OBT Forum
General BattleTech => Alternate Universe => Salient Horizon => Topic started by: Takiro on April 26, 2014, 06:19:17 PM
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Hey gang, I just wanted to start a thread discussing the Free Guilds and what exactly they are in Clan society. Now I am aware that as of now they have been retconned from canon as an error made by Focht (see the link below).
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,16102.0.html
But for the sake of this discussion let’s just say the Free Guilds do exist and Focht didn’t screw up. What do we know?
Khan Elias Crichell proposed as part of Operation Revival, that in accordance with writings from the Kerensky Archives, that the ilClan assume control of the Free Guilds, which are the merchants, techs, scientists, and other lower castes whose affiliation is to Clan society and not to one Clan. (JFSB pg 21)
Khan Crichell acknowledged the logistical concerns of Commander Jessica Buhallin of Iota Galaxy and Logistics Overseer Tanner Calbot only so far as to order Falcon bankers to contract a few extra transports from the Free Guilds. The Free Guilds, in return for the Falcons' long-standing disdain for their caste, charged that Clan extraordinarily high fees for each ship, while giving the other invasion Clans a far more reasonable rate. (JFSB pg 21)
Free Guilds appears in the Index of the Invading Clans Sourcebook (JFSB pg 21)
The ilClan would assume control of the “Free Guilds†– those elements of the civilian castes that form part of Clan society but do not belong to a specific Clan.(CWoK pg. 18)
So I have always wondered who the Free Guilds are and how/why would the Clans tolerate their existence? The development of Spacer Cultures like the Belters in the Terran system and those mentioned in Historical Operation Klondike got me thinking – could the Free Guilds be Clan Spacers?
It kind of makes sense to me given the terrestrial ‘Mech perspective of the Clans and the BattleTech universe in general. Most everything is ground based and off world societies don’t get much play. Given the only thing we know about this group is that they are an independent or autonomous faction within the Clans and they loan out ships to others I think the Spacer ideal could really work.
I got a bunch of idea seeds I have jotted down for a possible fanon history of this interesting Clan faction but I’d like to know what you think first.
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Matt had ideas about them.
Why go for Spacers? Why not go for a percentage of the total population directly under the orders of the ilKhan and working for the Clans as a whole?
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Do we know who's responsible for maintaining and expanding the Clans' system of automated HPGs? (Mentioned in Explorer Corp, I think, if nowhere else.)
That might fall under the Free Guilds' umbrella.
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Matt had ideas about them.
Why go for Spacers? Why not go for a percentage of the total population directly under the orders of the ilKhan and working for the Clans as a whole?
Not a bad idea... Until there's no ilKhan
Do we know who's responsible for maintaining and expanding the Clans' system of automated HPGs? (Mentioned in Explorer Corp, I think, if nowhere else.)
That might fall under the Free Guilds' umbrella.
I think individual Clans carry the responsibility for that you want an HPG build it you want to use mine a trial will do. Exploring seemed to be left down to the Sea Fox and Nova Cats during the Golden Century. I guess you could say the Blood Spirits and Cloud Cobras did a bit as well with the Tainte worlds and the Blood Spirits last stand (can't remember name)
The rest appeared to be happy to fight over what was left
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The Clans maintain an automated HPG network, distributed widely across their part of the periphery. I suppose individual clans could have created different pieces of the network and then Trialed or traded for transmission rights with the others.
PS: I just checked Explorer Corp. It doesn't say who's responsible for the network.
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Whilst the Free Guilds may have been dropped, having some kind of 'meta organisation' to do a lot of the greasing of Clan society makes sense. I would guess that for the most part, each Clan looks after its own HPG net in their space, but you'd then have multiple HPG's on a single world which is expensive and inefficient as you're having to share most worlds with other Clans.
You'd need something like a 'Free Guilds' to run and administer things like oil refineries etc because these are large, expensive and vulnerable installations and if one Clan controlled them all they could cause issues for the others which in turn would spark Trials which could damage the facility in this example. In return the Free Guild freely trades X resource with ALL the Clans should they need it.
Perhaps have them be loyal to the Grand Council and thus not influenced (ostendibly..) by any one Clan and if there's an ilKhan the Free Guild is loyal to them who is in turn answerable to the Grand Council.
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The Hall of Khans / Grand Council facilities might need to be staffed by neutral parties.
Is any of the Exodus Fleet still in unclaimed (or otherwise neutral or shared/Council ownership) orbital caches?
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Whilst the Free Guilds may have been dropped,
Stop right there, what if they weren't dropped! What if they got Reaved?! This Clan without Warriors seems like the perfect breeding place for the Society and its ideals. Not saying every Guilder was in on the conspiracy but the Clans went nuts anyway. Perhaps we no longer hear of the Free Guilds cause they were annihilated. ;)
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That would make sense. RE them being a breeding ground for the Society.
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That would make sense. RE them being a breeding ground for the Society.
Yeah, I think it makes a ton of sense and really can change the discussion from a dropped idea to a past one. So if we agree on the ending (canon wise anyway) can we address their beginning?
Why go for Spacers? Why not go for a percentage of the total population directly under the orders of the ilKhan and working for the Clans as a whole?
Good questions Ice, that bring us back to the start of the concept and to be clear the Guilds could embrace both a terrestrial contingent as well as a spacer culture. Don't think one bans the other.
1. Spacers of the InnerSphere. This culture exists where the Clans came from and in a spacefaring society why wouldn't it here? I could also add the higher tech base of the Clans and their travel among the Homeworlds (which themselves are poorly habitable) necissate a more vigorous space infrastructure. Think IceShips and basic terraforming supplies needed to keep these planets habitable.
2. Long Journey that never ended. It is my contention that the long journey from the InnerSphere to the Pentagon Worlds would have forever changed some people. Might some of those embrace a spacer mindset and their style of living over this period to the point where they no longer wish to live on planet? From naval families split during the Coup and were too horrorified to ever go back to folks who work there for a living to those who just plain old like the experience better and never want to leave. I think this is very plausible.
3. Evacuation of the Pentagon. The death of Alexander Kerensky was a sudden event as was the Second Exodus of his son. As you will see in my next point Pentagon spacers did already exist and Nicholas would need help to evacute 'loyalists' from the Pentagon to Strana Mechty. This is the event where my spacers earn their place in Clan society helping ferry away (think Dunkirk style) Nicky's civilians and equipment while his military assets were occupied in a fighting withdraw. Recognizing the continuing value of these Free Guilders to the Clans as a whole they became something of a 21st Clan to me.
4. Spacers during the Pentagon Civil War. Thanks to the Historical we see evidence of many of these civilizations especially upon their return to via Operation Klondike.
5. Canon Evidence. From the shared Strana Mechty dropship yards (Union and Overlord IIC) to their mentions in the Jade Falcon SB which has to do with shipping to mention that the Jaguars need Grand Council approval to go into a naval cache to activate replace ships after the Mongoose Absorption could indicate as marauder648 suggests an existence of a group to safeguard fragile facilities, space facilities. As the Succession Wars showed in the InnerSphere these are extremely vulnerable to big damage.
What do you think??
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I like these ideas, perhaps because divvying up the spacer's who supported them would cause ructions and arguments and been a logistic nightmare the spacers and their ilk who supported Nicky K in Exodus II electric boogaloo and KLONDYKE are granted a form of autononmy. Their loyalty is to the civilization he wants to build and to the ilKhan and Grand Council. In return they are protected by the warriors and their industrial endeavours and resources will be traded for by the Clans. They have to impliment some form of Caste system, sans the Warriors.
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Thank you, don't forget that when the Clans are forming these fragile space industries under the care of the Guild and production shared evenly with all Clans are the last of their kind. Nothing else remains of the space infrastructure bought in with the Exodus. Placing these cllective assets in the Guilds care as a reserve that the Clans could not touch individually would be wise and necessary.
I wanted to thank you for the next question which was born out of your comments yesterday. Did the decline in the ilKhan office mark the start of isolation for the Free Guilds?
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Thank you, don't forget that when the Clans are forming these fragile space industries under the care of the Guild and production shared evenly with all Clans are the last of their kind. Nothing else remains of the space infrastructure bought in with the Exodus. Placing these cllective assets in the Guilds care as a reserve that the Clans could not touch individually would be wise and necessary.
I wanted to thank you for the next question which was born out of your comments yesterday. Did the decline in the ilKhan office mark the start of isolation for the Free Guilds?
Hrm....probably not. Remember the ilKhan was answerable to the Grand Council, only one ilKhan was above that, Nicky K himself. And when he got a gauss slug in the face, the role was forever diminished and changed from being dictator to headmaster/headmistress trying to control 20 unruly childeren.
I'd say that because the successive ilKhans or Grand Council seemed to have not really stamped down on the Free Guilds then they'd have no problem remaining loyal. If they started putting pressure on them then they'd probably leave but the Khans are not stupid enough to risk loosing their orbital facilities and experience or the majority of their asteroid mining operations etc. You could have even has Nicky K swearing that they would NEVER be tampered with and thus basically making that a law that the other Khans would be unwilling to ever tamper with or go against.
Basically the Free Guilds have a good thing going on. Trade on tap, protection from Dark Caste, and they sit beyond the politics and squabbling of the Clans.
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Trying to write their history and it is sort of though cause after the Pentagon up to the start of Revival is a blank slate. The corruption of ilKhan Tobias Khatib would be a usable bullet point to focus on. Conflict with the other Clans is difficult as the have no warriors.
I did plan for a Guildmaster as their leader, a Guild Council as the law maker, and a Guild Keshik to police them composed of warriors of all the Clans.
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Aye perhaps Tobias ordered the Free Guild to funnel more resources to his Clan and they just did so, ilKhan after all and after he was removed then they came in for a bit more oversight? A Guildmaster would be their Khan equivalent, but would have no vote on the Council.
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The Guildmaster (perhaps a direct decendant of their founder) would just head the Guilds and while like a Khan has no military or police authority whatsoever. He may interact with the Loremaster of the Clans or the ilKhan but would have no place in the Hall of Khans. This is an all civilian organization is policed by Guild Keshik which is charged with security and often patrols their space. Not prestigious at all (think Katyusha Keshik but in space) they are likely third rate warriors with ancient equipment.
Tobias could go for money or back a Cloud Cobra scheme. When were the Tanite Worlds discovered?? Nah, no good there is a 20 year difference here. Perhaps something to do with territory, technology, hmm.....
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Why not make them a kind of elite for the non Warriors? A reserve born of (we can discuss that later on) that can recruit in every Clans with Trials being held every ...
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Could you expand on that concept Ice? Pretty hard for the Guilds to Trial for anything since they have no warriors and are not a Clan per say but at the same time are Clan. Let me say first off that the Clans have little regard for human liberty and thus people themselves could be a commodity hence trafficked like any other good.
I am envisioning the Free Guilds as the Strategic Reserve of the Clans with certain rare commodities kept in their care for the good of all. This would range from space industries to warships (perhaps they maintain the mothball fleets), to germanium, and even drinking water. No Clan can draw from them without the approval of the Grand Council or the agreement of the Guildmaster.
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I doubt you could opt out of the way of the Clans without becoming a Bandit/Dark Caste.
But perhaps the Free guilds are akin to the Sol system Belters. They are not Clan (no warriors, not even police), but they also are because they have the caste system and provide for all as a kind of background meta thing.
Of course other Clans can and do trade otuside of them, there's a far greater risk/reward payoff with such things but also a greater chance to big up your clan and shame those you dupe/do better than.
This is where the SHarks get a lot of their power. The Free Guilds could be in turn limited in what they can trade and the like, oh sure they can trade you several hundred thousand tons of ore in return for x amount of grain.
But you need to make the guns that ore's for yourself. Or get it off someone else.
You need a fusion reactor, trade the materials for it from the Free Guild. And then buildit yourself and hold onto it yourself. If you can't hold onto it, that's not the Free Guilds failing, that's yours.
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But perhaps the Free guilds are akin to the Sol system Belters. They are not Clan (no warriors, not even police), but they also are because they have the caste system and provide for all as a kind of background meta thing.
This is what I was thinking. I've been trying to find details on the Strana Mechty system to see if it has belts or moons were this faction can take root. I doubt they have much beyond the Strana Mechty system like the Belters as well.
Also I was thinking in stark contrast to the Clans that the Guilders live extraordinarily long lives. Plus they tend to be rather cold and aloof folks.
Of course other Clans can and do trade otuside of them, there's a far greater risk/reward payoff with such things but also a greater chance to big up your clan and shame those you dupe/do better than.
This is where the SHarks get a lot of their power. The Free Guilds could be in turn limited in what they can trade and the like, oh sure they can trade you several hundred thousand tons of ore in return for x amount of grain.
But you need to make the guns that ore's for yourself. Or get it off someone else.
You need a fusion reactor, trade the materials for it from the Free Guild. And then buildit yourself and hold onto it yourself. If you can't hold onto it, that's not the Free Guilds failing, that's yours.
I think we are on the same page here. Only things the Grand Council would have to sign off on (like Warship reactivation) and what could the Guilders do with individual Clans?
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Yeah the Grand Council would have to sign off on 'big stuff' like pulling ships out of any shared naval caches *faint sounds of Snow Raven screeches in the background* but otherwise they'd probably have a kind of quota system that would be agreed upon by the Grand council to produce X amounts of resources and then this could be trialled for by the various Clans as a kind of winners pot.
Yes we have 18,000 tons of Endo-Steel ready as per requirement.
[Ghost bear] We bid for 4,500 tons of this allocation and offer X amount of Y resource.
[Smoke Jaguar] Pah! The Bears are being greedy, we challenge them for this bid!
who ever wins that Trial then gets the 4,500 tons of Endo-steel.
This way big industrial stuff like orbital facilities are not fought over too much as their loss would affect ALL the Clans. A Clans ground based production facilities however are free game but rarely fought over due to them being huge vital facilities and any Trial for them would be pretty much akin to a full on test of strength between the two competing Clans and would probably involve a full Galaxy if not more on each side. (See the Battle of Tokasha and the Battle of Niles, both were HUGE clashes).
And yeah having them be standoffish makes sense, as they have very little contact with people outside of the Guild. They could even start going like the Belters in thigny....space show..Roccinante...thing...where the Belters in that are physically adapting to living in space and the like (taller, longer limbed, not really suited for gravity) and they deliberately keep that distance to very pointedly NOT get involved with any Clan shenanigans or politics.
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A qouta system for strategic resources such the Union IIC and Overlord IIC made at Strana Mechty shipyards (mentioned in TRO 3057) would work. I see production as being split evenly among the Clans unless as you point out very correctly that it is either traded away willingly or trialed for.
I envision the Clans dependence and interaction with the Free Guilds declining after the Pentagon Civil War has been concluded. The Clans begin to amass their own resources and grow outside of Strana Mechty where the Guild does not. Hard for them to leave home so to speak. Instead they are left there as a remnant of the Clans beginning which of course leads to some wondering why we still need them. I see the Guild as largely isolated and not really thought of until the Outbound Light when the Clans return to the InnerSphere really shakes things up. Then we get the Jade Falcon dealings with transport. Which brings up another question? How does each Clan feel about the Free Guilds??
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That makes sense, RE expanding and seeing the Free Guilds as a bit of a museium piece until Outbound light pops in and the Clans need every resource they can get their hands on.
As for how other Clans would treat them. I assume they're all basically freebirths and none of them are warriors (but they're probably formidable pilots) so it depends on how the Clan in question views Freeborn Merchants. But this is in turn cushioned by the distance and lack of interaction with them as i'm guessing that 99% of Trueborns would never ever interact with a Guilder outside of being on the bridge of a WarShip when they take a delivery or something. And it depends on the era. Early on they were a vital, needful thing but as the Clans and their population base grew they depended less on them despite the regular tithes that would come in without stop.
This would grow more tiresome and looked down upon until A Wild Outbound Light has appeared! At which point its a case of ALL the clans going GIMME GIMME!!!! for resources or transport.
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Could you expand on that concept Ice? Pretty hard for the Guilds to Trial for anything since they have no warriors and are not a Clan per say but at the same time are Clan. Let me say first off that the Clans have little regard for human liberty and thus people themselves could be a commodity hence trafficked like any other good.
I meant people doing Trials of Position for a position in this Free Guilds. Even if reserves are not popular with the Clans, linking it to the Second Exodus and to Nicholas would give them prestige and the right to "recruit" from any Clans but only from the non Warriors.
This could also serve as a breath in the system, allowing the non Warriors to do something worth being remembered too.
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That makes sense, RE expanding and seeing the Free Guilds as a bit of a museium piece until Outbound light pops in and the Clans need every resource they can get their hands on.
As for how other Clans would treat them. I assume they're all basically freebirths and none of them are warriors (but they're probably formidable pilots) so it depends on how the Clan in question views Freeborn Merchants. But this is in turn cushioned by the distance and lack of interaction with them as i'm guessing that 99% of Trueborns would never ever interact with a Guilder outside of being on the bridge of a WarShip when they take a delivery or something. And it depends on the era. Early on they were a vital, needful thing but as the Clans and their population base grew they depended less on them despite the regular tithes that would come in without stop.
This would grow more tiresome and looked down upon until A Wild Outbound Light has appeared! At which point its a case of ALL the clans going GIMME GIMME!!!! for resources or transport.
Not only are they all freeborn (even though that term may not include necessary genetic modification to adapt to space and arranged coupling, etc.) but the long lived part is particular galling to the Warriors of Kerensky. They live fast and die with honor but the Guild in particular have long life spans (at least how I envision them) and despite your piloting assessment (they maybe the best spacers of the Clans outside Snow Raven) earn no glory. They exist only to serve the Warrior Caste of the Clans as a whole. This is why I am going to focus on what they have done to further the Clans as a whole in their write up. Showcase their value! But your right that the warriors generally look down on them and are disgusted by their age.
I might question if any Trueborn, save the ilKhan or Loremaster of the Clans, actually deals with them at all. Guild Keshik which I was thinking about more today is likely all freeborn at this point but perhaps some are old Trueborns exiled here. I was also thinking that perhaps this Keshik (Infantry and Aerospace, probably no Mechs at all) would be formed after the Annihilation of the Not Named Clan as a security procedure to make sure no one ever again hijacked these assets. Likely armed with all Star League equipment perhaps retrofitted with some Clan tech they may on the surface be seen as presitgious but like Katyusha and Ebon Keshik be more of a punishment in reality.
What do you think about this qoute from the Jade Falcon Sourcebook pg 21?
The Free Guilds, in return for the Falcons' long-standing disdain for their caste, charged that Clan extraordinarily high fees for each ship, while giving the other invasion Clans a far more reasonable rate.
Certainly sounds like the Falcons, and Jaguars too, would not appreciate them. Also how would they work around Grand Council oversight in this matter??
I meant people doing Trials of Position for a position in this Free Guilds. Even if reserves are not popular with the Clans, linking it to the Second Exodus and to Nicholas would give them prestige and the right to "recruit" from any Clans but only from the non Warriors. This could also serve as a breath in the system, allowing the non Warriors to do something worth being remembered too.
I see the Guild as more of a 'closed' system Ice (i.e. not recruiting from the Clans but having their own original starting population which has grown) but like I stated before lower caste members are likely traded as commodities by Clans as a matter of business.
I doubt the Clans would want their best and brightest lower caste scientists for example getting away.
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I see the Guild as more of a 'closed' system Ice (i.e. not recruiting from the Clans but having their own original starting population which has grown) but like I stated before lower caste members are likely traded as commodities by Clans as a matter of business.
I doubt the Clans would want their best and brightest lower caste scientists for example getting away.
No wonder they lost :P The system worked with the greater good in mind but they forgot that.
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Yes they represent the greater good of the Clans whose might makes right philosophy prevents them from having a real seat at the table. I am sure that the ilClan proposal as part of Operation Revival was just the beginning of the end for the Free Guilds. Once someone calls for your absorption they gig was up. I'm sure Society infiltration was prevalent here as the Guild never wanted to be anything but what it was the strategic reserve of the Clans. The union that held the Clans together was all but dead following the death of the Jaguars as even the Grand Council's authority broke down.
The other Clans just shoot bye the Guild so to speak in terms of development but even the Grand Council may not have known the depths of their civilization's growth among the stars.
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Not only are they all freeborn (even though that term may not include necessary genetic modification to adapt to space and arranged coupling, etc.) but the long lived part is particular galling to the Warriors of Kerensky. They live fast and die with honor but the Guild in particular have long life spans (at least how I envision them) and despite your piloting assessment (they maybe the best spacers of the Clans outside Snow Raven) earn no glory. They exist only to serve the Warrior Caste of the Clans as a whole. This is why I am going to focus on what they have done to further the Clans as a whole in their write up. Showcase their value! But your right that the warriors generally look down on them and are disgusted by their age.
This makes a great deal of sense, there's probably some genetic augmentation to survive the rigours of space but nothing so extreme as the Belters have adopted as this might be seen as a 'perversion' of the human form and considering the Clans get twitchy when you mess up language, I doubt they'd approve of severe changes to the human form.
As you said they exist only to serve the Warrior Castes of the Clans as a whole, and in a Warrior's eyes, they earn no honor or glory and are probably little better than labourours. But 99% of Warriors would never ever interact with the Guild outside of those who see them when they make deliveries etc or are escorting the Khan/saKhan when they meet with them to discuss a trade. Something tells me that the Warrior's might well be aware of the Guilds but that's it and they're more widely known amongst the Merchants, Scientists and Labor castes.
I might question if any Trueborn, save the ilKhan or Loremaster of the Clans, actually deals with them at all. Guild Keshik which I was thinking about more today is likely all freeborn at this point but perhaps some are old Trueborns exiled here. I was also thinking that perhaps this Keshik (Infantry and Aerospace, probably no Mechs at all) would be formed after the Annihilation of the Not Named Clan as a security procedure to make sure no one ever again hijacked these assets. Likely armed with all Star League equipment perhaps retrofitted with some Clan tech they may on the surface be seen as presitgious but like Katyusha and Ebon Keshik be more of a punishment in reality.
This is a possibility, perhaps some old Trueborns are given the 'honour' of acting as an ambassador to the Guild along with a small staff and again its 'prestigious' but its really a punishment.
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This makes a great deal of sense, there's probably some genetic augmentation to survive the rigours of space but nothing so extreme as the Belters have adopted as this might be seen as a 'perversion' of the human form and considering the Clans get twitchy when you mess up language, I doubt they'd approve of severe changes to the human form.
Yeah nothing too extreme, as you point out the self anointed guardians of humanity (the Clans) would have a real problem with aliens like themselves. :D They are pretty conservative, almost reactionary, if you think about it in many ways.
I was toying with the idea of calling the Guilders the 'Spaceborn' but that might be a bit much.
Still the Guilds would pretty much have a 'Free' hand in self governance. I was thinking more today about the Guildmaster and how I see succession proceeding. The main founder I simply called Markus (no last names here) and his successors take on a variation of that name (Kamrus, Arkmus, Rukmas, etc.). Also I see his line as something just short of hereditary akin to how the Director-General of the Terran Hegemony was elected. Meaning the Guild Council elects one of his descendants either through tradition with some experience necessary - say they have to serve as a Caste Leader (Scientist-General, Merchant Factor, Master Technician, Senior Laborer).
As you said they exist only to serve the Warrior Castes of the Clans as a whole, and in a Warrior's eyes, they earn no honor or glory and are probably little better than labourours. But 99% of Warriors would never ever interact with the Guild outside of those who see them when they make deliveries etc or are escorting the Khan/saKhan when they meet with them to discuss a trade. Something tells me that the Warrior's might well be aware of the Guilds but that's it and they're more widely known amongst the Merchants, Scientists and Labor castes.
That is an interesting idea. Do you think that the Smoke Jaguar lower caste revolt on Londerholm was inspired by the Free Guilds? Or better question do Clans like the Jaguars who fear or loathe their social lessers seek to limit or ban contact with the Free Guilds? I'm sure like Ice suggested some lower castes would likely try to escape there if they knew of their relative freedom. This sounds like a good story seed for an incident with them. Lower caste escapees a historical example.
This is a possibility, perhaps some old Trueborns are given the 'honour' of acting as an ambassador to the Guild along with a small staff and again its 'prestigious' but its really a punishment.
I like that idea for Guild Keshik - ambassadors more like overseers from the Clans is sort of what they are.
On another topic which I can place here thanks to your thoughts on piloting, what do you think of the Guild sponsoring a race? Racing was an idea I was throwing around recently in my head (admittedly as a Davion Outback pastime of Mech racing with NASCAR parallels) but it works here too. What if the Free Guilds prize sporting event is a race, perhaps again inspired by a historically event like the Pentagon Run or something? It would give their expert space pilots something to compete against each other in (Clan like) with no weapons of course.
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I like your ideas for their leadership, perhaps not the naming one but yes it could be passed from person to person and it could be a descendent of the original founder of them who helped Nicky. They take in 'outsiders' to keep the genetics going and not be all inbread but yeah its basically a 'Royal Family'
I like the idea of there being an 'out' for some lower castes into the Guild, either perhaps as a kind of reverse tithe (need to mix up that genetic pool) or perhaps as something very very clandestine, a kind of slave railway kind of thing that offers a very dangerous out for those who want to leave their Caste etc.
I like that idea for Guild Keshik - ambassadors more like overseers from the Clans is sort of what they are.
I'd say they're not overseer's, rather 'observers' who might report back to the saKhan or leader of the Watch, they could even be a Watch agent themselves.
On another topic which I can place here thanks to your thoughts on piloting, what do you think of the Guild sponsoring a race? Racing was an idea I was throwing around recently in my head (admittedly as a Davion Outback pastime of Mech racing with NASCAR parallels) but it works here too. What if the Free Guilds prize sporting event is a race, perhaps again inspired by a historically event like the Pentagon Run or something? It would give their expert space pilots something to compete against each other in (Clan like) with no weapons of course.
Perhaps such a race could even be their 'trial of position', like how someone could try for a Trial of Position to get into the Scientist Caste by doing a PHD in X time or something. It could also be used as a trial against the Clans if they so chose to do some kind of trial to make them feel better.
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I like your ideas for their leadership, perhaps not the naming one but yes it could be passed from person to person and it could be a descendent of the original founder of them who helped Nicky. They take in 'outsiders' to keep the genetics going and not be all inbread but yeah its basically a 'Royal Family.'
I see them arranging matches/couplings/marriages in much the same fashion as Clan Freeborns. I'll have to think of a new naming convention for their Guildmaster then, any suggestions? I wonder who the first arranged match would be and why?? Hmm, story possibilities...
I like the idea of there being an 'out' for some lower castes into the Guild, either perhaps as a kind of reverse tithe (need to mix up that genetic pool) or perhaps as something very very clandestine, a kind of slave railway kind of thing that offers a very dangerous out for those who want to leave their Caste etc.
As I said, human trafficking is not above the Clans but I wonder how any Terrestrial Lower Caste would or could make the transition to the Guild? It may take a certain mindset to adapt here that many just do not possess.
I'd say they're not overseer's, rather 'observers' who might report back to the saKhan or leader of the Watch, they could even be a Watch agent themselves.
You say potato, I say patato…. I could certainly see them referred to as observers. I wonder if this is a reward assignment for Police Clusters within the Clan? These third rate Clan militia might welcome the assignment.
Perhaps such a race could even be their 'trial of position', like how someone could try for a Trial of Position to get into the Scientist Caste by doing a PHD in X time or something. It could also be used as a trial against the Clans if they so chose to do some kind of trial to make them feel better.
I don't know about that as I was thinking more of entertainment than an actual ritual competition.
Another thought I had today questioned if these long lived spaceman would even see the value in such a quick event. Even a marathon might seem speedy to them. A question of mindset I guess.
On another tangent - could the Free Guild actually date back before the Clans? It sounds like a very Union type of organization perhaps composed of skilled tradesman that were in limited supply between the First and Second Exodus. Perhaps they were originally put together during the Star League in Exile days and then transitioned to their modern Clan successor?
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I like your ideas for their leadership, perhaps not the naming one but yes it could be passed from person to person and it could be a descendent of the original founder of them who helped Nicky. They take in 'outsiders' to keep the genetics going and not be all inbread but yeah its basically a 'Royal Family.'
I see them arranging matches/couplings/marriages in much the same fashion as Clan Freeborns. I'll have to think of a new naming convention for their Guildmaster then, any suggestions? I wonder who the first arranged match would be and why?? Hmm, story possibilities...
Well let me throw out a few names Director General (ties back to the old TH), Overseer, Guild Steward
On another tangent - could the Free Guild actually date back before the Clans? It sounds like a very Union type of organization perhaps composed of skilled tradesman that were in limited supply between the First and Second Exodus. Perhaps they were originally put together during the Star League in Exile days and then transitioned to their modern Clan successor?
Very easy, this is most likely where they got their start in the clans. Remember most what was taken was the military assets and families. I can see the skilled in the trades other then war kinda linking up in a "Union" because well we all speak the "same language" but maybe it not the same as the soldiers. AK, okay maybe his staff people, would know we need them to help us make it out here.
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I like your ideas for their leadership, perhaps not the naming one but yes it could be passed from person to person and it could be a descendent of the original founder of them who helped Nicky. They take in 'outsiders' to keep the genetics going and not be all inbread but yeah its basically a 'Royal Family.'
I see them arranging matches/couplings/marriages in much the same fashion as Clan Freeborns. I'll have to think of a new naming convention for their Guildmaster then, any suggestions? I wonder who the first arranged match would be and why?? Hmm, story possibilities...
Well let me throw out a few names Director General (ties back to the old TH), Overseer, Guild Steward
I think the Guildmaster title is good Doc, by changing the naming conventions I think we meant the names of their leaders. See the quote below.
The main founder I simply called Markus (no last names here) and his successors take on a variation of that name (Kamrus, Arkmus, Rukmas, etc.)
Love to hear some good names if you got them for the Free Guilds!
Very easy, this is most likely where they got their start in the clans. Remember most what was taken was the military assets and families. I can see the skilled in the trades other then war kinda linking up in a "Union" because well we all speak the "same language" but maybe it not the same as the soldiers. AK, okay maybe his staff people, would know we need them to help us make it out here.
Yes, this is what I was thinking. Guess I'll have to create another paragraph speaking about the Star League in Exile and the Free Guilds (or their precursors).
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Star League basically kidnapped a bunch of specialists as well perhaps nicholas got them to support him on condition of independence
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While some folks like the founder of the Sainze Bloodline were swept up in the Exodus I doubt there was a huge kidnapping spree. Possible though.
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While some folks like the founder of the Sainze Bloodline were swept up in the Exodus I doubt there was a huge kidnapping spree. Possible though.
Read page 8 of the clans warriors of kerensky "invited" in quotes and all mentioned laborers specifically farmers miners and engineers
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Read page 8 of the clans warriors of kerensky "invited" in quotes and all mentioned laborers specifically farmers miners and engineers
I'll take a look, excellent quotation!