TakiroBlakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« on: August 23, 2008, 07:38:40 PM »Hey gang all this talk about the Word of Blake brought up one of my favorite BattleTech alternates. I started but never finished a re-write of the Fall of Terra scenario book in which the Blakist seized Earth. However in my alternate version ComStar successfully repulsed the invaders with some help. Here is what I finished writing, sorry its not more.
Staving off DisasterOrigins
Early in 3058 the new Precentor of Oliver, Robert Petrovka, noticed a large number of Word of Blake troops were on the move. Petrovka was a deep cover sleeper agent from ComStar who joined the Word of Blake during its initial formation. Using his limited resources he discovered much of Operation Odysseus, the Word of Blake’s plan to conquer Terra. His investigation however was detected by the Word of Blake’s feared intelligence branch, ROM. Petrovka narrowly managed to escape on an outgoing dropship bound for New Earth.
Petrovka would have certainly been killed when he arrived on New Earth by Blakist operatives if not for the timely intervention of Michael York. York, the Precentor of New Earth and lifelong friend, had come to the main spaceport to check on the security measures for the arrival of General Brenda Bradley in two days. On behalf of ComStar Precentor York had tried to hire the Illician Lancers commanded by General Brenda Bradley to replace the departing Brion’s Legion who had served as Terra’s garrison for years. It was York’s plan to lure the Lancers into ComStar service by pitching a return to their ancient headquarters on Earth. The scheme was ultimately a fallback position for the ComGuards who wanted to hire the 21st Centurai Lancers. However, the Primus allowed York to try because of his impassioned feelings on the subject and his growing reputation in ComStar.
While their February meeting was unnecessary after ComStar officially announced the hiring of the 21st Centurai Lancers on November 30, 3057 both the Precentor and the General decided to go ahead with it anyway. York and Bradley wanted to meet face to face because they had developed a budding friendship during their negotiations via HPG. Precentor York was stunned to find his old friend and known Blakist Precentor Petrovka at the spaceport. Before they could speak pursuing Blakist agents began a shootout with York’s entourage trying to kill Petrovka. In a running gun battle the Blakist were eventually killed but only after they had shot their own Precentor. York hearing his friend’s incredible story went to General Bradley and informed her upon arrival of the pending assault.
Operation Phoenix
Luckily Precentor Michael York was a very influential individual with connections spread throughout the InnerSphere. A direct descendant of Primus Hollings York this New Earth native joined ComStar when he came of age. Fascinated with the study of history, in particular the Star League era, he is credited with the discovery of many lostech artifacts during his youth. Enlisting in the ComGuards he quickly rose through the ranks thanks to his natural leadership abilities and raw charisma. Michael proved to be a fierce Mechwarrior in a Star League modified Warhammer that he discovered called Stormbringer. Serving with the Eighth Army on Tukayyid he helped defeat Clan Diamond Shark in the Kozice Valley. A vocal supporter of the Reformation he was named the next Precentor of New Earth by Primus Mori in 3054.
York would use his famous background and rising celebrity within the Order to stave of disaster. First he met with Precentor III Patrice King who was the commanding officer of the 34th Division (Black Glove Division) headquartered on New Earth. This elite ComGuard unit could respond rapidly because it was concentrated in and around the area. While King had her doubts about the mission she agreed that something had to be done. However, her combined arms unit (an Upsilon formation) which consisted of 41 BattleMechs, 45 tanks, 91 infantry platoons, and 39 aerospace fighters could hardly repel such a massive Blakist invasion on its own. Contacting other nearby ComGuard Divisions could tip off the Word of Blake who might move forward their attack plans. While the Thirty Fourth quietly prepared for departure Precentor York would have to find additional help elsewhere.
He began to search for other mercenary commands that could help defend Terra. In the end he got four units to join his cause. Smithson’s Chinese Bandits who had recently left Marik service were perhaps the easiest to convince. With a promise to help rebuild their command the Bandits jumped at the chance to repay the Primus-in-Exile for his ill treatment of the unit. Ace Darwin and his Whipits also signed on. This on the fly mercenary unit assembled a company of BattleMechs with some supporting forces. Also available for immediate work on Outreach was the massive aerospace force known as Hell’s Black Aces. These aces would prove to be instrumental in gaining air supremacy. Lastly Precentor York managed to contract the Lone Wolves on Galatea who were as always looking for a fight. Their two Mech battalions were the last ones in range he could absolutely count on.
Without delay York had also signed the Illician Lancers to an emergency contract but unfortunately they would not arrive in time for battle. General Bradley desperately wanted to participate in this decisive battle which would finally reunite her unit and its homeworld. Thanks to Precentor York however one unit of the Lancers would make it in time to participate in what became known as Operation Phoenix. Using contacts in New Earth Trading Company he arranged for a jump circuit to be established for the 59th Strike Regiment use. Bradley had a larger vision for victory on Terra and the future to come. She also wanted the Lancers fellow mercenaries to come home as well and determine for themselves their own destiny. To this end she contacted the Wolf Dragoons and the Northwind Highlanders just before the taskforce left. The statement of her intentions that included restoration a Terran state under mercenary control also asked for their assistance in the operation to defeat the Word of Blake.
Battle for Earth
Precentor York contacted Primus Sharilar Mori as Taskforce Phoenix got underway on February 28, 3058 and informed her of the situation. Shocked she ordered the ComGuards to full alert but was stymied by Blakist operatives. The Shadow Lancers were stunned by the appearance of Terran forces but merely moved up their well-planned sneak attacks by a few hours. With the Primus’ support York’s forces jumped into system while simultaneously contacting other ComGuard troops in the Terran Corridor requesting immediate assistance. While in transit General Bradley sent word to the Wolf Dragoons and the Northwind Highlanders. She hoped that these two large mercenary commands would join her cause and help fend off the Blakist assault on Terra. Later that day the main Word of Blake assault forces arrived closer to Earth than Taskforce Phoenix thanks to a trans-lunar pirate point.
Blakist Precentor Martial Trent Arian was stunned by the appearance of Taskforce Phoenix but decided to go ahead with Operation Odysseus as planned. Witnessing the Word of Blake’s deployment across the Sol System Precentor Michael York did the best he could to coordinate with the commander of ComStar’s Terran Defense Forces, Precentor Lisa Koenigs-Cober. Ultimately York decided to break his Teskforce down into three Relief Forces aimed at linking up with existing ComGuard defenders who could hopefully hold off Blakists assaults until help arrived.
The North American Relief Force which was composed of the 34th Division would be commanded by Precentor III Patrice King. Hopefully they could link up with Precentor Koenigs-Cober and two battalions of the 201st Division to defeat the Shadow Lancers. Meanwhile a European Relief Force made up of Smithson’s Chinese Bandits would land in the British Isles to link up with the Sandhurst Training Regiment. Hopefully under the command of General Brenda Bradley they could slow Blakist advances there. Finally Precentor Michael York would lead a Martian Relief Force compiled from the Lone Wolves and Ace Darwin’s Whipits to defeat the 5th Blakist Divison with the help of cadets from the War Academy of Mars.
blacktigeractualRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2008, 09:38:54 AM » Nice T, Similar to my old group's tale.
In ours a conspiracy of Hegemony restorationists existed since the fall of the Star League. Thier infiltration of the Phone Company (Tigerspeak for ComStar) is so complete that when the WoB break up happens several of thier key members hold Blakist positions. When the 21st Centauri is taken hostage Wolf's Dragoons 7th Commando is hired to bust them loose. The Dragoons are hired along with several regimental sized units to supplement the Terran forces both home raised and existing units to counter the assault.
Pro Terran Forces include:
The Blue Star Irregulars (Escape clause in contract.)
Bolton's Rangers (AWOL from FWL)
Sirian Lancers (Same deal.)
The Eridani Light Horse (After Coventry)(A stretch but the we were always fond of them.)
The Black Tiger RCT (Escape Clause in contract)
The 90th Royal Dragoons (The original Black Tigers of New Vandenburg.)
The 42nd CAAN (The Tigersharks)(Non canon unit)
The 1st Ryukaze (Guess who.)
The 12th Hussars (The White Tigers of Acamar)(Our Acamar campaign occured slightly earlier than was written in the RPG module.)
Plus five local ComGaurd units whose commanders were loyal.
Six day long (Real Time, not in game. I took vacation for this (Yes I am a TOTAL nerd.)battle ensues.
To make a long story short Operation Odysseus fails badly. On Terra and many former Hegemony worlds popular uprisings restore these worlds to rightful Terran rule. Under Director General Mitchell Stuart, ComStar is granted International Organization status and maintains it's Hegemony facilities as "Necissary to combating the Clan Threat." However military production is shifted to support of the HAF.
The Sirian worlds seceede to the Hegemony. Thomas Marik does not object.
The BSI becomes the 1st Royal RCT, the Black Tigers; the 2nd.
Low level warfare between the Cappellan Confederation and the Terran Hegemony over former Chaos March worlds begins.
Unrest on Dieron comes to a head during The Black Dragon Crisis. Black Dragon attacks on Dieron use chemical and biological warfare killing DCMS troops and civilians alike. 1st Royal RCT deployed as "Peacekeepers" despite Combine protests. Hegemony troops hunt the Black Dragons down and publicly execute them while Terran aid heavily influences the populace despite the best efforts of the VOTD. Dieron seceedes along with several other worlds.
Situation simmers without resolution
The Star League is reformed as per Canon. Eridani's join SLDF with Terran Blessings. Mitchell Stuart and Theodore Kurita argue about Dieron.
Everybody decides to pound the Smoke Jaguars.
The 1st Royal RCT joins Operation Bulldog, 2nd Royal RCT joins Operation Serpent.
Events of the Twlight of the Clans occur.
ISF loses contact with Dieron.
Northwind Treaty of Neutrality signed.
Wolf's Dragoons official pardoned for thier ancestors part in the Great Betrayal. General Maave Wolf swears alegeance to House Stuart the 1st Terran BattleMech Division (The Wolf Dragoons Division) is formed.
HAF warfleet led by THS Alexander anihilates a WoB fleet at Procyon.
Real Thomas Marik found by SAS Team 1 having commited suicide after evading CIB agents for two years. As per a secret agreement the body is buried quietly in a SLDF graveyard under the name Albert Humphries.
St.Ives conflict smoulders out as with support from both the FedSuns and the Terran Hegemony prevent Cappellan troops from ever gaining a foothold. Morgan Kell marries Candice Liao.
FedCom Civil war erupts with the failed attempt by Katherine Stiener to assasinate Victor. Sandovaal launchers his attack during the Ghost Bear war. The FedSun manage to restore the 3025 border while the 'Neutral" Terrans consolidate thier hold on the new Dieron Sector. The Skye Revolt plays out with the Free Skye govenment appealing to the Hegemony for support. Hegemony troops reinforce Skye. Falcon Invasion makes greater headway than in Canon.
Tikonov revolts against FedSuns fueled by the Skye Revolt and the Civil War and an apparent atrocity by Davion Troops. When this is revealed to have been set up by the Maskirovka the entire region goes haywire. The Wolf Dragoons sent in by Terra at the request of Vassily Chernenko, leader of the Tikonov Union.
Loki agents assasinate Duke Robert Kelswa-Steiner.
Diplomatic negotitions with the Ghost Bear Dominion begin to have profits.
Katherine Steiner deposed by Peter.
Skye joins the Hegemony.
Proof of the Mask's Tikonov operation is brought before the Star League Council. House Liao is censured.
Tikonov joins the Hegemony.
Hegemony-Confederation War begins.
Our game ended with the Tigers defending against thier old nemisis The Big Mac.
Cute huh?
TakiroRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2008, 12:26:36 PM »Great minds think nearly alike. Grin I've run I few different scenarios like this by my latest vision has foreseen this.
Immediate Results of the Battle
1. Primus Sharilar Mori is killed during the Battle for Terra by WoB units. She becomes a martyr to the Reformationists of ComStar who are more determined than ever to destroy those who would pervert Blake's word.
2. As the hero of the hour, savior of Earth, and descendant of Primus Hollings York - Precentor Michael York of New Earth is unanimously elected Primus by the First Circuit. He quickly moves to cleanse the order of Blakist and passes many new reforms including the disbandment of ROM which failed to notice the Blakist attack. In its place he founds ComStar Security (ComSec) which is to be built from the ground up by Precentor Robert Petrovka.
3. Led by General Bradley of the Illician Lancers the people of Terra and the ancient Hegemony begin their re-emergence. The Terran Union is born as many mercenary commands of Terran and Star League origins join up to create a new nation at the center of the InnerSphere. Kinda of the next step up from the review board this mercenary nation quickly takes form. Northwind (Highlanders) and Outreach (Wolf Dragoons) are also founding members of the new Union which rapidly picks up worlds in the Chaos March.
4. Primus York and Director-General Bradley establishes a new political relationship. ComStar recognizes Terran independence, receives a 99 year contract
5. Three Word of Blake Divisions escape from Earth and retreat back to the Free Worlds League. They are joined by ROM agents including Victoria Parrdeau displaced in the wake of that organizations disbandment.
Questions for You
1. Terran rebirth destabilizes the InnerSphere. How do the Houses react? What other mercenaries or units join the Union? What worlds do?
2. What happens to WOB? The failure to take Earth now doubt has an affect on the organization but what exactly?
3. Battle of Coventry alternates? Hegira, perhaps not. What happens if the Falcons and IS forces fight it out?
Comments appreciated!
LordGraysonRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2008, 01:22:59 PM »hmm As for relations I see the House Liao and Marik almost surely having poor relations with the new union. The federated sun's would likly love having them there to take the heat off them from the Capcon and FWL aggresion. The lyran's would have a big problem in the form of the skye those guys would just jump into the arms of Union and might start a war with the LC/LA over night not sure the union would love that. The DC is really hard to say if they would have bad relations with the union in the sense of they got a war with the ghost bears and a war with the davion border and o so much internal trouble with the black dragon and such that I can't really say they would welcome the union but I don't think there going to do anything about them untill they start taking some planets from them and on the postive side the union could make the border with the Lyran state even smaller or no longer there at all so the dragon and lyran's might look at that in both good and bad.
Addtional units
Alot of ppl like to say the ELH would join a new TH but the problem is the ELH doesn't want a new TH they want a new Star league so thier not likly to join the union other then as merc's
Blue Star Irr's
Another old unit that has strong connections to the SL(again not the TH)and a even stronger view of the davions as most honorable there not likly to join up or leave the FS's employment.
5th Brigade (SLDF 208th Hussar's,346th Heavy armor reg's)
They keep thier SLDF traditions and might come over to the union with the future problems with the FWL (keeping u keep some of the cannon happening in the FWL)
FWL Sirian Lancer's
Can U say o ys theses 3regiments and thier planets would join in a heart beat with the union,with cannon fluff writen up on them and to think u wouldn't even have to change the fluff even.
Whats left of the canon house and merc units in the choas march I see joining up rather quicky with a strong force such as the Union as either merc's or as house units (1st FC RCT,5th FC RCT,remants of the Republic Guards, and some milita's)
The Skye Ranger's and thier movement
I really really think this is whats going to cause the Union and the Lyran's to be at each others throats if the Union goes and accepts the Skye Federation and its rangers into it. Because u can easly say they would join the Union only to be invaded a short time later by the vengefull Lyran state as the union wont be able to match the Lyran's states eco even with the civil war the lyran eco is still going to out proform the union at the start of the conflict.
One side effect of the rebirth of the TH or union is the Federated Commonwealth Civil war would likly end alot sooner as a new threat appears to give both sides something to think about and likly both sides would quickly gather there forces and move toward defensive positions well trying to figure out what the Union/TH appearance means.
W.O.B is once more back to planning and doing other black ops against there beloved sisters and brothers in comstar and who knows maybe the Bloods/Wolverines appear to supply the WOB's with addtional units.
Coventry hegira why would it change is my only ? since both sides knew it was going to be a blood bath if they fought it out and that the winner was going to be a loser even if they won.
But thats my two cents
blacktigeractualRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2008, 04:02:35 AM » With our game the Sphere is sort of a mess. It was a lot of fun running the reborn but beleagured Hegemony though. On The ELH and the BSI, The ELH did join the SLDF, but the BSI found thier home with the Hegemony. A lot of this stuff happened in the back ground around our characters, only showing up as news bytes, rumor and military reports.
The Conspiracy bit came about from a late night discussion about what would happen to a people who lose thier entire nation because some dude steals thier army. What kind of scars would that leave on their psyche. Even 300 years later unless ComStar did some major "reeducating" there will always be those who yearn for past glories, redress of past wrongs etc.
Anyway it's what drew me here to you guys.
master arminasRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2008, 01:32:40 PM »The Blakist survivors would have retreated to the 'Five' and rebuilt. The Jihad would have been launched with Terra--and any worlds that acknowledged her sovereignity--as its target. The question is, could ComStar--or the new Hegemony, or whatever it is called this week--have stopped THAT (the second) assault?
That's the real question, boys and girls. And how would the rest of the Inner Sphere have reacted to the Jihad--with Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical weapons being used--landing on Terra instead of them? And discovering the Blakists possessed a huge number of WarShips and whole Divisions of MD and Celestials? Got to wonder.
Ice HellionRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2008, 02:47:58 PM »Where do you get the info on the 5?
And the main problem for ComStar would have been to know if their Navy is strong enough to take down the second invasion.
master arminasRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2008, 03:04:57 PM »The 'Five Hidden Worlds' mentioned in TRO3057 (Revised), Jihad Hot Spots, Dawn of the Jihad, etc., etc. There are whole topics over at CBT about them. Apparently, ComStar as a whole did not know of these worlds--just the true believers of what became the Word of Blake. Just as no one knew the inhabitants of those five worlds were the descendents of the Minnesota Tribe (Clan Wolverine) that JOINED ComStar after they returned to the Inner Sphere. That's right, the Manei Domeni are the children's of the Wolverine.
See these five worlds were secret bases Kerensky made in each of the Great Houses without their knowledge. Each contained a full scale shipyard and stockpile of WarShips, 'Mechs, and technology. He left them here without destroying them (how rude of him) when he departed on the Exodus. Then everyone in the Clans and the Inner Sphere forget about them. Until sometime after ComStar declared the divinity of Blake, some lowly accolyte found a file and 'The Hidden Five' were rediscovered. But ComStar never told itself.
Instead it gave the five to the children of the Wolverine (who never told ComStar about where the other Clans were--go figure), who became SO grateful to ComStar (the Word faction) that they converted lock, stock, and smoking genome to the Blakist agenda. To the point that they become the Cyborg MD troopers during the Jihad. And building ships. Lots of ships. And 'Mechs. And Fighters. And BattleArmor. And Nuclear Weapons. And Biological Weapons. And, well, I could go on and on and on.
Anyway, the Blakists took the old ships stored there (ships Kerensky didn't want, like old Monsoons, Farraguts, Davion II's, Nagas, and couple of McKennas--go figure) and restored them to BETTER THAN NEW. Those crazy Blakists. They must have found the holy grail among toaster worshipers--a fully functional battle-stat. . . . .I mean ship-yard. Yeah, ship-yard.
Then the 2nd Star League fell apart and they decided to punish everyone for ruining everything for them AGAIN. And the Jihad went across the heavens and New Avalon was nuked. And there was much rejoicing. And Luthien was nuked. And the rejoicing grew dim. And Artreus was gassed. And the Word should really not enjoy beans and bourban before a planetary assault. Not cool, mate, not cool at all.
Sorry about the whimsical attitude, folks, the whole conspiracy within a conspiracy aspect of the recent Jihad stuff just brings this side of me out. I feel soiled and in need of a shower from all these dreadful things done to my BattleTech. Why couldn't they have just left us alone to enjoy the game? Why? I want my BattleTech back!
TakiroRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2008, 05:11:43 PM »The Blakist survivors would have retreated to the 'Five' and rebuilt. The Jihad would have been launched with Terra--and any worlds that acknowledged her sovereignity--as its target. The question is, could ComStar--or the new Hegemony, or whatever it is called this week--have stopped THAT (the second) assault?
That's the real question, boys and girls. And how would the rest of the Inner Sphere have reacted to the Jihad--with Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical weapons being used--landing on Terra instead of them? And discovering the Blakists possessed a huge number of WarShips and whole Divisions of MD and Celestials? Got to wonder.
How strong would the Blakist be in 3058 Master Arminas? I can't believe they would have the troop strength they did in 3067 for the Jihad. In the canon timeline they had access to Terra and all its goodies. True they have the Five. I could see the Manei Domini forming up but the Blake Militia itself has just faced a major reversal. Three to five divisions left. They would have WMD on their side and the defection of ROM to the WoB cause would help. And warships? Sure they have a few but a huge number? Again Terra gives them the ability to launch more then a couple.
Ice HellionRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2008, 01:58:21 PM »The 'Five Hidden Worlds' mentioned in TRO3057 (Revised), Jihad Hot Spots, Dawn of the Jihad, etc., etc.
So I have a lot of readings to do.
That's right, the Manei Domeni are the children's of the Wolverine.
Apparently, ComStar as a whole did not know of these worlds--just the true believers of what became the Word of Blake. Just as no one knew the inhabitants of those five worlds were the descendents of the Minnesota Tribe (Clan Wolverine) that JOINED ComStar after they returned to the Inner Sphere.
I am the only one to find something strange in the two parts of this paragraph.
Sorry about the whimsical attitude, folks, the whole conspiracy within a conspiracy aspect of the recent Jihad stuff just brings this side of me out.
X Files tunes being played
TakiroRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2008, 04:52:21 PM »I have read the latest so sadly Ice I understand exactly what master arminas is saying. One caveat however is the sources TPTB put info out in can be wrong or misleading. A lot of stuff could be conspiracy crap FYI.
I do have more on this alternate universe but TRO2800 is consuming my time. So more later.
HessianRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2008, 01:15:31 PM »Sadly The Blake Documents hasn't yet arrived over here. (Grumble!)
So I have to rely on what was posted over on the CBT forums.
But from what I could piece together it seems that Master arminas could be correct. But it might also be the case(just as in interstellar players volumes one and two) that the info from The Blake Documents is just another conspiracy theory, or that the information is genuine but incomplete.
At least the map of the Inner Sphere in 3075 and the information on the WoB Militia and the Protectorate Militia seem to be genuine from what I read over on the CBT forums.
Ice HellionRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2008, 02:01:56 PM »I have read the latest so sadly Ice I understand exactly what master arminas is saying. One caveat however is the sources TPTB put info out in can be wrong or misleading. A lot of stuff could be conspiracy crap FYI.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.TakiroRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2008, 07:12:52 AM »What would a Mercenary Nation like the Terran Union resemble? How would the Interstellar Realm function? This is a question I'm trying to think through right now. Mercenaries would have their own Protectorates so to speak ranging from one system plus. Then there is the aside were other groups would be vassals to larger maybe founding members of the Union. Say some merc group joins the Union like the Tau Ceti Rangers and is given New Earth by the Illician Lancers. The Lancers would still be the "Mercenary Lord" so to speak and the Rangers in this example their vassal. Another important question is civilian authority. I see it on the planetary and even legislative level but again the Merc Lords (Wolf Dragoons, Illician Lancers, and Northwind Highlanders to start out anyway) would be the Provincial authority (star system plus) and the executives of the nation. How would new members and worlds be incorporated? I'm thinking this nation might be have in a pretty strange fashion. I.E. selling arms, their own services, and what of planetary militias. Lot of interesting questions. What is you vision of a Mercenary Nation??
Ice HellionRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2008, 01:16:34 PM »A Mercenary State?
I do understand the feudal approach but I think the civilian side of this nation would probably be ruled by civilians.
They would be subordinated to Mercenaries but still civilians.
I could see something like Switzerland becoming used there: several different big Protectorates with smaller ones and all "answering" to a kind of Federal Council (that could be strong or not) but only for some specific and foreign questions.
Do not forget also the no fight against each other and against the Terran Union clauses in the contract.
The long term evolution would depend on the fights between the Federal Council and the Protectorates and between each Protectorate.
Three evolutions are possible: the Federal Council grows in power (leading in the end to another Successor State with prestigious units), the Protectorates fight each other (leading to the Chaos March) or the system stays the same as I first described it.
TakiroRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2008, 01:30:49 PM »It is almost like establishing a new political ideology. Replacing the Neo Feudal system with a shadowrun corporate government. See the two things we have making up the Union are Mercenaries and a reforming ComStar. If the secular ComStar becomes completely business like even though it has no direct influence in the Union that is a significant change on thought patterns for the time. You could have a new philosophical view point emerge were "Merc Lords" (for lack of a better term) use their assets to make a profit. Of course this would have to include democratic input from the people they rule but I wonder how the government would look. A Council of "Merc Lords" works but how do they interact? Who can join and how? How does the civilian sector impact them? Relationship with business is another important factor.
A corporate republic is a theoretical form of government occasionally hypothesized in works of science fiction, though some historical nations such as medieval Florence might be said to have been governed as corporate republics. While retaining some semblance of republican government, a corporate republic would be run primarily like a business, involving a board of directors and executives. Utilities, including hospitals, schools, the army, and the police force, would be privatized. The social welfare function carried out by the state is instead carried out by corporations in the form of benefits to employees. Although corporate republics do not exist officially in the modern world, they are often used in works of fiction or political commentary as a warning of the perceived dangers of unbridled capitalism. In such works, they usually arise when a single, vastly powerful corporation deposes a weak government, over time or in a coup d'état.
Ice HellionRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2008, 06:06:31 AM »Of course this would have to include democratic input from the people they rule but I wonder how the government would look.
Why?
And a corporate government is likely to go for
- a cartel (something close to an alliance of States) with everyone working together or not
- a company where everything is made by private companies competing against each others
TakiroRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2008, 09:23:21 AM »Because the people would be the shareholder or stockholders of your corporate republic. Their franchise would empower your government and they would reap the dividends of the regime.
Ice HellionRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2008, 11:43:00 AM »Because the people would be the shareholder or stockholders of your corporate republic. Their franchise would empower your government and they would reap the dividends of the regime.
Really?
So let's assume that citizenship is only provided to the shareholders.
Do you receive shares at birth or when you retire? Can you buy them? Do you receive some for your good job? Is there a maximal number of shares per head?
From this, you can see that such a State might as well work as an oligarchy or as a near anarchy (if you have several alliances of small shareholders trying to get the best of the system and not managing to reach an agreement) or everything in between.
Also, shareholders are usually interested in the dividends and are more than likely to want the increase of the short term benefits (meaning no long term investments) or an increase in the number of "easy" contracts signed, decreasing the defences of the Union.
TakiroRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2008, 01:56:27 PM »Hmm, excellent question you've raised Ice. First off I would credit citizen-shareholders (need a better name their, and for the type of ideology we are trying to create) based on several factors. Being born in the nation, serving the nation (military or some other form), perhaps some other natural perks including family inheritance. For this you'd be allowed to vote with the weight of that decision carried by your level of citizen shareholding. Of course you could sell or buy except if your a foreigner/non-citizen. I would think they would be allowed to invest but not vote creating a second tier shareholder. You could probably purchase citizenship but unless you were born their could not vote. Perhaps a citizen could earn retirement this way by cashing in some or all of his or her shares.
Taxes would be a non concern as their is a natural investment aspect in the nation and all concerns being privatized would dramatically cut costs. Also thinking about it now, new mercenaries who want to buy their way in could. For enough money they could buy a vote in the Union/Federal Council as long as they met certain criteria, i.e. Star League/Terran heritage and Council approval of course.
Negatives would be those who didn't pull their weight, to put it in a harsh way. Homeless, mentally ill, or non conformists of any type could be left behind in such a predator state.
Ice HellionRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2008, 02:29:54 PM »First off I would credit citizen-shareholders (need a better name their, and for the type of ideology we are trying to create) based on several factors
You might be a bit too much on the nice side of the corporations here.
Being born in the nation, serving the nation (military or some other form), perhaps some other natural perks including family inheritance.
Nation? Serving the nation? This is a Corporation State.
It means people are born within a corporation and die there.
If you are nice, they might have some control of their corporations via shares (although I have some doubts) but if you are not, they are just tools.
Now, I do not think that corporations (especially those based on mercenary units) would try to do it all: creating consortium.
They would probably focus in their own area but there is another problem: how do they share the human pool available to them?
If no agreement is made between them, the parents corporation but more probably the ones in charge of education (and their allies) would get the best of this pool, leaving the others (including Mercenaries) with the "garbage".
Also how would you be able to create a new business?
Money? Everything belongs to the corporations and they can buy you or increase the prices to destroy your new company.
Through foreign corporations? Perhaps but this would create tensions and perhaps an internal war.
I hope I do not sound too hostile.
I am just rising questions that could help us fluff a little bit more this strange thing that is a corporate state.
That is all for now as there is a rugby test match on TV : France - Argentina (those who kind of humiliated France in the last World Cup).
TakiroRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2008, 03:52:33 PM »You might be a bit too much on the nice side of the corporations here.
Your thinking of a corporation as we think of those evil bastards today but we are talking about a Corporate Nation-State. This Business driven state strives to promote growth. When you produce life you are creating a new resource hence the franchise of the vote gained. Encouraging healthy development should be the goal of this state and serving the public welfare is another reason to gain franchise of the vote. Just that simple. You are promoting good business with this not giving stuff away. I can see those greedy individuals fostering short sighted cuts to these benefits producing gains now but creating a mess later.
Nation? Serving the nation? This is a Corporation State.
It means people are born within a corporation and die there.
If you are nice, they might have some control of their corporations via shares (although I have some doubts) but if you are not, they are just tools.
Now, I do not think that corporations (especially those based on mercenary units) would try to do it all: creating consortium.
They would probably focus in their own area but there is another problem: how do they share the human pool available to them?
If no agreement is made between them, the parents corporation but more probably the ones in charge of education (and their allies) would get the best of this pool, leaving the others (including Mercenaries) with the "garbage".
Also how would you be able to create a new business?
Money? Everything belongs to the corporations and they can buy you or increase the prices to destroy your new company.
Through foreign corporations? Perhaps but this would create tensions and perhaps an internal war.
I hope I do not sound too hostile.
I am just rising questions that could help us fluff a little bit more this strange thing that is a corporate state.
That is all for now as there is a rugby test match on TV : France - Argentina (those who kind of humiliated France in the last World Cup).
No, corporate equals evil is the general knee jerk reaction of nearly all persons nowadays. Popular liberal PCism has been played up the angle with great success and corporations sort of deserve it for some of their past actions. Even though you should never lump one thing in with another. I could rant on but please try to leave the Bad Reputation (5) that corporations have at the door with this thread. We are really throwing stuff up against the wall and seeing what could work.
I would say that each person is their own corporation in our new society here. Born with certain rights to conduct business (their life) in whatever way they chose. The Corporate Republic is just that. A democracy yes but with a business everywhere approach. Marriage could be looked at as a merger/partnership with childhood being a time when your parents have power of attorney till you reach 16 or 18 and can start making decisions for yourself. Education would again be privatized and somehow paid for by your parents.
Ice HellionRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2008, 11:53:38 AM »I would say that each person is their own corporation in our new society here. Born with certain rights to conduct business (their life) in whatever way they chose. The Corporate Republic is just that. A democracy yes but with a business everywhere approach.
I am not really on the Bad Reputation (5) side, I was just thinking out aloud.
But your benevolent approach might also work, so we will start from there (but do not forget that the basis of your State is Mercenaries, which are not necessarily nice guys).
TakiroRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2008, 12:56:52 PM »Look at your three founders. The Illician Lancers, the Wolf Dragoons, and the Northwind Highlanders. Hardly black hats.
Ice HellionRe: Blakist Assault on Terra Repulsed!
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2008, 05:25:22 AM »Not enough to disagree with...I need more.
Since when?
My point is that we are not talking about a new State growing from nothing but about a government being replaced by another: you would still have the local people, the local industries....
Although the main activity would probably be the mercenary job, you would have other things (agriculture, industry...) and also you could have a pool of people ready to enlist.
