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Author Topic: No Dragoons Compromise  (Read 31122 times)

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drakensis

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No Dragoons Compromise
« on: September 27, 2018, 11:29:48 PM »

In 3000 Khan Nadia Winson of Clan Ghost Bear proposed to the Grand Council that the Clans should return to the Inner Sphere. The motion was opposed by Khan Kerlin Ward of Clan Wolf, who proposed as a compromise that a scout force be sent to the Inner Sphere to determine what they would face if they returned in force. After a great deal of debate, the motion was voted on and (inevitably) a Trial of Refusal was fought. The outcome was that the Clans would indeed return to the Inner Sphere. The Crusader faction had won.

The question of how they would return was the next to be decided. A leader was needed and Nadia Winson's prestige in securing the vote made her selection as ilKhan a simple choice. After discussing the issue with a number of her allies, she proposed a conservative and inclusive plan in keeping with the Ghost Bear's usual caution: all seventeen Clans were to prepare a force of around five galaxies divided between frontline and garrison forces in whatever proportion they found preferable. Each Clan must contribute at least five small warships and one large warship as escorts and to carry a reserve of supplies. If a Clan's forces made this difficult they were welcome to activate cached warships and each clan was to provide a pool of supplies and cached equipment into a general pool the ilKhan could disburse in order to support a Clan that had difficulty participating.

While several stronger clans felt this was unnecessarily generous, this tithe wasn't very heavy and the votes of the smaller Clans were valued even if their fighting power wasn't. The only serious dissent came from a hard core of Wardens, primarily the Clans Kerlin Ward was able to strongarm: his own Wolves, the Coyotes and the Goliath Scorpions. These three Clans declared they would not invade, which was accepted as long as they paid the same tithe and agreed not to prey upon the homeworld enclaves of the fourteen invading Clans. All three Clans were noted to be increasing their secondline forces, which they explained as needed to deal with an expected upswing in banditry while the other Clan's best warriors were away. They also allowed some of these units, staffed with their Crusader minority, to be claimed by the invaders - although most of these Crusaders were disappointed to learn they were only going to be guarding supply lines or even filling out homeworld garrisons.

After years of preparation the invasion force set out - seventy galaxies of warriors and eighty-four warships, arguably the largest single military force deployed by any part of humanity since the First Succession War. In 3005 they reached the Inner Sphere and Kerensky's heirs were unleashed upon the Inner Sphere with devastating effect. Despite valiant efforts, the Draconis Combine and Lyran Commonwealth were almost entirely unable to to hold back the Clans, even with covert aid from an increasingly worried ComStar. Coordinator Takashi Kurita died fighting a stubborn and glorious defence of Luthien, inspiring thousands of Combine samurai to fight to the bitter end and millions of humbler Combine citizens to resist in their own ways. Archon Katrina Steiner bled the Clans over and over in scores of brilliant ambushes that ground away their fine edge and the expense of almost entirely destroying the LCAF. After two years of war, the Clans had almost reached Terra, and despite their losses they remained a powerful force. With their supplies depleted, they paused briefly to regroup and await convoys from the Homeworlds.

But these convoys did not arrive.

Waystations ceased to report and HPG connections to the homeworlds fell silent.

Kerlin Ward had known exactly where the bases were and where the convoys would be. And the three Clans had only promised to avoid targeting the homeworld enclaves. Unobserved in the frenzy of the invasion, fast squadrons had ranged after the invasion and in a single month they took control of the key links connecting the invaders to their homeworlds. And it took precious time - almost another three months - for this to become clear, with a Cloud Cobra jumpship arriving to report of mass revolt on the Tanite worlds and a 'relief force' from the Wolves and Coyotes that simply seized and stripped the Cobra's remaining assets on the colonies.

Nadia Winson's native caution might have avoided the pitfall but angry Khans from almost every Clan forced her hand - a massive vote by the Council proclaimed the Wolves, Coyotes and Goliath Scorpions as dezgra. And the Wolves had seized the HPG links, not broken them. Cast out by the invaders they were no longer bound not to assail their enclaves... and their secondline forces had been expanded for two years as the other Clans exhausted themselves. Many of the garrisons facing them offered only token resistance, having been taken from these three clans to begin with or resenting being left behind by their peers. Critical nodes of defense were seized first and resistance could not possibly be coordinated between more than a dozen Clans - especially as their relief were at least a year away.

The year is 3008. The Invading Clans, exhausted, stand on a precipice. Behind them they have their hostile brethern and a vast void separating them not even from fresh supplies and reinforcements but from homes that will be well prepared to resist their return. Ahead of them is a rough and ready coalition led by Ian Davion, Janos Marik, Maximilian Liao and the newly elected Julian Tiepolo - determined that they will not follow the Combine into annihilation or the Commonwealth into submission to their ancient FWL rivals by the sliver of worlds still free to follow Katrina Steiner.

And all around the Clans lies their occupation zone, not a proud and shining new Star League but bitter and resentful conquered provinces, barely garrisoned and ready to turn knife, gun or improvised explosive device against any Clan warrior who lowers their guard.

The Crusade is over. Now the battle for survival begins.
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Red Pins

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2018, 12:22:33 AM »

OOOO - me likey!  Maybe - just call it, "No Compromise"?
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drakensis

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2018, 04:17:11 AM »

That could work.

The entire set-up reminds me of the old joke: "Before you criticise someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes."

The Crusaders have what they want and now they're choking on it.

Where this goes next would be messy with different Clans wanting to do different things. Some want to return and defeat the three Home Clans. Others want to push on to Terra. Some want to destroy the other Successor States first or dig in and build up local resources first. The most likely outcome seems to me to be 'all of the above' with the invaders fracturing and Clans going in every which way. Nadia Winson is almost certainly doomed since as ilKhan she's led them into this debacle. The best she can hope for is a glorious death on the battlefield.

I can't imagine the alliance of the remaining Successor States lasting long since Max Liao is part of it, but at least this is before Anton Marik's revolt and the doppelganger thing, so he isn't quite so much on his neighbours' shit list.
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Takiro

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2018, 06:26:57 AM »

Well done drak, you've setup a Crusaders dream turned nightmare. A worthy tribble!

A few comments.

I will say is that Star Adder is likely the most prepared of this invasion force probably due to their instinctive nature.

The technological difference has got to be enormously stark between Level 1 (3025) tech equipped InnerSphere forces and Level 2 equipped Clan troops. What's a Gauss Rifle? Double Heat Sinks?? Yikes if your an elite Sphere Warrior (2/3) taking on a Regular Clanner (3/4) and you somehow win a trial against these odds you should be incorporated as a bondsman immediately.

Combat style of the Third Succession War is much more limited warfare than Hanse introduces in the 4th so the InnerSphere mindset would have to adapt as well as their tech or direct confrontation is a no win scenario.

A world like Hesperus would be ideal for the Crusaders to take and hold. Not a large populace so they can keep control and it can keep producing equipment indefinitely.
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Bradshaw

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2018, 08:43:31 AM »

Interesting plot twist that could mirror Canon. Katrina Steiner disappeared around this time into the periphery fleeing Heimdall or was it Loki Agents does she and and Morgan Kell run into the lead elements of the Clans like Phelan did?

I wouldn't see the Houses being able to unite like Canon unless Comstar took up this role. I'd see Ian taking advantage of Kurita misfortune to strike along their border.

FWL at this time is an absolute mess. I believe.

Maximilian had just overthrew his father a few years prior.

If the Clans really united into a combined force of 14 clans I could easily see them taking Terra within 3-4 years. Especially if they have an overall Strategist for the Operation Restoration or Revival if stick with that name.

So if they take Terra now what? The rest of the Innersphere won't capitulate just because of this. You'd still have 3 Houses (Marik, Liao, Davion) now able to strike at you. The only downside is no Warship at all. If Clans use them to their fullest only massive waves of Aerospace fighters would have a chance of stymieing them at all.
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drakensis

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2018, 04:07:20 PM »

I did make an error thinking Katrina had returned (she had) and become Archon (she hadn't) by 3005. However it's viable to have her and Frederick on the frontlines bleeding the Clans and let Alessandro die in the defense of Tharkad, leaving the two generals as fire-forged comrades to lead what little remains of the Commonwealth. Which wouldn't include Hesperus II - although likely the factories were sabotaged and while they can build 'Mechs they can only build Inner Sphere gear for now.

The FWL isn't doing terribly badly in 3005 - they've had almost 10 years of relative peace at the start of Janos' reign and Anton hasn't gone rogue yet. Meanwhile Maximilian has had a decade to solidify his position and Ian Davion has spent the first few years of his reign focused on the Draconis Combine, which leaves the Capellans under reduced pressure from both sides.

The House wouldn't band together immediately, but ComStar can act as a unifying factor once they've had several months to grasp what they'd dealing with. Rubenstein is Primus but would be removed before long and there's a good chance they would share advanced technology with the Successor States rather than see the Clans replace them. Neither Tiepolo nor Rubenstein is quite as... ambitious as Waterly.

The Star Adders would probably be one of the Clans in better shape in the Inner Sphere, but because they took lots of garrisons and supplies they'd be left as one of the weaker Clans in the Homeworlds. Which I suppose makes their decision of whether to head back or to focus on stabilising a domain in the Inner Sphere.

As for a united Clan force... well, this is the Clans. They've been generally managing to go in the same direction for two years, which is stretching credibility as it is. But in that time they'd have made around twice as much progress as the canonical Clan invasion due to less advanced opposition and not taking a year out. Their frontline would be roughly a horizontal line across the Inner Sphere around Dyev or Pike IV. Their pause before hitting Terra is because they know it's going to be well fortified: ComStar has warships and has hired Mercs (the other states are happy to let them do this because if Terra is lost then their own source of advanced weapons vanishes).

That line encompasses virtually all the DC except a few worlds probably in FS hands, a little of the FS near the OWA and almost all the LC except a thin wedge along the FWL border. Up to this point the invasion is going very well for them in terms of worlds taken and it's only just beginning to sink in that they've rather over-extended themselves.
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Takiro

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2018, 08:14:53 PM »

Very interesting that there is a young Focht out there, maybe he gets saved by ComStar after a hopeless battle and is reborn a little early... ;) I could see Alessandro defeating the Clans early like his early Concentrated Weakness scheme from canon only to get over confident again here.

Bradshaw had an alternate he posted not that long ago where he postulated a Hanse Davion-Theresa Marik marriage, could that work here as the basis for the Federated Worlds League? They might be the great power to hold the Clans back.

Of course that doesn't factor the Capellans in but maybe Max is playing games as usual. ComStar is likely trying to get folks together but I wouldn't doubt the Free Worlds League and Federated Suns are absorbing what is left of the Lyrans and Dracs near their borders.

Ice Hellion would not favor any delay and probably crash headlong into Terra and its SDS revealing a far more powerful ComStar.

Upgrading Hesperus would be a massive but worth while task which might be possible even with the Clans poor situation. Five to ten years to upgrade likely.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2018, 02:24:05 AM »

Very interesting that there is a young Focht out there, maybe he gets saved by ComStar after a hopeless battle and is reborn a little early... ;)

Or taken as Bondsman.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2018, 02:24:52 AM »

Ice Hellion would not favor any delay and probably crash headlong into Terra and its SDS revealing a far more powerful ComStar.

You think they are fools, don't you?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2018, 01:20:06 PM »

Very interesting that there is a young Focht out there, maybe he gets saved by ComStar after a hopeless battle and is reborn a little early... ;)

Or taken as Bondsman.

I'll go one farther with you - what about the Kells? Could father or uncle follow the path where Phelan treaded in canon??

Ice Hellion would not favor any delay and probably crash headlong into Terra and its SDS revealing a far more powerful ComStar.

You think they are fools, don't you?

Yes, yes I do!

At least that is the way the Clan as a whole comes off with their 'haste making waste' cliché. Now I am just proposing these theories in large part based on canon and here there was no Dragoon Compromise. In canon there was and Ice Hellion basically fought a Civil War over that decision which was hidden from outside view. Now here you have a conservative ilKhan calling a halt to a widely successful invasion just light years from its objective. I have no objection if the same event plays out here in a different way with the saKhan confronting the Khan and battle erupting over which is right.

But my statement was not born from hey their dumb rather a look at what had happened and what is likely to happen.
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drakensis

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2018, 04:59:51 PM »

Before it's established what Clans do what after the hold on the invasion, it's probably worth considering which Clans fight which state. Overall it seems likely that invading the Draconis Combine would be more prestigous than invading the Lyran Commonwealth as the former is considered more impressive as a military power.

In addition the Draconis Combine covers fractionally more of that side of the Inner Sphere. So let's say seven Clans are assigned specifically to the Combine, six to the Commonwealth and one to the border region between them.

Using the canonical REVIVAL trials, I'm giving the three leading Clans from there the more prestigious option: the Jade Falcons, Ghost Bears and Smoke Jaguars are the core of the Combine side of the invasion.

It seems fairly likely that Ulric assigned the Nova Cats and Steel Vipers to partner the Falcons and Jaguars in canon because he knew they'd fight. Since Nadia Winson is trying to avoid such conflicts, let's assume she assigns them to the Commonwealth corridor to keep them away from that conflicts, and for the same logic she does the same with the Ghost Bears' traditional Hells Horses rivals. Thus the core three clans for fighting the Lyran Commonwealth are the Nova Cats, Steel Viper and Hells Horses

Building from this there are two loose alliances worth exploiting: the 'snakes' (Steel Vipers, Cloud Cobras and Star Adders) and the Blood Spirits plus the only two Clans that they're on speaking terms with them: the Fire Mandrills and Snow Ravens. Since the Vipers are already in the Lyran Corridor, the Cobras and Adders join them while the Blood Spirits little clique join the Combine half. And since the Blood Spirits loathe the Burrocks it makes logical sense to send the Burrocks to the Lyran side.

This leaves only two Clans to allocate, the Diamond Sharks and the Ice Hellions, so they'll be pushed into the centre. The Diamond Sharks are pretty certainly the most formidable and the border area is likely to be most fortified so they get the border slot and the Hellions are crammed into the Combine side.

In general, weaker Clans are pushed towards the outlying regions since they'll wind up fighting more of the periphery and periphery border worlds that are less prestigious (and softer) targets.

So this leaves the corridors as follows:

Lyran 1 - Burrocks
Lyran 2 - Cloud Cobras
Lyran 3 - Star Adders
Lyran 4 - Steel Vipers
Lyran 5 - Hells Horses
Lyran 6 - Nova Cats
Border - Diamond Sharks
Drac 1 - Ice Hellions
Drac 2 - Ghost Bears
Drac 3 - Jade Falcons
Drac 4 - Smoke Jaguars
Drac 5 - Snow Ravens
Drac 6 - Blood Spirits
Drac 7 - Fire Mandrills
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 05:02:06 PM by drakensis »
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Takiro

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2018, 11:26:04 PM »

Combat Trials and bidding would likely determine the order like Operation Revival did in canon but there could be a fair amount of operational control dictated by the ilKhan.

Some general thoughts on your Invading Clans -

Blood Spirit (BS) - Probably paired with Fire Mandrill and Snow Raven with an outside chance for Diamond Shark
Burrock (Bur) - I'd incorporate them into the 'Snake Alliance' which should include Star Adder, Steel Viper, and Cloud Cobra
Cloud Cobra (CC) - with the bloodname Steiner it would be interesting if they were in the Lyran Commonwealth
Diamond Shark (DS) - the reserve Clan before they could be again here, not in the forefront, just happy to expand their markets
Fire Mandrill (FM) - Kindraa Sainze going back to the Draconis Combine might be too good an angle to pass up despite their divided nature
Ghost Bear (GB) - I like where you are going with the three core Clans but why not have them in the middle and in Rasalhague again? Be a nice similar theme with them identifying with the natives and thinking about settling down there.
Hell's Horses (HH) - tough one here as they might get the shaft since their blood rival is running the show, can you say the Periphery flank, they might be extremely well suited here however
Ice Hellion (IH) - love to see them against the LCAF just tearing up their heavies with lights
Jade Falcon (JF) - love your core three idea but again would have them just the Lyran side of the Bears
Nova Cat (NC) - could the Bear ilKhan have the Cats along side the Jags again just to slow a rival ;)
Smoke Jaguar (SJ) - love your core three idea but again would have them just the Draconis side of the Bears
Snow Raven (SR) - I'd pair them closely with the Bears, perhaps like the Sharks they could be a reserve, just happy to trail along
Star Adder (SA) - love the 'Snake Alliance', I'd also like to model the Klondike relations for the Bears and Adders here, tense and at odds with the Bears senstive to Adder military strategic advice
Steel Viper (SV) - love the 'Snake Alliance', perhaps like the Cats and the Jags, the Vipers go next to the Falcons in order to slow a rival

So my center would have the Ghost Bears in the center flanked by the Falcons and the Jaguars with the 'Snake Alliance' drawing the Lyrans and the weaker Spirit-Mandrill-Raven crew getting the Draconis Combine. Ravens you could have on the Periphery Draconis flank so they can connect to their Outworld canon theme plus it pushes the weaker Clans to the outside of the Combine. Nova Cat would flank the Jags. The only two I had to fiddle with were Hell's Horses and Ice Hellion (which I unfortunately couldn't place in the LC) in my first option.

                                DS
HH-Bur-CC-SA-SV-JF-GB-SJ-NC-IH-FM-BS-SR

Although I could pull a switch from Hell's Horses being assigned all the way to frontier duty to the Wolves Revival spot which does stick to the theme. Still doesn't move the Ice Hellions to the Lyran side or address the weaker Clans being in the Draconis Combine but hey....

                                DS
Bur-CC-SA-SV-JF-HH-GB-SJ-NC-IH-FM-BS-SR

What do you think??
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Red Pins

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2018, 11:52:12 PM »

I'm ok with it.
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drakensis

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2018, 03:36:45 AM »

I can see the arguement for keeping the stronger clans in the centre along the border region.

I'm not sure I buy the Diamond Sharks as a reserve. The reserve status in canon was the only way they could work their way in at all, but they still beat out ten other Clans to get in. Given the lack of prestige, a reserve force is likely to be the weakest Clans which wouldn't include the Diamond Sharks.

It could wind up with 11 frontline Clans and 3 reserves, with the Blood Spirits, Fire Mandrills and Snow Ravens in that position (Snow Ravens aren't all that weak but their naval focus works against them). Cloud Cobras are another weak Clan so possibly they could be stuck with a reserve slot in place of the Fire Mandrills (who are fractious but seem to manage trials well enough) and have the Cobras backing up the Vipers & Adders on one flank, the Blood Spirits backing up the Fire Mandrills on the other flank and the Snow Ravens backing up the centre.


Lyran 1 - Burrocks
Lyran 2 - Ice Hellions
Lyran 3 - Star Adders
Lyran 4 - Steel Vipers
Lyran Reserve - Cloud Cobras
Border 1 - Smoke Jaguars
Border 2 - Ghost Bears
Border 3 - Jade Falcons
Border Reserve - Snow Ravens
Drac 1 - Nova Cats
Drac 2 - Diamond Sharks
Drac 3 - Hells Horses
Drac 4 - Fire Mandrills
Drac Reserve - Blood Spirits

I flipped the Jaguars and Falcons so as not to mirror Canon. If the DC side is preferable to the LC side, the Falcons were actually slightly more successful than the Jaguars in the Trials in canon so they get their preference. Since Winson wants to keep them away from their rivals this keeps the Nova Cats and Steel Vipers get their canonical side and the 'Snake Alliance' also gets the LC side, which puts the Blood Spirits on the DC side as the other flank reserve and the Burrocks on the LC side to avoid the Blood Spirits.
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Takiro

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Re: No Dragoons Compromise
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2018, 06:37:55 AM »

Blood Spirit and Fire Mandrill do not say reserve Clans to me simply because of martial prowess. Despite their resource situation their warriors have proven to be pretty damn capable even against the Clans. Snow Raven and Cloud Cobra are another story however given their aerospace specialty and in Revival they failed to even make the combat trials. So I can see them as back up.

Maybe we are a bit too spread out and just need to think of this as three common corridors. Center as the Ghost Bears, the Lyran Wing as the Jade Falcon (I'd stick to canon somewhat here but you can flip em), and the Draconis Wing as the Smoke Jaguars. Now team Clans with these leaders based on friendship or shared themes

Blood Spirit (BS) - individual warrior prowess, Smoke Jaguar
Burrock (Bur) - Crusader Alliance, Jade Falcon
Cloud Cobra (CC) - Crusader Alliance, Jade Falcon
Diamond Shark (DS) - traditional friend, Ghost Bear
Fire Mandrill (FM) - individual warrior prowess, Smoke Jaguar 
Hell's Horses (HH) - Crusader Alliance, Jade Falcon
Ice Hellion (IH) - individual warrior prowess, Smoke Jaguar 
Nova Cat (NC) - traditional friend, Ghost Bear
Snow Raven (SR) - traditional friend, Ghost Bear
Star Adder (SA) - Crusader Alliance, Jade Falcon
Steel Viper (SV) - individual warrior prowess, Smoke Jaguar

In this scenario I'd place them out like this with the Wings receiving 5 Clans and the center getting 4.
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