OBT Forum
General BattleTech => Alternate Universe => Salient Horizon => Topic started by: Takiro on May 10, 2019, 05:25:24 PM
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I have been working on fanbook #1 entitled Revival's End (think FM Updates post Tukayyid) set on December 31, 3052 where the Ice Hellions have just taken a bit of a beating but are still very much around. Studying this oft overlooked and derided Clan I have made some observations which I'd really like to get some comments on.
1. There are no true Keshiks in this Clan. All six of their Galaxies lack a Keshik unit of either trinary or cluster size which other Clans seem to possess. While Attack Clusters are generally the Command Clusters of every Galaxy except in one case they are not formally dubbed Keshiks. There are two places (Alpha Galaxy nickname and the 200th Attack Cluster nickname) were the Keshik designation is present but not in the fashion other Clans use it. So to me this means a few things. One, to quote Starship Troopers "everyone fights". From the highest commanders to the lowest warriors there is nobody hanging back. Certainly this philosophy (very Clan IMO) would lack strategic guidance during engagements but tactically I would expect Hellion forces to act "instinctually" like no other on the battlefield. Also there is an almost "blue collar" workman like comradery in this fighting side by side mentality.
2. There are no unit nicknames at the Cluster level with the exception of the 200th Attack Cluster (Lithe Kill Keshik). This is another almost unique Hellion phenomenon (only mirrored in Blood Spirit) within the Clans who as a rule almost always have nicknames especially among Front Line Clusters. Some Clans do not have nicknames for Second Line Clusters which I understand as lesser units such honors would not be bestowed. I wonder if the Clans follow the SLDF example canonized in that FM which essentially says everyone has a nickname but few are actually endorsed by the First Lord. It seems like the Hellions (and the Spirits) do not honor their Clusters in such a way.
3. Ice Hellion Second Line Galaxy Commanders have no Bloodnames in Field Manual Crusader Clans. Now this is whacky cause according to Clan custom a Galaxy Commander must have earned a Bloodname for such a high post yet none did for the Hellions! So what does this mean? Are all the Hellion Bloodnamed in Front Line service? Eventually Galaxy Commander Eld did earn the Coddington name which is remarked to be an unimpressive Bloodline in FM Updates. That same book also updates all Galaxy Commanders to Bloodnamed status but the question remains for me. Is Line service so prestigious to Hellion Bloodname warriors that they turn down higher Second Line posts to serve at the front? Are Second Line Galaxy Commanders without Bloodnames a common occurrence here? Without a Bloodname are they really Galaxy Commanders or just Senior Star Colonel's acting as commanders??
I've got some more on Unit Types and a Hellion tactic I've been developing but let me here what you think.
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1. Perhaps their Touman is so small that they can't waste any good Warrior in a Keshik, which for the way the Clans fought against each other doesn't help much as they don't need strategical guidance (which I must yet see a Keshik truly giving).
I like the idea of faster reaction time on the battlefield but less "big picture" thinking. This is how they made us after all.
2. Or perhaps because of the pack mentality, the unit being used as a combat command is a Galaxy, making the Hellions able to hit in a fast and furious way. Bringing more guys to the battle than your opponent is half the success.
This means that apart for logistical purpose and references in each Codex, the sub units below the Galaxy wouldn't be that useful or considered.
3. Or they use Second-Line units as a training ground for officers waiting to earn their Bloodnames.
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I think the Hellions were written from the start to fail. Not only did their Touman contain a mere 22 Clusters in 3059 (and did not expand that number at all from that time until the destruction of their Clan!), but virtually all (save one) of their Clusters was under-strength! One "Cluster" even had but a single Trinary (sure, they added two more by 3067, but both of those were Flurry Trinary!).
Just SIXTY-SEVEN (67) Trinary in 3059!!
Or less than thirteen-and-a-half full strength Clusters! (I.e., full strength being 5 Clusters, since the Hellions are noted for following the standard Clan Cluster organization: three 'Mech Trinary, one Elemental Trinary, and one Fighter Trinary.
See, this bugs the hell out of me! With this type of force strength, the Hellions should have been absorbed by someone (anyone!) before 3060!
I mean this is a smaller Touman than the Ravens . . . yet, the Ravens were denied a chance to participate in the Revival Trials due to their small Touman strength . . . but the Hellions were permitted to do so?
It really strains my ability to look at these numbers and believe that the Hellions could have survived long enough to invade the Inner Sphere! (Which did get them virtually wiped out, so there is that!)
Sure, later publications had some of these Clusters at higher strengths . . . but almost all of those Trinary were Flurries.
So, how the devil did they survive as a Clan? Especially being so aggressive and possessing so many enclaves?
Just some thoughts (well, questions anyway) on the matter.
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Good stuff gang, please keep the Ice Hellion talk going!
1. Perhaps their Touman is so small that they can't waste any good Warrior in a Keshik, which for the way the Clans fought against each other doesn't help much as they don't need strategical guidance (which I must yet see a Keshik truly giving).
I like the idea of faster reaction time on the battlefield but less "big picture" thinking. This is how they made us after all.
My no Keshiks observation leading to an 'everybody fights' mentality (see Starship Troopers) which could hamper strategic thinking and foster a very Blue Collar attitude (I'm a fighter not a commander) among the Hellions does take into account their size flux. Yes, their Touman is small now but as you read in their history (FM Crusader Clans) it Yo Yos a bunch. They go from big to small frequently it seems. In other Clans it seems as though their Keshiks all started out in larger formations but evolved as they grew. Perhaps the Hellions frequent binge and purge never allowed them to formally split Keshiks from their parent unit and similarly impacted their development.
2. Or perhaps because of the pack mentality, the unit being used as a combat command is a Galaxy, making the Hellions able to hit in a fast and furious way. Bringing more guys to the battle than your opponent is half the success.
This means that apart for logistical purpose and references in each Codex, the sub units below the Galaxy wouldn't be that useful or considered.
An ad hoc on the fly approach does fit the Hellions who live life by the seat of the pants. Ideas are not terribly refined before they are acting on here certainly. Speed or the will to act quickly (faster than the next guy) is prized but bringing more guys to the battle is something too unClanlike for me. I often wonder how much 'control' commanders have over their subordinates though? They probably never want to look away or always have to be on station in order to stay ahead of willful upstarts intent on 'Leroy Jenkins' all the time.
3. Or they use Second-Line units as a training ground for officers waiting to earn their Bloodnames.
Hmm, I spoke and in my next response to masterarminas will talk about the Clan's up and down nature. Their frequent and constant rebuilding. Wonder if they began the tradition of 'Seconds' or warriors who fail their initial Trial of Position only to be given another Trial which starts them on the Second Line path? Frequent turn over (which has got to be massive for the Hellions, more than any other Clan) has to force some innovative rebuilding methods one would think? And Hellion warriors surviving long enough to test down from front line to second line service might not be a thing. These guys live hard and die fast.
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I think the Hellions were written from the start to fail. Not only did their Touman contain a mere 22 Clusters in 3059 (and did not expand that number at all from that time until the destruction of their Clan!), but virtually all (save one) of their Clusters was under-strength! One "Cluster" even had but a single Trinary (sure, they added two more by 3067, but both of those were Flurry Trinary!).
I prefer not to think of them as not being written to fail but as natural aggressors in every situation just cause that is their natural tendency. If the Clans are a martial society then the Hellions are their suicidal lightweight always charging off into action. Yes they may seem annoying but their brethren probably at least respect them because of their courage.
Just SIXTY-SEVEN (67) Trinary in 3059!!
Or less than thirteen-and-a-half full strength Clusters! (I.e., full strength being 5 Clusters, since the Hellions are noted for following the standard Clan Cluster organization: three 'Mech Trinary, one Elemental Trinary, and one Fighter Trinary.
See, this bugs the hell out of me! With this type of force strength, the Hellions should have been absorbed by someone (anyone!) before 3060!
I mean this is a smaller Touman than the Ravens . . . yet, the Ravens were denied a chance to participate in the Revival Trials due to their small Touman strength . . . but the Hellions were permitted to do so?
It really strains my ability to look at these numbers and believe that the Hellions could have survived long enough to invade the Inner Sphere! (Which did get them virtually wiped out, so there is that!)
Sure, later publications had some of these Clusters at higher strengths . . . but almost all of those Trinary were Flurries.
You hit on a lot there and let me get to the matter I hit on with Ice Hellion (our lovable forum nudge here). The Clan frequently goes up in strength throughout their history only to make some near catastrophic endeavor causing them to Yo Yo frequently. Like my diet on steroids they change weight or strength in numbers frequently and perhaps rapidly.
OTP Revival Trials has the bidding process before the Hellion's Fury Campaign and many Clans in my observation bid much of their Touman (leading to another topic). In the Hellion's case they bid 7 Galaxies which may or may not have been their biggest size available. I tend to think not as one can argue the Clan is renowned for its quick action would bid lower initially from sheer force of habit rather than almost any other. In any case I contend that the Hellions would have a substantially larger force than the did in FM Crusader Clans which reflects years of post Fury combat. Their decision to plunge into the Homeworlds headlong had to cost them something after all.
So, how the devil did they survive as a Clan? Especially being so aggressive and possessing so many enclaves?
Just some thoughts (well, questions anyway) on the matter.
Good thoughts and I hope you'll keep writing away here on this matter. As I said to Ice up above they live fast and die hard. These Clan Light Mech specialists have to keep rebuilding as Clan weapon tech (Pulses, LB-Xs, Streaks, Targeting Computers) conspires to keep them down. Always rebuilding, they are constantly on the attack, perhaps the best defense is a never ending offense?
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Some more observations -
Twin Setbacks Plus
The Ice Hellions have suffered from two recent setbacks as of FM Crusader Clans which is dated November 3059 just after the most recent. Efforts by the Wolves and the Jade Falcons to rebuild following the Refusal War also cost the Clan much. Fervent Crusaders swept up in the most recent Harvest of the time (the second according to me) went onto rob the Hellions of several front line binaries. In particular the 90th Striker Irregulars of Beta Galaxy lost several (3?) binaries in an honor duel commanded by Star Captain Greysolon Rood. Allegedly late saKhan Weiland Cage (another casualty of the Crusader Harvest) order him to lose in order to insure at least some Ice Hellions participated in the Great Crusade.
Delta Galaxy doesn’t appear to suffer from the Harvest but from other events including the Fury. The 2nd Assault Cluster lost several of its best warriors as isorla to the Star Adders while fighting on Dagda recently. The 33rd Striker Irregulars are being rebuilt slowly from their severe casualties during the Hellion’s Fury as part of a heavyweight experiment by Galaxy Commander Norizuchi. The 45th Striker Irregulars speak of no adverse casualties just a rough and tumble environment and interestingly enough the 53rd Striker Irregulars are part of a rumored fourth front-line Galaxy. So only Alpha Galaxy is spoken about suffering losses from the Hellion’s Fury alone regarding front-line forces.
Second line wise the warriors of Zeta Prime Galaxy lost several trinaries to an unsanctioned raid on New Kent held by the Steel Vipers. Zeta Galaxy (which is very confusing to me but anyway) has suffered from several non-specific defenses against unknown opponents. Then there is Theta Galaxy which is not so much a unit as it is a collection of garrison warriors who travel with merchants. I would also point out here the Hellions initial Revival bid of 7 Galaxies and by the time of FM Crusader Clans they have only 6. From this I’d estimate greater invasion era strength from the Clan (i.e. in better shape then Snow Raven).
Small Organizational Regularity
Four (4) Trinaries seems to be considered a full-strength Cluster in the Ice Hellion Clan which often speaks of Binaries as well. Also, three Clusters seem to be the standard strength for Galaxies within the Clan.
Cold Attitude to Casualties
In every freaking page of the Ice Hellions report to the ilKhan there is talk of casualties and combined with their history and light Mech tendencies leads me to think that death is so frequent here among the Clan it is coldly regarded. This cavalier attitude towards death and causalities in general appears to be at its pinnacle here among the Ice Hellion Clan.
Duelers Supreme
Seem to rely on dueling more than other Clans in my opinion rushing a select few warriors (binary or trinary in size) to trouble points to resolve conflicts. This practice of limited commitment of resources is very Clan like and help them over time perhaps explaining why they have not been absorbed.
Unique Rules and Practices
From PackZell, to Zeta Galaxy dishonorable practice of resorting to harassment tactics, and Second Line Galaxy Commanders without Bloodnames (but who are trueborns in every case) the Hellions seem to have a ruleset of their own.
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I think the Hellions were written from the start to fail. Not only did their Touman contain a mere 22 Clusters in 3059 (and did not expand that number at all from that time until the destruction of their Clan!), but virtually all (save one) of their Clusters was under-strength! One "Cluster" even had but a single Trinary (sure, they added two more by 3067, but both of those were Flurry Trinary!).
Just SIXTY-SEVEN (67) Trinary in 3059!!
Or less than thirteen-and-a-half full strength Clusters! (I.e., full strength being 5 Clusters, since the Hellions are noted for following the standard Clan Cluster organization: three 'Mech Trinary, one Elemental Trinary, and one Fighter Trinary.
Did anyone take a look at the strength of the different Clans?
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Good stuff gang, please keep the Ice Hellion talk going!
8)
My no Keshiks observation leading to an 'everybody fights' mentality (see Starship Troopers) which could hamper strategic thinking and foster a very Blue Collar attitude (I'm a fighter not a commander) among the Hellions does take into account their size flux. Yes, their Touman is small now but as you read in their history (FM Crusader Clans) it Yo Yos a bunch. They go from big to small frequently it seems. In other Clans it seems as though their Keshiks all started out in larger formations but evolved as they grew. Perhaps the Hellions frequent binge and purge never allowed them to formally split Keshiks from their parent unit and similarly impacted their development.
Then perhaps they don't have the resources needed to waste them in Keshik since they have to rebuild often and can't have Warriors in an elite unit sitting still. This flux logic could be a reason for the no nicknames question. After all why bother to give a nickname to an unit that might in 5 years be destroyed or split or ...?
An ad hoc on the fly approach does fit the Hellions who live life by the seat of the pants. Ideas are not terribly refined before they are acting on here certainly. Speed or the will to act quickly (faster than the next guy) is prized but bringing more guys to the battle is something too unClanlike for me. I often wonder how much 'control' commanders have over their subordinates though? They probably never want to look away or always have to be on station in order to stay ahead of willful upstarts intent on 'Leroy Jenkins' all the time.
Too bad. I liked the idea of throwing more units (lighter ones of course) but I had another idea for the nicknames (see above).
However the control problem you describe makes me think of the German Army where commanding officers were quite aggressive and expected to be so, sometimes throwing entire plans in dismay.
But this tendency was tempered by the duo formed by the commanding officer and his Chief of staff, something not really in the Ice Hellion mentality.
3. Or they use Second-Line units as a training ground for officers waiting to earn their Bloodnames.
Hmm, I spoke and in my next response to masterarminas will talk about the Clan's up and down nature. Their frequent and constant rebuilding. Wonder if they began the tradition of 'Seconds' or warriors who fail their initial Trial of Position only to be given another Trial which starts them on the Second Line path? Frequent turn over (which has got to be massive for the Hellions, more than any other Clan) has to force some innovative rebuilding methods one would think? And Hellion warriors surviving long enough to test down from front line to second line service might not be a thing. These guys live hard and die fast.
I meant the other way around from Second Line to Front Line.
Perhaps we are missing the reserve units (like National Guard)? After all, the idea for the Flurry Clusters had to come of somewhere.
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Duelers Supreme
Seem to rely on dueling more than other Clans in my opinion rushing a select few warriors (binary or trinary in size) to trouble points to resolve conflicts. This practice of limited commitment of resources is very Clan like and help them over time perhaps explaining why they have not been absorbed.
Making them better Warriors than normally thought or adept at forcing their opponents to split forces and cut down their bids (perhaps by always trying to be in a position where 3 Clans are playing, the Hellions and 2 others?
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The 'warfare' practiced by the other Clans (bidding, cutdown, etc.) likely makes any such Trial for territory fair no matter how vast it is.
The no nickname thing per unit does have a kind of logic to it especially if individuals are rapidly changing assignment due to high personnel turnover (i.e. transfer, promotion, death, demotion). Rather than places of honor they are temporary posts for individuals or smaller units. It looks to me that Binaries and Trinaries are more important to the Hellions than perhaps any other Clan. Again if they are frequently blitzing around dueling for whatever it gives little time for anyone to compile a unit history or anything else meaningful.
Can any effective check be put on Hellion subordinates who get foolish notions of glory though? Although it is a meta idea I could see the Hellions winning the lotto one day and scoring big. They sure take enough risks problem is it would soon be squandered given their mentality.
Flurries seem to be a third line force (in the same class as Watch and Police forces) created by Khan Stephen Tyler shortly before his death in order to hold Hellion possessions which must have been under constant attack. Look at their initial invasion bid, the Hellions had seven (7) Galaxies before and less than a decade later only (6) six. I bet one was broken down to make good on casualties to other units or destroyed in defensive combat not yet mentioned in canon sources.
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More research finds before bed -
Hellion’s Fury Units (6 Clusters) [OTP Revival Trials]
Alpha Galaxy
7th Attack Cluster (CO: Khan Stephen Tyler) Elite
150th Hellion Lancers (CO: Star Colonel Phillepe Lienet) Elite
78th Hellion Lancers (CO: Star Colonel Grace Lienet) Veteran
Beta Galaxy
19th Striker Irregulars (CO: Star Colonel Cadence Klien) Veteran
Delta Galaxy
33rd Striker Irregulars (CO: Star Colonel Samantha Hordwon) Veteran
45th Striker Irregulars (CO: Star Colonel Karlotte) Regular
Yes the 19th is a new or unknown unit folks which would give Beta four clusters before the Fury.
Crusader Harvest
Jade Falcon absorbed a trinary of Ice Hellions giving them further insight into that Clan’s tactics (pg 93 FM CC)
A handful of Ice Hellion and Star Adder troops along with the Sixth Raven Stoop Cluster make up the new 1st Falcon Dragoons (pg 108 FM CC)
The transfer of a single Hellion trinary to the Jade Falcon Zeta Galaxy – 2nd Falcon Dragoons – caused severe political repercussions in the Clan
Ice Hellion Trap (pg 137 FM CC) speaks about saKhan Weiland Cage trial with Khan Vlad Ward of the Wolves
Hellion Trinary taken as isorla assigned to the 103rd Striker Cluster (pg 144 FM CC)
Full star of OmniMechs claimed as isorla from the Hellions were gifted to Katya Kerensky for her Command Keshik (pg 145 FM CC)
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Can any effective check be put on Hellion subordinates who get foolish notions of glory though? Although it is a meta idea I could see the Hellions winning the lotto one day and scoring big. They sure take enough risks problem is it would soon be squandered given their mentality.
Your analysis reminds of several books I read a few weeks ago on the German Way of War (https://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=12431).
A lot of what you describe would make sense with this focus.
Flurries seem to be a third line force (in the same class as Watch and Police forces) created by Khan Stephen Tyler shortly before his death in order to hold Hellion possessions which must have been under constant attack.
Which is true as they are deemed lower than Solahma units.
However, as with all Clans, we have very few info on the real garrison/police units. I don't buy that they thought they could conquer the Inner Sphere with so few troops.
The no nickname thing per unit does have a kind of logic to it especially if individuals are rapidly changing assignment due to high personnel turnover (i.e. transfer, promotion, death, demotion). Rather than places of honor they are temporary posts for individuals or smaller units. It looks to me that Binaries and Trinaries are more important to the Hellions than perhaps any other Clan. Again if they are frequently blitzing around dueling for whatever it gives little time for anyone to compile a unit history or anything else meaningful.
This could be consistent with their approach of not keeping Sibkos together during training.
However what puzzles me is the way the 3 different training camps are conducting their final trials as described in Field Manual Crusader Clans and as written on Sarna, see the last paragraph http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Ice_Hellion#Military
This would indicate that most are Warriors but that some are leaders/tacticians.
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I'll have to check it out your link in more detail Ice but yes there would be similarities there. One could argue the Clan Invasion was actually inspired by this lightning strike mindset. Early in their history (following the Pentagon Campaign) the Ice Hellions were said to be very successful hitting hard and fast enabling rapid growth. Other Clans adapted quickly and the Hellion trend upward was reversed starkly but the lesson was already there. One could argue that the 'Hellion strategic model' gave birth to the rise of other successful Clans like Wolf and Smoke Jaguar. Their quick aggressor style may have also influenced Mongoose but it leads me to think about aggression as a facet of the Clans. Some are more apt to take the initiative and strike while others are more laid back such as Ghost Bear and Star Adder who come off as able counter punchers. To some Clans this aggression facet is applied in a specialized focus (Snow Raven politically, Diamond Shark economically, Goliath Scorpion historically) in a non military fashion. Yes being on the attack or aggression is the Clan way but the Hellions were really the first to launch their style of war against others and so in some regard have to be viewed as teachers. This vanguard was the first and continues to be the first in developing new methods of attack.
I'd actually credit Khan Stephen Tyler with starting the Wars of Possession which would engulf the Homeworlds leading for his Fury Campaign gave birth to the idea among the Home Clans to launch out at the Invaders as a target. The Hellions capabilities and the Clans familiarity with their tactics halted their advance while his death switched their priorities to joining the invasion (see Asa Taney) rather than Homeworld conquests which one could say Star Adder was the ultimate winner.
Flurries being third line units is why I've come up with new designations for Hellion vehicle forces (Squalls for second line formations and Blizzards for front) in this setting which are developing rapidly.
I read up on the Hellion Sibkos on Hector which is interesting and different from the Clans as a whole. While this Clan has its own rule set in many regards this educational system has to be good at replenishing losses better than most or else the Hellions would not be here today.
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Are the Clans aggressive as a whole? Yes. They are Warriors on a crusade and eager to show the whole Universe that they are the best.
Is there a clear strategical approach? Not really apart for a few Clans (Star Adder, Ghost Bear and Wolf).
Is there a link between this extra aggressivity and the lack of strategical approach, after much reading (books like the one I mentioned) and thought (with the lack of real long range campaigns and the decisive character of any battle in the Clan space), I would say yes.
Are Hellions better at this than others? More quick to react to changes in front of them, with more faster designs, more aggressive... all of this means yes.
Are they more successful in the long run? Not at all but they somehow have the capacity to get back after being hit bad.
They must have a supply of trained MechWarriors, perhaps in some unknown third line forces. And for 'Mechs, can we consider that with the resources to manufacture 2 Timber Wolves, you can produce 5 Hellions?
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I suppose strategy is the wrong word Ice. Tactical doctrine is probably more precise in describing the Hellion aggressive strike and in large part they are responsible for spreading it among the Clans. One could say they influenced the most successful invader (Wolf) more than any other Clan.
To the Hellion sibko system I will add this comment which may have nothing to do with it at all. Taking into account their population statistics this Clan may have the deepest recruiting pool of anyone in the Homeworld especially since they are willing to use Freeborns which seem a major part of their Touman.
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I suppose strategy is the wrong word Ice. Tactical doctrine is probably more precise in describing the Hellion aggressive strike and in large part they are responsible for spreading it among the Clans. One could say they influenced the most successful invader (Wolf) more than any other Clan.
No. I mean it. They have such an aggressive attack while believing in "one strike wins it all" that they (like almost all the Clans) can't develop any strategical approach.
To the Hellion sibko system I will add this comment which may have nothing to do with it at all. Taking into account their population statistics this Clan may have the deepest recruiting pool of anyone in the Homeworld especially since they are willing to use Freeborns which seem a major part of their Touman.
You might remember my job on the Clan population, they don't have such a huge population but giving their "rebirth" process, there must be a trick.
Population (3050)
Blood Spirit 54 439 743
Cloud Cobra 46 958 098
Coyote 60 773 953
Diamond Shark 51 484 477
Fire Mandrill 65 097 859
Ghost Bear 80 000 000
Goliath Scorpion 53 041 430
Hell’s Horses 77 430 657
Ice Hellion 74 715 115
Jade Falcon 89 943 887
Snow Raven 75 776 987
Star Adder 80 000 000
Steel Viper 47 916 746
Wolf 82 726 754
Burrock 74 000 000
Nova Cat 80 000 000
Smoke Jaguar 76 000 000
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To the Hellion sibko system I will add this comment which may have nothing to do with it at all. Taking into account their population statistics this Clan may have the deepest recruiting pool of anyone in the Homeworld especially since they are willing to use Freeborns which seem a major part of their Touman.
They might just have the lowest average age for pilots if they have such a high turnover rate.
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Does make sense since they are apt to a younger persons behavior than an older.
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Did some further work this weekend on the Turkina review (which is nearly completed) and what happened to Ice Hellion from Tukayyid (June 1, 3052) to the beginning of the Restoration Debates (December 31, 3052). These six months are a key setup period for the Clans in Salient Horizons and the real start of my alternate timeline. Let me run down the important personalities of the Clan for you all and get your opinions.
Asa Taney is approaching two years as Khan and his plot to bring the Home Clans together in some sort of political coalition to join the invasion is likely in its early stages. Now Ian Hawker is dead in this alternate defeated by a Warden Shark ristar of my creation following the Battle of Nyserta leaving him without an ally. Early word of Operation Restoration which would add the Home Clans to the Invasion must be a boon to his diplomatic efforts. However he is in charge of a Clan who is clearly overstretched in regards to territory and resources. I know he proved himself to be a schemer in the novels (which one?) and comes of to me as an aerospace diplomat per say. What do you think he does here.
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Try to find a way to have more Warriors and more material as quickly as possible.
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Try to find a way to have more Warriors and more material as quickly as possible.
Oh most certainly I have basically come up with a list of Clans at this time and what their general goal is - the Hellions are definitely rebuilding from the Fury. But they are unlikely to sit back and do this - they are aggressive and will likely try to take what they need as quickly as possible.
Also been conducting a deep dive on Asa Taney. Suprisingly there isn't more about this super annoying and largely ineffective leader but here is what I found so far.
Asa Taney (FM Crusader Clans pg )
Khan Asa Taney is the senior Khan of Clan Ice Hellion. An avid Crusader, he has been pressing for the dissolution of the Truce of Tukayyid and a resumption of the invasion. However, Taney also advocates that the Homeworld Clans aid in the effort, citing the “ineffectiveness of our allegedly most powerful Clans†as the reason. Such statements have earned him few friends among the invaders, who remain a potent political force.
Khan Taney rose to power after the death of Khan Stephen Tyler at the hands of the bandit caste. Though Taney’s record as a pilot was exemplary and his Bloodline is strong, the fact that he was only a Star Colonel at the time of his election has raised eyebrows among the Grand Council. Enemies of the Khan have tried to implicate him in Khan Tyler’s death, but have so far produced no evidence.
Taney’s attempt to open the door to invasion for the Homeworld Clans was recently thwarted by the Wolf and Jade Falcon Khans. Angered by their actions, Taney is now seeking to renew his effort and avenge himself on the Khans who stopped it.
Grave Covenant (page 69)
Large headed (pilot phenotype) with red hair
A scheming antagonist from the Twilight of the Clans series whose plans never seem to work out, ineffectual
Scylla Deployment (TRO3067 pg 134)
The Tenth Assault Cluster on New Kent was the first Viper unit to receive the Scylla. There they made good use of the design, repulsing numerous Ice Hellion probes. In 3064, the long-expected Viper offensive against their neighbors on New Kent saw widespread use of the Scylla, its maneuverability allowing the heavy machine to make a surprise assault across the rugged Shandrake Massif into the heart of the Hellion holdings, devastating the enemy’s 175th Assault Cluster. With typical poor grace, the Hellions complained to the Grand Council, deriding the use of “freebirth†equipment and blaming “Spheroid tactics†for their defeat. The other Clans simply listened as Asa Taney validated the Hellion’s nickname of “Clan Temper Tantrum.â€
The Great Refusal (Twilight of the Clans pg 39)
Khan Asa Taney (2/2), Visigoth Prime
Raina Montose (Wars of Reaving pg 188)
Her defining moment as a Hellion warrior was her Trial of Grievance against Hellion Khan Asa Taney for his ineptitude in handling a retaliatory attack on Brim against the Cloud Cobras. Taney, confident that none of his warriors could beat him in an aerial dogfight, accepted Montose’s challenge. Raina fought the khan with her Viper OmniMech. Nearly every Hellion warrior considered her either mad or suicidal. She used her terrain to her advantage, however, jumping from a tall sandstone peak in the Wick Steppes and timing her jump to land on the tail of Taney’s fighter. As the Viper slid off the out-of-control Visigoth, she unloaded all of her weapons into the fighter’s spine. Her salvo crippled the fighter and she jumped her ‘Mech clear before Taney’s fighter clipped another peak and crash-landed.
Hankyu [Arctic Cheetah] (TRO 3058 pg 164)
MechWarrior Eva Hordwon: Eva comes from an Asa Taney-Lysa Hordwon sibko. From an early age, she managed to gain her genefather’s attention by challenging him to a personal trial at age 16. Eva then went on to win her Trial of Position by defeating three of her opponents, but Khan Taney assigned her to the Seventh Attack Cluster as a Star Commander. She lost the Trial of Refusal against her genefather, as well as both her legs, but after they were re-grown her performance in a Hankyu was considered exemplary in her Clan. Assigned to saKhan Weiland Cage’s Lithe Kill Keshik as a “surprise†for Khan Ward, Star Commander Eva continued to excel, nearly defeating the Wolf Khan. Much to Asa Taney’s chagrin, Vlad Ward took her as a bondsman. Eva quickly proved herself worthy to be a Wolf Warrior, and serves in the Golden Keshik. She traveled back to Babylon in 3066 to gain her Bloodname.
Surkai (Jihad Hot Spots 3072 pg 81)
saKhan Connor Rood asked Raina Montose not to mimic ‘Asa Taney and his psychotic ways’
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I think we need to answer 3 questions:
1. how do they rebuild so fast and so often?
2. what is their new fighting philosophy (Furry units for example)?
3. who introduced these 2 things?
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1. The Ice Hellions rebuild quickly in two very important and simple ways. Manpower, they use all available to fill out their Touman from Freeborn to Abtakha to Trueborn. Equipment, as a lightweight force concentrating on speed their manufacturing doesn't suffer from longer term builds like Heavy and Assaults.
2. I will comment more on their evolving fighting style later but it is always based on speed.
3. Their founder introduced their core beliefs but more recently Khan Stephen Tyler introduced Flurry Clusters to safeguard territory taken during the Fury.
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Going over this character and his Clan for BattleTech: Salient Horizon in detail has got me thinking how exactly Asa Taney became Khan of the Ice Hellions in 3050.
Page 83 of FM Crusader Clans says ‘Khan Taney rose to power after the death of Khan Stephen Tyler at the hands of the bandit caste. Though Taney's record as a pilot was exemplary and his Bloodline strong, the fact that he was only a Star Colonel at the time of his election has raised eyebrows among the Grand Council. Enemies of the Khan have tried to implicate him in Khan Tyler's death, but have so far produced no evidence.’
Now I know we don’t generally think of the Clans as engaging in clandestine behavior as it is dishonorable but perhaps we should be more cynical especially of the Ice Hellions. Certainly, this Clan has had their secrets as seen in their history (Field Manual Crusader Clans) most notably in 3000 following the Dragoon Compromise. I’ll leave you guys to look up the details of the Secret Trial there and there is another large questionable incident like the Drug Scandal (Performance Enhancers) of saKhan Lucius Moore.
So, we have at least two historic examples where paraphrasing Command & Conquer "Power moves quickly in the Ice Hellion Clan." My question to you is what if Asa Taney engineered his own predecessor's demise? To quote FM Crusader Clans again ‘At the conclusion of the Hellions' Fury campaign, Khan Tyler was killed in a bandit attack on the world of Londerholm, where Clan Ice Hellion had captured a Smoke Jaguar enclave. SaKhan Danielle Lienet was also critically wounded in the attack, and was forced to step down. The Bloodnamed warriors of the Clan chose Star Colonel Asa Taney, a ristar at the time, as the new Khan. Khan Taney moved quickly to consolidate his power.’
Ushering in Taney I believe allowed the Clan to reshift its focus from the Homeworld conquests undertaken by Tyler as a distraction or outlet over his failure to invade. No matter how successful the Fury was Tyler's utter failure to earn a place in the invasion was not something which could be forgotten or forgiven. Preliminary Combat Trials laid out in Operational Turning Points: Revival Trials were wholly unsuccessful and perhaps even embarrassing to more than a few in the Touman. The flagship 7th Attack Cluster led by the Khan himself lost to Goliath Scorpion and Fire Mandrill derailing this stalwart Crusader Clan from the very invasion they themselves have been pushing for since the political ideology began. This has got to be a bitter pill for some to swallow.
Furthermore page 38 of OTP Revival Trials speaks of Tyler’s death and seems to allude to Smoke Jaguar involvement in the divulging of information to the bandit caste. But where did they get the information – which leads me to ilKhan Showers possibly conspiring with Taney perhaps even promising them a chance to join the Crusade as soon as possible. Punishing Tyler as well as neutering any other Homeworld aggressor is in the Jaguars interest so is this nefarious rise to the Khanship possible for Asa Taney? I think so but have no proof just a few canon statements that I can infer a possible connection.
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1. The Ice Hellions rebuild quickly in two very important and simple ways. Manpower, they use all available to fill out their Touman from Freeborn to Abtakha to Trueborn. Equipment, as a lightweight force concentrating on speed their manufacturing doesn't suffer from longer term builds like Heavy and Assaults.
2. I will comment more on their evolving fighting style later but it is always based on speed.
3. Their founder introduced their core beliefs but more recently Khan Stephen Tyler introduced Flurry Clusters to safeguard territory taken during the Fury.
I think you are going a bit quickly here (perhaps because of some Ice Hellion influence :P).
1. The Ice Hellions despise the necessity of having Freeborns in their combat units.
2.
3. Stephan Cage was a member of a Dragoon Regiment. We might have forgotten that but independent units were combined-arms.
And for Flurry units, I read both Field Manual Crusaders and The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky. The first stated that they are a new type of unit after the Hellion's Fury but the second states nothing apart that most Freeborns serve in Flurry units, militia units that contain regular armour and infantry.
Could this be the reason behind their capacity to endure? They are quick to gather militia units when needed and have already done so a few times. When other Clans would show muscles and do 'Mechs, 'Mechs and more 'Mechs (which take time to build and train Warriors). Ice Hellion could quickly gather these militia units and quickly disband them afterwards.
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The Ice Hellions despise the necessity of having Freeborns in their combat units.
That sounds more like Trueborn prejudice than a real policy Ice. The fact is the Clan needs Freeborn warriors and some or most of its Trueborns can whine about how much they do not like it but unless they change their high attrition rates which given their lightweight nature and life fast die hard attitudes ain't happening.
Stephan Cage was a member of a Dragoon Regiment. We might have forgotten that but independent units were combined-arms.
Thank you Loremaster that is a great historical justification for the return of armored units to the Touman. However, your ignoring the natural progression of the Clans which except for Blood Spirit (orthodox combat doctrine) and Hell's Horses (philosophical practice) went away from vehicles as a combat option. Interestingly enough both those Clans were also almost required to use these inferior war machines in their line units given their resource poor situation.
And for Flurry units, I read both Field Manual Crusaders and The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky. The first stated that they are a new type of unit after the Hellion's Fury but the second states nothing apart that most Freeborns serve in Flurry units, militia units that contain regular armour and infantry.
Could this be the reason behind their capacity to endure? They are quick to gather militia units when needed and have already done so a few times. When other Clans would show muscles and do 'Mechs, 'Mechs and more 'Mechs (which take time to build and train Warriors). Ice Hellion could quickly gather these militia units and quickly disband them afterwards.
I believe it says in Operation Revival Turning Points (I am looking for the quote cause I have seen in) that Khan Stephen Tyler established Flurry Clusters after the Hellion's Fury to hold onto gains from that offensive. This mobilization is recent but likely draws upon Police Units (Third Line aka Clan Militia forces) which we know exist but have little to do with BattleTech.
Perhaps this is another reason Tyler was so expendable after the Fury? Traditionalists probably like the introduction of the Flurries even less then the rest of his nonsense. Link below in case you didn't see it.
https://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/index.php?topic=3773.msg47766#msg47766
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That sounds more like Trueborn prejudice than a real policy Ice. The fact is the Clan needs Freeborn warriors and some or most of its Trueborns can whine about how much they do not like it but unless they change their high attrition rates which given their lightweight nature and life fast die hard attitudes ain't happening.
I think they were trained separately too and didn't fight in the same units. Clans have this prejudice but it seems they had it more.
Thank you Loremaster that is a great historical justification for the return of armored units to the Touman. However, your ignoring the natural progression of the Clans which except for Blood Spirit (orthodox combat doctrine) and Hell's Horses (philosophical practice) went away from vehicles as a combat option. Interestingly enough both those Clans were also almost required to use these inferior war machines in their line units given their resource poor situation.
My comment was more a way to find a way for Clan Ice Hellion to justify this use of "combined-arms" units. A vague reference in the Remembrance and here you go.
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I disagree. Smoke Jaguar and Steel Viper have this 'prejudice' the most as they outright forbide freeborn warriors. That means zero in their touman probably right down to their Police Clusters.
Oh I like the historic justification of the Flurry concept.
Again what did you think of my rise of Asa Taney theory?
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I disagree. Smoke Jaguar and Steel Viper have this 'prejudice' the most as they outright forbide freeborn warriors. That means zero in their touman probably right down to their Police Clusters.
It would be perhaps easier to find who is more liberal and grade them according to that.
Oh I like the historic justification of the Flurry concept.
;D
Again what did you think of my rise of Asa Taney theory?
He was a bit short-sighted and tempered to plan something like that. But then again he could have been manipulated.
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So, I have been doing some research on the Ice Hellion Flurry units or Flurry Clusters as it certainly has bearing here on this discussion. Here are three relevant qoutes, followed by my thoughts, and lastly my conclusions. Please discuss!!
Field Manual: Crusader Clans - Unit Designations - page 79
For similar reasons, unit organization follows the straightforward Clan model among front-line and second-line units, with the exception of a new unit type called the Flurry. (this book page 5 is dated in universe November 19, 3059 in regards to the Flurry being a new unit)
1. This first quote from FM CC reveals that the Flurry is a new unit and that term is applicable in 3059.
Field Manual: Crusader Clans - Flurries - page 80
The Flurry is a new type of unit created to fill a gap opened by the Hellions' Fury campaign. After that campaign's conclusion, Khan Tyler realized that he had overextended his garrison forces in attempting to hold what the Ice Hellions had taken. To compensate for this shortcoming, he commissioned several new units to be formed from whatever battle machines were available-mostly fast attack hovercraft and VTOLs, along with a few scavenged or barely battle-worthy 'Mechs. Next, Khan Tyler offered billets in the new units to all trueborns and freeborns who had failed to test out of the warrior caste. Most trueborns turned down the offer, but many freeborns accepted it. Flurry units are loose groupings of vehicles thrown together to protect an area until regular 'Mech forces arrive. Organized along the same lines as standard Clan units, Flurry units are regarded as little more than cannon fodder; consequently, only the oldest or most disgraced Clan warriors command them. To the surprise of many, some of these ad hoc units have actually begun to show signs of cohesion, even throwing back an occasional attack before the arrival of reinforcements.
Though some maintain that the creation of these units goes against Clan tradition, Khans Tyler and Taney have reassured their fellow Khans that these units will never appear alongside front-line 'Mechs or Elementals. They exist to serve their Clan one last time, and none of their members are expected to survive for long. Currently, the Clan fields roughly six Clusters of Flurry units, divided among two Galaxies and spread throughout Ice Hellion space. Approximately five percent of these units are 'Mech forces, equipped with aging and decrepit models. The remainder are primarily fast hovercraft and VTOLs.
2. This is much meatier and may in conjunction with my next quote narrow down the establishment of the Flurry unit type. It clearly states that Khan (Stephen) Tyler founds them after the Fury campaign in an attempt to hold territory taken during said operation. These gap fillers were then staffed by the same Khan with testdowns and freeborns as a force of last resort - I'd argue Clan third-line in quality on par with Police and Watch Clusters. A very irregular group to say the least.
3. There is also noted 'surprise' and resistance (goes against Clan tradition) which is met with reassurances from 'Khans Tyler and Taney' that they will never serve alongside front-line troops. They are outfitted with subpar equipment which combined with their performance and the fact that most meet a quick death seem to win at least a grudging acceptance.
OTP Revival Trials
Touchpoint: Londerholm - page 38 - Dated June 2, 3050
AFTERMATH
Once the Smoke Jaguar garrison troops realized the Ice Hellions were leading them to the ruins of Vostok, they approached the ruins with a caution bordering on superstition. In the driving rain, a detachment of Coyotes joined them. Unlike the Jaguars, the Coyotes harbored no such compunctions over the locale and took the battle straight to their agitators. Together the Coyotes and Jaguars pressed the attack, intending to make the Ice Hellions pay dearly for costing them territory. The Seventh and the 150th suffered high casualties, but Khan Tyler, saKhan Lienet, and several Hellions managed to slip away to their enclaves once the rain turned into torrential downpour.
Some believe the Smoke Jaguars got their ultimate vengeance in a different way. A few weeks afterward, a bandit raid on the Ice Hellions’ new Londerholm possessions killed Khan Tyler and maimed saKhan Lienet. Although proving that the Jaguars purposely leaked intelligence to bandit caste cells operating on Londerholm is difficult, the timing of the attack seems far too coincidental to ignore.
4. From this last quote we can see that the Hellions final part of Fury occurred in early June 3050 and only 'a few weeks' later Khan Tyler was killed in a bandit raid on Londerholm.
CONCLUSION
I believe this establishes the month of June 3050 (after the 2nd of that month of course) as the birthdate of the Flurries which makes sense if you look at quote 1 which nine years later still refers to them as new.
Could the creation of the Flurry units, even though it doubtlessly contributed to the defense of Hellion territories, contribute to my 'Taney Coup' theory? Doubtlessly Crusaders within the Clan were restless after being shutout of the invasion and now they have to work with 'the dregs of the warrior caste' just in order to hold onto these Homeworld gains. It must have been galling and another reason to knock Khan Stephen Tyler off and get a ristar like Asa Taney in who wants to invade; and not just settle for such lesser glory.
I want to address Quicksilver later but chew on this first guys, what do you think?
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CONCLUSION
I believe this establishes the month of June 3050 (after the 2nd of that month of course) as the birthdate of the Flurries which makes sense if you look at quote 1 which nine years later still refers to them as new.
Finding the last quote was what I couldn't do and it makes more sense.
However I also read that Asa Taney became Khan in 3048...
Could the creation of the Flurry units, even though it doubtlessly contributed to the defense of Hellion territories, contribute to my 'Taney Coup' theory? Doubtlessly Crusaders within the Clan were restless after being shutout of the invasion and now they have to work with 'the dregs of the warrior caste' just in order to hold onto these Homeworld gains. It must have been galling and another reason to knock Khan Stephen Tyler off and get a ristar like Asa Taney in who wants to invade; and not just settle for such lesser glory.
Or maybe a "Honor in the pack" attack with a cabal of several Warriors planing the Coup but Asa Taney managing to bid them in the process. I still think he lacked the foresight to plan everything.
3. There is also noted 'surprise' and resistance (goes against Clan tradition) which is met with reassurances from 'Khans Tyler and Taney' that they will never serve alongside front-line troops. They are outfitted with subpar equipment which combined with their performance and the fact that most meet a quick death seem to win at least a grudging acceptance.
My "historical" link could provide them with an advantage in justifying this creation.
Field Manual: Crusader Clans - Flurries - page 80
Next, Khan Tyler offered billets in the new units to all trueborns and freeborns who had failed to test out of the warrior caste. Most trueborns turned down the offer, but many freeborns accepted it. Flurry units are loose groupings of vehicles thrown together to protect an area until regular 'Mech forces arrive. Organized along the same lines as standard Clan units, Flurry units are regarded as little more than cannon fodder; consequently, only the oldest or most disgraced Clan warriors command them.
Which implies people being thrown out of the military arm and you are right probably in the 3rd line forces (if militia/police/Watch are considered military but not Warrior oriented) or even no longer in the military.
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Things are real fuzzy with Ice Hellion history especially after the Secret Trial circa 3000. I suppose they wanted to rebuild in relative seclusion hence the quiet time but there is little detail from the point (at least in FM Crusader Clans, page 77) where Khan Ernest Wick takes command of the Clan (which is presumably in 3000, perhaps he was a young warrior at this time, early 30s?) till his successor, Stephen Tyler, takes over (perhaps in the 3020s or 3030s?). There is the building and loss of the Arctic Cheetah to the Smoke Jaguars in this time period but I'd have to search for more details of the era.
I think it was the Hellion 'Pack Mentality' which claimed Stephen Tyler whose legacy you can certainly argue about. Seems like he came up short more than once and was willing to think outside the box (Furry units) - which is a trait (Group Think) that the Clan might not appreciate. No doubt Wick gets the lion share of the credit for doing what had to be done while starting the rebuild only to have Tyler screw it up, to a certain degree. While outsiders can see that the Clan might not have had a real chance to win a place in the invasion the Hellions probably don't agree and blame Tyler.
Interestingly enough (bottom of page 78) it is stated that the Hellion Touman has varied wildly over the centuries, from a peak of more than nine full Galaxies to a little over three. Could this be a direct reference to the Hellion's strength before the Secret Trial? Nine Galaxies circa 3000 would make a certain amount of sense and in my estimation the split would be four front-line [note the missing Gamma] and five second-line. What are your thoughts here?
I really like the historic justification and perhaps it is needed with the Clan's Quicksilver stance cause Ice you are right, the Clan doesn't like Flurry units what so ever. That is an oversight on my part but there is an opportunity to correct it. There is a major campaign (which is what I am building to here) to come before the Restoration vote (January 3053) so perhaps the Clan can evolve in its view. What do you think?
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Could this be a direct reference to the Hellion's strength before the Secret Trial? Nine Galaxies circa 3000 would make a certain amount of sense and in my estimation the split would be four front-line [note the missing Gamma] and five second-line. What are your thoughts here?
I don't fully agree. I think that their peak of strength was before the Civil War. After all, "By the end of the Golden Century the Ice Hellions had regained much of their former strength and successfully erased the stain of the Moore scandal."
I would perhaps drop one Galaxy from the nine with 4 Front Lines and 4 Second Lines Galaxies.
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I gave some thoughts to the composition of Flurry CLusters.
What about making them 3 Trinaries stong with only vehicles (Hover/VTOL) except in the Command Star where you would have 2 BattleMechs, 2 Conventional Fighters (or VTOL) and 2 Hover Infantry Points (I was thinking about using APCs rather than the motorised units).
I went for an unit without infantry backup mostly because of the need to go fast and hit hard but putting them in Hovercrafts or VTOL could do the trick too.
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The Moore Scandal took place so early in Clan history (2830s?) that nine Galaxies at that time seems like a stretch to me. That's why I would think that the height of nine Galaxies (per FM Crusader Clans) is in the year 3000.
I gave some thoughts to the composition of Flurry CLusters.
What about making them 3 Trinaries stong with only vehicles (Hover/VTOL) except in the Command Star where you would have 2 BattleMechs, 2 Conventional Fighters (or VTOL) and 2 Hover Infantry Points (I was thinking about using APCs rather than the motorised units).
I went for an unit without infantry backup mostly because of the need to go fast and hit hard but putting them in Hovercrafts or VTOL could do the trick too.
Jump Infantry is possible I guess but it is weird given the Hellion Elementals are so neglected.
What did you think of a possible transition to front line and second line service for these vehicle units??
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The Moore Scandal took place so early in Clan history (2830s?) that nine Galaxies at that time seems like a stretch to me. That's why I would think that the height of nine Galaxies (per FM Crusader Clans) is in the year 3000.
I had the same thought this morning and I think that in order to stick to the text, we could say that they were not up to 100% strength. After all, they are known to fight against each other.
Jump Infantry is possible I guess but it is weird given the Hellion Elementals are so neglected.
What did you think of a possible transition to front line and second line service for these vehicle units??
No Elementals, only Infantry. This would show that these units are 3rd line.
I think the Flurry went to First and Second line units as you can see in Field Manual Updates. If you are talking about their status, they don't seem to get any better but we could change that :D
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I had the same thought this morning and I think that in order to stick to the text, we could say that they were not up to 100% strength. After all, they are known to fight against each other.
Rather than rush to an early nine in the 2830s we could simple site this time as a high mark in Hellion history. I'd have to do more research on the era (look at Widowmaker Absorption for example to see the Wolves and Widowmakers strengths) to give a better estimate.
No Elementals, only Infantry. This would show that these units are 3rd line.
I think the Flurry went to First and Second line units as you can see in Field Manual Updates. If you are talking about their status, they don't seem to get any better but we could change that :D
I think Jump Infantry is a must for the Flurries. Foot and even motorized are too slow (immobile) to keep pace. Jump Infantry has likely been neglected by the Clans following the birth of Elementals. These light and nimble but extremely fragile troops could well by an unknown asset to the Hellions.
I think I have an idea for this which would play well with a corresponding growth of antipathy for Vehicle Forces from Burrock. The result would be to have these Clans go in opposite directions regarding these forces.
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Rather than rush to an early nine in the 2830s we could simple site this time as a high mark in Hellion history. I'd have to do more research on the era (look at Widowmaker Absorption for example to see the Wolves and Widowmakers strengths) to give a better estimate.
The 9 are an official figure from Field Manual Crusader Clans.
I think Jump Infantry is a must for the Flurries. Foot and even motorized are too slow (immobile) to keep pace. Jump Infantry has likely been neglected by the Clans following the birth of Elementals. These light and nimble but extremely fragile troops could well by an unknown asset to the Hellions.
But they should be provided with their own transport assets as they are quite slow in an unit full of VTOLs and Hovercrafts and they can't mount on the 'Mechs.
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The 9 are an official figure from Field Manual Crusader Clans.
Yes my friend, bottom of page 78 under Hellion's Claws - second sentence.
But they should be provided with their own transport assets as they are quite slow in an unit full of VTOLs and Hovercrafts and they can't mount on the 'Mechs.
Flurry Jump Infantry could be rapidly introduced to the battlefield by VTOLs and Hovercrafts.
I am working on a general summary for this Clan (and the rest) circa June 1, 3052 for Fanbook 1 and general discussion going forward. Should be up soon!
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I am working on a general summary for this Clan (and the rest) circa June 1, 3052 for Fanbook 1 and general discussion going forward. Should be up soon!
Still working on this but here is what I have so far.
Clan Ice Hellion (June 3052)
The Leaders (Khans, Loremaster)
Khan Asa Taney (Pilot, Visigoth Prime, 2/2)
saKhan Weiland Cage (Mechwarrior, fastest, on par with Pilots, Crusader first)
Loremaster Jonas Cage (entering his mid-forties, which makes him nearly twice as old as most warriors in the Touman, while his reflexes have held up well like many venerable Hellions he has been slowed by age, still highly regarded, position generally held by the senior member of the Cage bloodhouse in deference to the Clan’s founder, chiefly concerned with training, wise, suggested and justified the establishment of the Flurry Clusters by citing the founders history.)
VIPs (6+)
Star Admiral Nicholas Drake (* Fleet Commander, flamboyant, raider)
Star Colonel Graham Moore (*Elemental, on par with others throughout the Clans, strong, fast, a target of discrimination, overcoming the Hellion’s poor view of this phenotype in his sibko makes him a champion down trodden in the Clan, this leads him to advocate for Flurry)
Star [Colonel] Danielle Lienet (former saKhan and one of the fastest warriors ever seen badly injured in the bandit raid on Londerholm, initially crippled and feeling permanently slowed by the traumatic attack, missing multiple testing cycles, she considered bondsref, humbled, 1st Blizzard Cluster)
Star Captain Connor Rood (Mechwarrior, Kit Fox, youngest Hellion ristar)
Star Commander Sellen Cage (Mechwarrior, Linebacker Prime, 3/2, Hellion ristar)
Star Commander John Wick (* Mechwarrior, Quicksilver, Hellion ristar)
Troop Strength
13 frontline clusters & 10 second line clusters (+ Flurries)
Alpha Galaxy (The Blinding Keshik)
7th Attack Cluster (CO: Khan Asa Taney) Elite Londerholm
150th Hellion Lancers (CO: Star Colonel Phillepe Lienet) Elite Londerholm
77th Hellion Lancers (CO: Star Colonel Freed Hasbrin) Veteran
40th Hellion Lancers (CO: Star Colonel Raina Montose) Elite
78th Hellion Lancers (CO: Star Colonel Grace Lienet) Veteran Foster
Beta Galaxy (The Lithe Kill)
200th Attack Cluster (CO: saKhan Weiland Cage) Elite
121st Hellion Lancers (CO: Star Colonel Magda Moore) Veteran
90th Striker Irregulars (CO: Star Colonel Marcus Wick) Veteran
19th Striker Irregulars (CO: Star Colonel Cadence Klien) Veteran Homer
Delta Galaxy (Dauntless Hunters)
2nd Assault Cavaliers (CO: Galaxy Commander Drew Norizuchi) Veteran
33rd Striker Irregulars (CO: Star Colonel Damon Hawkins) Veteran Marshall
45th Striker Irregulars (CO: Star Colonel Scott Moore) Regular Hoard
53rd Striker Irregulars (CO: Star Colonel Perry Taney) Regular
Zeta Galaxy (Guardians of the Lair)
3rd Hector Cavaliers (CO: Galaxy Commander Curtis) Regular
7th Hector Cavaliers (CO Star Colonel Lillith) Regular
150th Attack Cluster (CO: Star Colonel Vik Horn) Green
45th Hector Cavaliers (CO: Star Colonel Gertwin) Green
Zeta Prime Galaxy (Freeborn Fanaticism) (+ a cluster?)
175th Attack Cluster (CO: Galaxy Commander Eld) Regular
176th Hector Cavaliers (CO: Star Colonel Solomon) Regular
52nd Hector Cavaliers (CO: Star Colonel Rilla) Regular
Theta Galaxy (Caste Saviors)
180th Attack Cluster (CO: Galaxy Commander Renold) Regular
43rd Hector Cavaliers (CO: Star Colonel Balfour) Green
44th Hector Cavaliers (CO: none) Green
Warships (13)
1 McKenna class Battleship: Cage’s Pride
1 Potemkin class Troop Cruiser: Coterie
2 Aegis class Heavy Cruisers: Taney, Chaos Sailor
3 Lola III class Destroyers: Cold Hunter, Impaler, Radiant
1 Essex class Destroyer: Moore’s Honor
1 York class Destroyer/Carrier: Pack Leader
1 Carrack class Transport: Maker
3 Fredasa class Corvettes: Swift Bait, Hellion’s Pride, Whelp
Territory (9+)
Babylon (23%)
Atreus (30%)
Foster (30%)
Hector (100%) capital
Hoard (25%)
Londerholm (24%)
Marshall (9%)
New Kent (6%)
Strana Mechty (5.88%)
Tathis (30%)
Current Situation
Still rebuilding from the Secret Trial almost fifty years prior the Ice Hellion Touman is only at two-thirds its greatest strength. Focus on rebuilding front line troops has paid off and if not for the Hellion’s Fury may indeed be complete but this seems to be at the expense of second line garrisons. [If my assumptions about Gamma Galaxy missing and two other unknown Provisional Garrison Galaxies once existing are correct] The gains made from the Fury campaign two years ago seem to have enriched the Clan materially but stretched its forces to the breaking point trying to cover this territory. This required the mobilization of Flurry units [number undetermined at this time, could it be less than the 6 clusters split among two Galaxies listed in FM Crusader Clans seven years in the future?] which despite some resistance have performed well. No doubt this expansionist Clan would like to continue to be aggressive but given the lack of forces to effectively defend the massive territory they already have that would indeed be difficult or impractical.
Since his elevation two years ago Khan Taney has been attempting to build a Home Clan Coalition so that the ten left behind may join in the Crusade. Word of the Truce and Operation Restoration may just fast forward these goals despite the Fury which left a bad taste in many other Clans mouths (Cloud Cobra, Coyote, Fire Mandrill, Hell’s Horses, Smoke Jaguar, Snow Raven were all struck). Khan Fletcher of the Hell’s Horses is one of Taney’s biggest supporters despite this however and the fulfillment of their invasion dreams may just overcome any obstacles currently standing in their way.
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Since I was looking at Field Manual Upgrades for Clan Goliath Scorpion, I looked at Clan Ice Hellion and something struck me (and it should have done it in Takiro's post): the Flurries units are mentioned in strength and in location in the text but not in the Table of Organisation and Equipment.
Why?
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My theory is that they are third line commands not worthy of such an honor listing. Typically such forces as solhama and police clusters aren't listed in detail and it is eluded to that second (provisional) line troops were held in the same regard before the invasion.
My opinion, I don't care for how they were done in canon such as FM Updates and would rather go a different route. Problem is their low regard at this point in history.
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My opinion, I don't care for how they were done in canon such as FM Updates and would rather go a different route. Problem is their low regard at this point in history.
But it gave us interesting indications on their strength.
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True enough, we could use the first estimate of the Flurry number (FM Crusader Clans) and the second (FM Updates) to create a growth rate for these units. Perhaps this could help us establish a base number in late 3052.
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I will check the figures when I get home.
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Awesome, thanks Ice!
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Field Manual: Crusader Clans, aka 3059 (?): 6 Flurry Clusters (5 % ‘Mechs based) split in two Galaxies
Field Manual Updates, aka 3067:
Alpha Galaxy: 3 Flurry Clusters
Beta Galaxy: 2 Flurry Clusters
Delta Galaxy: 2 Flurry Clusters
Zeta Galaxy: the first to have a Flurry Cluster assigned to it with the addition of several more Trinaries, at least one to each Cluster (does this mean in addition to the first Flurry Cluster)
Zeta Prime Galaxy : 1 Flurry Cluster and 4 Flurry Trinaries assigned to the Galaxy’s 3 ‘Mech Clusters
Theta Galaxy : ?
Meaning they went from 6 to at least 10-11 Clusters.
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So after 8 years they have an additional 10-11 Flurry Clusters. That is an average Flurry growth rate of 1.375 a year.
Simply rolling back 6 Flurry Clusters (FM Crusader Clans says 6) to 3050 (their date of creation) would zero us out by 3053 and that ain't right.
Casualties for large actions is probably a big wildcard as the Hellions likely faced significant counter attacks after their Fury Campaign (3050) and the Territory Wars (early 3060s) following the destruction of Smoke Jaguar, the Ghost Bear relocation, and Nova Cat abjuration would be big factors.
Acceleration could also be another factor if the Clan so deemed the creation of additional Flurry units a priority.
What would you say is a likely overall Flurry number in mid-3052? 2 or 3 Clusters??
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What would you say is a likely overall Flurry number in mid-3052? 2 or 3 Clusters??
They were created with an eye on being quickly operational and filled.
When do we say they were created (I couldn't find any reference)?
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So, I have been doing some research on the Ice Hellion Flurry units or Flurry Clusters as it certainly has bearing here on this discussion. Here are three relevant qoutes, followed by my thoughts, and lastly my conclusions. Please discuss!!
Field Manual: Crusader Clans - Unit Designations - page 79
For similar reasons, unit organization follows the straightforward Clan model among front-line and second-line units, with the exception of a new unit type called the Flurry. (this book page 5 is dated in universe November 19, 3059 in regards to the Flurry being a new unit)
1. This first quote from FM CC reveals that the Flurry is a new unit and that term is applicable in 3059.
Field Manual: Crusader Clans - Flurries - page 80
The Flurry is a new type of unit created to fill a gap opened by the Hellions' Fury campaign. After that campaign's conclusion, Khan Tyler realized that he had overextended his garrison forces in attempting to hold what the Ice Hellions had taken. To compensate for this shortcoming, he commissioned several new units to be formed from whatever battle machines were available-mostly fast attack hovercraft and VTOLs, along with a few scavenged or barely battle-worthy 'Mechs. Next, Khan Tyler offered billets in the new units to all trueborns and freeborns who had failed to test out of the warrior caste. Most trueborns turned down the offer, but many freeborns accepted it. Flurry units are loose groupings of vehicles thrown together to protect an area until regular 'Mech forces arrive. Organized along the same lines as standard Clan units, Flurry units are regarded as little more than cannon fodder; consequently, only the oldest or most disgraced Clan warriors command them. To the surprise of many, some of these ad hoc units have actually begun to show signs of cohesion, even throwing back an occasional attack before the arrival of reinforcements.
Though some maintain that the creation of these units goes against Clan tradition, Khans Tyler and Taney have reassured their fellow Khans that these units will never appear alongside front-line 'Mechs or Elementals. They exist to serve their Clan one last time, and none of their members are expected to survive for long. Currently, the Clan fields roughly six Clusters of Flurry units, divided among two Galaxies and spread throughout Ice Hellion space. Approximately five percent of these units are 'Mech forces, equipped with aging and decrepit models. The remainder are primarily fast hovercraft and VTOLs.
2. This is much meatier and may in conjunction with my next quote narrow down the establishment of the Flurry unit type. It clearly states that Khan (Stephen) Tyler founds them after the Fury campaign in an attempt to hold territory taken during said operation. These gap fillers were then staffed by the same Khan with testdowns and freeborns as a force of last resort - I'd argue Clan third-line in quality on par with Police and Watch Clusters. A very irregular group to say the least.
3. There is also noted 'surprise' and resistance (goes against Clan tradition) which is met with reassurances from 'Khans Tyler and Taney' that they will never serve alongside front-line troops. They are outfitted with subpar equipment which combined with their performance and the fact that most meet a quick death seem to win at least a grudging acceptance.
OTP Revival Trials
Touchpoint: Londerholm - page 38 - Dated June 2, 3050
AFTERMATH
Once the Smoke Jaguar garrison troops realized the Ice Hellions were leading them to the ruins of Vostok, they approached the ruins with a caution bordering on superstition. In the driving rain, a detachment of Coyotes joined them. Unlike the Jaguars, the Coyotes harbored no such compunctions over the locale and took the battle straight to their agitators. Together the Coyotes and Jaguars pressed the attack, intending to make the Ice Hellions pay dearly for costing them territory. The Seventh and the 150th suffered high casualties, but Khan Tyler, saKhan Lienet, and several Hellions managed to slip away to their enclaves once the rain turned into torrential downpour.
Some believe the Smoke Jaguars got their ultimate vengeance in a different way. A few weeks afterward, a bandit raid on the Ice Hellions’ new Londerholm possessions killed Khan Tyler and maimed saKhan Lienet. Although proving that the Jaguars purposely leaked intelligence to bandit caste cells operating on Londerholm is difficult, the timing of the attack seems far too coincidental to ignore.
4. From this last quote we can see that the Hellions final part of Fury occurred in early June 3050 and only 'a few weeks' later Khan Tyler was killed in a bandit raid on Londerholm.
CONCLUSION
I believe this establishes the month of June 3050 (after the 2nd of that month of course) as the birthdate of the Flurries which makes sense if you look at quote 1 which nine years later still refers to them as new.
Could the creation of the Flurry units, even though it doubtlessly contributed to the defense of Hellion territories, contribute to my 'Taney Coup' theory? Doubtlessly Crusaders within the Clan were restless after being shutout of the invasion and now they have to work with 'the dregs of the warrior caste' just in order to hold onto these Homeworld gains. It must have been galling and another reason to knock Khan Stephen Tyler off and get a ristar like Asa Taney in who wants to invade; and not just settle for such lesser glory.
I want to address Quicksilver later but chew on this first guys, what do you think?
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Thanks for reminding me of your post Takiro.
Would 1 Cluster created every and each year be too much?
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Well it would depend Ice but for some reason I think the starting number should be two Flurry Clusters in 3052. That would match up with roughly one a year. I know it is a lot to just appear out of nowhere but I think it is possible. Police Clusters, aging second liners, and perhaps new third chance warriors would be a fit here. Perhaps someone thought of this idea as a way to bolster defenses prior to the Fury campaign?
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A cluster a year really isn't much. Considering they are using older tech predominantly and there is tons of old SLDF equipment to choose from. Throw some freebirths into a short basic training and you could throw together a handful I believe in a year or two
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A cluster a year really isn't much. Considering they are using older tech predominantly and there is tons of old SLDF equipment to choose from. Throw some freebirths into a short basic training and you could throw together a handful I believe in a year or two
I agree.
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Seyla, two Flurry Clusters it shall be for the Ice Hellion Clan as of our fanbook's start with another under formation and near activation. What composition should these units take on? I believe Ice Hellion had some thoughts.
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Seyla, two Flurry Clusters it shall be for the Ice Hellion Clan as of our fanbook's start with another under formation and near activation. What composition should these units take on? I believe Ice Hellion had some thoughts.
Yes I did.
One Cluster could be 3 Trinaries strong with only vehicles (Hover/VTOLs) except in the Command Star where you would have 2 'Mechs, 2 VTOLs and 2 Jump Infantry Points (with transportation).
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Takiro, did you see my answer?
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I did. Is your estimate based on any canon source or just a hunch?
Strictly my mash up would be to have the standards (3 Mech Trinaries, 1 Fighter, 1 Elemental) replaced with 3 Armor Trinaries, 1 VTOL/Conventional Air Trinary, 1 Infantry with some penny packets of Mechs for support.
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as per Field Manual: Crusader Clans, p. 80
A Flurry Cluster is a type of Cluster deployed by Clan Ice Hellion in the wake of the Hellion's Fury Campaign. Having succeeded in quickly acquiring territory throughout the Kerensky Cluster, Hellion Khan Tyler realized his garrisons had been spread too thinly. In order to create new commands quickly, Khan Tyler ordered the creation of Flurry Clusters, which would include a mix of fast combat vehicles (including VTOLs and hovercraft) and the rare salvaged BattleMechs and OmniMechs.
In order to raise the warriors required to form Flurry Clusters, Khan Tyler offered commissions to all Freeborns and Trueborns who had initially failed their Trial of Position. Most trueborns have declined, seeing such a position as more dishonorable than a lower-caste assignment, so Flurry Clusters tend to be made up of freeborn warriors. Flurry Clusters are commanded by bloodnamed warriors deemed too old and inept to command even a Solahma unit.
On the battlefield, Flurries must be able to rapidly respond and delay an adversary unit until regular frontline or secondline units are able to arrive. Unofficially, Flurries are meant to act as cannon fodder engaging the enemy and fighting to the death. Indeed, a warrior assigned to a Flurry is not expected to live long. Because the commanders of Flurry units are considered too undesirable even for a solahma unit, the Flurry is the last chance a Clan Ice Hellion warrior has to die honorably in battle.
so that makes Takrio right
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I did. Is your estimate based on any canon source or just a hunch?
Strictly my mash up would be to have the standards (3 Mech Trinaries, 1 Fighter, 1 Elemental) replaced with 3 Armor Trinaries, 1 VTOL/Conventional Air Trinary, 1 Infantry with some penny packets of Mechs for support.
Both. According to canon, 'Mechs are limited to 5% of the total forces and since we discussed about the composition, I changed my original idea to reflect our previous discussion.
As for a Conventional Air unit, I hesitated but I don't remember reading anything about the Clans using them, so I let it go.
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So under that math (15 stars total in a cluster equals 100% and just 5% can be Mechs) I come back with .75 as an answer or just 4 BattleMechs per Flurry Cluster at most. Translation not even a star. Sound right to you guys??
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So under that math (15 stars total in a cluster equals 100% and just 5% can be Mechs) I come back with .75 as an answer or just 4 BattleMechs per Flurry Cluster at most. Translation not even a star. Sound right to you guys??
Yes but I don't know why I felt it was better to go the Composite Star way, perhaps to add a little something different from the usual and still provide the Flurry Clusters with some holding position potential (after all they were created for that).
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You think the Mechs would be grouped together or the possession of the Cluster and Trinary Commanders??
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From an efficiency point of view, I would say grouped together but these are the Clans... No I still think they can see the light sometimes and enforce something like that.
However, the Cluster Commander would probably be for one of the 'MechWarriors.
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Well as a general principle I believe all equipment (Mechs, Fighters, Battlearmor, etc) is assigned by the Clan (i.e. the Khan or your unit commander) then any disputes are resolved by combat. While four Mechs would likely be more effective when grouped together it is just as possible that they could be split by Trinary Commanders. We should probably play it both ways with the two Flurry Clusters we outline here.
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Well as a general principle I believe all equipment (Mechs, Fighters, Battlearmor, etc) is assigned by the Clan (i.e. the Khan or your unit commander) then any disputes are resolved by combat. While four Mechs would likely be more effective when grouped together it is just as possible that they could be split by Trinary Commanders. We should probably play it both ways with the two Flurry Clusters we outline here.
I gave it a thought but saw it as a waste of resources but what else can we expect from 3rd rate Warriors? ;)