Takiro - Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « on: November 12, 2006, 11:15:10 AM »Ok this always seems to be a big topic on any BattleTech site. What if Kerensky didn't leave. He decides to stay with the Terran Hegemony. Discuss.
Takiro Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #1 on: November 12, 2006, 11:54:32 AM »Okay so let it begin in February 2784. After laughing off the possiblity of an Exodus he decides to stay and restore the Hegemony working for an eventual return of the Star League. Kerensky is nominated by the Hegemony Council (the Terran High Council) and overwhelmingly elected the next Director-General of the Terran Hegemony by the overjoyed populace.
Recognizing that the SL has ended more House personnel leave the SLDF as it becomes a renewed Hegemony Armed Forces (HAF).
Takiro Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #2 on: November 12, 2006, 12:16:54 PM »Okay I'm saying Kerensky retains the Star League Navy in its entirety. All 402 warships plus a few that can now be repaired since the SLDF isn't fleeing the InnerSphere. So the HAF Navy compares very favorably to the Great Houses which field only a few more ships say a little over 500.
Ground forces are another story however. Researching...
Calderon Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #3 on: November 13, 2006, 06:35:16 PM »If that happened your Terran Repbulic wouldn't be the way you imagined.
Takiro Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #4 on: November 13, 2006, 09:19:07 PM »You are certainly correct Calderon. My Terran Republic still has Kerensky leaving with the SLDF at about the same strength it was. Perhaps a few personnel changes but that is it. MWGalaxy started a discussion of this little eventuality over on the CBT Forums. Now this isn't the first time it has come up. Over on CBT or Heavy Metal Pro Forums but I wanted to give some of my thoughts and hear your opinions on this alternate. I apologize for being side tracked. It has kept me from completing a more detailed look at the breakdown of the SLDF ground forces.
Without specifics I think it would go like this. Royal units being stocked with Terran personnel only stay with Kerensky's Hegemony. As do the former Non-Exdous forces that stayed with ComStar in canon. The rest are a wash. Split 6 major ways (I think Terra gets a cut as well as the 5 Great Houses). Maybe some personnel go to the Periphery. Now some major story threads.
1. Does a or multiple SL unit refuse to leave its InnerSphere post, more specifically Eridani Light Horse? What might happen?
2. The Hegemony still faces resource extinction like my Terran Republic. So do they also garrison the remains of the RWR and start extracted raw materials needed for production.
3. Would there be an alliance between the TH and friendly realms?
4. Is Kerensky an isolationist or a peacemaker? Does he wall of Terra or get involved actively in diplomacy and or peacekeeping?
5. Does Kenyon Marik and the Draconis Combine still test the Hegemony's patience with invasions? The renewed HAF is much more formidable than TRAS. Or is Terra neutral.
6. What of Blake and ComStar?
7. Is Nicky next in line? Is he mad? Or since he never got Brain Fever on the Pentagon Worlds just a normal Kerensky?
Calderon Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #5 on: November 13, 2006, 11:53:57 PM »What do you think the odds of him still being as upset with houses to causing him to leave will turn into him deciding to just conquer the houses and try instate marshall law in the area he controls.
Knightmare Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #6 on: November 17, 2006, 12:20:03 AM »Quote from: Takiro on November 13, 2006, 09:19:07 PM
You are certainly correct Calderon. My Terran Republic still has Kerensky leaving with the SLDF at about the same strength it was. Perhaps a few personnel changes but that is it. MWGalaxy started a discussion of this little eventuality over on the CBT Forums. Now this isn't the first time it has come up. Over on CBT or Heavy Metal Pro Forums but I wanted to give some of my thoughts and hear your opinions on this alternate. I apologize for being side tracked. It has kept me from completing a more detailed look at the breadown of the SLDF ground forces.
Without specifics I think it would go like this. Royal units being stocked with Terran personnel only stay with Kerensky's Hegemony. As do the former Non-Exdous forces that stayed with ComStar in canon. The rest are a wash. Split 6 major ways (I think Terra gets a cut as well as the 5 Great Houses). Maybe some personnel go to the Periphery. Now some major story threads.
1. Does a or multiple SL unit refuse to leave its InnerSphere post, more specifically Eridani Light Horse? What might happen?
2. The Hegemony still faces resource extinction like my Terran Republic. So do they also garrison the remains of the RWR and start extracted raw materials needed for production.
3. Would there be an alliance between the TH and friendly realms?
4. Is Kerensky an isolationist or a peacemaker? Does he wall of Terra or get involved actively in diplomacy and or peacekeeping?
5. Does Kenyon Marik and the Draconis Combien still test the Hegemony's patience with invasions? The renewed HAF is much more formidable than TRAS. Or is Terra neutral.
6. What of Blake and ComStar?
7. Is Nicky next in line? Is he mad? Or since he never got Brain Fever on the Pentagon Worlds just a normal Kerensky?
In order...
1. Depending on Kerensky's rant after deciding to remain in the Sphere, you could see quiet a large percentage of the remaining SLDF joining renewed HAF.
2. Possibly, but given Kerensky's censure of the Archon for their "occupation" of soon-to-be ex-Republican worlds. You're probably more likely to see Kerensky rebuild the Periphery nation (like after the Reunification War) while conducting fair trade to bolster his nation's sagging resources. He'll be more concerned with rebuilding and repairing the Terran state's infrastructure to worry about a forced occupation.
3. The Federated Suns would certainly hold hands with Kerensky. The DC and the FWL would most certainly be hostile. Realms like the CC and the LC would probably ride the fence. Given Kerensky's censure the LC could be persuaded to renew its old relationship with the Hegemony if they were handed some technology or trade concessions.
4. Hardcore Peacemaker. This man shuttled around the Inner Sphere for two years before deciding on the Exodus. Cripes he took fleeing the Inner Sphere as a means to prevent war. And I don't think he would even have the choice of walling off the Hegemony. In the realm's devastated state, only positive relationships with those surrounding its borders will ensure its continued survival. If Kerensky did stick around, you would probably see much of the same "shuttle diplomacy" he worked before the Exodus, but in place of a renewed Star League, it would be technology, trade, joint-ownership, you-name-it concessions, treaties, or agreements.
5. Tricky. Everything depends on the two-decades leading to the (canon) Succession Wars. With the hero of the League still around and the Inner Sphere-wide cult of personality he enjoys, it's all a matter of what he does in the interim. A man like Kerensky could theoretically prevent a conflict on the scale of the First Succession War, but only if he makes the right moves (politically, economically, and so on) For Terra's sake, and given its weakened state, I think Kerensky would again try to enhance the image of the Hegemony as a neutral brokerage, much like Deborah Cameron or Ian Cameron. Not only would it divert some of the prying eyes away from the border, but it really is the only realistic stance they can take with the nation in its post-Coup state. And I highly doubt Terra itself would be neutral. The world only became a prize in the first place because its original heir and owner, the Camerons and the Hegemony, no longer existed. Kerensky replaces the Cameron name, and the Hegemony never goes defunct, well then the world loses the same draw that made it such an important target in the canon fiction. I can also see Kerensky diverting much of the Director-General's domestic power back into the Hegemony Presidency. He may have been an effective administrator during his tenure with the SLDF, but as Director-General he'll be traveling all over the Inner Sphere. (Perhaps longer than 2 years) So it would be very likely that the actually day-to-day running of the Hegemony along with the efforts to rebuild and the national defense would be left in the hands of the President and High Council. There would simply be no way for the man to juggle it all effectively and still pursue his an international agenda.
6. I also hate to say this, but ComStar and Blake would very much become what the organization is in the Dark Age timeline: A secular company devoted to the upkeep of interstellar communications. Gents like Toyoma probably wouldn't even make it into the corporation, and Blake wouldn't be responsible for anything beyond the HPG network. (No Operation Silver Shield, not Neutral Terra, and so on)
7. Again, depends on Alexandr's reign and how well Nicky does in the interim. If it didn't work for poor Konrad McKenna, it may not work for Nicky. My guess is that since Nicky will never be forced into a position dictating the creation of a new society, or faced with the horrors of the Exodus Civil Wars, he'll probably stay within the military, easily rising to high rank, perhaps even head of the HAF. (That's almost a give in) Unless of course, somewhere along the way he manages to screw up. (But we're talking a perfect world right?
)
My pence
Takiro Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #7 on: November 18, 2006, 09:21:39 PM »Good stuff Knightmare. I would disagree with you on relations with the LC. New Archon Jennifer Steiner would desperately try to get back in the good graces of Kerensky looking to atone for the sins of her predecessor.
Now in addition to what the Terran Republic got (ComStar forces in canon I would think they would all stay on) which is 80 some BattleMech regiments add this.
Terran Star League units that departed on the Exodus
11th Royal BattleMech Division (The Orion Division)
26th Royal BattleMech Division (The Graham Division)
39th Royal BattleMech Division (The Denbola Division)
135th Royal BattleMech Division (The Van Diemen Division)
146th Royal BattleMech Division (The George S. Patton Division)
150th Royal BattleMech Division (The Rigil Kentaurus Division)
299th Royal BattleMech Division (The Protector Division)
309th Royal BattleMech Division (The Black Charger Division)
316th Royal BattleMech Division (The Rio Grande Division)
328th Royal BattleMech Division (The Lion-Hearted Division)
331st Royal BattleMech Division (The North American Division)
341st Royal BattleMech Division (The Black Prince Division)
349th Royal BattleMech Division (The King Henry Division)
1st Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
13th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
17th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
27th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
31st Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
34th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
50th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
65th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
120th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
131st Royal Mechanized Infantry Division (The Los Angeles Division)
132nd Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
157th Royal Mechanized Division
159th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division (The Athena Division)
169th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
183rd Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
226th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division (The Wild Ones From Yorii)
242nd Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
255th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division
279th Royal Mechanized Infantry Division (The Chara Cossacks)
44th Royal Infantry Division
50th Royal Infantry Division (The Flame Keepers of Greece)
61st Royal Jump Infantry Division
80th Royal Jump Infantry Division
82nd Royal Jump Infantry Division (The All Americans)
106th Royal Jump Infantry Division
29th Royal Dragoon Regiment
74th Royal Dragoon Regiment (The Dogs of Dogarish)
121st Royal Dragoon Regiment
367th Royal Dragoon Regiment
405th Royal Dragoon Regiment
135th Royal Striker Regiment
741st Royal Striker Regiment
43rd Royal Light Horse Regiment (The Steeds of Nicholas)
55th Royal Light Horse Regiment (member of 4th RCT)
59th Royal Light Horse Regiment
90th Royal Light Horse Regiment
902nd Royal Hussar Regiment
22nd Royal CAAN Marine Regiment
31st Royal CAAN Marine Regiment
35th Royal CAAN Marine Regiment
587th Royal Artillery Regiment
188th Royal Independent Aero Wing
Which gives us.
13 Royal BattleMech Divisions (78 BattleMech Regiments)
19 Royal Mechanized Infantry Divisions (57 BattleMech Regiments)
2 Royal Infantry Divisions (6 BattleMech Regiments)
4 Royal Jump Infantry Divisions (12 BattleMech Regiments)
15 Independent BattleMech Regiments
2 Special Units (587th Royal Artillery Regiment, 188th Royal Independent Aero Wing)
That gives us a total number of 168 BattleMech Regiments to add to the 80 plus of ComStar canon.
Total so far 250 BattleMech Regiments for the new HAF!
Now to divide the rest of the SLDF!
Takiro Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #8 on: November 19, 2006, 12:29:04 PM »Now in addition for the rest of the SLDF
Non-Royal (not Terran) Star League units that departed on the Exodus (in canon)
15th BattleMech Division (The Bryant Division)
81st BattleMech Division (The Devils of Devil's Rock)
89th BattleMech Division (The Cyclops Division)
116th BattleMech Division (The Gargantua Division)
131st BattleMech Division (The Hercules Division)
149th BattleMech Division (The Erwin Rommel Division)
154th BattleMech Division (The Small World Division)
159th BattleMech Division (The Wellington Division) Less 1008th Heavy Assault Regiment
164th BattleMech Division (The Hannibal Division)
168th BattleMech Division (The Czar Peter Division)
173rd BattlMech Division (The New Earth Division)
189th BattleMech Division (The Marshal Ney Division)
218th BattleMech Division (The Quentin Division)
229th BattleMech Division (The Chara Division)
250th BattleMech Division (The Stalingrad Division)
271st BattleMech Division (The Outreach Division)
275th BattleMech Division (The Altair Division) Less 104th Striker Regiment
308th BattleMech Division (The Punjab Pass Division)
315th BattleMech Division (The Yorii Division)
382nd BattleMech Division (The Westmoreland Division)
9th Mechanized Infantry Division (The Pride of Puget Sound)
16th Mechanized Infantry Division
24th Mechanized Infantry Division
26th Mechanized Infantry Division
41st Mechanized Infantry Division
46th Mechanized Infantry Division
49th Mechanized Infantry Division (The Colony Commanders)
67th Mechanized Infantry Division (The Indiana Division)
68th Mechanized Infantry Division
95th Mechanized Infantry Division
111th Mechanized Infantry Division
129th Mechanized Infantry Division
142nd Mechanized Infantry Division
146th Mechanized Infantry Division
147th Mechanized Infantry Division
164th Mechanized Infantry Division
172nd Mechanized Infantry Division
174th Mechanized Infantry Division
191st Mechanized Infantry Division (The Upper Silesian Division)
192nd Mechanized Infantry Division
194th Mechanized Infantry Division
196th Mechanized Infantry Division
212nd Mechanized Infantry Division
237th Mechanized Infantry Division
257th Mechanized Infantry Division
294th Mechanized Infantry Division
300th Mechanized Infantry Division (The Martians)
11th Infantry Division
14th Infantry Division
35th Infantry Division
49th Infantry Division
53rd Infantry Division
68th Infantry Division (The Thai Militia)
72nd Infantry Division
1st Jump Infantry Division (The Hellraisers from Heaven)
12th Jump Infantry Division
17th Jump Infantry Division (The Golden Talon)
30th Jump Infantry Division (Murphrid Lightning)
59th Jump Infantry Division (The Kings Own Jump Troops)
60th Jump Infantry Division
65th Jump Infantry Division (The Tornadoes)
86th Jump Infantry Division
101st Jump Infantry Division (The Screaming Eagles)
120th Jump Infantry Division less 4674th Striker Regiment
145th Jump Infantry Division (The Pride of Berlin)
159th Jump Infantry Division
185th Jump Infantry Division
206th Jump Infantry Division (Death From Above)
208th Jump Infantry Division
210th Jump Infantry Division
458th Battle Regiment
16th Dragoon Regiment
20th Dragoon Regiment
102nd Dragoon Regiment
108th Dragoon Regiment
111th Dragoon Regiment (member of 4th RCT)
129th Dragoon Regiment
131st Dragoon Regiment
138th Dragoon Regiment (member of 1st RCT)
146th Dragoon Regiment
200th Dragoon Regiment
261st Dragoon Regiment
300th Dragoon Regiment
315th Dragoon Regiment
345th Dragoon Regiment
114th Heavy Assault Regiment (The Titans of Tymons)
189th Heavy Assault Regiment
287th Heavy Assault Regiment
309th Heavy Assault Regiment
312th Heavy Assault Regiment
38th Hussar Regiment
48th Hussar Regiment
128th Hussar Regiment
152nd Hussar Regiment
218th Hussar Regiment
300th Hussar Regiment
13th Light Horse Regiment
35th Light Horse Regiment
38th Light Horse Regiment
149th Light Horse Regiment
221st Light Horse Regiment
279th Light Horse Division
1003rd Light Horse Regiment (member of 5th RCT)
201st Striker Regiment
208th Striker Regiment
512th Striker Regiment
105th Wheeled Armor Regiment
658th Marine Infantry Regiment
1007th Jump Infantry Regiment
9873rd Mechanized Infantry Regiment
9999th Mechanized Infantry Regiment
687th Independent Aero Wing
1002nd Independent Aero Wing
2369th Independent Aero Wing
2525th Independent Aero Wing
3058th Independent Aero Wing
Which gives us.
20 Battlemech Divisions (– 2 = 118 ‘Mech Regiments)
27 Mechanized Infantry Divisions (81 ‘Mech Regiments)
7 Infantry Divisions (21 ‘Mech Regiments)
16 Jump Infantry Division (- 1 = 47 ‘Mech Regiments)
36 Independent BattleMech Regiments
10 Special Units (105th Wheeled Armor Regiment, 658th Marine Infantry Regiment, 1007th Jump Infantry Regiment, 9873rd Mechanized Infantry Regiment, 9999th Mechanized Infantry Regiment, 687th Independent Aero Wing, 1002nd Independent Aero Wing, 2369th Independent Aero Wing, 2525th Independent Aero Wing, 3058th Independent Aero Wing)
Now that gives us a total number of 303 BattleMech Regiments to divide among the Great Houses.
Takiro Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #9 on: November 19, 2006, 03:45:35 PM »Quote from: Takiro on November 19, 2006, 12:29:04 PM
Now that gives us a total number of 303 BattleMech Regiments to divide among the Great Houses.
So do we divide it by 6 (Terrans included) = 50 regiments for each House give the last three to the Terrans as well
That would be about 300 Mech Regiments for the Terrans and 200 Mech Regiments (rough average) for the 5 Great House
Option two is to divide by 5 (Terrans aren't a big factor) = 60 regiments for each House give the last three to the Terrans as well
That would be about 250 Mech Regiments plus for the Terrans and 210 Mech Regiments (rough average) for the 5 Great House
Knightmare Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #10 on: November 19, 2006, 10:11:37 PM »Terra would be a huge factor.
Psychologically speaking, we know these men and women literally worshipped Kerensky. How do we know this? Well for one, they followed their General, regardless of nationality, into the unknown, no questions asked. If Kerensky did stay behind with the express purpose of rebuilding the Hegemony from the predations of the other Great Houses, a.k.a. a mission of preservation and peace then a good majority of the SLDF would probably remain loyal. Especially if you consider that before the SLDF left the Inner Sphere many of these soldiers brought their families along, meaning, relocation to the Terran state would not be much of an issue. If these people were willing to leave their homes, again nationality is not much of an issue. Remember also, that the SLDF really attempted to foster loyalty to the SLDF and the League first, their old homes second. With the death of the League the last remaining embodiment of its principles resided in its General in the minds of some 80% of the SLDF. In the short term I doubt there would be desertion as long as the General continued to embody those same principles. However, just as with the Prinz Eugen incident, after some time and given change, some issues could arise.
Takiro Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #11 on: November 20, 2006, 06:48:47 PM »Well Kerensky's Hegemony would be in a much better starting position than my poor New Republic.
Knightmare Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #12 on: November 22, 2006, 03:56:20 PM »Oh yeah...Agruably it could well be the most powerful state in the Inner Sphere. Not only in sheer numbers, but also technologically. Too bad his worlds would be a bloody mess, but with those numbers he'd have all the time in the world to repair and rebuild them, so long as he didn't mess anything up.
Takiro Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #13 on: November 22, 2006, 05:46:02 PM »Kerensky could have added to his state easily. I'm not just talking about the Rim Worlds Repbulic either. The only problem is that Terra is right in the center of everything so it is difficult to attack somebody with overwhelming force. You open yourself up to four other formidable opponents.
Knightmare Re: Kerensky Remains: No Exodus « Reply #14 on: November 24, 2006, 12:20:16 PM »Though he would be loath to do any type of attacking. To do so would risk not only the precarious nature of the Hegemony itself, but the loyalty of the remaining SLDF. Besides, any warmongering on his part would be extremely damaging. Not only to the self image he created in the minds of the people of the Inner Sphere and SLDF, but politically as well. The other leaders of the Hegemony would want peace and time to rebuild their shattered homes, not another war. To prevent a Civil War, Kerensky would have to avoid military action. Although in truth, given what we know about the man, he would commence war only as a last resort and reluctantly.
