OBT Forum

I specifically used the word 'group,' i.e. A collection of like minded individuals. The Germans who joined Hitler's political Nazi party were fascists, the Chinese who ran with Mao considered themselves Communists. When a 'group' of politically like-minded individuals state a desire to bring 'Christian values' to their proposed legislation then for better or worse they've taken the role-as a group-as ambassadors of Christianity.

If the premise of their message is Christian-even a Christian message you don't necessarily believe or agree with-doesn't make it any less Christian. That's why we have innumerable Protestant faiths.

Separation should be just that. No special privilage, no special rights, no official mention, for any religious group.

As to TS's second to last comment, an invocation of Godwin's Law would say that this conversation is done.

Explain how it does work.

In corporations, people who work all the time and do good job don't get rewarded because their bosses expect that from them, because the corporation as a whole can't increase the wage line in their accounts.
There are always exception to that but in the modern world, it works like that in most corporations.

And this is why you keep religion out of politics.

http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/11/21/oklahoma-gov-mary-fallin-denies-benefits-to-all-soldiers-just-to-discriminate-against-gay-ones#

Sorry again, but an atheist doe not believe, full stop.  They don't "believe on not believing" they just don't believe. An important point to consider.

You cannot avoid the interaction and inclusion of religious values within a state's framework.

Not true. Removing the part of a state's framework that deals with the regulation of its citizenry actions also removes (most) moral and religious quandaries from the governing equation.

The old adage of keeping govt. 'out of the home' is an apt example of a potential working fix.

   

Tigershark, just because I say I don't believe, does not mean I have a theology.  It really is sad that those of a religious bent must believe that others must believe in order to feel comfortable with the universe.  I don't believe in ghosts, or fairys, or of the dark shadows of the bush, I don't believe people ascend, descend or reincarnate, I don't believe in allah,yaweh, god, jesus, buddah, thor, apollo or any of the other host of deities that folk have managed to conjure up over the years.   

I JUST DON'T BELIEVE.  I would deeply appreciate it if you would quit saying otherwise, for I know myself.

My world is founded on rational evidence, on the care of my fellow humans, whatever they believe or don't, on the basis that we must all be treated the same and that no group's social or religious doctrine is better than any others and that a truly secular and atheist viewpoint is the safest course to stability and fair treatment for all.  I base my actions to others on being kind to all, unless you harm me and then all bets are off, not on a preconceived theology that dictate that if someone is not like me or does not do as I do they must be excluded.

We just are.  If that scares others so much that they need a myth with continuity issues that make BT look organized to help them get by day to day, then so be it, I truly feel sorry for them.

Oh and one more thing, science is not a belief system, science is evidence based, religion is faith based as it has no evidence to support it.  If you look up the scientific method you can gain a better understanding of the difference between the two.  Science needs evidence, evidence that can be repeatedly tested in order to be proven true.  Faith just needs you to believe in the tooth fairy.