Topic: Forging the Southern Cross (Read 21643 times)

Takiro · « **Reply #120 on:** February 07, 2013, 08:05:52 PM »

Expedition Numbers upon Terran Departure (2316)
Crunched the numbers and I think Iâ€™ve got a good breakdown of the Southern Cross. I also calculated the spacers needed for the fleet which are part of the overall breakdown. Heck the 1st Marines could help out big time there.

Australians and New Zealanders   31,127 (60.9%)
Brazilians and Latin Americans      12,586 (22%)
North Americans            6,000 (10.5%)
South Africans            4,016 (7%)
Papua New Guiena and Somoa    2,793 (4.9%)
The Forsaken             569 (less than 1%)
   Total            57,091

90 Crew for each Aquila (80)      7,200 (12.6%)

The Long Journey (2316-2320)
For four years the Southern Cross Expedition wanders the InnerSphere in search of a new home. Iâ€™m thinking they travel spinward because that is where the Southern Cross is located although Iâ€™m making a dangerous assumption there. Only two

Gacrux â€“ Colonized before 2299 when the Federation of Skye was established this is possibly the closest and first stopover of the Expedition. It is a harsh mineral rich world that might not hold the promise Cross and his gang are looking for. Plus there is the citizenry already on world? Are they welcoming? Possibly? Controlling commercial interests may not be hence they leave.

Acrux â€“Human settlement is established during the Star League after 2571 by the Free Worlds League as it lies in the Bolan Thumb. While being completely uninhabited at this time and quite fertile in the future as it is mentioned as a major agricultural world Iâ€™m thinking there is some major obstacle that canâ€™t be overcome by the Southern Cross. Major and possibly advanced terraforming might have taken place before it became a breadbasket. Again the group decides to move on.

Epsilon Crucis (aka Intrometida ) â€“ located 228 light years from Earth according to wikipedia. While not on the BattleTech map as far as I know Iâ€™m going to making the assumption it and the other unmapped stars of the Crux are located Spinward of Terra. Really donâ€™t have a solid BattleTech location.

Where are the other two stars of the Southern Cross? Becrux (aka Mimosa) and Delta Crucis? Are these two systems and Epsilon Crucis habitable?

masterarminas · « **Reply #121 on:** February 07, 2013, 08:29:58 PM »

Alpha Crucis (Acrux) is approximately 321 light-years from Earth is a B0 IV (sub-giant) and B1V (main sequence) binary systems.

Beta Crucis (Mimosa) is approximately 280 light-years from Earth and is a B0 III giant star.

Gamma Crucis (Gacrux) is 88.6 light years from Earth and is a an M3 III giant star.

Delta Crucis is approximately 345 light-years from Earth and is a B2 IV sub-giant star.

Epsilon Crucis (Intrometida) is approximately 228 light-years from Earth and is a K3 III giant star.

All would be within the Inner Sphere. A B2 IV? Probably not going to have a habitable planet. That K3 III might, but it too would lay in the Inner Sphere if it does.

EDIT: I like the populaton numbers for the expedition, Takiro. Question: how large is the 1st Marine Division? How many people can an Aquila carry? Looks like around 800 each, including crew. If the 1st Marines are 8,000 strong, that is 10 more ships (7,100 plus 900 crew). If they are 12,000 strong, that is 15 more ships (10,650 plus 1,350 crew). I can't see McKenna spending more than that along . . . and I am leaning towards the first number (7,100 Marines plus 900 crew).

Let me run some numbers.

MA

masterarminas · « **Reply #122 on:** February 07, 2013, 09:05:09 PM »

Looking at modern organization, a Marine Expeditionary Unit seems to be the basic building block.

It consists of a reinforced infantry battalion, with aviation (helicopter assets), a battalion-sized logistic element, and a command element.

Troop strength is approximately 2,200 and is usually commanded by a full Colonel.

The ground element contains an infantry battalion reinforced with an artillery battery (with 6 towed 155mm howizters), an amphibious assault vehicle platoon (of 15 vehicles), a combat engineer platoon, a light armored recon company (around 14 light tanks), a tank platoon (4 MBTs), a recon platoon, and an anti-tank platoon (with Humvee mounted TOW launchers). The recon platoon includes Force Recon Special Forces. Total strength of around 1,100 troops.

The aviation element typically has 4-6 attack helicopters, 3 utility helicopters, 12 medium lift assault helicopters, 4 heavy lift assault helicopters, 6 AV-8B Harrier jets, and 2 KC-130 refueling aircraft, plus technicitions, ground teams, ordnance specilists, flight controllers, etc., etc., etc. with a total strength of around 600.

The logistics command element has all of the specialists and equipment necessary for the MEU to support itself and sustain operations for 30 days in combat. It includes supply, maintenance, military police, EOD, fuel transports, internal comm, medical and dental, etc. With about 300 personnel.

The Command Element consists of about 200 Marines and includes the commanding officer and his staff, plus naval fire support teams, recon teams, surveillance, long-range comm, SIGINT, electronic warfare, intelligence/counterintelligence, and public affairs personnel.

Now, for the Southern Cross, we could have three or four of these Marine Expedition Units comprising the 1st Marine Division (6,600-8,800 personnel, plus command and support (430-500, getting us to the 7,100 lower number limit or an upper limit of 9,230 for 13 ships) . . .

OR we might take a look at a modern Marine Expeditionary Brigade.

An MEB is commanded by a Major General (who in the Army commands an entire division) and is built around a reinforced infantry regiment, an entire Marine Air Group (40 Harriers and 24 Hornets, plus choppers), and supporting elements with somewhere around 14,500 officers and men. On the down-side, that would require 21 ships to transport (for a total of 101) with another 1,800 crewmen, which is a bit large.

Personally, I would lean towards having three (or perhaps even FOUR) MEU size units organized into the 1st Marine Division. Three would take 10 ships, having a fourth would add another 3 (total of 90-93 Aquila).

Of course, we have to translate everything into BattleTech terms, which I am working on.

MA

Takiro · « **Reply #123 on:** February 07, 2013, 09:14:24 PM »

Well one of the things I'm doing is trying to come up with the history and composition of the 1st Marine Division which I forsee as the main body of the Southern Cross Military, I'll have to look back and see what we have for that. I figure until the arrival of the SLDF they concentrate on interception and interdiction of bandit forces in space. I also see there armored contingent as a rapid response force possibly consisting entirely of hovertanks to overwhelm a bandit LZ. They are primarily an infantry unit and boarding actions supported by fighters is what I figure will be there specialty. As such developing aerospace engineering and marine space suits maybe a higher priority then tanks for the Southern Cross. This there front line mobile force after all which is supported by Militias but that is for the future. Back to the Expedition.

The modern day 1st is a 19,000 soldier force. The 6,000 soldier force (division) I got from the Periphery Sourcebook and various Terran Alliance Paracavalry Divisions. I suppose the smaller number is to promote interstellar mobility and made possible with future tech. This gets me into the developed history of the 1st Marine Division from 2012 to 2316.
   - WAAF service (Soviet Civil War and ACPS blockade of Japan 2023)
   - Outer Reaches Rebellion (2234-2237), only the Colonial Marines were equipped for such operations, what of the 1st?
   - American colonies which were in large part close to Terra would not revolt I think
   - After the 2238 withdraw was the unit forced to watch some die colonies die?
   - The Alliance Collapse in 2314, did they participate in these events?
   - Feared their fanatical devotion to the United States

The 6,000 division number while small was more desirable for me cause it keep the American contribution small although significant. I still have to develop a composition. Could use help. I wouldn't change that number or you have to recalculate the numbers for other groups cause again the people of the Southern Cross should disproportional outnumber the 1st.

Not sure how many people an Aquila can carry but since we have four years to get where we are going we don't have to transport everyone or everything at once I figure. Trips back and forth within reason can be made from previous stopovers I figure.

And don't forget Aquilas aren't the only ships available. Want to quote from FM Terran Republic which takes directly from the Periphery and Star League Sourcebooks for an early navy that might accompany the Southern Cross.

Quote

In response to these actions General Armando Luchesi and Admiral Leondard Julliard ordered their command, the 2nd Interstellar Strategic Combined Assault Force (INTERSTRATCAF), deployed to Freedom to put down the insurrection. Three squadrons of jump capable strike cruisers, assault carriers, and attack transports already on maneuvers near Saturn immediately got underway.

That refers to the start of the Outer Reaches Rebellion in 2234-5 nearly eighty (80) years prior to the departure of the Southern Cross (2316). Might we see these relics now outmatched by McKenna's first true warships dispatched with the 1st Marine Division?

masterarminas · « **Reply #124 on:** February 07, 2013, 09:32:10 PM »

We could indeed, Takiro. Looking at around 6,000 officers and men, a division comprised of three MEU and a small division HQ might fit:

Each MEU would have a 800-man strong Marine Rifle Battalion at its core (756 plus HQ staff; three companies of three platoons, each with three 28-man squads or four 21-man squads (?)), with a Heavy Tank Platoon (4 tanks), a reinforced light hover recon company (16 tanks), a hover anti-tank platoon (4 vehicles), a combat engineer platoon (with 4 vehicles), an artillery battery (with six self-propelled howitzers and six FDC/ammo haulers), four platoons of hover transport vehicles (16, each of which can transport a squad), a recon platoon with fast hover transports integral), a special operations squad, two platoons of attack VTOLs ( 8 ), four platoons of transport VTOLs (16), and four air lances of conventional aircraft ( 8 ). Plus trucks and jeeps and all the support elements.

Three of these and a command element would give the Southern Cross 2,400 infantry, 12 heavy tanks, 48 light light hover tanks, 12 hover anti-tank vehicles, 12 CEVs, 48 hover transports, 12 hover recon vehicles with infantry, a entire recon company, a special forces platoon, 24 attack VTOLs, 48 transport VTOLs, and 24 conventional fighters.

Seems like a pretty decent force that would come up around 6,000 or so with logistics elements and techs.

Perhaps have three of those attack transports mentioned above, each designed to carry one component of the division, which would really cut down on the additional ships needed. Plus one escort/command ship that lifts the division HQ.

MA

Takiro · « **Reply #125 on:** February 07, 2013, 09:50:09 PM »

That sounds pretty good MA given the BattleTech Infantry Regiment is about 800 soldiers each. If you look at the current breakdown of the 1st Marine Division on wikipedia you have four regiments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Marine_Division_%28United_States%29

Again over time the size of these units diminished given operating parameters and doctrinal changes. Plus I'm thinking support staff may come entirely from the Southern Cross so we need not any other people. Might be an effective check on the force as well.

Just checked TRO2800 and our first true jumpship wasn't introduced till 2420 although and I have to double check this the first true warship the Dreadnought has appeared six years prior to the start of the Expedition. Dropships likewise are far off in developmental terms. Aerospace Fighters are yet to be perfected as well. So we got a bunch of primitive stuff.

muttley · « **Reply #126 on:** February 07, 2013, 10:37:38 PM »

So have we moved away from the Australian pattern?

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #127 on:** February 07, 2013, 10:43:06 PM »

Assuming your using Aquillas as transport

Each ship has 36,114 cargo space (slit into two equal bays of 18,057 tons) they already carry 30 2nd Class passenger quarters I'd assume as for techs for the 8 Small craft

Remembering you have to carry DropShips aboard the ship even with 80 Aquillas you're going to struggle with numbers I think

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #128 on:** February 07, 2013, 10:48:23 PM »

Can I make a suggestion also as this thread is rapidly spinning out of control...

Someone PM Knightmare or Mechrat and have a sub section of the forum set up for this thread

we split it up into sections

1) General Discussion
2) Regional - Colonized Planets/Systems
3) Factions - Units/Personalities/Factions
4) Timeline

We coordinate everything through General Discussion where we decide what goes in and what doesn't then filter it through the other sub sections?

Blacknova · « **Reply #129 on:** February 07, 2013, 10:50:47 PM »

If its Australian flavoured, why go with US Marine org. Perhaps throw back to the WWI Australian formations for inspiration.

Takiro · « **Reply #130 on:** February 08, 2013, 06:16:24 AM »

Quote from: muttley on February 07, 2013, 10:37:38 PM

So have we moved away from the Australian pattern?

ABSOLUTELY NOT! The Land from Down Under has the leader and most people (more than 50%) in the Expedition. It is of paramount importance to me to keep that and what you guys have contributed.

Quote from: Blacknova on February 07, 2013, 10:50:47 PM

If its Australian flavoured, why go with US Marine org. Perhaps throw back to the WWI Australian formations for inspiration.

The 1st Marine Division and the other minority populations are all Southern Cross flavored. Google their insignias and histories. Link below;

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Southern_cross_appearing_on_a_number_of_flags.PNG&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Southern_cross_appearing_on_a_number_of_flags.PNG&h=692&w=1110&sz=61&tbnid=jP0tLHgTDcnVCM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=144&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsouthern%2Bcross%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=southern+cross&usg=__wFZVYEyfVRSiZ_WvDuzs58IwHVA=&docid=73HqIkUmVf0UiM&sa=X&ei=CN4UUcX-NOqy0QGjh4DIDA&ved=0CIsBEP4dMA8

Every single faction has the Southern Cross in common. That is why I chose them in collabration with Master Arminas.

Takiro · « **Reply #131 on:** February 08, 2013, 06:20:43 AM »

Quote from: Dragon Cat on February 07, 2013, 10:43:06 PM

Assuming your using Aquillas as transport

Each ship has 36,114 cargo space (slit into two equal bays of 18,057 tons) they already carry 30 2nd Class passenger quarters I'd assume as for techs for the 8 Small craft

Remembering you have to carry DropShips aboard the ship even with 80 Aquillas you're going to struggle with numbers I think

We have four years to get where we are going we don't have to transport everyone or everything at once I figure. MULTIPLE TRIPS. Trips back and forth within reason can be made from previous stopovers I figure enhancing what we can carry greatly.

masterarminas · « **Reply #132 on:** February 08, 2013, 04:36:44 PM »

New maps, building off of Blacknova's 3025 PDF. The first one is a close in view of the Congress of the Southern Cross and systems that we have already named/established, plus as-yet unnamed ones. It also shows a little detail of the Southern Cross Corridor; the systems through which the Star League DRUM network were positioned, which are mostly uninhabitated, but serve as waypoints. By 2800, some of those waypoints might have been colonized. Whether or not they survive the fall of the Star League is another story.

The second map is a more zoomed out view that ties the CSC to the Inner Sphere. The whole of the Corridor is mapped, along with the Rim Spur Amaris pioneered to establish contact and the Canopian Loop which Rim and Magistracy merchants traveled in an effort to avoid Star League tariffs. (The Canopian Loop was also one of the routes that the Secret Army used to assault the SLDF in the Periphery Uprising.)

Let me know what you think.

EDIT: I have twenty-three waypoint systems. Should they be one or two jumps apart? One jump means 23 weeks to transit New St. Andrews to Gateway (with standard jumpship, no LFB), or just under six months. Two means 46 weeks . . . eleven and a half months.

MA

Takiro · « **Reply #133 on:** February 08, 2013, 08:02:25 PM »

I can't really see them from my phone and i won't get home for another day or two.

I'd like to concentrate on the early history right now before we get to the League. I'd love to plot a course through the Southern Cross and out here to the Periphery. It would help to know why they settle in this new Crux or where they did and all.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #134 on:** February 09, 2013, 02:49:54 PM »

So using primitive JumpShips it would have taken them 46 weeks to go beyond the Inner Sphere (15 LY a jump)

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Author Topic: Forging the Southern Cross (Read 21643 times)

Takiro

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masterarminas

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masterarminas

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Takiro

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masterarminas

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Takiro

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muttley

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Dragon Cat

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Dragon Cat

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Blacknova

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Takiro

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Takiro

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masterarminas

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Takiro

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Dragon Cat

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