OBT Forum
General BattleTech => Alternate Universe => Shattered Dawn => Topic started by: Takiro on August 09, 2020, 02:28:07 PM
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Well I've been thinking over the last couple of days what a reboot of this project would look like.
Touring the Stars Rigil Kent got me going on this tangent.
Would anyone be interested though?
There would be a lot of things to incorporate from the Year of the Star League.
I'd have to look at what forces stay with the Last Cameron or depart with Kerensky on the Exodus.
What would you guys like to see??
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Touring the Stars Rigil Kent got me going on this tangent.
Why?
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Mainly Rigil Kent's situation following the Amaris Coup. I was thinking how well that Project Phoenix and the Rim Protectorate might solve the reign of terror that follows the liberation. Collaborators could be exiled to the Rim much like House Amaris was (the first Amaris' running from accusations of assassination attempts of the Camerons) as supplies from the Periphery flow back to Terra helping it repair.
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Mainly Rigil Kent's situation following the Amaris Coup. I was thinking how well that Project Phoenix and the Rim Protectorate might solve the reign of terror that follows the liberation. Collaborators could be exiled to the Rim much like House Amaris was (the first Amaris' running from accusations of assassination attempts of the Camerons) as supplies from the Periphery flow back to Terra helping it repair.
I need to read it.
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The 'terror' or reprisals against Amaris collaborators that followed the liberation is spelled out in many post Year of the Star League works. Essentially political acts of vengeance and a lack of central authority killed the Hegemony. With BTSD we have the Last Cameron so central authority isn't a problem but these reprisals would remain unless quislings were deported to the Rim Protectorate as part of Project Phoenix. I think this would work and be a nice addition to Project Phoenix as Amaris loyalists are exiled like the first scion of his House were so long ago. The angle just hit me with Rigil Kent.
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Well I've been thinking over the last couple of days what a reboot of this project would look like.
Touring the Stars Rigil Kent got me going on this tangent.
Would anyone be interested though?
There would be a lot of things to incorporate from the Year of the Star League.
I'd have to look at what forces stay with the Last Cameron or depart with Kerensky on the Exodus.
What would you guys like to see??
I think you should leave it alone. It's a snapshot in time; be proud and let it stand.
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Thank you, I am very proud of it certainly.
Just musing around. ;)
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I though about this and there is a lot of stuff we did that was not published (particularly Threat Assesment 2785 AFFC) that is totallycontradicted by the current canon material. I'm not sure you could reboot this without a total re-write of everything.
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Yeah your right about that Irose. TRO 2800 would need to be seriously cut or revised and there are some things that I like better.
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TRO2800 would need to be revised- and I think we had a better handle on fleets. All of the Periphery stuff I did would have to be revised to make them more powerful (really- they gave the TC and MOC things they should not have- like lots of warships.).
I'd be discouraged to have to try and rework all of this.
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FM Periphery 2812 is another great tome which we planned and you did a lion share of the work on only not to get it done which really makes me sad. Some real great stuff!
The Mercenary Guild would need a bunch of work too.
I have to say that I felt like you Irose right up until Touring the Star Rigil Kent then something snapped.
Still we'd have to deal with smaller warship fleets and everything canon that came along which is a bunch of work!
Daunting.....
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Still we'd have to deal with smaller warship fleets and everything canon that came along which is a bunch of work!
Daunting.....
But it could be fun.
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Absolutely, which is why I am considering it. Especially a revised Mercenary Guild which could benefit from those interested in fleshing out their unit names submitted for the 1st Succession War book. ;)
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Absolutely, which is why I am considering it. Especially a revised Mercenary Guild which could benefit from those interested in fleshing out their unit names submitted for the 1st Succession War book. ;)
But I already wrote up Mary’s Little LAMs.
I’m kind of upset about FM:P but I keep mining it for other projects. Actually I have another TDF project I amworking if I have time.
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I look forward to seeing that Irose.
Time might be the ultimate decider here as well. Seems to be less and less of it today. Hard to focus in and finish up everything we want to.
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I always thought you should have said just said screw it when they officially started coming out with things from the this timeframe after you did this and just continued on with your own timeline
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I felt the same way but I wasn't the boss.
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Well our efforts were done on a blanker canvas. Broad strokes had been laid out in the original House books which we did our best to follow. Then for good or bad new canon came in and displaced a lot of work. I feel the problem is that some of the new canon is useful and tells a great story so I'd love to use it. BUT then there is things I don't agree with like warship numbers during the Star League.
What is the dividing line?
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Well our efforts were done on a blanker canvas. Broad strokes had been laid out in the original House books which we did our best to follow. Then for good or bad new canon came in and displaced a lot of work. I feel the problem is that some of the new canon is useful and tells a great story so I'd love to use it. BUT then there is things I don't agree with like warship numbers during the Star League.
What is the dividing line?
It depends where/when you put the dividing line between your alternate universe and the official one.
Or if you manage to find a reason for those numbers being wrong.
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What is the dividing line?
Where ever you want it and where ever you can justify it. And yes the justification can be as simple as this doesn't make sense so we are ignoring it.
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If you choose what the dividing was what would it be??
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If you choose what the dividing was what would it be??
Since I am not sure to be 100% up to date, I can't really tell.
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Well, how about this....
If we start out with Reunification War Supplemental we can lay the foundation for change that takes us up until the Succession Wars.
Translation large fleets, detail smaller changes, and justify little differences till we make a major break in the 1st Succession War.
This also gives us the opportunity to start with a topic (the Periphery) which Irose got screwed on.
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I don't know any of the "new" details that came out afterwards as I stopped really caring for the details of canon after things starting drastically changing imo. But why put yourself and whomever you can get back on board with this with the headache of retconing your own work. I say just move ahead and if you can fluff out the future without ruining your past with some of the canon changes go for it then.
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I've been thinking about this and looking at some of the material and if you don't mind the TC becoming a super power I am okay with that. FR2765:P is so broken its not even funny.
I mean the OA has multiple shipyards building Pintos.(even though EVERY other source says the OWA never had warships). Or the TC has a shipyard in the Hyades Cluster capable of building warships. And according to all the source material Kerensky never attacked the Cluster so it should be intact in 2785. Or the massive production capability of TTI in 2765, when previous sources hint it was formed after the fall of the SL and made it sound like it was slowly building up, not declining.
Or the mistakes in units- the Taurian Velites existing publicly in 2765 when Periphery 1e says they formed during the Uprisings. Or the Concordat Commandos who according to FM:P were all but disbanded after the RW and then reformed after the fall of the SL.
Or in the MOC- the Royal Guard were disbanded after the RW and not reformed until 2786. Or the Canopian Fusiliers who were all secretly reformed just prior to the Uprisings. Same for the Volunteers.
The look at the FS book- where are the Franklin Gorgons, The Avalon Borderers and the other units referenced in various books.
Honestly I am proud of what we did and the work we did to research existing material and make it work. This later stuff, for all the claims of fact checking, just doesn't work much for me there are retcons which don't make sense.
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You should be proud. We did some awesome stuff. Unfortunately there were things done by 'new canon' that didn't care about 'old canon.' This decision basically invalidated what we valued which is so sad on many levels. Our effort wasn't perfect but it felt like we put greater care into BattleTech than 'official authorities' did. Don't get me started on warship numbers which make no sense during the Star League era when the Great Houses field microscopic fleets compared to the enormous Star League Navy.
There was some intriguing things that the new material did bring to the table which was of value however like many Terrans collaboration with Amaris especially in light of Richard Cameron's behavior. It did intrigue me to think 'Could Project Phoenix work even better than I planned?" So is there anything you'd like to keep that 'new canon' did which we had considered?
The Concordat being a superpower is a bit much but the Periphery getting its due intrigues me. You and I feel that the Taurians became way too paranoid with Grover Sharplen, for example, to the point of changing the original faction. What can we do to tell their story? Would the League's monopoly on necessary spare parts really cripple the Concordat and other Periphery powers?? Or require their industry to switch over to civilian production during wartime (aka the Succession Wars)?? Whatever happen to all those Periphery BattleMech Divisions and their bases? Did they eventually become powerful enemies for the Periphery States (new bandits sparking civil wars cause they saw things differently than the ruling Houses)?
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Would the League's monopoly on necessary spare parts really cripple the Concordat and other Periphery powers?? Or require their industry to switch over to civilian production during wartime (aka the Succession Wars)??
I will go back to what I have always said about the Periphery - going all the way back to Periphery 1e and why I like it so much. The introduction of the book says the periphery is all a bunch of pirates or people struggling to survive. And then you read each entry- the TC is a well educated industrial powerhouse, the MOC has some of the most advanced medtech, the OWA is some of the best aerospace pilots anywhere. Even Oberon was striving towards some level of legitimacy. Sure there are failed states and pirates but the generalizations of the periphery are just wrong.
Then FM:P and 1st SW went even further. Periphery 1e talked about how the SL controlled spare parts for Fusion Plants and Water Purification systems- so that no system could stockpile more then a 6 month supply. Yet we don't see that in 1st SW. The info on page 107 shows that the MOC did not lose a single world during the 1st SW. The Concordat only lost 3 worlds, 1 to famine, 1 to disease and 1 to other disasters. Where's all the worlds dying off due to lack of water and power? You can't tell me that every world in the MOC was a natural paradise that needed no terraforming. So I will argue that the TC and the MOC were not falling apart during the 1st SW era (and even the 2nd SW era).
Then we have the Concordat Aerospace Limited Shipyards at Taurus. It survived the uprisings- since it is listed as a casualty of the 1st SW. But who destroyed it? How did someone get into the Hyades Cluster to take it out? Why is this event (which should be a big deal- I mean they invaded the cluster- something the SLDF had a hard time doing) totally ignored?
When I first starting writing up the Periphery states for Shattered Dawn I wanted to make them stronger, but I tried to be reasonable- based on FR:P 2765 and 1s SW I was too conservative.
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Then we have the Concordat Aerospace Limited Shipyards at Taurus. It survived the uprisings- since it is listed as a casualty of the 1st SW. But who destroyed it? How did someone get into the Hyades Cluster to take it out? Why is this event (which should be a big deal- I mean they invaded the cluster- something the SLDF had a hard time doing) totally ignored?
The big C?
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This is during the 1st SW, Comstar was not heavily involved in the Periphery at that time (if they even had a presence there at all) and before Holy Shroud.
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An angle that makes a lot of sense which I'd like to tackle in the Periphery is Spheroid colonization during the Star League. Granted this happened more in the Rim Worlds and Outworlds than it happened to the Canopians and Taurians but I'd love to delve into the topic as we go. Again these are all great reasons to start with a Reunification War Supplemental which can alter our time line earlier and flesh out the frontier of humanity.
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Yes, the Periphery (at least in regards to MoC and TC) makes little sense in regard to other canon material. So, I would make that the divergent part of BattleTech: Shattered Dawn . . . and completely rewrite canon from the Kerensky Exodus onward.
You already have a detailed background . . . ignore new canon and continue it forward! That is my vote.
MA
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Thanks for your opinion masterarminas!
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An angle that makes a lot of sense which I'd like to tackle in the Periphery is Spheroid colonization during the Star League. Granted this happened more in the Rim Worlds and Outworlds than it happened to the Canopians and Taurians but I'd love to delve into the topic as we go. Again these are all great reasons to start with a Reunification War Supplemental which can alter our time line earlier and flesh out the frontier of humanity.
And building new infrastructures in a realistic way...
Space colonization, here I am :D
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Yes, the Periphery (at least in regards to MoC and TC) makes little sense in regard to other canon material. So, I would make that the divergent part of BattleTech: Shattered Dawn . . . and completely rewrite canon from the Kerensky Exodus onward.
You already have a detailed background . . . ignore new canon and continue it forward! That is my vote.
MA
quite right on that response, that would be the only way to go forward
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One should never try to make sense of FASAnomics, down that path lies madness. Like how a few periphery realms buckling under the burden of unjust taxes levied to build up a few dozen house regiments managed to raise 40 divisions with fleet support to fight in the revolt.
SD is one of my favorite BT-AH & I would love more stuff on it.
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Thanks CJvR!
I believe it was 50 BattleMech regiments and I don't think they had warships if we are talking the Periphery BattleMech Divisions.
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No it was 50 Mech Divisions. The original source material said they were full mech divisions- which I would take to mean 6 mech regiments/3 infantry regiments/3 armor regiments plus supporting elements.
Liberation of Terra Vol 1 claims these were not full mech divisions but combined arms formations mixing mechs and armor for offensive operations and infantry for defensive operations. It also claims most of the equipment was RW era and that they had no warships and few military dropships.
Early sources cite at least some warships belong to the hidden fleet - Darts, the Lola IIs. FM 2765 made these ships part of the public fleets. (Not sure why they chose to do this).
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I always figured the PBMDs were a 3 mech regiment, 3 armor regiment, 3 infantry regiment formation.
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I think if you guys have fire in your bellies to get hot writing again with perhaps different timeline based on BattleTech: Shattered Dawn, you should do it.
Some of you may know me, but I've dabble in helping, but i'm principally maintaining the Battletech Fanon Wiki, which was abandoned by Sarna.net when it offloaded all the old canon. I also work on Sarna as well.
Lately, this year, I've been trying make strives to preserve the BattleTech fanon as much i can and having new stuff come out would be great. Adding articles highlighting some of the fan projects from Source books, fan stories, and other stuff like Technical Readouts. I've added couple of the books of BattleTech: Shattered Dawn to it.
I do ask if you guys decide to Revise the BattleTech: Shattered Dawn AU, please differentiate if from the original. It will make it less confusion for people wanting check out your stuff out.
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Wrangler whats the website I'd be interested in looking at it, Im familiar with sarna.net I use it almost daily for either research or just perusing
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Wrangler whats the website I'd be interested in looking at it, Im familiar with sarna.net I use it almost daily for either research or just perusing
This the website for the Battletech fanon Wiki site (http://battletechfanon.fandom.com/).
The website divided by categories with TROs, Source Books, AU, by author, and so forth.
Ive been trying clean it up and organize it I am slowly adding lost and new fan stuff.
It will be interesting see NEw Shattered Dawn come out btw.
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Agreed, I helped a tiny bit on some of the old stuff as I'm a real life friend of Takiro and have been playing BT together on and off again for 30 years now. He's definitely the loremaster in our relationship I'm more like the Khan I have thing on my mind and thats WAR!! ;) (inside joke as when playing Civilization together I was always the war minister and Tak was always for the diplomatic solution)
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Hey, Wrangler you don't have all our existing BTSD library which includes the 3rd edition of fanbook 1. You can find everything here.
https://www.ourbattletech.com/downloads/
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Wrangler whats the website I'd be interested in looking at it, Im familiar with sarna.net I use it almost daily for either research or just perusing
This the website for the Battletech fanon Wiki site (http://battletechfanon.fandom.com/).
Nice site
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He's definitely the loremaster in our relationship I'm more like the Khan I have thing on my mind and thats WAR!! ;) (inside joke as when playing Civilization together I was always the war minister and Tak was always for the diplomatic solution)
And I am the Jester :P
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Hey guys, managed to crawl back to this board after many years a little wiser and lot more jaded. Following along your conversation here, I think the real problem is that if we want to continue to do projects like BTSD or other alternate timelines set in early Succession Wars period, we have to ignore a lot of the canon that has been written on the subject. No offense meant to the authors of all the Historicals covering the period from 2764-2864, but those books managed to destroy a lot of mystique of the subject matter they covered. Not only did a lot of those works manage to contradict earlier source material (a retcon by any other name), they were very dry in how they covered a conflicts, and the order of battles for the armies were very unimaginative. I remember reading a comment by Herb many years ago along the lines that this only made sense because the Star League was as 'boring as a church', and those units were only as interesting as when they finally were destroyed. It was something along those lines, very condescending in tone and made me wonder why so much ink was split if that was the view of the creative staff.
Okay, maybe I do mean some offense to those guys. It's been a hard year.
Let's put it in these terms. In the past decade, BT has gone from a setting that went from 'quirky, but functional' to desperately needing a reboot to make the setting work again on any level. Official BT is simply not much fun these days, and anything we could come up with could not be much worse than the bland, heavily regulated product that manages to jettison all of the cool little features that gave the story its charm while seeming to maintain illogical rules that even the developers themselves hate but will not overturn.
What I'm saying is, if we were to try something like this again we need to do something because it broadly fits into what made old-school BT awesome, but works for us with all of the developments we have experienced in the past couple of decades.
As an aside, my opinion is Empires Aflame was the best product put out by CGL in the past decade in part because it played with the rules a little more loosely, and even the writers seemed to have more fun with it. Too bad they seemed to not have really learned anything from it and if anything doubled-down once they went back to canon.
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Its great hearing from you again FSL!
The 'fun factor' is a great point. I get weighed down in the details too often myself nowadays and don't broad stroke enough. I always thought Empires Aflame was inspired by Shattered Dawn and all the great work we did! ;)
I agree with your comments about the 'new' Historicals destroying the mystique of the BattleTech setting as presented in the original Sourcebooks. The year of the Star League did much to suck the life out of the setting for me. Not all bad mind you and some of the major points made I'd love to incorporate. I actually love the Amaris 'election' and Terran support for him as the Camerons had grown tiresome. At the other end of the spectrum there was the House warship limit which made absolutely no sense.
Field Manual SLDF was the worst offender I think which is a shame cause it had so much promise. While a lack of action is noted during this Golden Age I think it missed on several areas. One, the creation and progression of each unit as they grew from either Terran or multinational roots into their SLDF height. Two, while battle history would be impossible for some what were these constabulary forces doing which could then highlight how was their sector of space different at this time as opposed to now. Three, mercenaries or at least their opinion of - while eluded to at times had to be at an all time low among the SLDF. This highly professional near omnipresent peacekeeping force (SLDF) probably had enough trouble with House units, local militias, and pirates at this time. Mercenaries were likely despised as dangerous radicals. You can also hit on how the SLDF had its hands tied, garrison arrangements with the Great Houses could vary wildly, etc. Herb did a great job especially with detailing the Jihad but I felt like this (FM SLDF) was 'work' to him. Sheer unenjoyable drudgery. I think it showed through in the writing.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Field_Manual:_SLDF
While I hate the unimaginative 'reboot' of just about everything today (just leave some of the great stuff of yesteryear alone please) I think BattleTech could really thrive on such things. That is why I love the alternate timelines of BattleTech cause at its core it is a fantastic setting.
Great hearing from you again old friend! Hope you will keep on posting away. ;D
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As an option you guys should just come up with a free image of the story from the Star League itself like right after the reunification War.
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Well today has shown me two things:-
1 - I need to come on here more often.
2 - I think this is a great idea, either restarting the project where it was left off or starting again from just after the end of the RW would be good.
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Good seeing again Six! Please stop bye more often. ;)
We had considered a Reunification War Supplemental and Naval TRO long ago during the Year of the Star League. Further new canon developments during that time squashed those plans but we do have some initial work complete.
As FirstStarLord has kind of brought this all back to the surface again and as I am now hooked on For All Mankind on AppleTV would you guys consider my initial 3025 Terran Sourcebook? That would be a fun alternate right up I think.
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A time jump for the SD universe to 3025 sounds good, are you thinking just the TH for now or just the TH?
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Originally when I developed the idea it would have been a Terran Sourcebook set in 3025 based on the old FASA House Sourcebooks.
The details of the 1st Succession War dragged me into Fanbook 01 - Field Manual Terran Republic 2785.
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Based on the old cover image (dating back to 2004!) I generated what I would use today, enjoy!
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Originally when I developed the idea it would have been a Terran Sourcebook set in 3025 based on the old FASA House Sourcebooks.
The details of the 1st Succession War dragged me into Fanbook 01 - Field Manual Terran Republic 2785.
Sounds like a good idea, would you consider doing the remainder of the inner sphere if it is a success?
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First priority would be the Periphery not the InnerSphere. Irose in particular has done so much written work that we haven't published it would only be fair that a more fleshed out Periphery Sourcebook would be next.
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Makes sense.
I'm interested to see if, from the starting point any of the Circinus Federation, Lothian League and Marian Hegemony have still come into existence.
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One of the shortcomings of the original Periphery Sourcebook was the of Succession War history. This is where we would fill in the holes on the major Periphery states.
The Lothian League has its roots before Succession Wars i believe.
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One of the shortcomings of the original Periphery Sourcebook was the of Succession War history. This is where we would fill in the holes on the major Periphery states.
The Lothian League has its roots before Succession Wars i believe.
Yes, without checking my memory says refugees from the Taurian Concordat during the reunification war.
But the SD Map only shows Lothero and not the rest of the League.
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One of the shortcomings of the original Periphery Sourcebook was the of Succession War history. This is where we would fill in the holes on the major Periphery states.
That was also a shortcoming of the later periphery books.
I’m game for doing this. But be advised I will be ignoring a lot of fm:periphery 2765 and the 1st and 2nd SW books. Otherwise the TC will be the strongest faction in Human Space. (No seriously 1st SW took everything we had been told about how the SL kept the periphery states down and how they quickly collapsed at the start of the SW and threw it out. )
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One of the shortcomings of the original Periphery Sourcebook was the of Succession War history. This is where we would fill in the holes on the major Periphery states.
That was also a shortcoming of the later periphery books.
I’m game for doing this. But be advised I will be ignoring a lot of fm:periphery 2765 and the 1st and 2nd SW books. Otherwise the TC will be the strongest faction in Human Space. (No seriously 1st SW took everything we had been told about how the SL kept the periphery states down and how they quickly collapsed at the start of the SW and threw it out. )
Excellent, how many periphery nations are there by 3025? Or is it to early to tell?
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Well barring alternate events there is;
Taurian Concordat
Magistracy of Canopus
Outworlds Alliance
Oberon Confederation
Greater Valkyrate
Marian Hegemony
Circinus Federation
Plus...
I would not be opposed to a strong set of Periphery nations
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So the three Rim Worlds Republic successor states have gone?
Shame had hoped they would survive.
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I'll have to talk to Takiro about this- I was under the impression that there were going to be Rim Successor states in the old RWR area and a few other surprises (Which I don't want to spoil yet).
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Ideal
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It would be good to ignore FR: Periphery 2765 altogether. It may just be the worst of the whole FM/FR series in terms of both ignoring previous continuity and for the inexplicable glossing over of the Rim Worlds military. The FMs are some of my favorite BT sourcebooks aside from the original House Book series, and the low quality of that entry was very sore for me in general. One of the few times I felt like buying a BT supplement had been a waste of money, and it sort of cooled off my interest in the whole franchise for a few years.
And no seriously, we know less about the Rim Worlds Military than the SLDF, even through the latter is about thirty times larger. For that matter, we know more about the Republic of the Sphere's military, and that existed for a mere half century in universe, and was cannon fodder for the most part. What the heck?
For a 3025 view of BTSD, we should use some of the material that was generated from the Empires Aflame fanbooks, since those did a good job of depicting Successor State militaries that kept or grew upon their strength from the start of the Successor Wars.
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One of the goals for our project here is to show growth, albeit not the sort you may be thinking of, but progression nonetheless. I certainly want to get into the nitty gritty of regions and while a tech decline or plateau may have occurred this won't be the Successor States you'll remember. Identifiable, yes but different from canon.
Irose, shhh, about the Rim Worlds...... ;)
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One of the goals for our project here is to show growth, albeit not the sort you may be thinking of, but progression nonetheless. I certainly want to get into the nitty gritty of regions and while a tech decline or plateau may have occurred this won't be the Successor States you'll remember. Identifiable, yes but different from canon.
Irose, shhh, about the Rim Worlds...... ;)
Tease. :D
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One of the goals for our project here is to show growth, albeit not the sort you may be thinking of, but progression nonetheless. I certainly want to get into the nitty gritty of regions and while a tech decline or plateau may have occurred this won't be the Successor States you'll remember. Identifiable, yes but different from canon.
Irose, shhh, about the Rim Worlds...... ;)
Well I didn't even begin talk about the changes to [Redacted] or how the [Redacted] decided to [Redacted] and don't forget about [Redacted].
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Right ;) ;) nod nod
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---scratches his chin---
I see said the blind man to the deaf man
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Well I didn't even begin talk about the changes to [Redacted] or how the [Redacted] decided to [Redacted] and don't forget about [Redacted].
The Word of Blake has infiltrated us.
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Do they even exist in the Shattered Dawn universe? ;D
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Do they even exist in the Shattered Dawn universe? ;D
I wouldn't think so, probably more likely to be Amaris loyalists.
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One of our most interesting settings is out on the Rim as Irose eluded to earlier where Amaris loyalists are certainly present. ;)
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Excellent.....
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The Rim Worlds are always a good topic to expand upon. A lot of wiggle room there.
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I am actually talking this over with Irose now and we are getting some pretty good concepts going.
Would anyone like to help on the effort?
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I am actually talking this over with Irose now and we are getting some pretty good concepts going.
Would anyone like to help on the effort?
Yeah.
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Just an update for everyone, Irose and I have been working on Outworlds Alliance stuff this week while I've been reviewing the first history section of the old Terran Sourcebook. Love to hear any suggestions or questions you might have on the Shattered Dawn reboot.
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Other than the Rim how much can the Periphery really change? SW1 is still going to strangle them even if they swallow their pride and try to do trade with Terra there are hundreds of LY between them and houses starved for JS will never hesitate to snap up a Periphery ship.
Even with a milder SW1 and a changed SW2 the Periphery is F***ed.
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Can't argue with everyone not being screwed royally but I think a few factors will make for some important changes in the Shattered Dawn 3025 era. ;)
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No doubt having the industrial heartland of the galaxy "merely" bombed back to the bronze age rather than the stone age should have some positive side effects that trickle all the way into the outback.
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Other than the Rim how much can the Periphery really change? SW1 is still going to strangle them even if they swallow their pride and try to do trade with Terra there are hundreds of LY between them and houses starved for JS will never hesitate to snap up a Periphery ship.
Even with a milder SW1 and a changed SW2 the Periphery is F***ed.
Interesting fact- the world which had the fewest worlds lost/depopulated in the 1st Succession War- the Magistracy of Canopus with 0 worlds lost. The 2nd fewest a tie between the Taurian Concordat and the FWL with 3. So for all of the talk about the Periphery being completely dependent on the IS for water purification and fusion plant parts the loss of trade did not lead to the loss of many worlds (other then in the OWA).
One of the things I loved about the first periphery book was that the introduction talks about all the generalizations about the periphery- they are backwards, low tech worlds, little industry, poorly education and filled with pirates- then as we start to read about the periphery we get a different story. The TC is well educated and has significant industry. The MOC has some of the best medical capabilities in known space. The Space Amish have some of the finest aerospace forces anywhere. We have brutal pirates like Redjack Ryan but then we have the Marians.
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Converssely, the Outw0rlds alliance lost over 100 worlds in a relatively short period of time due to the loss of technology and conquest by the Dracs and Fedrats.
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Converssely, the Outw0rlds alliance lost over 100 worlds in a relatively short period of time due to the loss of technology and conquest by the Dracs and Fedrats.
The OWA lost 30 worlds during the 1st SW - 14 to famine, 4 to disease and 12 to other disasters. By the end of the 3rd SW they had lost over 100 worlds - some to seccession, some to abandonment. No OWA worlds were captured by the FS or DC.
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No point for the Federated Suns all it would do would extend the border with the Dracs for no real strategic gains.
Lost worlds during the Age of War, I think, but haven't read up on the OWA since the 90s
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No point for the Federated Suns all it would do would extend the border with the Dracs for no real strategic gains.
Lost worlds during the Age of War, I think, but haven't read up on the OWA since the 90s
Both the Suns and the Combine took/were given worlds during the RW but nothing during the SW's, unless things unfold differently in the BTSD universe.
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Worlds in the Periphery are normally defined by two points: First, they are very far away from Terra. Secondly they tend to be very underpopulated. A periphery world is often a backwards pirate's nest in large part because there is not enough people living there to build or maintain significant infrastructure. There is also some mention in canon that the farther you get from Terra, the number of worlds with ideal Earth-like conditions drop considerably, making it hard to build a mini-empire when you might have only one bread-basket world out of a hundred, and few jumpships to transport goods around on a reliable basis. So it makes sense the Successor State rarely muck around there despite their tremendous might and the potential opportunity to find a resource-rich world to exploit; it is just too costly in most cases to even throw a single mech lance at it.
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Worlds in the Periphery are normally defined by two points: First, they are very far away from Terra. Secondly they tend to be very underpopulated. A periphery world is often a backwards pirate's nest in large part because there is not enough people living there to build or maintain significant infrastructure. There is also some mention in canon that the farther you get from Terra, the number of worlds with ideal Earth-like conditions drop considerably, making it hard to build a mini-empire when you might have only one bread-basket world out of a hundred, and few jumpships to transport goods around on a reliable basis. So it makes sense the Successor State rarely muck around there despite their tremendous might and the potential opportunity to find a resource-rich world to exploit; it is just too costly in most cases to even throw a single mech lance at it.
Very true FirstStarLord, by definition the Periphery is the edge of human settled space usually but not always some 500 light years from Terra and yes because of this remoteness it has less folks than the InnerSphere.
On Earth-like conditions which is a subject hit on with the Clan Homeworlds I think it has to do with colonization efforts and settlement. I think continual support from Earth and other systems helped maintain the ecology of planets which was damaged during the Succession Wars as combat took its toll either directly or indirectly (lack of jumpships). Conditions went from ideal to sustainable making life harder and harder.
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Worlds in the Periphery are normally defined by two points: First, they are very far away from Terra. Secondly they tend to be very underpopulated. A periphery world is often a backwards pirate's nest in large part because there is not enough people living there to build or maintain significant infrastructure. There is also some mention in canon that the farther you get from Terra, the number of worlds with ideal Earth-like conditions drop considerably, making it hard to build a mini-empire when you might have only one bread-basket world out of a hundred, and few jumpships to transport goods around on a reliable basis. So it makes sense the Successor State rarely muck around there despite their tremendous might and the potential opportunity to find a resource-rich world to exploit; it is just too costly in most cases to even throw a single mech lance at it.
Very true FirstStarLord, by definition the Periphery is the edge of human settled space usually but not always some 500 light years from Terra and yes because of this remoteness it has less folks than the InnerSphere.
On Earth-like conditions which is a subject hit on with the Clan Homeworlds I think it has to do with colonization efforts and settlement. I think continual support from Earth and other systems helped maintain the ecology of planets which was damaged during the Succession Wars as combat took its toll either directly or indirectly (lack of jumpships). Conditions went from ideal to sustainable making life harder and harder.
The ecology issue is tied into a number of factors. I did the number crunching years ago, but the worlds settled earliest by humans tended to be the ones that weathered the decay of the Succession Wars most successfully. Part of that was because they had better infrastructure that could support large populations, but that infrastructure was possible because those worlds had originally attracted more people due to their pleasant Earth-like climates. Tarsus is a good example of that paradigm in the Periphery, but there seem to be very few others in that region, and this is despite thousands of expeditions scouting tens of thousands of star systems beyond the borders of the Inner Sphere.
Was it not mentioned in some of the earlier sourcebooks about the Clans that Kerensky had bypassed a number of better options to settle on the Pentagon worlds for reasons no one but he truly understood? It does not seem like he was going to find some paradise like New Avalon or Donegal in the stretches of the Deep Periphery, even if he wanted to.
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Love to see your numbers on this topic if you ever run across them.
I wonder what the science would say on this? I suppose age of the galaxy and this area of the Persus Arm would have something to do with world habitability for humans.
Could also be a reason there is no other intelligent life in the Battletech universe with such small habitable bubbles to settle.
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Any chance this ye olde effort continuing?
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Never say never Wrangler. Right now, I am still working hard on Salient Horizon. The Book of Locusts is looking ok when compared to some of the more modern fanbooks but I am still not satisfied.
Let me ask you this while I got you here - what would you like to see from a BTSD Reboot? Be specific! ;)
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The Book of Locusts
So, you have a book of MechWarriors piloting Locust Light 'Mechs, swarming unfortunate targets? Sounds like a fast moving story. ;)
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I'd like to see BTSD carry on from where it left off with the ongoing succession war.
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The Book of Locusts
So, you have a book of MechWarriors piloting Locust Light 'Mechs, swarming unfortunate targets? Sounds like a fast moving story. ;)
Unfortunately, my progress has been slow. Hopefully I can pump something out soon for you guys to critique.
I'd like to see BTSD carry on from where it left off with the ongoing succession war.
It's on my agenda. Was thinking about developing BattleMech equipped Marine units per Ice Hellion's post the other day. The Terran Royal Marines would be the first obviously modeled after the SLDF CAAN Regiments. Then the other Houses would follow.
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Sounds interesting and makes sense the other Houses would copy them.
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It's on my agenda. Was thinking about developing BattleMech equipped Marine units per Ice Hellion's post the other day. The Terran Royal Marines would be the first obviously modeled after the SLDF CAAN Regiments. Then the other Houses would follow.
Beware I am known for having a lot of ideas, most of them silly. :P
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It's on my agenda. Was thinking about developing BattleMech equipped Marine units per Ice Hellion's post the other day. The Terran Royal Marines would be the first obviously modeled after the SLDF CAAN Regiments. Then the other Houses would follow.
Beware I am known for having a lot of ideas, most of them silly. :P
This one makes sense though.
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I had hoped it would continue where the story had left off. I know its been years now, people's lives have changed. However, you have foundation. Starting from scrap may not always be best answer.