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Author Topic: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)  (Read 79416 times)

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Dread Moores

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2013, 03:19:50 PM »

In more ways than one, I think I can deal with living in a socialist paradise.

Oh, how I wish that I could. Unfortunately, this illegal German immigrant descendant is stuck in the land of make-believe and over-exaggeration to obscure any and all facts and critical analysis as quickly as possible.

Side note: I'm pretty sure we have countries for the express purpose of allowing rugby tournaments to have more than one team. Because really, who wants to root for Belarus anyway? Best in the world!

*Any and all potential offensive indications towards the talent level of Belarus' rugby team are meant for humorous purposes only, and to drive home the point that clearly Dread doesn't know a bloody thing about rugby.

For those of the tl;dr crowd...I'd really love to have insurance, so as to be able to pay for the surgery that would alleviate me having to down rather unhealthy amounts of painkillers and stomach medicines four or five times a day. I'd really love to replace my broken glasses, so as not to drive about with a continual squint to read street signs. I'd love to be able to have my teeth cleaned sometime this decade. Unfortunately, I make "too much" money to reap most of the benefits of the public option-less ACA. For some strange reason, working three different jobs in the 70 to 100 hour a week range to pay for your veteran father with mental health issues who has been pretty much abandoned by the for-profit medical system (and the veteran's administration, thanks for your service!) is apparently something we should all aspire to now in the land of make-believe. Let me tell you, this whole living with your parents in your later life and living predominately off apples and crackers, it's nothing but sunshine and unicorns here as a welfare pimp. I'm going to go see if Mr. McFeely has delivered my letters yet.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 03:47:37 PM by Dread Moores »
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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2013, 03:49:53 PM »

Just because they have no national team...

I must admit, I don't get much of the American psyche - A fair go far all, but if you can't make then dammed be you by all.

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Marlin

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2013, 03:53:20 PM »

Dread, sounds not great. But examples have been made in other countries that it can be done. Don't know how it will work out in the U. S. I hope the best, but.. I am repeating myself. :P


And was there not some initiative to legalize all those illegal immigrants? Could be a while, though.
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Takiro

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2013, 05:37:26 PM »

By all means, enjoy. :) That's why we have countries, so people can live as they please apart from others.

+1 on this TigerShark and I'll take it a step further. This is the reason we have different states in America. If you want universal health care move to a state with where they have that. Massachusetts for example and if you don't.... but the federal government has become such a tyrannical colossus these days. Not how it should be.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2013, 06:11:50 PM »

This is the reason we have different states in America.

It's a darn good thing those founding figures were time travelers, able to discern the ultimate reason states would be necessary for these Etats-Unis.

Massachusetts doesn't have what is commonly termed as universal health care. They do have greatly expanded public options though, which is what most people tend to remember. Universal health care though, it isn't that. Vermont is rather close to implementing the first roll out of a US version of what we love to call "socialized medicine." I believe their go-live date is 2017. It's a perfect test bed state, due to a number of demographic factors (not the least of which is their relative parity across socio-economic lines). I'll be insanely curious to start reading over some of the data dumps that come out of the first few years.
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TigerShark

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2013, 07:02:16 PM »

Dread, sounds not great. But examples have been made in other countries that it can be done. Don't know how it will work out in the U. S. I hope the best, but.. I am repeating myself. :P


And was there not some initiative to legalize all those illegal immigrants? Could be a while, though.

Yeah. The second general amnesty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986

That was the first one and we had a lot more scurry our way in the meantime.
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Knightmare

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2013, 08:16:20 AM »

That was the first one and we had a lot more scurry our way in the meantime.

Except those numbers are now at a record low (and have been for quite some time.) It might have something to do with the fact that America is not quite the land of opportunity, or that the numbers coincide with a dwindling middle class income bracket and devaluation of the dollar in relation to foreign currencies...

...The ACA does have some proper benefits for all Americans, but it was the health insurance programs that really screwed the pooch.

What the govt. should have done was expand Medicade—an already existing & functional program—to cover the coverless, enforce the new care mandates (which are really friggin good for healthy people, like a once a year physical with a GP, or the removal of caps on care), and spend some time on insurance reform—i.e. like regulating yearly premium increases—rather than jump into commercial insurance.

Expanding Medicade could have easily insured those without insurance or who needed coverage under an existing system, while better insure reform and oversight would have helped regulated an inflated insurance system while encouraging competition (when the govt. introduced private insurance policies, they really took competition off of the table by setting the monthly premium bar.)

Now don't get me wrong, this isn't the U.S. govt.'s first rodeo with insurance. The Fed govt. has had its own insurance programs for federal employees, soldiers, etc. for years and it functions very well, but this expanded model for the rest of the American public runs into problems if the number of HEALTHY people don't buy in. If that happens the system won't be able to pay for itself.

For example, say I decide to change my current health insurance to a silver plan from the ACA (the defacto minimum for someone in my income bracket.) After calculating the rough costs I'd be paying an almost identical premium per year—after tax breaks/incentives—for the same coverage. Where is my incentive to switch over to a new provider? That's one of the main drawbacks to the rough roll out, and why it was/is so important to the ACA's personal insurance plans.

Fiscally, this is where the ACA dropped the ball big time. They're hedging on the idea that healthy, happy Americans will switch their private insurance over to an ACA program before the govt./state cost split turns payment of the entire ACA insurance program into a black hole. Per state, the cost of supporting the ACA isn't much (at it's height it'll be 10 cents on a dollar), but it still comes out to tens of millions of dollars of wasted tax revenue if the system can't pay for itself.   

That said, while the ACA's rollout has had some "issues," that's not exactly a big deal. The same thing happened with Medicade way-back-when, and it turned out just fine. Like any legislation with deliverables, it'll be a rolling series of "upgrades" to work out the kinks. 

---

As for the increases seen in monthly premiums...they're due to the expanded healthy mandates. Before the ACA you could pick and choose coverage options from private insurance companies, selecting the options that fit your budget. This lowered premiums for healthy people, which was great until all hell—or life—broke loose.

Sure you could save money on your monthly premiums before the ACA, but heaven forbid you suffered a random heartache, stroke, mental health change or major accident. Then all of a sudden your cheap insurance plan was worthless, made even worse by the fact that before the ACA you would quickly burn through your care insurance cap if care exceeded the paltry threshold set by the low cost plan—assuming the care needed was even covered.

As sad as that scenario sounds, it's extremely common. With the lower monthly premiums, out of pocket expenses for anything major—even the diagnosis—is often exorbitant, and to this day Medical Costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US.

And, while bankruptcy crappy for the individual—who may or may not still require long term care and rehabilitation—medical providers won't see payment either. Which means they'll inevitably have to jack up costs to make good on the default.

Meaning, while people are bitching and moaning about the increase in monthly premiums, what they fail to remember is that health insurance isn't just for "sick people," but rather it's the personal golden insurance parachute we all need, but rather think we don't need...until something catastrophic happens.

In the long run, the ACA's mandate changes will actual alleviate some of the fiscal burden Hospitals feel when they have to eat unpaid medical service costs. While some people like to complain about illegal immigrants and poor people not paying their medical bills, the truth is that a large percentage of medical bill deadbeats are average Americans who elected to select a cheap monthly premium and eat fast food every day.

The ACA is FAR from perfect—I really do HATE the insurance plan aspect—but the Act does successfully address some major problems that have plagued healthcare for decades.
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Abele

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2013, 09:40:04 AM »

I'm glad I'm still covered through work. If I had to get one of the new ACA plans I would have to pay 9 times as much as I do now per month for comparable coverage. Even with the tax credits (which you don't get until you file your taxes) it would still be 6 times what I pay now through work. Sure I could get a cheaper plan, but my deductible would be through the friggin' roof. NOw if I made twice as much as I do now, I wouldn't gripe, but if I were to have to pay for my insurance I would either have to go homeless or starve. Of course, since I am at lower income level than I'd like I believe that I don't have to get one of their ridiculous plans as it would take too much of take home pay. It is actually cheaper for me to pay the penalty over the next three years if work already didn't cover me.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 09:44:04 AM by Abele »
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TigerShark

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2013, 12:35:12 PM »

That was the first one and we had a lot more scurry our way in the meantime.

Except those numbers are now at a record low (and have been for quite some time.) It might have something to do with the fact that America is not quite the land of opportunity, or that the numbers coincide with a dwindling middle class income bracket and devaluation of the dollar in relation to foreign currencies...

Not sure where you live, but the immigrants' families are 8 - 10 people, each. We have entire cities in So Cal populated 80%+ by Mexicans and other Central Americans / Caribbeans. So this "record low" is only on paper and only for people 3,000 miles away in DC where they don't have to deal with the kidnappings, drug mules, rapes, assaults, murders, cheap labor and lowered educational standards due to "ESL" classes qualifying you for graduation.


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...The ACA does have some proper benefits for all Americans, but it was the health insurance programs that really screwed the pooch.

You're missing something HUGE there. You can't mandate "no caps on coverage" or "X and Y" without "Z" happening. These plans are carefully counted by actuaries to earn a percentage of profit. They need to maintain a risk pool in case of catastrophic loss.

By changing the lifetime maximums, other benefits NEEDED to fall away to counterbalance the cost to the consumer. You can't say "incur an unlimited cost" and expect prices not to go up. lol  The insurance company isn't going to take the hit just out of good will and charity.

They had this planned ahead of time; a sudden and shocking decrease in benefits without a reduction in premium. Why do you think they had three lobbyists for each House and Senate member in 2006 - 2007 trying to get this lumbering dinosaur passed? Each lobbyist was paid an average of $80,000/year. That's how much it was worth for them to be able to get these awful, worthless plans through the various state DOIs.


Quote
For example, say I decide to change my current health insurance to a silver plan from the ACA (the defacto minimum for someone in my income bracket.) After calculating the rough costs I'd be paying an almost identical premium per year—after tax breaks/incentives—for the same coverage. Where is my incentive to switch over to a new provider? That's one of the main drawbacks to the rough roll out, and why it was/is so important to the ACA's personal insurance plans.

And where is this nice subsidy coming from? We're in a $16 trillion deficit. The answer is more taxes on medical devices, "cadillac" health plans, tanning salons, etc. More tax burden on more business owners, which leads to higher prices for everyone.

Quote
Sure you could save money on your monthly premiums before the ACA, but heaven forbid you suffered a random heartache, stroke, mental health change or major accident. Then all of a sudden your cheap insurance plan was worthless, made even worse by the fact that before the ACA you would quickly burn through your care insurance cap if care exceeded the paltry threshold set by the low cost plan—assuming the care needed was even covered.

The plan I have now has coverage equal to the Gold plan, but with the cost of the Silver option. It's being cancelled and I have to now pay an additional $1140 per year in doctor and prescription costs. I don't get a subsidy from the government because of my income level. So I should be thankful that in the case I get cancer, I won't have a lifetime max?

That already had a solution: continuity of coverage. You jump to a new insurer while you have coverage so the preexisting conditions don't apply. People are just to lazy to read the laws and plain details and take advantage of the benefits. I worked in health insurance for 5 years. You get folks going to the emergency room for a sniffle and wondering why they have a $1000 bill coming. Nobody read their plan, nobody investigates the law. It's the government acting like a nanny for the lazy.


Quote
In the long run, the ACA's mandate changes will actual alleviate some of the fiscal burden Hospitals feel when they have to eat unpaid medical service costs. While some people like to complain about illegal immigrants and poor people not paying their medical bills, the truth is that a large percentage of medical bill deadbeats are average Americans who elected to select a cheap monthly premium and eat fast food every day.

You're misinformed here. Hospitals problems aren't JUST unpaid services from "poor people." It's the 15 million immigrants we have in this country who give fake names in emergency rooms and walk out. It's the insurance companies whose underwriters deny claims for "medically allowable" procedures. They look at your bill and decide what you need/don't need and choose to not pay based on policy parameters. The hospital renders services, some of which aren't covered, and the consumer is stuck with the rest.

The PPACA didn't do ANYTHING to address this. It just made sure that more people had garbage insurance which costs them more out-of-pocket than simply NOT having insurance. Unless they get cancer or have a baby. Then you're better off. But we already had that in the US. They're called HIPAA plans, Medicaid, etc., which accepted patients with (2) letters of denial from insurance companies. Again. Laziness.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 12:35:37 PM by TigerShark »
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Blacknova

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2013, 03:25:27 PM »

Whatever happened to

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
"

It would seem that in the land of the free, some are more free than others to enjoy her protection and benefits.
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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2013, 04:14:36 PM »

That statement apparently doesn't apply in California.
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Dread Moores

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2013, 04:46:04 PM »

Or anywhere else those evil Central Americans and Caribbeans invade. Panama and Barbados...the hidden threat.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 04:47:20 PM by Dread Moores »
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Blacknova

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2013, 05:05:50 PM »

It is no different here at the moment, apparently a few boatloads of starving terrified people warrant a full military response and an abrogation of our duties under the refuge treaty. In the era of Fox style news, appealing to the basest instincts of the wilfully ignorant masses is the height of politics.

As to health care, here we all get a minimum standard and all but the lowest paid folk pay a small levy.  If you have private cover, and earn under a certain amount, you get a tax deduction. If you don't have private cover, the main difference is in having longer waits for elective surgery. 
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TigerShark

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2013, 06:29:59 PM »

Whatever happened to

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
"

It would seem that in the land of the free, some are more free than others to enjoy her protection and benefits.

That poem is not an official statement of the United States. It was a poem used during the statue's dedication by Emma Lazerus.
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TigerShark

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Re: Obamacare (A.K.A. Affordable Care Act)
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2013, 06:32:37 PM »

That statement apparently doesn't apply in California.

It's easy to be charitable with other peoples' money.
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