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Author Topic: Analyzing the TRAS  (Read 12601 times)

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Takiro

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Analyzing the TRAS
« on: September 27, 2021, 03:03:56 PM »
This thread will go hand in hand with the Exodus Redux which could possibly add to the strength of the Terran Regency Armed Services (TRAS). CAT35235 - Historical First Succession War gives us the basis for this analysis per new canon (2016) under Those Left Behind (pages 32 to 36). Our original assumption Fanbook 01 - Field Manual: Terran Republic 2785 mainly took all the SLDF commands who were marked as unknown (except a select few like the 295th) and counted them as Terran. In hindsight perhaps this was a bit of overkill considering ComStar would have had 80 plus BattleMech regiments.

ComStar Expeditionary Forces (43 regiments) [remain as the core of the revised TRAS]
151st Royal BattleMech Division (Ulysses S. Grant Division)
213th BattleMech Division (The Carver Division)
287th BattleMech Division (Tobruk Division)
326th Royal BattleMech Division (The Mantuffel Division)
13th Royal Infantry Division (the Superstition Division)
79th Mechanized Infantry Division
123rd Mechanized Infantry Division
184th Mechanized Infantry Division
197th Mechanized Infantry Division (The Florida Swamp Foxes)
89th Dragoon Regiment
3rd Strike Regiment
231st Striker Regiment
321st Hussar Regiment

MIA Units (30 regiments) [disappeared into the unknown in new canon, so these would be directly subtracted from the total available forces now]
359th BattleMech Division
280th Mechanized Infantry Division
272nd Mechanized Infantry Division
126th Mechanized Infantry Division (The Bullfighters of Seville)
173rd Mechanized Infantry Division
54th Mechanized Infantry Division
31st Infantry Division
90th Dragoon Regiment
509th Battle Regiment
242nd Hussar Regiment
9th Royal CAAN Marine Regiment
997th Striker Regiment
277th Dragoon Regiment

Lexington Combat Group (3) [originally assumed to be ad hoc commands, now we have three regiments to take away from the original TRAS]
38th Dragoon Regiment
238th Striker Regiment
167th Light Horse Regiment

Really Unknown Units (2) [No idea where these two units went, not sure what to do with them]
211th Hussar Regiment
349th Dragoon Regiment

Terran Rebuild or Activated Planetary Militias
160th BattleMech Division (Sirius Division) [the Sirian Lancers in the original TRAS, Terran rebuild, could this be a model for other units?]
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masterarminas

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2021, 07:23:25 PM »
Biggest problem that I have is that it is said specifically that the ComStar Expeditionary Force consisted of seventeen Divisions and fourteen Independent Regiments.

Sure, you could cut those numbers for the TRAS, but I wouldn't.  After all, none of those should be anywhere near full-strength (pre-Coup).  Perhaps they should be (after all, if I was Commanding General I would have merged Divisions and Regiments to bring those that would remain on the rosters back to full-strength, even if I had to fold the colors of a (fairly large) number of storied and distinguished units), but I kind of doubt that they were.

And recruiting and rebuilding the SLDF was not a top priority (or any kind of priority!) for the Star League Council in the aftermath of the Liberation of Terra!

My own thoughts?  Use all seventeen Divisions and fourteen Regiments, but have them around 54-55% of  their nominal "book" strength.  That would give you the numbers you want, but with keeping the units that must have comprised the CSEF.

Now, you could merge some Divisions and Regiments in Shattered Dawn, cutting those numbers down to where you are aiming for and it would still account for all of them.  Just say that the (for example) the 328th and 359th BattleMech Divisions were merged with the 151st Royal, 213th, and 295th Division bringing the 151st and 213th up to 100% TO&E strength and the 295th to 75%.  Takes less than a paragraph and neatly explains where the other units went (of course, choose your own survivors from the list).  You can even steal man, material, and equipment from a Mech Infantry Division to bring that third BMD back up to 100%.

That way you could get nine Divisions at full strength (or nearly full strength) and still stay true with what has been published.
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Takiro

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2021, 08:33:33 AM »
Quote from: masterarminas on September 27, 2021, 07:23:25 PM
Biggest problem that I have is that it is said specifically that the ComStar Expeditionary Force consisted of seventeen Divisions and fourteen Independent Regiments.

That is an excellent point masterarminas. Unfortunately that is old canon information from FM ComStar (published in 1999) which (grumble grumble) is paved over by this new canon information from  the 1st Succession War Sourcebook (published in 2016). Additionally you could perhaps reason ComStar wanted to inflate its strength circa 2780s by boasting increased numbers of unknown SLDF units to deter aggression from the Great Houses. I have more on this but I'll save it for my conclusion.

Quote from: masterarminas on September 27, 2021, 07:23:25 PM
Sure, you could cut those numbers for the TRAS, but I wouldn't.  After all, none of those should be anywhere near full-strength (pre-Coup).  Perhaps they should be (after all, if I was Commanding General I would have merged Divisions and Regiments to bring those that would remain on the rosters back to full-strength, even if I had to fold the colors of a (fairly large) number of storied and distinguished units), but I kind of doubt that they were.

And recruiting and rebuilding the SLDF was not a top priority (or any kind of priority!) for the Star League Council in the aftermath of the Liberation of Terra!

My own thoughts?  Use all seventeen Divisions and fourteen Regiments, but have them around 54-55% of  their nominal "book" strength.  That would give you the numbers you want, but with keeping the units that must have comprised the CSEF.

Now, you could merge some Divisions and Regiments in Shattered Dawn, cutting those numbers down to where you are aiming for and it would still account for all of them.  Just say that the (for example) the 328th and 359th BattleMech Divisions were merged with the 151st Royal, 213th, and 295th Division bringing the 151st and 213th up to 100% TO&E strength and the 295th to 75%.  Takes less than a paragraph and neatly explains where the other units went (of course, choose your own survivors from the list).  You can even steal man, material, and equipment from a Mech Infantry Division to bring that third BMD back up to 100%.

That way you could get nine Divisions at full strength (or nearly full strength) and still stay true with what has been published.

My conclusion is very different. Ever dutiful General Kerensky managed to keep his units at pre-war strength and returned them to their pre-war duty stations as ordered only by demobilizing others. I agree the House Lords allotted no resources to restoring them to operation whatsoever and all evidence I have uncovered has the SLDF cannibalizing assets in order to survive. He dutifully and willfully obeyed the High Council's orders until their dissolution of that governing body on August 12, 2781. Right up until the Exodus plan was hatched (say late 2783) he went above and beyond shuttling between the House Lords (i.e. capitals of the Great Houses) to get the High Council to reconvene. The final straw were his objections to the House Lords recruiting SLDF commands to their cause (backing their claim to the First Lordship) to which they responded by stripping him of his rank as Commanding General. This act stripping him of rank is clearly not recognized and we could argue about the authority of a body which has dissolved itself two years prior but hey.

So, the SLDF only has the resources it can draw upon directly which is probably in the occupied Rim Worlds Republic (not occupied by the Lyrans) and the Terran Hegemony (not occupied by the Houses). Now in this scenario you have a central Terran authority (which in canon you did not) which is trying to restore itself which cuts into the SLDF's strength even more. Sinclair does get into trouble with Kerensky trying to strengthen the Royal Commands and Militias (grown in canon - these units on New Dallas and Inglesmond are grown at this time) leading to his resignation from the SLDF prior to the Exodus. Clearly you have a push pull between the realist Terran agenda and the idealist Star League agenda at this time. Original TRAS restores the Sirian Lancers to strength referring to rebuilding 160th BattleMech Division (Sirius Division) at this time which is clearly a different interpretation from canon which could site a Sirian Militia. In any event this is growth of Militias is another avenue we could take to bolstering Terran commands at this time. I'm still researching SLDF defections from the Exodus to the Regency which would happen but what unit growth would be possible for the Terran state at this time.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2021, 09:44:56 AM »
Just throwing it out there because they don't say where these guys went. But in canon aren't the real Amanda and Ian Cameron supposedly smuggled off world in a warship and disappear somewhere into the periphery. Would be interesting thing to say that there is a SLDF in exile with Ian as the head for future storyline events.
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masterarminas

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2021, 02:31:41 PM »
The problem is, in my own opinion at least, is that there are not anywhere near enough demobilized or disbanded units in the SLDF roster (Star League Handbook) to support the rest being anything close to full strength.

The Liberation of Terra was a blood-bath on both sides and I just can't see many units coming out of that with close to their nominal TO&E strength.  Sure, you can argue that he broke up several divisions and regiments . . . but those numbers are just a drop in the bucket compared to the casualties they took and the equipment they lost.  You can, of course, presume that the units listed as "Destroyed" had some survivors (say, 10-15%) and those were folded into other units, but that is nothing like what would be required to get the surviving elements of the SLDF post-Liberation back up to full strength.

Not without breaking up formations and using them as replacements in other units.

At least that is how I see it.  Your own mileage may differ.
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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2021, 03:06:29 PM »
Quote from: masterarminas on September 28, 2021, 02:31:41 PM
The problem is, in my own opinion at least, is that there are not anywhere near enough demobilized or disbanded units in the SLDF roster (Star League Handbook) to support the rest being anything close to full strength.

The Liberation of Terra was a blood-bath on both sides and I just can't see many units coming out of that with close to their nominal TO&E strength.  Sure, you can argue that he broke up several divisions and regiments . . . but those numbers are just a drop in the bucket compared to the casualties they took and the equipment they lost.  You can, of course, presume that the units listed as "Destroyed" had some survivors (say, 10-15%) and those were folded into other units, but that is nothing like what would be required to get the surviving elements of the SLDF post-Liberation back up to full strength.

Not without breaking up formations and using them as replacements in other units.

At least that is how I see it.  Your own mileage may differ.

+1
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Bradshaw

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2021, 03:20:06 PM »
Quote from: masterarminas on September 28, 2021, 02:31:41 PM

Not without breaking up formations and using them as replacements in other units.

At least that is how I see it.  Your own mileage may differ.


One could say some of the units that were destroyed weren't lost 100% and instead consolidated into other units.
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masterarminas

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2021, 04:03:21 PM »
Quote from: Bradshaw on September 28, 2021, 03:20:06 PM
Quote from: masterarminas on September 28, 2021, 02:31:41 PM

Not without breaking up formations and using them as replacements in other units.

At least that is how I see it.  Your own mileage may differ.


One could say some of the units that were destroyed weren't lost 100% and instead consolidated into other units.

Agreed.  Few units are completely (100%) annihilated . . . although that does happen from time to time.  However, if a Division takes the kind of casualties that it would be considered destroyed, I can't see more than 10-20% of the combat elements of the formation surviving.  There might well be more in the support/supply/logistical elements, but the combat elements had to have taken pretty severe casualties. 
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Bradshaw

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2021, 04:06:55 PM »
I could see quite a few paper units. Units that are existing on paper but not yet rebuilt 100% or not even rebuilt yet entirely. It would help throw enemy intelligences off on actual military strength.
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Takiro

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2021, 04:43:09 PM »
I agree masterarminas with your assessment. Unit remnants can only take you so far. You'd also have to calculate salvaged equipment and recovered personnel (WIA returning to service) before we get to actual replacements. If you reread my original FM Terran Republic I talk about how old the core of the SLDF would be by the time of the Exodus (the Amaris or Star League Civil War stretched 14 years!) and efforts to train/equip new recruits were likely insufficient resulting in the core force being older (say mid-30s at the youngest).

After the conflict you could factor in the Volunteer Regiments as well who wished to remain in the SLDF but I am talking about newly manufactured equipment and recruits. I'd say the Houses would help supply the SLDF right up until the completion of Operation Liberation. Equipment would have to be somehow purchased from those sources but the occupied Rim Worlds and liberated Hegemony could help in that aspect as well as recruits. Following the defeat of Amaris any resupply of the SLDF by the Great Houses would cease especially after the dissolution of the Council. So my question to you guys is what is the replacement factor up to the conclusion of Operation Liberation on September 29th 2779? Then to the dissolution of the High Council on August 12, 2781? After that any support for the SLDF would be cut and only the liberated Hegemony and occupied Rim Worlds would be supply sources.

Now for Terran growth at this same time in canon my question is what can the reasonable rate of growth could there be? Militias like New Dallas (3 Mech regiments), Inglsemond (multiple Mech regiments), and units like the Sirian Lancers show that there are large planetary/regional units that grew in canon at this time even while the SLDF is soaking up supplies. These forces often used war machines discarded by the SLDF considered too old or tainted (Rim Worlds) for some reason. A better run Terran national recovery by Amanda Cameron and Ian Sinclair could bolster this growth here somewhat in the Shattered Dawn setting.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2021, 07:35:50 PM »
Rim Worlds has already been acquired by the Lyran's I was reading about the Republic-Commonwealth War there ain't shit there really for the Star League by the time Terra is freed.
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Takiro

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2021, 08:14:16 PM »
The Lyrans did take alot but not all of the Republic. Some of the Rim's industry are below. Think there is more.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Diplass_Technologies

I wonder what kind of salvage the SLDF took from the Periphery BattleMech Divisions?
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Bradshaw

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2021, 10:04:18 PM »
70 worlds were taken before Kerensky got them to slow down only to còntinue again

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Republic-Commonwealth_War

I doubt they took much as they still had forces to fight LC
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Takiro

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2021, 11:02:49 AM »
I will gather more info on that conflict going forward as new information directly impacts Project Phoenix and the Rim Protectorate.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Analyzing the TRAS
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2021, 11:53:51 AM »
Other Industries I've found for RWR

Roe Weapon Systems
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Roe_Weapon_Systems
 
Amaris Armored Vehicles

Weigel Armory and Munitions
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Weigel_Armory_and_Munitions
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