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Author Topic: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?  (Read 22588 times)

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ATN082268

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Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« on: January 08, 2014, 02:44:47 AM »

  Do the "rich" pay their "fair" share?

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/44604

  I'll let you be the judge...
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Abele

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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2014, 06:59:25 AM »

They do, but they also have the ability and finances to exploit just about every loophole written into our tax code.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 07:03:47 AM by Abele »
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2014, 07:56:04 AM »

They do, but they also have the ability and finances to exploit just about every loophole written into our tax code.

Pretty much this the rest just get to skimp and save I'm happy to may my mortgage and carry on
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Rainbow 6

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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 04:00:07 PM »

They do, but they also have the ability and finances to exploit just about every loophole written into our tax code.

Pretty much this the rest just get to skimp and save I'm happy to may my mortgage and carry on

I know that feeling well.
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TigerShark

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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2014, 03:12:00 AM »

I don't believe there is a problem with paying a "fair share." 0% income tax was the norm in the 19th century and we survived just fine.

The problem is "do the rich contribute their fair share?" Once tax cuts are given to individuals or corporations, there is no guarantee this money will be recycled into the middle-class economy.

Tax cut -> Investments -> Dividends/Losses -> Investments

None of this "trickles down" to the common man working at Starbuck's or installing a toilette in someone's home. They might see a bit of extra work, but for someone of their wage bracket, that equals a few hundred dollars vs. the thousands or millions a single rich person gains from tax benefits.

If there are going to be tax cuts or a lowering of the tax burden, they should be dependent upon payroll increase. If a qualified payroll expense can be proven (new hires only; 'bonuses' for existing employees at managerial level and above are not qualifying expenses), then a tax deduction is granted at the end of the year. If not, then this money is simply being hoarded away and impacts the general well-being of the economy.

People will get their tax break, the middle class (the largest portion of the "consumer" population) grows and everybody wins. As it sits, however, the money is just getting tucked away into investment funds, CDs, off-short accounts, the stock market, precious metals: Things other wealthy people profit from. Walk up to an RN or a manager at Home Depot and ask what their investment porfolio looks like. Unless they're 50+ years of age, it's often a paycheck-to-paycheck situation.
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Red Pins

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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2014, 12:23:34 PM »

I'm Canadian, but the way your Dems talk, it gives me a bad feeling.
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JPArbiter

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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2014, 04:17:11 PM »

the question will always remain "what is considered a fair share" of the burden.  in terms of raw dollars there is no denying that even those barely considered wealthy by the USIRS are paying more in taxes then fully half of the united States (who pay 0% of thier income)

I have talked to and are friends with people on all sides of the issue.  I know some people who want to scrap the income tax all together and go to a national Value Added Tax based on what kinds of items are purchased (groceries would be low, luxury items high).  I know some people who have said that Million dollar makes and above need to be taxed so thier effective income is no more then 50,000 a year effectivly punishing success and incentivisng cheating.

my opinion is as such.  the system in the US is completly broken but I haven't the foggiest idea how to repair it.  I DO know that relying on a 64 volume, 3,000 page per volume "Tax Code" is extremly unweidly and frankly setting fire to that in favor of a new Edition would be nice.
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TigerShark

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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 10:19:12 PM »

the question will always remain "what is considered a fair share" of the burden.  in terms of raw dollars there is no denying that even those barely considered wealthy by the USIRS are paying more in taxes then fully half of the united States (who pay 0% of thier income)

I have talked to and are friends with people on all sides of the issue.  I know some people who want to scrap the income tax all together and go to a national Value Added Tax based on what kinds of items are purchased (groceries would be low, luxury items high).  I know some people who have said that Million dollar makes and above need to be taxed so thier effective income is no more then 50,000 a year effectivly punishing success and incentivisng cheating.

my opinion is as such.  the system in the US is completly broken but I haven't the foggiest idea how to repair it.  I DO know that relying on a 64 volume, 3,000 page per volume "Tax Code" is extremly unweidly and frankly setting fire to that in favor of a new Edition would be nice.

The "BV3" of the IRS, if you will. ;-)
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JPArbiter

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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2014, 12:05:12 PM »

were it up to me I would wipe away all digital copies of the code and gather up all physical copies and burn them, thus forcing a rewrite.

as an addendum, I NEVER comment on other nations taxation policies because despite a strong desire to move to Canada, I have never lived nor paid taxes aside from Sales/VATs in other countries.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 12:06:41 PM by JPArbiter »
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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2014, 01:26:59 PM »

I know some people who want to scrap the income tax all together and go to a national Value Added Tax based on what kinds of items are purchased (groceries would be low, luxury items high).

Don't worry, I pay both and I don't know if I am rich (I don't know how you define it) but the ending results are that the system doesn't work and is on the edge of bankrupcy (like most States in the world).
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TigerShark

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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2014, 02:20:18 PM »

A side note to this is that tax rates are high due to unnecessary spending. Our military budget is higher than that of the next five nations combined, regarding military spending. Our budget is nearly three times that of China, and I doubt anyone would argue that the People's Republic is in any danger from outside forces. lol Simply scaling this amount back could ease some of the burden and lower the effective rates for some Americans.
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JPArbiter

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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2014, 10:12:02 AM »

A side note to this is that tax rates are high due to unnecessary spending. Our military budget is higher than that of the next five nations combined, regarding military spending. Our budget is nearly three times that of China, and I doubt anyone would argue that the People's Republic is in any danger from outside forces. lol Simply scaling this amount back could ease some of the burden and lower the effective rates for some Americans.

I tend to avoid any suggested solutions that start with "Simply" cause they often have unintended consequences that are not so simple.
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TigerShark

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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2014, 01:47:08 PM »

A side note to this is that tax rates are high due to unnecessary spending. Our military budget is higher than that of the next five nations combined, regarding military spending. Our budget is nearly three times that of China, and I doubt anyone would argue that the People's Republic is in any danger from outside forces. lol Simply scaling this amount back could ease some of the burden and lower the effective rates for some Americans.

I tend to avoid any suggested solutions that start with "Simply" cause they often have unintended consequences that are not so simple.

Some of the suggested solutions don't seem to have any drawback. We're maintaining military bases in locations which are no longer in danger. The Soviet Union doesn't exist, so maintaining a missile defense ring around Russia isn't a very practical idea in today's world. We certainly don't need to keep fully-staffed bases in England, Germany and Italy. And we have a titanic surface fleet which consists of antiquated warships.

A battleship can easily be taken out by hypersonic missiles developed by the Soviets and Iranians. Were a conflict to occur between the Iranians and the USA, most of our surface vessels would need to be out of effective range, making the battleship's naval guns completely worthless. There are no more battles between dreadnaughts; that died out almost 70 years ago. We live in an age where drones and cruise missiles do much of the fighting; maintaining these vessels is a waste of funds, IMO.
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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2014, 03:22:22 PM »

We certainly don't need to keep fully-staffed bases in England, Germany and Italy.

I would agree with your surface fleet suggestion and a reorganization of the military's budget, but I would completely disagree with dismantling our bases in these locations. While the Cold War is over, these facilities represent a very real commitment to the friendship, defense and worth of the host countries. Geopolitics being what they are these days, being a fair-weather friend is not good policy. That said, I do think NATO and/or the U.N. could be allowed in to a greater degree to help offset the financial burden of running some of these bases (Germany's in particular is a Cold War monster), if only to help shoulder some of the cost of their operation.
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TigerShark

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Re: Do the "rich" pay their "fair" shair?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2014, 04:19:08 PM »

We certainly don't need to keep fully-staffed bases in England, Germany and Italy.

I would agree with your surface fleet suggestion and a reorganization of the military's budget, but I would completely disagree with dismantling our bases in these locations. While the Cold War is over, these facilities represent a very real commitment to the friendship, defense and worth of the host countries. Geopolitics being what they are these days, being a fair-weather friend is not good policy. That said, I do think NATO and/or the U.N. could be allowed in to a greater degree to help offset the financial burden of running some of these bases (Germany's in particular is a Cold War monster), if only to help shoulder some of the cost of their operation.

How do China, Russia, Japan and Germany survive in this geopolitical climate without manning a number of military bases into the triple digits?

That has more to do with our foreign policy than the rest of the world. Our nation's national religion of egalitarianism has become intrusive and conflicting with other countries' values. Interfering in the affairs of other nations while doing nothing to protect our own has prodded our enemies into action. It's emboldened them. The situation is akin to stealing your neighbor's car, then claiming you need to buy a pistol to protect yourself from an angry neighbor. The problem isn't the dire need for protection; it's not causing the conflict to begin with.
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