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Author Topic: Reviewing FR AFFS 2765  (Read 18200 times)

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lrose

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Re: Reviewing FR AFFS 2765
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2014, 05:19:58 PM »


Biggest problem age of war era was not that people were building up war fleets they were building nations.

Maybe the CC, but the FWL had been around since 2271, the FS since 2317, the DC since 2320, the LC from 2341 and the CC from 2367.  Most of the states should be past the nation building period when the age of war breaks out. Even the CC should be in decent shape- the individual states were fairly developed, even if the CC as a whole was not fully integrated.


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FR FedSun points to that with Federated Boeing being built

I'm not sure what this has to do with the discussion at hand.  The FS had major shipyards at Delevan, Kathil, Panpour and Layover as well as other yards at New Avalon, New Syrtis and Markesan, representing a fairly strong and healthy aerospace industry. The Galax Fed-Boeing facility according to earlier material wasn't built until 2781, when Boeing Intersteller, in the wake of the Coup, sought to expand outside of the TH.  Even if TPTB change the date so that it is being built in 2765, the reasons for the expansion are still valid, seeking to remove all of their eggs from the one basket they are in.


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I think you'd probably find half a dozen WarShips as the poster child's for the navy but the vast amount of production going on jump ships connecting the realms together.  In the early years I don't see the Succession States as stable entities instead I see the Lords fighting the PR game to keep there nations together.  To do that you need jumpships and solid lines of communication

Yes they need Jumpships for communications, but according to sources Franco Liao had a fleet of over 1000 merchant ships, not the CC, Franco Liao.  Jumpships were plentiful. And by the 2400s the nations were fairly stable, yes you had events like the Davion Civil War, but is that really any different then the FC civil war? or any of the FWL civil wars?  Beside warships are a way to project power.  If a world wants to rebel you just place a warship in orbit and blockade it (yes easier said then done) and orbitally bombard anyone who is a threat.  Just having warships able to travel around on a regular basis showing the flag will remind worlds that they need to stay in line (more important for the DC and CC then say the FS)

Also it just doesn't make sense that you would invest so much in the infrastructure needed to build warships, build 6 and then stop.  Why even make the investment in the first place.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Reviewing FR AFFS 2765
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2014, 06:26:35 PM »

The Defender does say it was plagued with technical issues I think you'll find the in universe explaination is that the Succession States struggled to master WarShip tech the Combine had the same with their design.

So instead you find the Succession States have decent sized jumpship fleets with a smattering of WarShips to die in fun ways

Out of universe I'd say they struggle to comprehend how you can have large WarShip fleets and not more dead worlds.  Also that its hard to have large WarShips when nukes eliminate them easily.  Personally I think it's a shortsighted belief WarShips don't need to be used for orbital bombardment and AMS tech takes steps towards countering nuclear weapons.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 06:28:25 PM by Dragon Cat »
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

lrose

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Re: Reviewing FR AFFS 2765
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2014, 06:55:25 PM »

The Defender does say it was plagued with technical issues I think you'll find the in universe explaination is that the Succession States struggled to master WarShip tech the Combine had the same with their design.


I didn't get the impression that the Defender had technical issues, design flaws yes (limited rear firing weaponry, light armor), but then again every canon vessel has design flaws.  But I agree the Narukami had technical issues and maintenance problems. 


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Out of universe I'd say they struggle to comprehend how you can have large WarShip fleets and not more dead worlds.  Also that its hard to have large WarShips when nukes eliminate them easily.  Personally I think it's a shortsighted belief WarShips don't need to be used for orbital bombardment and AMS tech takes steps towards countering nuclear weapons.

When you say they - are you referring to the writers?  If so the answer is easy- the Ares Conventions prevented that from happening during the Age of War. It was only when they were thrown out during the SW that things got messy. 

I do agree warships are vulnerable to nukes. I also think the warship design rules are largely broken, result in designs with eggshell armor and the inability to add sufficient AMS due to the fire control rules, but that's a different discussion.  When reading the fluff I've never walked away with impression that warships are supposed to be so vulnerable, unless it is intentional in the design like the Defender.

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Dragon Cat

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Re: Reviewing FR AFFS 2765
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2014, 07:47:10 PM »


They - would be the writers.  I've gone around in circles regarding WarShips in canon and the ways they died and decided ill stick with AUs when coming up with WarShips.

Biggest problem with canon is the WarShip was far from the games original intention as the game has evolved it's tried to incorporate them without going back to the start and retconning them completely (by that I mean design capability and construction)

I'd say kudos to the writers for trying to stick with it unfortunately you get large targets.  As nukes and other technology has progressed WarShips largely haven't.  I liked Blacknova's anti fighter/missile defence weapon in the KU universe a WarShip developed defence.

Unfortunately canon designs are left with standard defence weapons to protect them which leaves you with large targets. me finally (in the biggest loop off on topic off topic on topic) back to the field manuals and WarShip numbers... Sort of I think... I THINK the reasoning behind the small numbers is there too expensive and too easy to kill the rules don't give them a fighting chance if you properly want to kill a warship you can.  So you spend your resources on ground forces get to the core gameplay of the universe and have fun.  In many ways makes sense but isn't too great if you like WarShips

Sorry if that's mega off topic... :-[
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 07:49:02 PM by Dragon Cat »
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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

drakensis

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Re: Reviewing FR AFFS 2765
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2014, 02:48:20 AM »

The Syrtis Fusiliers in regards to the Haseks seem too big too fast IMO. While it doesn't give them outright hereditary rulership of the Capellan March, a canon fact that doesn't happen till well into the Succession Wars, no reader of this report would guess that the Haseks aren't the March rulers.

Poor old Damien Hasek.

As a possible means of reconciling this, it's possible that the appointment of Damien Hasek by Paul Davion as Duke wasn't elevating House Hasek to dominance, but simply of that specific Hasek. The previous Duke or Duchess could have been killed and the post vacant for a few years during the First Succession War. It's easy to consider a situation where the ruling branch of the family was wiped out and Damien was a cousin brought in with Davion blessing to take over.
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR AFFS 2765
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2014, 11:58:43 AM »

Well folks you may have noticed the silence around this thread and I'd like to tell you why. I was so disappointed with this Field Report I just don't have much to say about it. Industrially and factually the PDF is the embodiment of 3025 not 2765. On the first page there is a reference to MIIO which was not created until the 1st Succession War disaster which created the need for it. I can go on at nausea but rather than do that Irose and myself have embarked on something new.

Starting today we are going to posting Threat Assessments AFFS 2785. He has done a lot of great work already which I can't wait to post so you can see it and comment on it. We are gonna do this book like we did Field Manual Terra so you'll get to see it, comment and contribute to it before we release the PDF. Hope you enjoy.
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Reviewing FR AFFS 2765
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2014, 07:04:12 PM »

Sounds interesting
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My stuff, and my AU timeline follow link and enjoy

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Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

Red Pins

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Re: Reviewing FR AFFS 2765
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2014, 02:11:06 AM »

Wait - there's nothing on the download page.  There's a new shattered dawn book?
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Takiro

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Re: Reviewing FR AFFS 2765
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2014, 06:00:46 AM »

One post at a time my friend. ;) Right now only the Book Intro is up. More to coming soon. 

Here is a link so you can follow along. Read, Comment, Contribute, or whatever here..............

http://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/shatted-dawn/threat-assessment-affs-2785/
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 06:29:48 AM by Takiro »
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Red Pins

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Re: Reviewing FR AFFS 2765
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2014, 10:32:14 PM »

Tagged.  Disappointed, but have to get my fix from somewhere.
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lrose

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Re: Reviewing FR AFFS 2765
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2014, 10:40:53 PM »

Once we get past the intro material for the new book the rest should be pretty quick- most of the units are already written and just need to be proofed/updated.
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