Topic: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765 (Read 32011 times)

Blacknova · « **Reply #15 on:** November 14, 2013, 12:11:36 AM »

Based on H: LoT I, the CCAF could be as big as 180+ by the start of the 1st war and have 70+ Warships.

Takiro · « **Reply #16 on:** November 14, 2013, 07:09:30 PM »

Well said Master Arminas, the warship numbers are completely broken by any fair assessment. I remember in one of the TROs, think it was 2750, where bandits had a warship! Believe it was an old Dart but hell they ain't that far away from a Great House. The Star League Fleet should have been much smaller if the Houses had these pitifully small navies. That and the fleet make up should have been much different. Why 200 plus McKennas when one could probably wax the entire Capellan fleet?? That maybe a bit of an exaggeration but still. I liked the Black Lion I as well and my review will come on that a little later.

Quote from: lrose on November 13, 2013, 11:39:40 PM

I like the rangers far more then the Guard. You hit it on the head when you described the Guard as Lyran- that is exactly what I was thinking when I read the entry. Keep in mind they only detailed 92 regiments in 2765- by 2785 there will be up to 37 other regiments added to the CCAF's rolls. So there is plenty of room to add the rangers, even if they are only 2-3 regiments strong.

Me too Irose. The Liao Guard tells the cautionary tale of a unit involved in ceremonial functions then peace comes and they really get fat. I'd like to keep the Liao Rangers as well and I think they fit in both Threat Assessments (2600 and 2785). There is definitely room and a number of excuses we could use. They aren't attached to the CCAF but rather the Maskirovka or as a special forces unit they aren't regularly assigned BattleMechs. Matter of fact I could see the Commando Battalions being used in discretionary warfare and not there for listed. Gradually they get add to CCAF line units and used in mass during the Succession Wars. We could even use the Guards as a drag on the Rangers reputation being so closely tied to the Duchy of Liao maybe there is a bias against them. How about the opposite mindset of the CCAF - Rangers are hesitant to trade their lives in massive wave attacks - meaning they don't want to accept heavy casualties. After all they are highly skilled warriors but the rest of the military might read negatively into that especially with the example set by the Guard. Would foreshadow their ultimate dissolution in favor of the Warrior Houses and Death Commandos.

Quote from: Blacknova on November 14, 2013, 12:11:36 AM

Based on H: LoT I, the CCAF could be as big as 180+ by the start of the 1st war and have 70+ Warships.

That is the new canon line Blacknova but not mine. We are using the old 129 BattleMech regiment number given in the HLSB and while I will revise the Capellan Navy for Shattered Dawn it will be much larger than this broken version.

Takiro · « **Reply #17 on:** November 14, 2013, 07:27:38 PM »

The Capellan Hussars as presented in Field Report CCAF 2765 were a far larger formation then I thought they'd be. We had planned for 4 such regiments for Shattered Dawn's Threat Assessments 2785 and to see that doubled 20 years before the 1st Succession War is scary. Yikes if they double again in canon before the outbreak of hostilities. I really can't see them expanding too much more then the 8 units described in the Field Report. Without giving too much away I like their histories and reasons for being. By the way the lone regiment specializing in unconventional or special warfare is in the Hussars but with their focus on Chesterton I can't believe they are the national special operations unit.

For Shattered Dawn we had the three Hussar units we knew about - The Red Lancers, The Prefectorate Guard, Blandford's Grenadiers - plus one The Celestial Hand. This fourth and final Capellan Hussar regiment represented the unbreakable bond between the Capellan people and the will of the Chancellor. In that role this regiment called out to defend the most critical planets. This explained why of all of the Hussar units it was the only one to be destroyed before the 4th Succession War. I'm going to retain the Hand in the SD setting although I'm not sure when it was created. In other words it will certainly be around in 2785 but 2600 I'm not that sure.

What do you think?

Blacknova · « **Reply #18 on:** November 14, 2013, 09:26:33 PM »

I think what we will see in canon is slight growth of the line brigades and the development of Reserve Brigades, like the Confederation Reserve Cavalry. Then over the course of the SW's, the line troops get belted and the Reserves absorb what's left.

Takiro · « **Reply #19 on:** November 14, 2013, 10:50:40 PM »

Agreed there buddy. I was actually pretty impressed with the write up on the Confederation Reserve Cavalry. How they augment other forces, sort rapid reinforcements. Liked the idea. Unfortunately since they are a new formation you won't see them in Threat Assessments 2600 but count on it for 2785. We envisioned 6 (traditionally there is one for each Commonalty including Chesterton, we didn't foresee Andurien being a Commonalty) in 2785 but the FR has 7 already in 2765. And yes as you get further down the line you see Reserve Regiments replacing line units during the Succession Wars really showing the devastation caused by the conflicts.

lrose · « **Reply #20 on:** November 15, 2013, 12:03:01 AM »

Quote from: Takiro on November 14, 2013, 07:27:38 PM

The Capellan Hussars as presented in Field Report CCAF 2765 were a far larger formation then I thought they'd be. We had planned for 4 such regiments for Shattered Dawn's Threat Assessments 2785 and to see that doubled 20 years before the 1st Succession War is scary.

And actually a retcon. FMCC p. 51 indicates there is a single regiment per commonality.

Also per HLSB p. 77 the Red Lancers were originally the 2nd Hexare Lancers from the St Ives Commonality. It was the Protectorate Guard that had ties to the Sian Commonality.

For SD I would have 6 to 8 regiments- 1 for each commonality (Tikonov, Sarna, Capella, Sian, St Ives, Andurien, Chesterton(?)) and possibly 1 for the entire CapCon.

Takiro · « **Reply #21 on:** November 16, 2013, 05:54:07 PM »

Quote from: lrose on November 15, 2013, 12:03:01 AM

And actually a retcon. FMCC p. 51 indicates there is a single regiment per commonality.

Thats pretty much how FR CCAF presents the Hussars with a regiment for all seven commonality with the Red Lancers being the Chancellor's regiment. Although the Ares Titans don't "fit" if you ask me. What do you think about keeping the Celestial Hand in the SD setting? Perhaps they are a new unit?

The final nation wide force of the Capellan military is the Capellan Chargers which were hinted at in previous canon publications. Also referred to as the Rangers in FR 2765 they are Liaos version of the Knights of the InnerSphere sort of. Heavily involved with the Lorix Order they rely on the BattleMech, no combined arms here it sounds like to me. Overall I felt their description was a little all over the place. Additionally they seem tided to the Capellan Hegemony which I will cover more in my next post. I think the writers tried to cram too much in here even though I liked their interpretation of the Chargers.

Shattered Dawn had the Chargers as well inspired by FirstStarLord who developed the basic Charger role from the history of Cochraine's Goliaths. Building on their profile as a clue to the Charger's overall mission profile, he surmised that the Chargers were an assault brigade. Usually Capellan units are composed of medium mechs mixed with some heavies and lights in support. The Goliaths on the other hand were one of the few regiments in the CCAF to use assault mechs in large numbers.

Here is the SD Overview: The Chargers are the "strong hammer" of the Capellan military. Quite simply they are a four regiment force of heavy and assault BattleMechs used to spearhead assaults against heavily defended enemy worlds. The Chargers carry this aggressive tactical doctrine to its end point both on and off the battlefield. Typical their members are described as brash and callous in manner. In other words they come straight to the point and wonâ€™t hesitate to fight if provoked.

Gonna do my damnest to integrate both visions but is it possible??

lrose · « **Reply #22 on:** November 16, 2013, 06:49:51 PM »

Quote from: Takiro on November 16, 2013, 05:54:07 PM

Quote from: lrose on November 15, 2013, 12:03:01 AM
And actually a retcon. FMCC p. 51 indicates there is a single regiment per commonality.

Thats pretty much how FR CCAF presents the Hussars with a regiment for all seven commonality with the Red Lancers being the Chancellor's regiment. Although the Ares Titans don't "fit" if you ask me. What do you think about keeping the Celestial Hand in the SD setting? Perhaps they are a new unit?

But if you are going for 1 regiment per commonality what they have doesn't work.
Red Lancers- should represent St Ives but in the revised canon represent Sian
Blandford's Grenadiers represent Tikonov but now apparent represent Sarna- not
Gryff's Hussars represent St Ives
Ares Titans represent Capella
Prefectorate Guard represents Capella
Marshals of Tikonov represent Tikonov
Chesterton Guardians represent Chesterton
Andurien Heavy Guard represent Andurien

I don't get the Blandford's Grenadiers representing Sarna and I don't care for the Ares Titans. I would keep Blandford's Grenadiers as the Tikonov unit, drop the Ares Titans and Marshals of Tikonov and add a Sarna Regiment. We can also keep the Celestial Hand - I have no problem with a pan-Confederation unit.

Quote

Here is the SD Overview: The Chargers are the "strong hammer" of the Capellan military. Quite simply they are a four regiment force of heavy and assault BattleMechs used to spearhead assaults against heavily defended enemy worlds. The Chargers carry this aggressive tactical doctrine to its end point both on and off the battlefield. Typical their members are described as brash and callous in manner. In other words they come straight to the point and wonâ€™t hesitate to fight if provoked.

Gonna do my damnest to integrate both visions but is it possible??

I think it will work. The Chargers are described as the "heavily armored core of the CCAF". During the Age of War they are said to go"diving into the thick of every major offensive". 2 regiments (the 1st & 2nd) are described as being heavy units, the 3rd is described as being light-medium and the 4th is not described (so we can do whatever we want...). What I would say is that the 1st, 2nd a& 4th are heavy units, the 3rd is a lighter and used to provide recon/scouting for the other regiments. The units mechwarriors are described as having an arrogant swagger and seeing themselves as "virtual gods amongst men"- which ties in to the brash and callous nature we are going for. I think with just a little work we can easily make the Chargers fit what we want.

Takiro · « **Reply #23 on:** November 19, 2013, 10:15:03 PM »

Quote from: lrose on November 16, 2013, 06:49:51 PM

And actually a retcon. FMCC p. 51 indicates there is a single regiment per commonality.

Well then I screwed up Irose cause there should have been more Capellan Hussars for BTSD. At least seven, one for each commonalty, although we didnâ€™t originally envision an Andurien Commonalty. However, I donâ€™t get the new canon line with some of these units especially if you have one per Commonalty. The original canon three are the Red Lancers (Sian or the Chancellorâ€™s Guard), The Prefectorate Guard (Capella), and Blandford's Grenadiers (Tikonov). I donâ€™t have the foggiest idea why the Marshals of Tikonov (Tikonov?) were invented when you had the Grenadiers. Got no problem with Gryffâ€™s Hussars (St. Ives), Chesterton Guardians (Chesterton), and Andurien Heavy Guard (Andurien) but the Ares Titans (Capella?). Again you already have a Capellan Hussar representative for this region and why is there such a need to exemplify the Ares Conventions? Also donâ€™t you think theyâ€™d be ticked when they get tossed by I donâ€™t know pick your poison? Periphery rebels, Amaris Imperials, SLDF, any Successor Lord including the Chancellor?? Anyhow what the hell did Sarna do to end up in the doghouse for this entire report? Iâ€™ll explain that latter but there should be at least one Capellan Hussar regiment from that Commonalty. Any name suggestions? Iâ€™d also like to keep the total number of regiments to nine in 2785. Figure that is an entire division of BattleMechs.

Anyhow back to the Field Report and starting with the Capellan Chargers the rest of the CCAF units I list will all be Commonalty Forces. They are all from one of the seven political subdivisions of the Confederation. Makes sense as we planned something similar for BTSD and before I go into detail on the new canon units I want to tell you what we had originally planned for Threat Assessments 2785. Recognizing the St. Ives Armored Cavalry as the military of one such subdivision we thought why not have the Confederation defense apparatus composed of similar mini militaries. After all there were examples to be found in the old canon text like Tikonov Border Guard, the Capellan Defense Force, and the Sarna Shock Brigades. The Field Report however just gives traditional BattleMech unit names for each Commonalty Force and I suppose it is justified. However with the coming of Threat Assessments 2600 maybe we can show a CCAF in transition. Iâ€™d like to stick with our ideas for the earlier work and foreshadow the modernization or centralization of the Capellan military into its 2785 form. What do you think?

Ice Hellion · « **Reply #24 on:** November 20, 2013, 03:03:02 PM »

Takiro, how much units do you have and how much could you find in this Field Report?

Takiro · « **Reply #25 on:** November 20, 2013, 05:31:07 PM »

Well Ice, Threat Assessments 2785 is set on the eve of the 1st Succession War some two decades after Field Report CCAF 2765. So we were operating under the high water mark of the CCAF given in the HLSB at 129 Mech regiments while the Field Report deals with a rearming Liao military just before the Amaris Coup at 92 regiments. Threat Assessments 2785 originally split the CCAF into 14 units (including two SLDF expatriate formations not yet mentioned and the Northwind Highlanders) while FR CCAF 2765 has 10 major formations (units like the Capellan Hussars, Capellan Chargers, Liao Guard, etc.).

Takiro · « **Reply #26 on:** November 21, 2013, 06:14:46 PM »

Okay lets talk Liao Lancers which are a unit pointed to by previous canon material (the HLSB and the Succession War board game). The Preston's Lancers and the Blackwind Lancers both hinted at this bye gone formation which fans speculated on the forums. The rub for me comes with their assignment as the Commonalty Force for Sarna in Field Report CCAF 2765 which is detailed extensively in the first Lancers paragraph. The previous Commonalty unit, the Sarna Sabres, was infamous for its savagery and war crimes during the Age of War. The disreputable Sabres came to an end in 2529 when they were shattered in an assault against the Free Worlds League when they were disbanded. I liked that story but found the Lancers formation as their replacement less than appealing. Of the 16 regiments that make up the Lancers in 2765 only 6 hail from the Sarna Commonalty and before the Edict of 2650 was repealed (?) out of the 7 regiments that made up the Lancers only 2 were Sarn. It just seems to me that they wanted it both ways. Lets have a national force as a commonalty force. Doesn't feel right to me. Then there is the 14th "Zurich" Lancers (who become the Blackwind Lancers) existing in 2765. Huh?? Zurich is a Terran world and no where in my research did I find evidence that it was a shared world with the Capellans. Could it have been? Sure I guess as the Terran-Capellan border was a frequently disputed one but it seems like they jumped the gun to me. See here;

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blackwind_Lancers

So the whole text on the Lancers just left me confused and ultimately disappointed.

For Shattered Dawn I think we will stick with our Capellan Lancers which were pieced together by myself and several others (Irose, FirstStarLord, and more). Here is the overview;

Quote

Several times throughout its history the Confederation has recruited line military units from specific worlds. This whole scale conscription seems arbitrary and ill-conceived to foreigners who individually elect to join the military. In Capellan society such efforts are considered the norm as the individual rights are less important then the well being of the whole. The Lancer Program fosters a special camaraderie among its participants who have the high honor of being chosen to serve the state. Their world is also rewarded with service benefits and recognition which provide significant boosts to the locale economy. Potential aspirants, often Home Guard units, train along senior Lancer formations like the 1st (Preston) Lancers. The 1st claims to have instructed many illustrious Capellan units like the Red Lancers and the St. Ives Lancers. Many groups across the nation have tried to become Capellan Lancers but few who do succeed. Graduate units either stay with the Parent Formation and become teachers themselves or go onto serve in other Line Formations. As such they are Liaoâ€™s version of training cadre essentially serving up feeder units for the Confederation military.

Now I plan to refine that and retain a Sarn unit for Threat Assessments. Not sure how exactly we will work it out and I'd love to hear some suggestions.

lrose · « **Reply #27 on:** November 21, 2013, 07:02:34 PM »

Quote from: Takiro on November 21, 2013, 06:14:46 PM

I liked that story but found the Lancers formation as their replacement less than appealing.

Agreed- this didn't make much sense to me.

Quote

Then there is the 14th "Zurich" Lancers (who become the Blackwind Lancers) existing in 2765. Huh?? Zurich is a Terran world and no where in my research did I find evidence that it was a shared world with the Capellans. Could it have been? Sure I guess as the Terran-Capellan border was a frequently disputed one but it seems like they jumped the gun to me. See here;

Per HLSB p. 91 the Zurich Lancers were raised during the Amaris Coup and 1 battalion was unofficially loaned to General Kerensky in the closing stages of the war. Maybe the use of Zurich was to disguise the fact that this was a Capellan unit aiding the the SLDF. You call them the Zurich Lancers and people would think they are from Zurich, despite the fact that all of the troops are Capellan and all of their support & equipment comes from the CCAF.

That said they should not exist in 2765- I would put their creation at 2768 or 69.

Quote

Now I plan to refine that and retain a Sarn unit for Threat Assessments. Not sure how exactly we will work it out and I'd love to hear some suggestions.

We had talked about using the old Sarna Shock Brigades. I kind of like that name and it fits with the description of the Sarna forces.

Takiro · « **Reply #28 on:** November 22, 2013, 06:36:06 AM »

BTSD Fix will retain the Capellan Lancers as an ancient national unit of the Confederation. We could have them fill in for the Sabres temporarily and train their replacement formation.

I was thinking of the Sarna Lancers as our new Capellan Hussar unit.

As for the Sarna Shock Brigade and the other mini militaries would you like to keep them or like I suggested disband them during the Star League era showing transitioning CCAF?

lrose · « **Reply #29 on:** November 22, 2013, 08:53:34 AM »

Quote from: Takiro on November 22, 2013, 06:36:06 AM

As for the Sarna Shock Brigade and the other mini militaries would you like to keep them or like I suggested disband them during the Star League era showing transitioning CCAF?

Personally I find the 2765 unit names bland. The lancers/hussars/regulars/guards/dragoons nomenclature- that sounds a bit AFFS for me. Yes there is going to be some overlap in nomenclature but I think each state should have unique flavor.

I much prefer for Tikonov using the name Tikonov Border Guard (or even Tikonov Union Guard which was used originally by Blandford's Grenadiers.). (although to be fair there were references to the 1st & 3rd Tikonov Lancers fighting on Lee in 2363 HLSB p.25 so I guess that works.) I also happen to like the name Sarna Shock Brigade- I have visions of them using mass swarming attacks against their enemies, which result in heavy casualties that lead to their demise.

That said I think we either need to throw out the FM for BTSD or incorporate it with minimal changes (i.e. fix the issues we have with the units in the Capellan Hussars, drop the Zurich Lancers from 2765, etc)

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Author Topic: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765 (Read 32011 times)

Blacknova

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

Takiro

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

Takiro

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

Blacknova

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

Takiro

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

lrose

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

Takiro

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

lrose

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

Takiro

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

Ice Hellion

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

Takiro

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

Takiro

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

lrose

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

Takiro

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765

lrose

Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765