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Author Topic: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765  (Read 31752 times)

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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2013, 10:30:38 AM »
I got no problem with keeping Commonality Forces the way we had them. We can include some of Field Report CCAF 2765 but certain stuff is just plain wrong.  I do agree the nomenclature does give you a davion feel but there would be a certain amount of that given the Star League integration. True Liao units names I'll have to think about. Some Russian names for Tikonov fit. What of Sarna? A Carthage feel? A Fanatic or Zealot name??
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 07:53:53 PM by Takiro »
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FirstStarLord

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2013, 11:40:25 PM »
See, this is one reason I think the revised totals for the House militaries given by Liberation of Terra Vol. 1 are useful. I have a feeling that the whole point of giving those greatly expanded numbers mean that a player can add a significant number of "new" formations for his Succession War campaigns without having to trample over the units explored in these new Field Reports or old canon. I know Takiro wants to stay close to the hard numbers given in the old Sourcebooks from the 80's, but if we are complaining about the small navies, we should expand that argument to the land-based forces as well. The Great Houses should have big fleets, and have even bigger mech and conventional forces to match.

A lot of good work went into those initial drafts for the TA 2785 militaries, and I don't think either they or the new material provided by the writers should go to waste. And if it gives us an excuse to clean up some discrepancies and maybe even create some more material in the process, so much the better.

Although, I should probably download the FR first before I go around making too many bold declarations.  :P
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2013, 08:49:12 PM »
Happy Birthday FirstStarLord! Good hearing from you again.

I'd like to stay faithful to the 129 BattleMech regiments even though we are an alternate universe as Knightmare keeps reminding me. You guys are definitely right to push for changes but I'm trying not to loose touch with what came before. It is a difficult balance. Larger warship fleets is a must for BTSD, there will be a dramatic difference between new canon and us there.

Trying to meld what we can of the Field Report series (which is worth the money, its just a flawed work in my opinion) is a personal goal of mine. For example, I like the Marshals of Tikonov but not as a Capellan Hussar unit so my proposal for BTSD is to include them in the Tikonov Border Guard (Commonalty Force). Most of the TBG will still be composed of the Tikonov Lancers seen in the Field Report. Was also thinking we could have another force like Irose suggested the Tikonov Guard perhaps split off from Blandford's Grenadiers during the buildup. That way we have four or five different units within the TBG like the St. Ives Armored Cavalry. To me the Commonalty Forces like the Tikonov Lancers are bland with a singular designation and unLiaoLike. We originally had Kincaid's Rangers, Lefarge Hussars, and a number of Lancer regiments making up the TBG for Shattered Dawn. Otherwise the Tikonov Lancers from the Field Report are fine by me.

The St. Ives Armored Cavalry is perhaps the best unit write up in the Field Report because it gets the right feel for me. Like the Centauri Guards and other units included within.

The Sian Dragoons are the other side of the coin and amplify the problem with the Tikonov Lancers. As the Dragoons are the largest formation in the CCAF with 17 Mech regiments fielded as of 2765 seeing the number 1 through 17 isn't at all Liaoifying to me. Granted we don't know that much about the units of this time but what of the Lost Legion of Shuen Wan? We couldn't have come up with a few Chinese sounding unit names? Diversification will be my goal here again.

This leaves the two remaining Commonalty Forces from disputed regions to discuss. BTSD didn't plan to have an Andurien Force but after reading Field Report 2765: CCAF I guess it isn't a horrible idea. The Andurien Hussars are again too generalized in individual unit name which was the trend for areas who didn't have known forces at this time. A little lazy to me. The Commonalty and its rise in crime following the departure of Marik authorities is interesting. Good area for UrbanMechs. You could really play up the peacekeeping and security duties of this Commonalty Force, just have to think of a name.

The Chesterton Regulars join the St. Ives Armored Cavalry as my favorite Commonalty Forces from the Field Report because it gets that Confederation military unit feel right. Your all over the place with individual unit names, formations like the Chesterton Cavalry which are missing members, and even talk of the Fenlons of Davion ruled Cheterton along with the rightful Hargreaves rulers in exile.

Well folks only one more entry left for me to conclude my review, the warships included in the Field Report. Stay tuned!
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2013, 10:50:12 PM »
Alright lets talk Black Lion I. I liked seeing James McKenna's the long lost Battlecruiser finally canonized. Its unusual but not unprecedented in the BattleTech universe to have a class named for its first ship. The design reminds of the Dreadnought seen in Historical: Reunification War. The art from Technical Readout 2750 for the original Black Lion is a nice touch.

However Field Report CCAF 2765 isn't the place for the Black Lion I in my opinion. A Capella warship other than the Du Shi Wang would have been more appropriate. Irregardless of what agenda TPTB are pushing numerous Liao warship designs were built during the Age of War and would be better then these first generation Terran warships. I'll get more into House Warship designs, known canon classes, and different warship generations in a separate post.

A few glaring things stand out. Docking collars are stated to be unavailable at the time of its design (2315) and yet the Dart (TRO3057 Revised) which was introduced ten years earlier has 6! Now the Dart is the only one of the five known first generation Terran warships to have docking collars so maybe the mistake is there.

What is an unforgivable fluff mistake leads off the Black Lion overview and is a glaring error. As the Black Lion was introduced in 2315 and the Hegemony formed in 2316 it was a Terran Alliance design not a Hegemony design which is clearly implied. Getting started on the wrong foot like this really put me off.

All that being said this design will replace BTSDs Hegemony class Battlecruiser which was heavier had more armor and 4 docking collars. I will incorporate the fluff into a better fleshed out design at some future time. If your interested in comparing design you can find the Hegemony in FM Terran Republic 2785.

Next up the Soyal.
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lrose

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2013, 06:12:40 AM »
Quote from: Takiro on November 29, 2013, 10:50:12 PM
Its unusual but not unprecedented in the BattleTech universe to have a class named for its first ship.

Actually pre-SW it seems that ship classes were named after the first ship.  The change seems to have occurred with the re-introduction of warships in the 3050s.

Quote
A few glaring things stand out. Docking collars are stated to be unavailable at the time of its design (2315) and yet the Dart (TRO3057 Revised) which was introduced ten years earlier has 6! Now the Dart is the only one of the five known first generation Terran warships to have docking collars so maybe the mistake is there.

I think this is easy to work around.  From various books prior to the introduction of the docking collar, Jumpships could carry large (5000 ton) shuttles in internal bays.  Just treat the "docking collars" on the Dart as large shuttle bays in the early 2300s and then you can say later they were refitted to be standard docking collars. 

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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2013, 11:02:34 AM »
Quote from: lrose on November 30, 2013, 06:12:40 AM
I think this is easy to work around.  From various books prior to the introduction of the docking collar, Jumpships could carry large (5000 ton) shuttles in internal bays.  Just treat the "docking collars" on the Dart as large shuttle bays in the early 2300s and then you can say later they were refitted to be standard docking collars.

I don't know Irose perhaps our Darts should just lack docking collars and incorporate the space as cargo. When was the docking collar introduced again?


The Soyal is the final topic for my review of Field Report CCAF 2765. It is a contradiction of sorts with the small navies envisioned by TPTB to have this warship that features a mass driver. Really throws you for a loop that the Capellan Navy is so tiny but more than a quarter of its vessels are the brand new Soyal! Oh and the rest of its ships according to the Field Report are ancient, talk about upgrade. Before the Soyal the newest ship in the Capellan Navy are a pair of Caron class Destroyers (2632) and a trio of Barons (2520). The rest of the fleet are relics from the 2400s and 2300s. I was just rereading how poorly the House Fleets of the 3050s were put together in Strategic Operations and was that writer lacking perspective.

You’d figure more of these failed Star League designs would make it into Capellan service during the Golden Age of Mankind as Dehli Warships could simply shift operations from its facility on Carver to Capella. I mean the Capellan Navy is said to have three Vincent class Corvettes in 2765 why not more? They were built for the Star League by Dehli Warships and certainly a low tech version would have been available for wider spread use and that is a successful SLDF ship. Other failed projects could have made into the latest generation of House Warships.

Its classification as a Heavy Cruiser doesn’t bother. The natural upward progression of naval classes to the heavier side would have likely continued even if Mass Drivers were not deployed. Other than the Medium Mass Driver and a pair of Heavy Naval Gausses nothing else on the Soyal is that advanced tech wise proving that the original Star League entry was stripped down for House naval building.

You’d have to think the other Great Houses will attempt to match this innovation in the field. The FWLM ordered some Soyals from Dehli Warships probably not as many as the CCAF fields but that is another power that we know fields mass drivers. Couldn’t you just see the Lyrans trying like hell to fit a Heavy Mass Driver on something or Kurita maybe Davion fooling around with a Light Mass Driver warship. During the fall of the Star League with an arms race under way you’d certainly think so. Especially with the SLDF putting a prototype Kimagure the SLS Surprise in the field.

All in all I can’t being myself to hate this conflicted design I can easily see these planet killers on the battlefield of the 1st Succession War. I’d like to incorporate them in the BTSD storyline as it brings another kind of mass destruction to the playing field. During the Star League era I’d see them as a major diplomatic bone of contention with neighboring realms being concerned about this WMD. Certainly more could have been written about this ship and its infamy. I’d imagine they’d have a bad name for awful catastrophes and perhaps help bring an end to the age of the warship.
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muttley

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2013, 03:58:04 PM »
Sure- a few Soyals could have been helping Marik "burn" that parsec-wide corridor...
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2013, 05:56:06 PM »
It is an interesting thought about these Interstellar WMD and word is Kurita has a warship that outperforms the Soyal. We will have to wait and see on that and now for some final thoughts on the review.

All in all Field Report CCAF 2765 leaves me feeling truly conflicted, which is a true shame. I’m happy that Star League era was given more coverage in canon but in some ways I’m not. In spots the Field Report gets it right especially leading off with a brief overview that really nails the Confederation’s status. Let me also praise the outlay and overall look of this book. The art is done well as the page layout with that omnipresent Liao symbol. If you buy this work print it, looks very nice. The Liao Home Guard, the nation’s industrial base, and the St. Ives Armored Cavalry all seemed right to me.

Some units like the Commonalty Forces feel real generic. Ah they’re gonna get killed soon anyway so there is no love there. Other places your left feeling this is 3025 where there is no Hegemony and the Periphery powers are wholly unimportant. Yet in this 2765 setting both of these foreign powers should not have been forgotten. They were an integral concern to the CCAF which should not have been overlooked. Where is the Capellan Special Forces at this time, this is another big oversight. Failing to at least address the Northwind Highlanders a key Liao unit felt like the author didn’t want to draw fire for a mistake.

Again I must say the Capellan Navy is the worst. I understand efforts to scale back the warship and reduce its presence but what is left here was done so badly I can’t even call it a fleet. The lack of Liao designs is the bitterest pill to swallow. There is plenty of time for development of said fleet from 2380 with the introduction of the Du Shi Wang through the Age of War into the Star League to 2765. Almost 400 years of naval construction and only one true Capellan warship design ever survives to this time?! Sorry don’t buy it.

So at the end of the day Field Report 2765 is really all over the place. Don’t get me wrong it is interesting in places but except for the big Soyal reveal there isn’t anything new to spark thought. In my opinion its not gonna get you excited about playing in this time period which is a true shame. I do plan to incorporate some pieces of Field Report CCAF 2765 into our Threat Assessment series but ultimately was disappointed with this book. I can’t say don’t buy cause if you’re a Capellan fan or someone looking to play in this time period it maybe somewhat useful. I still have high hopes for the rest of the series and hope that future Reports will address some of these issues.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2013, 11:59:07 PM »
I really liked the size and feel of the Capellan forces except for the WarShips where it was truly let down.  At the same time I kinda understand it.

Me personally I'd have probably had 3-4 designs per faction because of the era.  It would have at least brought the Capellans closer to a couple of the other nations which already have quite a few designs floating around.

The Biggest problem to date for the Capellans is they've lacked the back-up from the products the Dui Shi Wang was the only real WarShip that they had with a big "Capellan go faster this one is ours" sticker on it.


The Lyrans have already had a few
Davion has more than a few
Draconis Combine's a little light on homegrown talent if memory serves (Samarkand... Samarkand II...  ???)
as is the Free Worlds League (Atreus)

Bigger problem for the developers is you have the Taurians who already have 3 or 4 of their own designs and they are a Periphery nation!!

Now biggest easy way to explain this is some of the Succession States were lazy instead of developing their own designs they concentrated on other areas - advanced line regiments - LAMs etc and bought Star League Navy cast offs.  While the Taurians who wouldn't have access to such stores went out and built their own knowing they couldn't match their enemies on the ground so they went into space.

The Federated Suns have a big developed navy because of their neighbours the Taurians having one.  And the Lyrans have their developed navy because of the Rim Worlds Republic.  Both act as nice counters and buffer states for the Star League so their ship numbers are overlooked and probably well supported (Aegis in both their fleets)

Unfortunately you have sourcebooks both old and new that state that WarShip fleets were pretty huge and really common until the Succession Wars which killed them all (a personal gripe but it's also one from the Jihad so I'm not winning there - I don't mind them dying its the not being replaced bit I don't like)

I guess there has to be a balance.  You as a developer produce something that will grab attention (Field Reports) to the wide audience and bolt a couple of WarShips on the back while slimming down the WarShip fleets (and taking a bit of flak) while making a couple of pennies.

or

You produce something with 10 WarShips in it that few people care about and it doesn't make enough money to cover itself.

Given the two I can understand why they went with option one - annoying as it is.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 12:01:55 AM by Dragon Cat »
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FirstStarLord

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Re: Reviewing FR CCAF 2765
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2013, 10:59:22 PM »
Finally got my hands on this one, and the one thing that strikes me is the strong parallels it has to the report found in FM: 3145. A lot of the 32nd century CCAF units are reborn regiments of the Star League era. One might say it represents the "rebirth" of Capellan military power to levels not seen in centuries, but the cynic in me feels that it was mostly done to not burden the writing staff with too many new units to flesh out at the same time.

With that out of the way, I like the overall layout of the report. I think the CCAF was depicted in a balanced and fair light. Capellan soldiers are good both as individuals and in a group, but the industrial and social limitations of the state they serve reduce their combat power greatly. It matches up nicely with the depiction of House Liao's army in the original soucebook from the 80's, and nods to continuity are always nice. I will echo some of the complaints made by other posters on this thread, in that some of the brigades feel disconnected of what we already knew about the pre-4th SW CCAF from older sources. The big omission is Sung's Cuirassiers, who were stated to have been reformed sometime before 2761 in the old House Liao SB. An explanation for the Preston Lancers would have been nice to have, since there are so many lancer regiments depicted in this report as it is. The miraculous existence of the Zurich Lancers years before they should have been formed is another irksome mistake.

Those are small nitpicks in the larger scheme however. I think it's a great set up for the future expansion of the CCAF during the Amaris crisis and breakdown of the Star League. I hope the other field reports can at least match if not exceed it in quality.

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