OBT Forum
General BattleTech => Alternate Universe => Salient Horizon => Topic started by: Takiro on August 06, 2017, 10:45:50 AM
-
Hey folks,
Right now my friends and I are playing a campaign in my unfolding alternate universe circa 3052 set on Solaris. I will detail their first 6 cycles as we go but they started out in the 'minor leagues' fighting each other for 'Mechs and establishing their gladiatorial reputations in the Reaches.
Almost twenty years ago we campaigned in a similar fashion and went right to a tournament style championship series where player characters dueled the top competition for the top spots.
Using these experiences and drawing on what I can find out here I wanted to move forward with this new campaign.
Also what of canon material; is there a novel that details how the games are structured and/or how the Grand Tournament works? I have most of the sourcebooks as well as the Black Thorns book eluding to Lance Championships and other Stables. What do we know of other competitions on the Game Worlds??
-
Um. I have some stuff, but I'm about to head out to a movie for the kids then camping for four days. When do you need it?
I presume you checked Sarna as well? Reread the novels? I was giving stuff away, I'm not sure I have everything for Solaris anymore, but I've been switching to pdf, so I may have some. I may have to rely on memory for the novels.
-
Not a problem Red Pins. Just looking to talk Solaris. Any House Campaigning you've done would be cool cause I'm always looking for new ideas. Canon sources would be great too. I'm sure we will be here when u get back. Look forward to hearing from you then. Have fun!
-
I remember the supplement Solaris VII: The Game World.
-
Well Ice I have the following books on Solaris which are direct canon sources for our discussion;
Solaris VII: The Game World (Players Book) [FASA1660]
Solaris VII: The Game World (Gamemaster's Book) [FASA1660]
Solaris: The Reaches [FASA1659]
MechWarrior's Guide of Solaris VII [FASA1716]
Classic BattleTech *Mappack* Solaris VII [FANPRO35002]
I actually just purchased the last one about a month ago. I didn't even now they had written a sourcebook that updated the Game World for 3067. Discovered it while browsing BattleTechWiki. Is there any other material we should have on hand when discussing Solaris??
-
The Warrior Trilogy has some information about Solaris in the 3028 era.
-
Thanks Irose, I'll have to take a look on my kindle at the Warrior Trilogy. I assume it involves Kai's father on Solaris.
-
There was also the fun product based on Disney characters which was based on Solaris
That was based in 3140s though but did detail arenas
-
Thanks Irose, I'll have to take a look on my kindle at the Warrior Trilogy. I assume it involves Kai's father on Solaris.
The sections involved Justin and Grey Norton. It did have several scenes in the arenas and as I recall a bit about how the mechs were checked before battles.
-
Cool Dragon Cat, do u have a name for the product? Is it canon or a fan product??
Thanks again Irose! I was looking for some structural information on the Games. How are they organized? When do the Tournaments run every year? How long do Gladiators have to build their reputation before competing in the big time events??
-
Classic BattleTech *Mappack* Solaris VII [FANPRO35002]
There are details on how the Games are played and how people are qualifying in this book.
-
Thanks Ice, I am taking a look now. ;)
What are your guys thoughts of Mercenary Units being a fourth type of Solaris organization? I know you have Stables, Cooperatives, and Gangs but what happens if a merc group wants to partake in the games? Would they need a 'gladiatorial license' of some type or some endorsement I am missing?
-
IIRC, Solaris VII was a minor hiring world.
Also, get out of my head. I've been thinking about a merc unit on Solaris VII using it as a recruiting/training world
-
IIRC, Solaris VII was a minor hiring world.
Also, get out of my head. I've been thinking about a merc unit on Solaris VII using it as a recruiting/training world
I think that trade died during Jihad
Takiro XTRO Royal Fantasy
-
Thanks Dragon Cat, I went to the Catalyst Games Store and download the free PDF. Looks like a fun little supplement. Of particular interest is the Tournament listed in the back. I wonder could this be a take on the Grand Tournament?? Among the sources I looked up was FM: Mercenaries Revised [FANPRO10977] and on page 16 under The Solaris Games it says the "Big Five Days" - The Grand Tournament - are the most important of all. Now if you relate the three day Tournament detailed to a potential five day tournament held at five different arenas some structure falls into place. Does anyone have more info on the Grand Tournament?
I make no guarantee Abele, please fire away on your thoughts.
Researching old sources led me to MechWarrior 2nd Edition page 131 entitled The Games which is revealing. The first paragraph tells you a bunch about mercenaries going to Solaris. "Scores of struggling units, battalion-sized or smaller, who fight day after day and year after year, half the time not knowing where their next meal or load of spare parts will come from. Sooner or later, many of these warriors become so desperate for cash that they travel to Solaris VII to try their luck at the games." Now that tells me that battalion-sized (which I believe are the rare exception) and smaller size company, lance, or even individual mercs are the more common size 'units' to come to Solaris. Often on their last legs looking to hit it big before their fate catches up to them. Like playing the lotto or worse these dreamers likely don't often win.
Paragraph two gives us a rowdy frontier world which is accurate but also speaks of a planet which has switched hands frequently which is not correct. It has been fought over obviously but I can only remember the one time which the planet changed hands from Marik to Steiner. It speaks of a planetary government which sponsors the Games but doesn't give any details. What type of government does Solaris have? I can't find a ruling noble which is unusual for the InnerSphere to say the least. I would have expecting the Lyrans to have installed at least a figurehead planetary ruler after taking it from House Marik.
Paragraph three says a few details on fighting itself. There is a 5,000 C-Bill entry fee and the loser must pay the winner a ransom a 100,000 C-Bills plus losing hurts your reputation obviously. Then there is the Purse which is a topic I wanted to hit on. Here it says the winnings are based on total number of entrants with a contestant needing to win seven to nine total matches for a championship. Contestants also receive salvage rights on all 'Mechs they destroy in combat. So in all battles do the winners take all? I thought more established matches like the Grand Tournament don't have Mechwarriors risk their ride per say with winners taking just money and not necessarily the defeated person's Mech. Is that correct?
The last two paragraphs give some loose adventure seeds for GMs and players looking to role play on the Game World. This hits on the various underworld activities from gambling to the rest plus Successor State intrigue from rival spies and law enforcement agencies. I also think a big part of Solaris is the Media too. After all coverage and distributing everything that the planet does must be a huge angle. Wonder if ComStar was behind the growth here? Did their News Bureau always play up the Games to the InnerSphere over the HPG network? If not it would be a major business opportunity for others which I can't believe would be overlooked.
What do you think guys?
-
It's worth mentioning that during the 3SW the practise of ransoming a damaged 'Mech back from the victor was common. While there's probably variations between different tournaments and leagues, I'd think that the loser paying the victor would typically be in lieu of surrendering their 'Mech. (How those rights are affected if the Mechwarrior dies is another question that probably keeps lawyers happy).
Also there would be a difference between contests between owner-operators and contests between stables, which are more organised and less likely to risk their equipment. The 'big league' we see Justin and Kai competing in, located in Solaris City and with the annual champion of Solaris VII, must sit atop a hierarchy of lesser tournaments and leagues that prove additional spectacle between the big events and lets the major stables recruit talent rather than having to try out unknowns.
There would also be novelty matches like the one from the first Black Thorn novel, where the 'Mechs had all had their weapons disabled. Like most things on Solaris, the rules are the result of negotiation and change over time.
The Mechwarrior's Guide lists a surrender bond which is lost only of a Mechwarrior surrenders, not if he loses. It describes leagues, where each Mechwarrior fights each other Mechwarrior and winning is a matter of points accumulated across the season (3 for a win, 1 for a draw, 0 for a loss) and compares it to championship matches which operate elimination tournament style, either single elimination or triple elimination (best of 3).
The Grand Tournament likely picks contenders from some form of league arrangement with the top Mechwarriors in the league placed into the tournament and seeded according to their ranks (highest scoring start paired against lowest scoring, etc.). A five day schedule suggests single elimination matches starting with 32 Mechwarriors (the format would be very similar to Clan Trials of Bloodright, and might be where Nicholas Kerensky derived the notion), which is cut to 16 by the second round, 8 for the third round, 4 for the fourth (semi-finals) and then there are two contenders left for the final match on the fifth day.
If the matches all take place in the five Class Six arenas, it would probably be difficult to operate more than 2 matches a day for the arenas so the schedule is likely something along the lines of:
Day 1: first ten matches of round 1 with each arena hosting two.
Day 2: remaining six matches of round 1, first four matches from round 2
Day 3: remaining four or more matches of round 2, all four matches from round 3
Day 4: 2 semi-final matches
Day 5: 1 final matches
However this would have some flexibility: if a match is a draw the customs seems to be to re-fight it, so any draws on Day 1 would get refought on Day 2, which could push round 2 matches back (in the unlikely event that more than 4 rematchs are needed I'd expect alternate arenas to be available since otherwise it overflows). Then on Day 3 rematchs from Day 2 take place - which can push the round 3 matches back. This could get pretty gruelling since it could leave someone fighting twice in a day (actually quite likely on Day 3 or 4 depending on slot).
An alternative would be for there to be only 16 participants with 3 days of fights and 2 days 'slack' between them:
Day 1: eight first round matches
Day 2: rest-day (barring rematches)
Day 3: four quarter-final matches
Day 4: rest-day (barring rematches)
Day 5: semi-finals and finals
-
I remember reading that there were something for the low on luck 'MechWarriors.
There is also the Solaran League of Independent Stables.
-
Great post drak! The Leagues as detailed once in Mechwarrior’s Guide to Solaris as pointed out by Ice Hellion remind me a lot of boxing and its different organizations/associations. They have their own requirements, champions, and list of contenders but I suppose it looks a lot like other sports organizations as well with Stables/Cooperatives taking the place of Franchises/Teams. The point system for wins, losses, and draws reminds me of hockey.
Twenty years ago, when I did our home version of the Grand Tournament we did Five Cup Series Tournaments held at each of the Big Five Arenas in Solaris City. After each Cup the rankings would be reviewed based on individual performances. Since we had the same winner for every one of these Tournaments it wasn’t hard figuring out the Champion that year.
Given the information I have so far reviewed your Grand Tournament organization looks solid. I’d probably go with 32 contenders just like a Trial of Bloodname. It is probably organized by some central organization rather than a League. The Top 20 are likely automatically entered every year with the remaining dozen slots going to various Tournament Champions or perhaps a few Play In Events.
I intend to have injury play a bigger part in the Games much like it factors into today’s sports with Mechwarrior hits having an effect on participants. Maybe a gladiator who is forced to take a year off or miss a Tournament altogether. I still have to find out when the Grand Tournament is held, what time of year?
I have to read up on novels which feature Solaris prominently again like the Warrior Trilogy. I don’t have the Black Thorns book but I do have their sourcebook which features Lance Matches. Then there is that one where the Games spill out into the streets during the FedCom Civil War.
I tried to look into the Planetary Government of Solaris again today and really didn’t find anything except the Solaris City Civil Council. Any ideas? Also I am surprised that the International Zone isn’t run by ComStar. I am thinking of renaming it something other than the International Zone too, any ideas??
-
Solaris: The Reaches mentions there's a civic council for Solaris City which is under the control of the Great Houses.
The Mechwarrior's Guide to Solaris VII focuses on the influence of corporations with Solaris City initially having two national 'zones' around the Lyran and Free Worlds League corporations.
This suggests to me that the government of Solaris VII is deliberately kept weak by corporation and the Great Houses in order to ensure nothing interferes in their influence over the thriving economy of Solaris VII.
-
That very well could be drak. It amazes me that there are so little specifics on Solaris after having so much being written about it.
It seems to me like the planetary government is almost under the direct rule of the Archon who leaves it alone so to speak. The Lyrans are definitely in control with the final say on things but aside from leaving a garrison on planet do little unless provoked.
I'd have to agree with your suggestions drak that the government of Solaris is deliberately kept weak by whomever runs it. This could have been a deliberate decision by the Lyrans when they conquered the planet from the Free Worlds League. Often times during the Succession Wars the Great Houses often kept the status quo after conquering a planet. I wonder if they just kept whatever system the Mariks setup?
Sounds like the natives had no love of the Free Worlds League especially after their botched attempts to retake the planet resulted in a bunch of collateral damage. Likely any who wish a return moved to Montenegro but you never know.
In regards to corporations who maybe the real power behind the scenes I haven't seen mention of two national zones around Lyran and Marik companies but that could very well be. I would think after the Steiner conquest of Solaris that any Lyran Commonwealth interest would win out over those of the Free Worlds. However the coming of the Clans could change some of that calculation requiring the overlords of Solaris to invite new investors from just across the border.
Also seems to be a lot of refugee activity on Solaris with Rasalhague denizens coming here to settle during the Clan War.
-
I'd have to agree with your suggestions drak that the government of Solaris is deliberately kept weak by whomever runs it.
Or they were just forced to do so by the military corporations that used Solaris as their test ground since before the fall of the Star League.