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Author Topic: Poll - Optimized What's Next  (Read 12480 times)

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Takiro

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Poll - Optimized What's Next
« on: December 20, 2021, 07:34:27 PM »

Well, a few people have been asking me what's next for Salient Horizon and here is your chance to vote on it. Please also explain what your looking for, pros and cons, opinions welcomed!
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Takiro

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2021, 04:29:49 PM »

Ok folks we have a few votes in already on What's Getting Optimized Next. Thought I'd repost the comments from the other thread here as well. Please vote and discuss!

This is a good way to ring out the year, but after having enjoyed this series for over 2 years (and contributed for over a year personally), I have to ask: what next?

Instead of 3055. I either suggest one of two things. Either do Vehicle 3026 version or Aerospace fighters.

55 imo is too soon for many new designs. As even in 3050 those designs were either just coming out or soon coming out.

58-60 would be the next big change with IS coming out with Clan equivalents like ER Medium Streak SRM 6 and such.

I hear ya Bradshaw. My plan for 3055 optimized is different from canon as it will take into account the designs done here which might now occupy roles where replacements might not be necessary. A 3054 Optimized for Vehicles and Aerospace Fighters does sound interesting however. I just might go in that direction. Maybe I will take a pole. ;)

I think optimized aerospace fighters is a nifty idea, especially since XL engines are basically all-upside, no-downside on fighters...save for C-bills cost, of course.

Wholeheartedly agree.

And if we can use fuel cell engines (= fully canon in 3053), then vehicle optimization suddenly becomes a THING.  Otherwise it's just tinkering with the same core non-energy weapons, or using fusion engines to make substandard battlemechs with less versatility, when you could just build battlemechs.

I've always thoroughly disliked the way the rules are so rigged against Vehicles. Especially their never-explained inability to use DHS.

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Takiro

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2021, 06:01:42 AM »

A couple of more votes in but no more discussion. Curious to hear what folks think. Keep those votes coming!
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Bradshaw

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2021, 07:51:23 AM »

Surprised vehicles came back to tie it
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2021, 08:42:54 AM »

Apart from saying that I am not a flying man, there isn't much to say.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2021, 08:43:29 AM by Ice Hellion »
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2021, 08:43:40 AM »

I can't lie and say both don't have a certain appeal. Personally, I am leaning towards aerospace simply because many Extra Light Engines for BattleMechs need to be repurposed after the Optimization effort which leaned away from their use in heavier machines. There is also the 'Dirtbag Militia' contingent lurking around though who have some intriguing ideas for BattleTech's most underappreciated forces.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2021, 11:36:03 AM »

Militia  8) 8) 8)

And if you focus on the engine problematic, you will have to upgrade us on the production numbers/lines/factories...
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2021, 09:40:14 AM »

Surprised vehicles came back to tie it

Yeah, wow! We are all tied up. I really thought it would be aerospace running away with it.
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Takiro

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2021, 06:14:11 AM »

Merry Christmas everyone, was thinking what an aerospace introduction might look like and came up with this.

As the InnerSphere optimized its BattleMech forces following the Truce of Tukayyid another important project took shape. Intended to build on one of the few advantages the Great Houses seemed to possess over the Clans this effort to modernize their aerospace fleets formally got underway after the signing of the Martial Accords. The new alliance named this endeavor after one of their greatest war heroes, Tyra Miraborg, whose sacrifice halted the initial invasion for an entire year. While this effort officially extended to the Federated Commonwealth, the Draconis Combine, ComStar, the Free Rasalhague Republic, the St. Ives Compact, the Outworlds Alliance, and the Rim Collection other powers took notice. The many factions fighting in the Free Worlds League and the remanants of the Capellan Confederation started their own programs. Even distant Periphery realms with limited lostech availability like the Taurian Concordat, Magistracy of Canopus, and Marian Hegemony have begun to explore their options.

Tyra Miraborg Flight Institute (TMFI)
Recently established by the Martial Alliance on Tukayyid this aerospace school focuses on anti-Clan fighter tactics. With instructors from every member state including the fighter oriented Outworlds Alliance this instiution should quickly become the premier aerospace combat school in the InnerSphere. The facility which is still under construction is also home to a handful of talented mercenaries who insure that every corner of known space is represented. 
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fabulousorcboy

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2021, 12:24:55 AM »

I think this really comes down to one practical consideration:

Are you going to allow wide-scale use of fuel cell engines for conventional vehicles?  If the answer is a solid "yes", then the massive weight and cost savings mean that you have far more room for optimization and variety with conventional vehicles.

If the answer is "no" or a "well, I dunno I'll think about it", then we should do aerospace fighters instead, throw XL engines into every airframe, and go to town.
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Takiro

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2021, 04:48:43 AM »

Can you make an in-universe pitch for such an endeavor fabulousorcboy like I did with the Miraborg Initiative? I can help with that if you like to try.

Right now, we have our reasons for such aerospace effort but as TRO 3058 implies the Successor States concentrated first on BattleMech modernization and last on Vehicles.

I could see the creation of the Martial Alliance and the outbreak of the 3rd Marik Civil War driving subfactions of the InnerSphere (Provinces of the Free Worlds League, Marches of the FedCom for example) to start such an endeavor.

What else do we need to tie it all together?
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fabulousorcboy

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2021, 10:16:50 AM »

In the mad rush to re-arm following the Tukayyid Cease-fire, the Great Houses focused primarily on Battlemechs, and on optimizing their existing Mech production lines in order to better match the Clan threat.  However, this meant that their militaries were neglecting complementary units such as aerospace, infantry, and vehicles.  Clearly, the modernization and optimization efforts needed to be spread more broadly, and 'Mech forces made up only a fraction (and in the case of planetary militias, a very minute fraction) of Inner Sphere forces.

Two competing factions quickly rose, with one camp emphasizing the need to upgrade the Inner Sphere's laughably outdated Aerospace units, in order to gain a qualitative advantage over Clan forces.  It had not gone un-noticed that Inner Sphere pilots had a significant experience advantage over their Clan counterparts, in most cases completely negating the superior technologies fielded by Clan aerospace units.

However, the competing camp argued that pouring resources into Aerospace units would have very limited benefits for their extreme cost -- aerospace fighters being notoriously expensive to manufacture and maintain, and even the best fighters being quite fragile and short-lived in direct combat.  Furthermore, aerospace units were just another small fraction of Great House regiments, in most cases an even smaller fraction than 'Mech units, and one that saw even less combat than 'Mech did, per unit.

Instead, the argument was to focus on the vast bulk of military forces used by every Great House and minor power. A series of crash programs have already gone into effect to enhance the capabilities of the Inner Sphere Standard Battle Armor, aka the "gorilla suit", but it was obvious that such programs would take years to come to fruition, and that few (probably none) of the Great Houses were interested in equipping more than a few elite infantry units with such battle armor.  Instead, it should be far simpler to take the existing vehicles, transports, fast scouts, VTOLs and the like already in service, and supply them with 'field upgrade' packages that could vastly improve their combat effectiveness, and their ability to meaningfully support both infantry and 'Mech forces.

As an added benefit, the most cost-effective (and tonnage-saving) upgrade would be the use of fuel cell engines, a mature technology already widely in use in civilian applications.  Although the Star League had chosen to use either fusion engines (for the weight savings and effectively infinite power and range), or Internal Combustion Engines (for cost savings, reliability, and substantially greater strategic range than fuel cells), Fuel Cell technology had continued to improve throughout the Succession Wars, and were not only highly reliable, but where they had once barely a third the strategic range of a comparably-rated ICE, modern Fuel Cells now had about two-thirds the strategic range, arguably making them superior to ICE power in combat applications.

What's more, the near ubiquity of modern Fuel Cells in civilian vehicles, having replaced ICE power in all but the most remote and periphery systems, meant that civilian vehicle manufacturers could be tasked with producing portions of the upgrades, and the less exacting specifications for vehicular armor meant that civilian heavy industries could be tasked with producing newer armor compounds.  In effect, this meant that existing armaments firms -- many already stretched thin -- would have to focus only on expanding weapons production in order to produce these upgrades.  From a practical perspective, this meant that Great Houses could upgrade six to eight times as many conventional vehicles with fuel cell engines and modern lostech weaponry, compared to upgrading their even their existing aerospace fleet with XL fusion engines and lostech armaments -- and positively impact a concomitantly larger portion of their industrial capacity, as opposed to just a handful of specialist aerospace manufacturing firms.
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Takiro

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2021, 06:07:17 PM »

Nicely done fabulousorcboy, now we just need a few more votes!  ;)
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Takiro

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2021, 03:56:56 PM »

Still looking for more votes folks on this issue. Comments are welcome!
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Takiro

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Re: Poll - Optimized What's Next
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2021, 05:24:28 PM »

Still looking for some tie breakers folks.

I was thinking a little more about the regions of the InnerSphere that would have Fuel Cell availability. Or those that would not. The Outback of the Federated Suns for example would be a Militia equipped with ICE Vehicles. What other poorer regions would stuck with that? Whose got Fusion power goodies like the Golden Five Worlds for example?
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