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Author Topic: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765  (Read 45172 times)

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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2014, 05:02:14 PM »

Interesting FirstStarLord, I don’t believe I was ever made aware of the ‘Draconis Regiments’ before your posts. The generic nature of their name and their sole appearance in the 3rd Succession War could make them a conscript force of sorts. I’m thinking that as the cataclysmic Succession War drag on the Dragon may assemble whole regiments of local Mechwarrior on a need basis. Assembling retired veterans, noble guards, corporate security, and planetary militia into national regiments sort of like the American National Guard could give birth to these units. Thanks for the info and I’d love to hear what you think.

Now back to reviewing FR DCMS 2765 starting with the Proserpina Hussars. While their entry gives a good accounting of this effective mobile force there really isn’t anything new here. Two older corvettes attached directly to this rapid reaction formation almost gave me flashbacks to Calbeck’s Eridani Light Horse “profile”. Also “ability trumping loyalty” snapped me into the Clan philosophy especially with Proserpina commanders having the right to test any personnel sent to them by the DCMS. Don’t get me wrong I liked the write up but found it to be a rehash of many different threads. The part I liked best about the Hussars was their nomadic lifestyle which moves so quickly supplies and personnel have difficulty catching up. That was the most unique piece of info gleaned. That and the fact Procurement oversupplies them which leads me to wonder if they could disguise Shadow Regiments either within the Hussars or around the Combine.
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FirstStarLord

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2014, 12:23:03 AM »

Certainly the Combine (and the Houses in general) formed a lot of new brigades during the course of the Succession Wars. The Draconis Regiments could have just as easily been formed in 2950 as they could have in 2780. I like the idea of them being formed out of shattered units and irregular forces, Jinjiro Kurita seemed to be a big fan of such tactics, but their description in the Mercenary Handbook gave them the appearance of front-line forces. They were on New Wessex to prepare for a deep raid into Lyran territory, and the Widows were deployed in part to gain counter-intelligence and sabotage those efforts. That Yamashiga was so incompetent that he allowed his regiment to be picked in detail by Kerensky and her men was more or less a reflection on him. The 20th seemed like a decent DCMS command otherwise, but that's conjecture on my part.
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2014, 10:31:46 PM »

For the Rasalhague Regulars all things seem colored by disloyalty. This should be expected given the region’s history with the Dragon but I would have liked to have seen something else. Two pages of don’t trust was too much for me. How about some background information on Rasalhague like the Sorensons’ backing of the renewed Kurita dynasty. There is a mention of a Warlord Sorenson but nothing else about the Prince of Rasalhague or their special status. It is interesting that the SLDF was asked by the Coordinator to crack down on “anti-League terrorists” and that Sword of Light units along with Pesht Regulars get the call to suppress any rebellions.

My problem with the Regulars as presented by FR DCMS 2765 is the size and scope of the force. The second largest division, why? Twenty six regiments is a massive force but they garrison the smallest Military District in the Draconis Combine. They aren’t called to suppress rebellions and can’t be trusted with much but we outfitted them with more than two dozen Mech regiments. I can’t really figure that out. The write up for Rasalhague just left me wanting more info and less force.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #63 on: January 12, 2014, 02:22:01 AM »

My problem with the Regulars as presented by FR DCMS 2765 is the size and scope of the force. The second largest division, why? Twenty six regiments is a massive force but they garrison the smallest Military District in the Draconis Combine. They aren’t called to suppress rebellions and can’t be trusted with much but we outfitted them with more than two dozen Mech regiments. I can’t really figure that out. The write up for Rasalhague just left me wanting more info and less force.

And if they are so big and eager to get free, why don't they rebel?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2014, 10:17:02 PM »

And if they are so big and eager to get free, why don't they rebel?

Well there is the ISF, personnel assigned from other regions, Procurement dangling carrots for those who behave, frequent base world rotation, and frequent personnel reassignment especially among support units. Other than that your guess is as good as mine Ice.  ;)

For our final DCMS unit lets talk Sun Zhang Cadre which while somewhat repetitive is a solid entry at least in my opinion. The harsh training and discipline has fostered some of the finest Mechwarriors ever known. It should be no surprise that Mechwarrior elitism is in vogue here as you don't want to be a lowly support unit for these guys. Think typical infantry cannon fodder horror stories you've heard and ya got the picture. I liked the typical assignments that were described in the write up and what exactly each cadet is expected to learn while part of the Cadre. Quite extensive and may I say they are ready to command when they reach their first true DCMS assignment.

I could see the Cadres as excellent auxiliaries for a Sword of Light unit during the Succession Wars participating in planetary conquests together with SoL drawing necessary replacements as needed. An angle I'm thinking of for BTSD's Threat Assessments is one of Generational Shift. The Field Report says of all DCMS units the Cadres are the most hostile towards the SLDF. The reasons they give make sense but I wonder if this hatred has been taken to a new level by cadets who will come of age in the Jinjiro era who have seen the League degrade. Just as in 2600 as there could have been an uptick in cooperation (yeah nothing overly friendly but a mutual respect) with the Cadres and the SLDF. This cycle towards the start of the Succession War would see some of the worst hate for the SLDF expressed ever.
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2014, 10:09:02 PM »

First off I like the fact that the Draconis Combine Admiralty (DCA) was given special attention in this Field Report. Regardless of the decision to limit warship numbers for this era which I strongly disagree with it was good to see a Navy featured so prominently.

Again while I do buy the fact that the Combine doesn't have as much industrial infrastructure as other powers of the time (I'd rank the Hegemony, the Commonwealth, the League, and the Suns ahead of them) I can not accept their "small fleet" in regards to numbers. Given the advantages of their neighbors concentrating on a smaller (size wise) and faster fleet does make sense. Steiner likes to build it big and likely slow, Davion has four classes (three of which we already have the designs for) indicating a solid naval organization, and the Hegemony is far and away the bast. In the face of these naval powers the DCA should concentrate on overwhelming their larger opponents with swarms of mobile warships and fighters. I'm proud to say that BTSD agrees with these canon conclusions in this regard. Spot on.

Far from the Mechwarrior Elitists of the DCMS, the Admiralty recruits from a deep pool of candidates than the high born ground force. This is certainly something I'm going to highlight for BTSD and could have several profound effects on the DCA perhaps making it a more highly skilled organization than the DCMS. Although I'd doubt the DCMS would ever admit that. Talent more than anything seems to govern the DCA which this fosters pride and a skill level that could exceed any other Navy in the InnerSphere. The caveat is of course that no matter how high the DCA rises it is always at the mercy of the DCMS which could limit its effectiveness. Such thoughts will be on my mind as I write Threat Assessments.

Next up I'll comment on the naval designs included in the Field Report and wrap up my thoughts on it all.
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2014, 11:29:10 AM »

The Narukami class Destroyer represents the second example of confusing House built warships presented in the Field Report series. It is another example of the Houses get it right the first time but could never again construct a successful warship class for the next 4 centuries! True the Samarkand class gives the DCA an exception to the rule that the Capellans didn't have. Forcing this rationale seems silly to me but hey....

I really liked the design itself and the high maintenance issues it had. Makes me wonder in light of the failure of the Tatsukami class in the Clan era why the DCA didn't commission a Block III of the Narukami. This fast hard hitting tin can is a nice fit for any Navy despite any use issues.  More of a hard charger than a broad side fighter this attack vessel could be a real hit and run asset.



« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 11:56:53 AM by Takiro »
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lrose

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2014, 01:40:40 PM »

The Narukami class Destroyer represents the second example of confusing House built warships presented in the Field Report series. It is another example of the Houses get it right the first time but could never again construct a successful warship class for the next 4 centuries!

This isn't necessarily true. From the DCA write up:

As a result, there are only two Combine designed-and-built WarShip classes currently in service.

This can be read that there are/were other DC designed ships, but none are in service in 2750.  Maybe they were scrapped or mothballed in favor of "superior" (i.e. easier to maintain) TH/SLDF ships. 

And to comment on an earlier post - I wonder if the DCA has a disproportionate number of women.  Maybe women face less discrimination and just more on their merits then there sex, unlike in the DCMS.  Just something to think about.

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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2014, 02:19:31 PM »

Yeah you can read into that Irose that there were other ships but how did the first Combine warship ever not get replaced? No other Destroyer classes were made to take its place? And the age of some of the Terrans cast offs like the Cruiser is too much for me looking objectively at canon information. 

While I'm on the topic let's talk Cruiser class Cruiser. The comedic relief of warships In appearance is not a bad combat vessel.  Outdated certainly as getting parts for the Drop Shuttle bay has gotta be hard after 440 years. Strap on some nukes to them capital missile launchers and your ready to wreck it.

However during the Star League and with Kurita this slow destroyer sized Cruiser doesn't really fit in service.  In mothballs I could see but other Kurita vessels had to be able to outperform the beer can battleship. I gotta start a new topic analyzing warship development but I find it hard to believe that the Cruiser Cruiser could outperform a second generation house warship from the mid 2400s.

And yes Irose the DCA is full of lesser warrior candidates unlike the sexist DCMS.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 02:20:49 PM by Takiro »
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lrose

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2014, 03:00:33 PM »

Keep in mind the DCA mothballed ALL of the Narukami's during the 2600s.   The Narukami entry talks about mothballing the class, which leads to the implication that the 6 in service in 2765 were returned to service between 2750 and 2765.  Now why did the DC decide to return the Narukami to service if they had better, newer destroyers in Mothballs?  Maybe the Narukami had a better reputation (not that they were necessarily better, just a better rep- much like on December 6th, 1941 most US Navy officers would have preferred a Battleship to an Aircraft Carrier).  Maybe the follow on to the Narukami was worse then the Narukami- it's not like this hasn't happened in real life.  I don't disagree with you about the lack of native ships in the house fleets (especially seeing as how the LC and FS have at least 3-4 home built warships to the DC's and CC's 2 ships) but I think you are being a little bit harsh to the writers in this case- given what they had to work with I think they did a decent job.

As for the Cruiser Cruiser- you hit on the biggest problem with the design it's not a Cruiser it as Destroyer.  The weight is too low for a cruiser- even an early cruiser given that the Dart Light Cruiser from 2305 was 680K tons.  If the Dart was a Light Cruiser then the Cruiser is what an Ultralight Cruiser?  I hate trying to invoke logic into Battletech but it would be nice to to see a design that fit in with it's contemporaries. 
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2014, 11:01:38 PM »

Granted Irose and very plausible real life examples. The Narukami could have built a solid reputation for stunning rapid assaults and become legends in the DCA which is pretty cool idea. We could certainly use this angle in BTSD but if you really look at all the information there should be more. New canon pushing smaller warship numbers bothers me and it doesn't make sense. The DCA has two native designs in this 2765 Field Report and thanks to the Samarkand breaks the Capellan example of one native design. The Dragon being such an aggressor would not receive the greatest Terran cast offs and even with their industry which yes is better than the Capellans but no one else should be able to build more than just two ships! I am gathering info on known canon warship classes and I will post it soon but by 2765 the DCA should be constructing fourth or fifth generation warships.

We know the Lyrans (with the best industry outside Terra) have at least three native warship designs. Two, the Tharkad and the Mako, are fresh out of the shipyards (Third Generation - Star League era warships) while the third (Commonwealth) will most likely be detailed in their Field Report. Then the Federated Suns (who I'd place ahead off the Combine but behind the FWL in terms of industry) has at least four native warship designs. Three; the New Syrtis, the Robinson, and the Davion, are already detailed and a fourth (the Defender) will like get cover in FR AFFS 2765. Plus you can make a strong case for native built Congress class Frigates (lower tech then SLDF vessels) which gives them a high tech advanced fleet compared to their poor neighbors. Which leaves the poor Free Worlds League Navy who many thought would be the premier House fleet and a relatively powerful economy/ industry. However we only have two known examples of Marik warship designs and I'll bet you they will be the only ones we see in existence in 2765. The Atreus we know and the League is there pathfinder Dreadnought Warship which will likely be featured in their Field Report. You see I think they are cramming it all in. Known designs will be there in 2765 supplemented by Terran favorites. I'd prefer it if they just left House fleet composition a mystery rather than detailing them with named hodgepodge.

So I was disappointed by Field Report DCMS but the way the DCA was briefed was much better than the Capellan Navy. Leave it a mystery and outline things with broad strokes. Details that don't make sense don't interest me. So while I don't like tiny House fleets it was a better job done here with the Admiralty. The start of the document was well done and set the proper mood and I loved the Dieron Regulars! Great job taking an old canon question mark and turning into a bright spot which fit the history of the Draconis Combine, I can't say enough about it. TPTB took advantage of this unknown and gave us a little more detail. They could have gone further but I give them credit here. I also liked the Sun Zhang Cadres, the Arkab Legions, the Pesht Regulars, and yes even the Galedon Regulars. There was some repeating of known info or themes but I think they built on it with these units. I was disappointed slightly with the Swords of Light and Proserpina Hussars whose entries left me wanting more. I'll save my biggest critique for the Rasalhague Regulars and the Benjamin Regulars. Benjamin was the other side of Dieron and here the writers played it safe. Nothing interesting and information that didn't make sense.

The map included might best show the 3025 view from which this 2765 work suffers from. Look at the worlds per military district and the Prefecture/District borders which remain almost wholly unchanged. It is here that the illusion of this document being from 2765 falls through. Benjamin is just plain too big with 7 Prefectures and approximately 123 inhabited worlds. Whatever happened to the importance of five?! If you split off the two one day Dieron Prefectures you get a 30 world rump district and a more 2765 Benjamin with 93 worlds and 5 prefectures. The Rasalhague District has only 64 worlds in the Field Report map but 26 Mech regiments?! That is nearly a Mech regiment for every other world in Rasalhague. Only Pesht has 5 Prefectures for its 111 worlds and Galedon misses only one Prefecture with 102 worlds. And lets not forget the four BattleMech regiments defending Luthien. Before the infamous Lyran raid early in the 1st Succession War (20 years in the future from 2765) the DCMS kept two regiments on planet as a sizable garrison which were likely augmented by the unlisted Otomo. Just didn't give me the 2765 feel.

But it wasn't all bad and I'm sorry if I made it sound that way. I can be a little rough. Looking ahead I want to see the Athena class Cruiser which presumably replaced or served along side the Aegis class Heavy Cruiser which was mentioned in the Cruiser-Cruiser fluff. And in the end FR DCMS 2765 and its CCAF predecessor were thought provoking. I Known I got a lot of new ideas for my Threat Assessment series. ;)
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lrose

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2014, 05:50:38 PM »

This just got posted over on CBT as Errata for FRDC2765:

Many of these vessels are older Terran Hegemony designs, and includes five older Aegis-class and two two Cruiser-class heavy cruisers, five Baron-class, five Essex I-class and five Lola I-class destroyers, and four Vincent Mk39-class corvettes

Overall not too bad. I would have had 6 Aegis so that each fleet had a Cruiser but this works for me.  Of course the question is where did the DC get its 2 Bonaventures that are listed in the Hesperus Scenario- were they captured from another state or are they still in Mothballs as of 2765?  I'd lean towards them being in Mothballs, but anything is possible. 
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2014, 10:32:14 PM »

So 26 Hegemony Castoffs currently in operation. Doesn't sound horrible to me either. Just not enough Draconis designs but hey. Yeah the Bonaventures are likely in mothballs which along with the Narukami write up does leave a lot of territory for quick expansion. There is also the very real eventuality that has the DCA operating a Secret Fleet.
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lrose

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2014, 08:53:55 AM »

I just noticed something in TR3057R- the Bonaventure entry talks about the THS Cochran during a Combine raid on Imbros III.  The entry states that a Combine destroyer squadron arrived in system and fought the TH forces.  The Cochran lead the Combine forces through the systems asteroid belt ambushing the Combine squadron several time (and here's the important part) "using superior speed to escape".  The Bonaventure is only capable of 4/6 thrust- the Narukami (the only Combine destroyer we know of so far) is capable of 5/8 thrust.  So clearly the Combine must have had a destroyer that could only achieve 3/5 thrust. (well either that or the text in the Bonaventure entry has been effectively retconned.) 
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR DCMS 2765
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2014, 11:12:55 AM »

After we comply the Liao fleet Irose, I was going to move to the DCA which given the Narukami is going to need a lot of work. More than Liao and given the fact that the Narukami's massive engines were a huge maintenance concern I could see the Combine over compensating with a smaller but adequate Destroyer Drive System that was far easier too maintain. This would also build upon the Narukami's performance legends which have that ship outpacing even its predecessor. We had a few Kurita Destroyer designs in BTSD TRO 2800 to choose from including the Kumo (or Cloud which went 4/6 and was introduced in 2540) and the Nami (or Wave based on Lola I goes 4/6 and was out in 2577) which could fit but they could be destroyers 3 and 4 in the DCA history. The Kaze (or Wind which went 5/8) was introduced in 2619 during the Star League and is far too late IMO. When do you think the raid on Imbros would have occurred, some time during the Age of War?? The is no mention of the raid in the SLSB or HKSB.
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