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Author Topic: Quicksilver Decisions  (Read 30171 times)

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JPArbiter

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2014, 11:59:15 PM »
Quote from: Takiro on July 15, 2014, 04:38:24 PM
Quote from: Abele on July 15, 2014, 12:43:30 PM
The 45-ton range seems to be croded as well. The Ice Ferret and Grendel fill the Werewolf role, while the Shadow Cat can fill the assailant role, so that leaves us with the Zombie for that weight

Yup that is the next issue Abele at 45 tons.

The Ice Ferret (Fenris) introduced by Clan Wolf in 2948 is the oldest and fastest design (360XL makes it go 8/12) among this group. The engine is an interesting point cause it can be used on several upcoming designs including the Black Mamba (or the Blood Asp as it is known in canon). The 7.5 tons of Ferro Fibrous armor plating give the same armor value of 144 that the Mongrel has which is greater than the Shadow Cat. However 9.5 tons of pod space is pretty light for weapons and equipment.
The Ice Ferret is definitely a Werewolf or Speedster type OmniMech but is age and the fact that this machine lacks mobility (jump jets) be its downfall?

Next we have the Mongrel (Grendel) which debuted at the Battle of Tukayyid with Clan Diamond Shark. While it won't enter full scale production till next year (3053) this OmniMech could fill either the Werewolf (Speedster) or Vampire (Assailant) types for the 45 ton weight range. Its 315 XL engine gives the capable of 7/11 speed which when added to the mobility of 7 integral jump jets make it quite formidable. It possesses the same 7.5 tons of Ferro Fibrous that give it an armor value of 144 identical to the Ice Ferret and slightly more than the Shadow Cat. 13.5 tons of pod space is a clear advantage over the Ice Ferret but is less than the Shadow Cat. So this machine could compete with both the Ice Ferret and the Shadow Cat for either role within the Clans touman. Or could the Sharks poor performance on Tukayyid doom this new design?

Finally the Shadow Cat first produced by Clan Nova Cat in 3003 is a very capable design probably my favorite in the 45 ton weight range. Certainly this is a Vampire (Assailant) type machine with a 270 XL engine providing it a 6/9 movement profile combined with 6 jump jets for extra mobility. While this OmniMech features the lowest amount of protection with 7 tons of Ferro Fibrous armor plating giving it an armor value of 134 that is not its strength. 17 tons of pod space make this a dangerous Medium weight opponent on the battlefield. Could it be overcome by the Mongrel??

So yes while Quicksilver 7 will address the need for a Zombie at this weight class but lets not jump ahead of ourselves. What would your choice be and tell me why.

1. Is it the Ice Ferret or the Mongrel for the Werewolf (Speedster) role?

2. is it the Mongrel or the Shadow Cat for the Vampire (Assailant) role?

Shadow Cat Stays and I will fight on behalf of Clan Nova Cat in a Trial of Refusal against any who disagree! (Throws Knife into the ground)
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Abele

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2014, 01:40:02 AM »
1. Mongrel over the Ice Ferret due to its fixed jump jets and 3 (or so) extra tons of pod space for weapons. Even as ab XL that 360 still eats up alot of weight.

2. Shadowcat as the Mongrel is now the Werewolf
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drakensis

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2014, 03:20:34 AM »
I'm inclined to consider all 3 designs Werewolves. Once we reach the 45 tons level, even 6/9 is straying into the speed focus side. These are Medium 'Mechs, not lights. 17 tons of pod-space  is only 1 ton more than a Kit Fox that's only 2/3 the size. Neither the Mongrel nor the Shadow Cat really qualify in the Vampire category - only 37% pod-space?
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Abele

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2014, 05:57:25 AM »
I've got a 45-tonner in the works that has 22 tons of pod space. It could have more if I made it a 5/8 mover. There's another I'm working that has 20 tons on a 45-ton chassis. Of course, this may all go for naught, if there is no new assailant design to be built.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 05:57:44 AM by Abele »
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The Honor of Men cannot be bound by the words of Fools- Marco Hietala
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2014, 06:31:30 AM »
Quote from: JPArbiter on July 15, 2014, 11:59:15 PM
Shadow Cat Stays and I will fight on behalf of Clan Nova Cat in a Trial of Refusal against any who disagree! (Throws Knife into the ground)

Very Clan response, I like it!

Drakensis and Abele I understand how you feel but the choice stands. As you recall the Mist Lynx (Koshi) was the first difficult choice the ilKhan had to make. While a better design was very possible the Mist Lynx was kept as the Vampire (Assailant) for several good reasons. Again the Clans are limited in regard to resources so working with what they have is necessary. They are many new designs to incorporate and I imagine these compromises will be the first to go in the next wave of new Clan manufacturing. The Mist Lynx was also kept for a political reason to mollify the Smoke Jaguars who produce it. Yes the degree to which that is possible is very arguable but something had to be done to keep fairness in play with regards to Quicksilver. So with that said I'd still appreciate your opinion on the original question.

Quote
1. Is it the Ice Ferret or the Mongrel for the Werewolf (Speedster) role?

2. is it the Mongrel or the Shadow Cat for the Vampire (Assailant) role?
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JPArbiter

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2014, 10:00:53 AM »
Quote from: drakensis on July 16, 2014, 03:20:34 AM
I'm inclined to consider all 3 designs Werewolves. Once we reach the 45 tons level, even 6/9 is straying into the speed focus side. These are Medium 'Mechs, not lights. 17 tons of pod-space  is only 1 ton more than a Kit Fox that's only 2/3 the size. Neither the Mongrel nor the Shadow Cat really qualify in the Vampire category - only 37% pod-space?

as I said, I don't care what Catagory the Shadow Cat is in, but it will Remain in active manufacture!  no Freebirth like you will take it away!

Out of character, it is feasible to throw any and all existing designs as insufficient for various reasons.  Lord knows I would chuck the Crossbow and Loki at the first chance.  the other side of it is a possibility of redesigning extant designs to better meet the Inner Sphere.  Picture what would have happened had the Loki, Vulture and Thor MK II's were avalaible at the invasion?
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2014, 04:23:47 PM »
Well I am inclined to keep the Shadow Cat as the Assailant of the 45 tonner even though less than half of its tonnage is reserved for pod space (closer if you took the jump jets out but I like the design, very solid) and the Ice Ferret aka the Fenris as the Speedster. Besides the Mongrel (Grendel) has yet to enter production and perhaps could be redesigned as a Zombie??
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drakensis

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2014, 01:47:29 AM »
Quote from: JPArbiter on July 16, 2014, 10:00:53 AM
Quote from: drakensis on July 16, 2014, 03:20:34 AM
I'm inclined to consider all 3 designs Werewolves. Once we reach the 45 tons level, even 6/9 is straying into the speed focus side. These are Medium 'Mechs, not lights. 17 tons of pod-space  is only 1 ton more than a Kit Fox that's only 2/3 the size. Neither the Mongrel nor the Shadow Cat really qualify in the Vampire category - only 37% pod-space?

as I said, I don't care what Catagory the Shadow Cat is in, but it will Remain in active manufacture!  no Freebirth like you will take it away!

Out of character, it is feasible to throw any and all existing designs as insufficient for various reasons.  Lord knows I would chuck the Crossbow and Loki at the first chance.  the other side of it is a possibility of redesigning extant designs to better meet the Inner Sphere.  Picture what would have happened had the Loki, Vulture and Thor MK II's were avalaible at the invasion?
Stravag scum. I challenge you to a trial of grievance for this insult!



Shadow Cat is closest to a decent vampire. And keep the Ice Ferret as werewolf: there's no point bringing the Mongrel in when the Ice Ferret's in use already on a much larger scale.
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Abele

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2014, 02:17:05 AM »
I've done a little bit of research and have discovered that this is going to get monotonous for a stretch as I see very lttle opportunity to design Vampires or Werewolves. Zombie options are available in nearly every weight class from here on out (65 tons is covered by the Crossbow, which is a weak design, IMO), but the other two seem to be well-stocked for the foreseeable future. I'm wondering what Takiro has in store for us. I'd like  able to bring in more of the Assailant-friendly Clans in sooner than later.

Heck, I just finished rough designs all the way out to the 100 tonners in the categories that I think will be posted by Takiro and I'm sure that there is opportunity for older designs to be replaced (Hellbringer) or newer ones to be scrapped (Crossbow). I am still looking forward to the coming challenges, but I'm getting a bit bored with the Zombie clans.
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May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies. - Voltaire
Chaos doesn't need a recipe, just a list of ingredients. - Drakensis
Kachi ni Fushigi no Kachi Ari. Make ni Fushigi no Make Nashi
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2014, 06:30:15 AM »
JP name your favor the Trail

Abele so far Quicksilver has seen a bunch of Light weight Zombies which does directly correspond to a critical need for the Clans especially if we expect to win the war versus the barbarians of the InnerSphere. Growth of the warrior caste must be rapid to in order to garrison what Revival has taken and to counter the one advantage the corrupt House Lords have numbers. I say more warriors mean greater battles and more challenges which indicate glorious days lay just ahead. Any surat who contends otherwise is simply afraid his codex does not measure up to these legendary times just on the horizon.  ;)
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JPArbiter

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2014, 10:44:46 AM »
Also since the Nova is out of production, I favor removing it entirely from consideration.  the Huntsman can take it's place.
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masterarminas

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2014, 11:00:15 AM »
Quote from: JPArbiter on July 17, 2014, 10:44:46 AM
Also since the Nova is out of production, I favor removing it entirely from consideration.  the Huntsman can take it's place.

Agreed.

MA
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JPArbiter

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2014, 02:19:29 PM »
Quote from: Takiro on July 17, 2014, 06:30:15 AM
JP name your favor the Trail


TEQUILA!
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2014, 04:39:08 PM »
Quote from: JPArbiter on July 17, 2014, 10:44:46 AM
Also since the Nova is out of production, I favor removing it entirely from consideration.  the Huntsman can take it's place.

3rd always disliked the Nova Huntsman far more balanced
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Decisions
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2014, 10:01:14 PM »
Wow, I was holding back on the fifties but you guys are quite right. I did not realize the Black Hawk was out of production. Really makes the Huntsman a shoe in huh. Reviewing both designs I think the Huntsman is better anyways so it works out.  ;)
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