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Author Topic: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765  (Read 32025 times)

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Takiro

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Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« on: November 11, 2013, 06:03:03 PM »

Well folks I have had time to go over Field Report CCAF 2765 and for the purposes of Shattered Dawn wanted to jot down this quick review. Be warned there are spoilers ahead and of course I’d love to hear from you.

The Field Report confirms these numbers and paints an honest picture of the Confederation. The brief overview paragraph seems spot on. Its strengths and weaknesses are outlined very nicely in the strategic update. A Fragile Détente is a very Capellan speech by Barbara Liao which is quite fitting. Sadly it is too brief but hey it’s a field report so top marks thus far.

I found Goals of the State lacking to a certain respect. Yes it mentions the territorial ambitions of Liao with regards to Chesterton and Andurien but it fails to mention interest in Terran worlds once part of the Tikonov Union. Now I realize Chesterton is front and center at the time of publication thanks to the recent Demeter Incident of 2760. However the Hegemony inflicted several territorial losses on the Capellans which are unlikely to be completely forgotten. The Tikonov Grand Union once ruled Tybalt, Rio, Angol, Ruchbach, Azha, and Chisholm (aka Elgin). The Duchy of Liao possessed Zurich, Genoa, and Arboris while the Capellan Zone claimed Berenson prior to birth of the Hegemony. It also appears that the Nanking Collective (Terra Ferma and Capolla) was swallowed by the 2nd Terran Campaign of Persuasion. Even with the Shared World Agreements (Tikonov for one being shared) and the coming of the Star League the Capellans are unlikely to forget about these Coreward losses.

Now on to the Periphery and the one area the Capellans have made territorial gains historically. The Rim War bought the Confederation several worlds from the Taurian Concordat that perhaps most impressively they not only retained but did so without continuing enmity from Taurus. Successfully burying the hatchet with the Calderons is a lesson you’d think the Star League might like to learn. And what about the reliance of the CCAF on taxes levied on the Periphery to feed its military build up. More so then any other nation the Capellans rely heavily on this revenue to keep pace with their neighbors. Both of these north-south facts should have been included somehow but instead only east-west relations are thought of.

Okay folks, that is it for now. Next part of my review will be military academies, mercenaries (not a single mention of the Northwind Highlanders?!), the fleet (WTF!?), and infrastructure (yup industry). I got no beef with the Home Guard so I’m likely to save my ammo for those four topics before we get to units.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 06:22:48 PM by Takiro »
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Red Pins

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2013, 08:07:02 PM »

GIMMIE!
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2013, 02:13:57 PM »

t that perhaps most impressively they not only retained but did so without continuing enmity from Taurus. Successfully burying the hatchet with the Calderons is a lesson you’d think the Star League might like to learn.

How?
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2013, 05:45:48 PM »

They passed the buck. The four year Rim War was brutal and saw the use of WMD. There were numerous civilian and military deaths while only gaining two systems for the Confederation. But the Capellans there after invoked a neutral course in regards to the Concordat. Often blaming the Davion bogeyman for all their problems in life despite third party moves by the Star League, Liao never really went headlong after them again. Distract the Taurians, blame someone else, even when the League is invading tell them your giving them a hard time about using Capellan, your taxing the snot out of them, its the Davions fault!
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2013, 10:43:51 PM »

I really can't complain about the Capellan Military Academies as it is pretty much Liao practice to have one on each Commonalty homeworld. I liked the different "personalities" that each institution had and they seemed appropriate. Specializations would have been a nice touch for example Capella with Dehli Warships HQ nearby could have been mentioned as the premier naval institute or Sarna with its extensive aerospace industry could have been the premier aerospace school. I suppose each of the five schools are skilled at instruction in every art of war given this is the Star League era. I would have added to candidates to the list of five given. The obvious one is Andurien now the sixth commonalty capital. Biggest missed opportunity here. What a great Star League school this could have been. I mean the League basically got its start here. Imagine Liao, Marik and other students attending. The other is Liao which isn't a commonalty capital true but the homeworld of the ruling dynasty. You'd think it would be prized as a bastion of loyalists for the rulers of the state.

Onto Mercenaries or independent defense contractors as the sidebar describes them. I find their history of service and Liao's insurance policy against domestic opposition a very Capellan reason for their being. The Confederation's continuing reliance and preference of foreign fighters to come here when work was drying up fits well. The lack of detail on who these 9 'Mech regiments plus other conventional forces are is concerning especially since you have one glaring example. Umm, Northwind Highlanders anyone?! Not one mention here or anywhere else in the Field Report which I found wanting in that respect. I don't mind that TPTB apparently wanted to leave a blank slate for custom units but come on mention the most premier formation.

My poorest marks I am leaving for the Capellan Navy which made absolutely no sense to me what so ever. Lets look at the numbers historically given - 2575: 45 / 2600: 45 / 2750: 30 / 2765: 37. Now Historical Reunification War tells us that (under Integration with the SLDF) "The Chancellor further transferred almost two-thirds of her nation's warship fleet to the Star League, seizing the opportunity to rid her military of its oldest and least capable equipment". Yet by 2765 the only true Capellan made warship still in service was the Du Shi Wang. My problem with this THE DU SHI WANG IS THE FIRST TRUE BLEEPING WARSHIP THE CAPELLANS EVER BLEEPING MADE!!!! Take out the Soyal which I got no big problems with and all that is left of the Capellan fleet are 22 old arse Terran relics. Your telling me every warship the Capellans built after the Du Shi Wang was inferior. In other words they got worse at making warships?!?! Huh.... Your telling me the latest Liao corvette, destroyer or cruiser was crap compared to the 200 year old Du Shi Wang?! I don't buy it. But ok, alright, so Terran stuff is so much better, why didn't the Capellans and every other House beat down the Camerons doors and buy every Farragut and Monsoon they could have? Du Shi Wang better then them too?? Don't buy it sorry. And while we are at it they couldn't have contracted Dehli Warships to build a new class (Soyal for example) or two during the Star League?? Why didn't the Houses buy stripped down version of Star League vessels, that would be plausible too it would justify all those massive production numbers limit the size of the Star League fleet. But no BattleTech equals Mech supremacy and we can't have warships. Piss poor job here guys. Hate what has been done warships in general and to the Capellan Navy. The original spirit has been ripped out and replaced with a few museum pieces and the Star League Navy had a though job?

The Infrastructural Integrity gives a general overview of the Capellan Industrial Complex. It gets the thriving industrial worlds along shared House borders created thanks to Star League cooperation right. Nice bit of foreshadowing is given describing the hopelessness of defending such frontier installations. A few planets and industries are named quickly giving a nice glimpse although I'd love more detail that would go far beyond the scope of this field report. Terran investment thanks to low Capellan wages seems plausible even though you'd think a high amount governmental regulations might temper such capitalist enthusiasm. Still with all the bureaucratic red tape I guess Liao provides for everyone's health care and pensions limiting corporate responsibility.

Next on to the units.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 10:47:25 PM by Takiro »
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lrose

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 10:47:14 AM »

I have mixed feelings about FR CCAF 2765.  Overall I think it is a decent work, they have about the right number of units for 2765, leaving room to get to the canon 122 regiments in 2785/2799. 

Takiro - you reference relations with the TC but I didn't see anything about the Concordat in the FR.  During the later years of the Age of War there were decent relations between the TC and both the FS and CC.  With the CC largely sitting out the RW it is possible that the Concordat had good relations with them but if you look at Periphery 1e, the TC mistrusts the CC almost as much as they mistrust the FS. 

I agree with your comments about the Merc forces.  They should have been mentioned in some detail, especially since they are apparently serving very long term contracts.  Even a listing of the 9 regiments would have been sufficient.

The warship section....I'm not even sure where to start.  First off the fleet is small, way too small.  H:RW implies the CC transferred 2/3's of their fleet to the SLDF.  We have numbers for the House fleets in 2575, which is after they transferred their forces to the SLDF in 2571,  so in 2571 the CC must have had about 120 warships (If 45 is 2/3's of the CC fleet they would have 135, but they need less then 127 ships since the TC had the 2nd largest fleet so let's call it 120).  Making things worse is that during the RW, the SLDF transferred 6 Aegis to each house and may also have sold/transferred Vincent Corvettes, Vigilant Corvettes and other vessels.  Yet the CCN is still at 45 ships in 2600s, despite having suffered no losses (other then maybe a few operational losses- the CCN did not see combat like the other states and should have no combat losses).  Then by 2765 they are down to 37 ships,  (actually in 2750 they were as low as 30 ships) despite having received Barons, Carsons, Lola Is, Vigilants and Essex Is from the SLDF.  (I am assuming the Vincents were new builds from Delhi- let the Capellans build their own corvettes).  And they built 10 Soyals.  So what happened to the rest of the ships in their fleet?  Were they retired?  Scrapped?  Destroyed?  Given that warships seem to stay in service for centuries and that the Capellans got rid of the worst of their fleet in 2571, what happened to the other vessels in their fleet. Were they that poorly designed that hand me down HAF ships were better then them?   

It's also worth noting that in TR3075 the implication was that there were more Du Shi Wangs in 2765 then we see in the FR- the book refers to less then a dozen surviving to the 1st SW.  While no production numbers are given the fact that the TRO refers to less then a dozen surviving implies that the CC built way more then a dozen.  Also I find it interesting that the TRO entry says less then a dozen survived.  Including the Du Shi Wang captured by the SLDF there are 6 know survivors in 2765. Typically you would say only half dozen survived or some such, when I read a vague statement like "less then a dozen survived to the First Succession War" I translated that as more then 6 but less then 12.  So I was disappointed to see only 6 in service.   But enough about the fleet- the writers have a different vision then I do and they are not going to change what they are doing.  As for SD well I think we are in agreement that the fleets need to be bigger and that we need to take our own approach to this.

Moving on to the industries section I found it the most interesting section of the FR. It was a little light on hard details but there were enough tidbits to provide a good basis for the Capellans industrial capability, while allowing us to flush it out as needed.  I would have liked a little more coverage of the aerospace industry but overall it was well done.





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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 11:58:13 AM »

I agree with you Irose. I believe the figure for the CCAF was 129 regiments with the LCAF being 122 regiments. Both old canon numbers which Shattered Dawn will cling to cause hey all published material should count IMO.

That was my point about the Taurian Concordat - there is no mention of them. Goals of the State should have included something as the Capellans might rely more heavily on the tax income of the Periphery then any other Great House to sustain their arms race. Same point with the Terran Hegemony - no mention at all yet there are territories and foreign policy interests which matter.

The Fleet is a mess. Sadly the writers have an agenda against warships which I don't agree with but even with this bias throw us a bone. Maybe a Liao Destroyer, a Corvette, hell an armed transport but all we get is some Du Shi Wangs (their first ship) and acknowledgement that every warship they made after it sucked! Makes no sense. Very poorly done. It is a shame you will see just a single classic canon Capellan design. I still hold out hope that other Houses will be done better. Luckily many have multiple designs present in canon already. Shattered Dawn will be utterly different. This "vision" or lack there of one will be struck from little universe.

Agreed on the Industrial section. I should have my thoughts on units together tonight. Mind if I include a few spoilers on Threat Assessments for general comments?
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Knightmare

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2013, 12:02:22 PM »

So what happened to the rest of the ships in their fleet?

Reserve/mothball...



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lrose

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 03:31:17 PM »

So what happened to the rest of the ships in their fleet?

Reserve/mothball...

If that's the case then why weren't the ships returned to service following the expansion of the Edict of 2650 limits.  It would be far quicker to return those vessels to service (even if only as training ships) then it is to build new ships, especially when you have only built 1 warship class, totaling probably less then 15 ships, over the last 300 years.  Yes they have been building jumpships, but jumpships are very different from warships with their compact cores and large maneuvering drives. Not to mention naval weapons, sensors, etc.  There's also the consideration of shipyards capable of building these vessels. Prior to 2731 the CC had not built a warship since the reunification war. It takes time to build a shipyard and get experience building warships.  To me there is a hole in the logic with the Capellan fleet, but then again  trying to apply logic to Btech is a bad idea....
   
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lrose

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 03:32:33 PM »


Agreed on the Industrial section. I should have my thoughts on units together tonight. Mind if I include a few spoilers on Threat Assessments for general comments?

That's fine with me. 
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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2013, 03:46:14 PM »

There may be more ship classes in the Historical early Succession Wars
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2013, 10:07:19 PM »

Reserve/mothball...

With the last sentence in the side bar describing the Capellans as "desperately attempting to acquire Warship hulls however they can." That would seem to indicate there ain't nothin left in the cupboard. Plus the Capellan Navy seems to have activated there Reserve Squadron which is led by a Block I Black Lion the CNS Typhon.  Bottom line this was an agenda driven piece of fiction that really doesn't add up. You know I'm a Warship guy but all I'm asking for is a fair interpretation of the setting which we didn't get.

There may be more ship classes in the Historical early Succession Wars

Possible Blacknova but one of the first casualties of the Succession War is the shipyards. So you only have the 20 years between this publication and the start of hostilities to build these ships. You'd have to overcome a pretty severe economic crisis during that time, no Periphery taxes helping to finance said projects, and no help from Terran industries. Don't forget the SLDF eating up some resources and possible defections from the Great Houses to fight the Usurper.
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masterarminas

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 10:38:07 PM »

I've got a real problem with the 'minimizing' of assets (ground AND space) that The Powers That Be have done.  With the small official sizes of the various Great House/Periphery militaries . . . what REASON is there to have the SLDF be so freaking HUGE?

I mean, between all five Great Houses and the Periphery (minus Amaris' hidden army that NO ONE knew about), there was approximately 500 Regiments . . . right?  About maybe 500 WarShips . . . if I am remembering right.

Yet, the SLDF had more than fifteen thousand regiments, organized into 486 Divisions (with a minimum of 1,725 of those regiments being 'Mech units, not including the independent regiments; that number is JUST from the Divisions).  Along with thousands of WarShips (at least 15,000 combined WarShips, JumpShips, and DropShips).

Why in the world would the leaders of the Great Houses have allowed the Camerons to gain such a force advantage over them?  What was it needed for . . . IF the forces of the Great Houses were so small?

It is bad writing (in my opinion) when the universe makes no sense within the constraints of that universe.

Nonetheless, I was happy to see the original Black Lion class.

MA
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 10:41:06 PM by masterarminas »
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2013, 10:38:41 PM »

For the unit review let me lead of with Liao Guards. The original defenders of the Republic of Liao are a nice fit even though they seem more Lyran than Capellan. I like their devolution into a parade unit and hints that they are on the come back trail. Like the story, the insignia, and history but there might have been a better fit. There seems to be a bit of an overlap here with the Capellan Hussars. I know the unit doesn't Guard the house but rather represents their ancestral homeworld. Isn't there a lack of a dedicated Special Operations Force for the Capellan Confederation at this time?

We at Shattered Dawn came up with our own unit from the Duchy of Liao. The Liao Rangers filled were meant to provide Liao with an appropriate elite force and foreshadow the coming of the Warrior Houses and Death Commandos. They were inspired by the formation of Vincent’s Commandos who according to HLSB were formed in 2805-2810 from “various commando battalions". As one of the elite forces of the CCAF they were adept at rapid battalion sized strikes making them ideal for modern combat. Their brand of highly mobile warfare had been honed as recently as the Star League’s infamous Hidden Wars. Striking at Liao's neighbors with a high degree of success would already be second nature to these crack troops. Organized around a single BattleMech battalion with infantry and aerofighter support which will no doubt remind you of the Death Commandos and the Warrior Houses.

I'd love to save the Rangers and still use them in the SD universe perhaps as a purely conventional force. Or maybe they were attached directly to the Maskirovka with nothing to do with the CCAF and hence not included in the Field Report. Still canon wise Liao lacks any Special Forces unit in the time period as the Death Commandos weren't assembled for another two centuries. Here is the Liao Ranger insignia. The Chinese symbol is the Liao dynasty according to what I found on the internet.

What do you think? How did you like the Guards? What of the Rangers?
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lrose

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2013, 11:39:40 PM »

I like the rangers far more then the Guard.  You hit it on the head when you described the Guard as Lyran- that is exactly what I was thinking when I read the entry.  Keep in mind they only detailed 92 regiments in 2765- by 2785 there will be up to 37 other regiments added to the CCAF's rolls.  So there is plenty of room to add the rangers, even if they are only 2-3 regiments strong.
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