marginal true-borns. Many were as expensive as OmniMechs of equal tonnage . . . and that just doesn't make sense (to me, at least).

MA

hardly a Retcon, since with the exception of the Wolf and Falcon Sourcebooks we have NO word on hard rosters. likewise therte are second line clusters with OmniMechs, just a significantly lower percentage. for me the clans are not looking at cost, nor amount of resources required, but would rather look at "what do we make and how can we continue to take advantage of those components.

take the 375 XL engine, utilized on the Mad Cat. it really can only be mounted on 75 ton mechs, of which the clans only produce the Mad Cat to use. building other mechs that use the 375 allows you to maximize resoure allocation since the engines are already being built. the ultimate study in this is the Blood Kite, which utilizes ER large lasers, LRM 15s, and SRM 4s all weapons that the Spirits build in quantity. you wil note Spirit Mechs, fighters, and armor tend to use these weapons

Takiro · « **Reply #42 on:** September 07, 2013, 10:18:24 PM »

Quote from: masterarminas on September 07, 2013, 06:34:53 PM

Takiro, if I were designing the canon OmniMechs, that is exactly what I would do. Have ONE 50-ton chassis (for example) moving at 5/8, another at 6/9, and another at 7/11 with no fixed jump jets or equipment for maximum flexibility.

Sounds about right. If I do fanon versions for say the 100 ton chassis there will be 3 different kinds. The Dire Wolf is the 300XL base but there would be a 400XL speed version (i.e. the Iron Cheetah) and a 300 standard that could take a beating. Might just create such a design.

Oh and Master A this second line philosophy could make Star League 'Mechs with XL engines useful again as a preferred equipment type. Plus there is plenty of subpar InnerSphere XLs for replacement parts or to be used in said fashion.

Quote from: JPArbiter on September 07, 2013, 08:05:29 PM

hardly a Retcon, since with the exception of the Wolf and Falcon Sourcebooks we have NO word on hard rosters. likewise therte are second line clusters with OmniMechs, just a significantly lower percentage. for me the clans are not looking at cost, nor amount of resources required, but would rather look at "what do we make and how can we continue to take advantage of those components.

take the 375 XL engine, utilized on the Mad Cat. it really can only be mounted on 75 ton mechs, of which the clans only produce the Mad Cat to use. building other mechs that use the 375 allows you to maximize resoure allocation since the engines are already being built. the ultimate study in this is the Blood Kite, which utilizes ER large lasers, LRM 15s, and SRM 4s all weapons that the Spirits build in quantity. you wil note Spirit Mechs, fighters, and armor tend to use these weapons

Great point JP, I'd love to go over the basics of which engines could fit what.

Ice Hellion · « **Reply #43 on:** September 08, 2013, 03:21:01 AM »

Quote from: masterarminas on September 07, 2013, 06:34:53 PM

Quote from: Takiro on September 07, 2013, 08:03:46 AM
Aren't OmniMechs more expensive than BattleMechs Ice? I seem to remember a 5% or some such minor add fee from Omnis in cost.

Let us look at the Vapor Eagle, for example. It would cost 6,982,427 C-Bills for an Omni-version vs. 5,608,107 C-Bills for the standard BattleMech.

Sure, the Clans do not use C-Bills, but they still must utilize RESOURCES which can be valued in Kerenskies (although I am not certain of the exact exchange rate, LOL).

The Omni-Vapor Eagle consumes more than 24.5% GREATER resources than the standard BattleMech.

To my mind, that is a good reason NOT to utilize Omni-tech for second-line forces.

MA

I see your point but I think mine wasn't clear enough.
Let's get back to the Vapor Eagle: you said it, an Omni Vapor Eagle cost 24,5% more than a standard one.
But what if with this Omni and only a slight change in weapons, you can have it replace in two battles, two different 'Mechs (let's say an infantry killer and a fire-support 'Mech). So this time, your Omni would not be 24,5% more costly but 37,75% less costly.
This is the way Omni should be used: make more with less.

Gabriel · « **Reply #44 on:** September 08, 2013, 09:25:39 AM »

I like your thread. Clan Fennec utilizes both Omnimech and Standard Battlemechs in both Front line and Second line forces. We tailor our forces to handle specific tasks. We have Cavalry (Light ,Medium and Heavy ) Horse ( Light and Horse ) Hussar, Dragoon and Striker.

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Author Topic: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs (Read 1451 times)

masterarminas

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

masterarminas

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

masterarminas

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

masterarminas

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

JPArbiter

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

masterarminas

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

Ice Hellion

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

Ice Hellion

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

Takiro

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

Dragon Cat

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

masterarminas

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

JPArbiter

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

Takiro

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

Ice Hellion

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs

Gabriel

Re: The REAL Clan Second-Line BattleMechs