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Author Topic: Post Lapsum (AU Idea in Progress)  (Read 7229 times)

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Knightmare

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Re: Post Lapsum (AU Idea in Progress)
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2012, 11:04:09 AM »

Have you thought about a more positive reaction in the Lyran Commonwealth to Alaric? The old Lyran Guard won't like him much, but if he brings some positive changes to the Commonwealth worlds he takes...well, it could prove interesting in the remainder of the Commonwealth.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Post Lapsum (AU Idea in Progress)
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2012, 11:34:35 AM »

Interesting you mention that. I was just pondering over breakfast this morning, that perhaps the idea of the fifth column Brotherhood of Cincinatus (sp?) could be updated to deal with Alaric's brood (as he likely wouldn't be alive or at least in power in 3200 or 3250). Lyrans campaigning for a Steiner-Davion back on the throne. It's amusing.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Post Lapsum (AU Idea in Progress)
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2012, 10:13:10 PM »

So, here's some fun food for thought.

I just finally finished up a little project I've been working on. I spent time going comparing the 3130 map and the 3144 overlay map (shown earlier in the thread, I believe). I compiled a list of system ownership changes for each faction. I figured I would show it here, and let folks pick away at it. It gives some very interesting food for thought.

Please note, this is completely unofficial, based off other unofficial fan work. It is guesswork at its best, and absolute lunacy in all other cases. Though if someone wants to do a fan 3144 map with this info, I'd certainly love a copy. ;) Blacknova, it's not like I'm offering my soul or anything. Of course, this would probably require doing up a 3130 map first. My soul isn't worth that much.

A few quick notes. Anything in italics is a world that faction already had for one reason or another. Any system name in bold is (or at one time post-Jihad) was a production world. They were noted as such, simply so I could see what possible production places were available for my AU. Some of the counts don't match up, as I pulled numbers from Touring the Stars articles. My numbers didn't necessarily jive, but then again, I was doing this pretty much freeform from a fuzzy overlay map. And errors are certainly likely an absolute certainty. I also did not list every single system for each faction, simply ones that changed (gained or lost) for one reason or another.

Programming note: I really wish we could just straight add .xls files. It's in a zip format, and .xls file created with OpenOffice. If you have problems...don't ask me. My tech support muscles are long since atrophied. :D

I'm exhausted after this, but there's some really fascinating number comparison to discuss. More thoughts later tonight or tomorrow.

Edit: Knightmare, if this is something else you want to toss up on the downloads section, along with my Campaign System and production spreadsheet, feel free. Maybe other folks can get some use out of it, as a baseline for post-Bonfire work.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 10:14:21 PM by Dread Moores »
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Blacknova

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Re: Post Lapsum (AU Idea in Progress)
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2012, 10:42:33 PM »

Quote
Blacknova, it's not like I'm offering my soul or anything. Of course, this would probably require doing up a 3130 map first. My soul isn't worth that much.

I have to do some mapping for KM this weekend, so I'll have a look at what is involved and go from there.  Not promising anything as I was only up to 3067 and there were a few between there and 3130.

High jihad, end of Jihad, 3130 and 3144 are stretching things a little, but I'll see what I can do.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Post Lapsum (AU Idea in Progress)
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2012, 10:13:30 AM »

It's meant in jest, sir. I have a 3130 map that I work from (from Oystein's site) and a 3144 map wouldn't do much good, other than force me to feel like I actually have to finish an AU that I start. And we absolutely wouldn't want that to happen. ;)
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Dread Moores

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Re: Post Lapsum (AU Idea in Progress)
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2012, 10:43:06 AM »

So I mentioned some data comparison yesterday. Let's get started on that. Please keep in mind the notice in the previous post. This is so far beyond guesswork, I'm not even in the same ballpark to even make a comment on accuracy.

Wolf Empire
Systems in Clan Wolf OZ in 3130 - 56
Systems lost in Clan Wolf OZ by 3144 - 56
Production systems lost in Clan Wolf OZ by 3144 - 2
Systems in Wolf Empire territory in 3144 - 90
Production systems gained in Wolf Empire territory by 3144 - 5 (Solaris, Keystone, Kalidasa, Stewart, and Amity)

Granted, the Wolves will need a great deal of time to retool factories in the canon DA (perhaps not in the AU though). But Kalidasa and Keystone are major production coups. There is some serious production going on at those two places alone. And 90 worlds?! Yikes. The Wolves were so effective that when Jessica Hughes Marik rejoined the FWL, she brought in a Marik-Stewart Commonwealth that consisted of a whole 5 worlds (setting aside what they gained from the Republic). That's how badly they gutted the MSC.

Jade Falcons
Systems in OZ in 3130 - 44
Systems gained by 3144 - 76
Total systems controlled by 3144 - 120
Production systems gained by 3144 - 3 (Arcturus, Skye, Edasich)

Okay, I know folks don't like Malvina. But...it's hard to argue with those results. This puts the Jade Falcons only approximately 30 worlds less than the reformed FWL or 40 worlds less than CapCon in 3130. They are massive, by far the largest of the Clans, perhaps in all of Clan history. I don't have the first clue how they are holding these worlds. But yikes. Sure, the Wolves get some crazy production. But the resources (if Malvina didn't burn them all to the ground) that the Falcons can call up? That's pretty scary. I can't say I ever imagined seeing a Clan that could qualify as a minor Successor State. Even the Bears didn't pull that off.

Hell's Horses
Systems in OZ in 3130 - 26
Systems gained by 3144 - 17
Total systems controlled by 3144 - 43
Production systems gained by 3144 - 2 (Tamar and Weingarten)

Presuming nothing changed since the Jihad, the Horses took the only two manufacturing systems that Wolves held in their original OZ. That's pretty interesting, and a little amusing as I giggle at the thought of the Horses running Timberwolves alongside Eponas and Protos. Depending entirely on what happens with the Falcons, the Horses are the only Clan power check remaining against the Falcons. They have to be extremely careful how they broach their much larger opponent now.

Rasalhague Dominion
Systems in OZ in 3130 - 72
Systems gained by 3144 - 16
Total systems in 3144 - 88
Production systems gained by 3144 - 0

Alongside the Horses (and the Falcons to a smaller extent), the Dominion grew exclusively at the expense of the old Clan Wolf OZ. Just like the Horses and Falcons, they appear to have not lost a single world since 3130. They don't gain any production, but they do continue to suffer under the same problem the Bears do in canon material (up until the Jihad). By setting them up to be slow and complacent with largely unchanging territory...they kind of become boring.

IS faction changes up next, after a short message from our sponsors.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 10:46:54 AM by Dread Moores »
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Dread Moores

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Re: Post Lapsum (AU Idea in Progress)
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2012, 01:26:11 PM »

Free Worlds League
Total Systems Gained - 148
Total Non-Splinter State Systems Gained - 69
Total Systems in 3130 (of founding member states only, not independent worlds) - 101
Total Production Systems Gained - 10
Total Non-Splinter State Production Systems Gained - 5 (Westover, Savannah, Connaught, Talitha, and Irian)
Total Systems in 3144 - 148
Total Systems Lost - 36

Okay, this one got a little complicated. While 148 seems like a big number, that includes the four splinter states (Marik-Stewart, Oriente, Rim Commanlity, and Tamarind-Abbey) that make up the reformed FWL. They gained 69 total worlds (from the Lyrans, Republic, and former indepedent FWL worlds) while losing 36. Up from the original 101 of the four founding splinter states, that's pretty good. The real coup was in the production worlds they gained. Westover is a former FWDI plant, which is nice. And Irian is well...Irian. Even with the Jihad damage, the reformed FWL may very well end up being the largest producer left on the anti-spinward section of the IS map. At this point, they may even beat out the Lyrans for number of producing worlds, though it is hard to say, depending on what happens with Hesperus and other worlds in terms of recovery. The Wolf Empire gains did put a nice hurt on the MSC, though they made up for that by taking such a large chunk of worlds from the Republic. The Clan Protectorate probably doesn't hurt either.

Regulan Fiefs
Total Systems Gained - 3
Total Systems in 3130 - 27
Total Production Systems Gained - 0
Total Systems in 3144 - 30

There's not a lot to say about Regulus. They seemed to make very limited gains, none of which led to increased production. They still have two indepedent worlds between them and Oriente that they could grab in the near future. But again, those systems don't offer a great deal of infrastructure. There are a wealth of independent worlds between Regulus, Andurien, and the Rim Commonality, so there is some future expansion possible there. It'll be interesting to see where they try to expand, currently being hemmed in by the Wolves and the reformed FWL. I don't envy their position at all.

Lyran Commonwealth
Total Systems Lost - 82
Total Systems in 3130 - 319
Total Production Systems Lost - 2 (Edasich and Solaris)
Total Systems in 3130 - 237

Oh, the poor Lyrans. They already gave up much of Skye (and portions of Bolan) province to the Republic. It just gets worse for them. They seem to make no gains against the Falcons, lose their disputed territories to the Falcons, and lose almost territory equal to the size of the new Wolf Empire or the old Rasalhague Dominion. Thankfully, production world losses are small. Solaris hurts, depending on what was rebuilt there after the Jihad. (The Wolves with Solaris makes me chuckle.) However, they now have the Falcons literally on the doorstep of Gibbs (their last surviving JumpShip yard at the end of the Jihad), Tharkad, Eutin (major battle armor production site), and Coventry. Coventry could become a huge problem, as it has likely become a major secondary supplier, right after DefHes. If the Falcons can hold territory and rebuild for another invasion...the Lyrans may very well fracture permanently.

Interesting side note on the Lyrans. They have a little island of worlds completely cut off from the rest of Commonwealth by the new Falcon thrust into Skye. Sitting directly outside of the RD, the worlds of Symington, Eaglesham, Phalan, Accrington, Dalkeith, Port Moseby, and Sakhalin are totally isolated. They have the Bears, Falcons, and the remains of Republic Prefecture IX and I cutting them off. That has some great possibilities for future development.

Draconis Combine
Total Systems Gained - 54
Total Systems in 3130 - 243
Total Production Systems Gained - 2 (Al Na'ir and Quentin)
Total Systems in 3144 - 297

Well, the Dragon's charge into former Republic territory helped them. They also managed to claim the disputed worlds along the border they shared with the FedSuns. Quentin and Al Na'ir are questionable acquisitions, as there are a lot of questions about how much production survived the Jihad and the Republic's disarmament policies. No gains at all against the RD or FedSuns since 3130. With a looming civil war, the antagonistic Ravens still around at their back, and a possibly resurgent warlord on the Davion throne...things will be very hot along the Dragon's borders in the near future. Much like the FedSuns, CapCon, and major Periphery states, the Dragon has suffered no noticeable losses.

Federated Suns
Total Systems Gained - 20
Total Systems in 3130 - 434
Total Production Systems Gained - 1 (Tikonov)
Total Systems in 3144 - 454

The Davions are still the biggest kid on the block. They manage to snatch Tikonov from the grasp of the Capellans during the charge through former Republic territories. While I admit a certain anti-Davion bias, I have to admit that I'm impressed they suffered no losses. Unfortunately, I think they quickly become like the Ghost Bears on the macro-scale. Boring and unchanging. Looking at it from the Au perspective, I think there's a lot of room for improvement here.

Capellan Confederation
Total Systems Gained - 50
Total Systems in 3130 - 166
Total Production Systems Gained - 3 (Nanking, Asuncion, and Styx)
Total Systems in 3144 - 216

Anybody who doubted the Capellans as a threat have been shown a very unwelcome surprise. They absolutely mauled three Prefectures of the Republic, conducted simultaneous fronts against the reforming FWL and the Davions, all while holding their territory intact. While they aren't climbing the territorial ladder to scrap it out with the biggest people on the block, they have two key advantages going. Right now, they have an awful lot of production that has been untouched, even during the Jihad. They also have a growing relationship with the MoC and indirectly, Andurien. If a non-aggression pact or alliance of some sort could come to fruition (and that certainly seems like a trick Daoshen could pull off) between these three nations, then I'd be willing to bet that any war plans of FWL or Davion commanders would need to undergo serious reconsideration. If they can manage to stabilize one border (partially) with such an alliance, then the other borders are going to need to be increasingly vigilant. Caleb or Jessica may have a rather fast trial by fire on their hands. The Capellans also hold the advantage of having no major internal conflicts currently happening (at least, not any that are known of at this time). That makes them unique among the five original Successor States. They can focus exclusively outwards, and that doesn't bode well for the neighborhood.

Republic of the Sphere
Total Non-Prefecture X Systems Gained - 13
Total Systems in 3130 - 250
Total Prefecture X Systems in 3130 - 24
Total Production Systems Gained - 1
Total Prefecture X Production Systems - 6
Total Systems in 3144 - 37
Total Worlds Lost- 160
Total Production Worlds Lost - 13

My poor, poor Republic. Let's hope you get up to some major nastiness behind the walls of the Fortress. Just like the FWL and Wolf Empire, the numbers are a bit deceiving. They withdrew entirely into Prefecture X (while adding a few other worlds within the Fortress boundaries). Effectively, with the exception of a few worlds that went with the Senatorial Alliance, stayed independent, or were added to the Fortress' protection, they lost everything else but Prefecture X. They give the listing as 250 systems for the RoTS in 3130, but I didn't do an exact count (it also doesn't seem quite right). I counted roughly 160 worlds lost, and there were only 13 worlds gained (at best) to add to the Fortress.

Their production situation seems pretty strong, right? 7 total production worlds? Here's the problem. Most of those are Prefecture X worlds that were absolutely blasted during the Jihad (Outreach, Epsilon Eridani, Dieron, Terra, Yorii, and Altair). I don't imagine that Outreach was rebuilt in any major capacity, nor the Warworks on Eridani. Terra seems to have cut back on production under Devlin's reforms, so that leaves Dieron, Yorii, and Altair to pick up the slack. I'd imagine Dieron wasn't rebuilt much in terms of production (as it had virtually nothing by the end of the Jihad). Sure, they theoretically add Northwind to the Fortress, but who knows what Northwind really produces in the Dark Age? That pretty much means that Northwind and Terra have to carry the weight. We've certainly seen that Terra can be a powerhouse when it wants to be. I have no idea what to make of all this at the moment, but I know there is an awful lot of potential for adaption and change. What comes out of the Fortress when the walls come down...that will be a very fascinating day.

Interesting side note: New Dallas may technically fall under the Fortress walls. Hidden World Mk II, anyone?  ;D
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Dread Moores

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Re: Post Lapsum (AU Idea in Progress)
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2012, 05:50:08 PM »

Well, I just finished listing all the maximum production available for each faction (I didn't bother knocking out lines destroyed by the Jihad or after, just dead worlds). And I discovered that my numbers up above are a bit off, as I found a few more production worlds that I forgot about. I'll try to get that updated sometime later tonight or tomorrow, as well as post the 3144 production spreadsheet. Using those as a base, I might actually have the right info to see what I can change for the AU itself.
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