Knightmare Re: You make the call! « Reply #15 on: September 29, 2006, 10:15:35 AM »
This network is secure. (Well, sort of), at least it's secure enough to be talking about a preemptive first strike. And I'm not worried about SAFE, they couldn't decipher a message written in crayon let alone stop a Republic first strike. The ISF on the other hand...
Nope, still not worried. Call me Terran-centric.
Spill your beans.
Walegrin Re: You make the call! « Reply #16 on: September 30, 2006, 12:58:01 AM »
Option 1 - this assumes that atleast a portion of TRAS warships have functioning HPGs on them still. Pop insystem and engage enemy defenses, using this time to identify command ships or maybe draw thier fleet/whatever away from someplace. Then at appropriate time HPG the second element of your fleet to jump in close to the newly identified command elements or what have you.
Option 2 - can you mix nuclear muntions in minefield? Grin
Option C - Requires an expendable yet durable warship with an LF battery and the ability to either remotely pilot said vessel(potentially problematic due to distances) or a way to Caspar it. Basically the ship is gonna die. You pilot her close enough to another ship and then hit the big red JUMP button.
Yeah they are all a bit out there but *shrug* it is late and I need to sleep.
Knightmare Re: You make the call! « Reply #17 on: October 02, 2006, 03:28:45 PM »
Remotely piloted Dropships and automated Jumpships are not out of the question, but somewhat difficult.
The Nuclear Minefield is a stellar idea. And one I fully endorse. The HPG strike is also a good idea requiring very little coordination, but superior logistics and a bit of stealth. Cripes, I say we try all three. With the disposition of the Republic following the fall, we shouldn't limit ourselves. Cheesy
Takiro Re: You make the call! « Reply #18 on: October 02, 2006, 06:02:41 PM »
Minefields, HPGs, and Suicide Jumps.
Oh my!
Knightmare Re: You make the call! « Reply #19 on: October 02, 2006, 07:32:09 PM »
Wink
Walegrin Re: You make the call! « Reply #20 on: October 03, 2006, 12:07:23 AM »
Quote from: Knightmare on October 02, 2006, 03:28:45 PM
Remotely piloted Dropships and automated Jumpships are not out of the question, but somewhat difficult.
About what I think too actually. But the boys down in R&D were all hopped up on caffiene and sugar that night and insisted on putting it in the proposal.
Quote from: Knightmare on October 02, 2006, 03:28:45 PM
The Nuclear Minefield is a stellar idea. And one I fully endorse
It is perhaps the easiest to implement and most straighforward of my proposals. It is limited in that once placed the minefield is static. *thinks* Could you deploy a minefield in space with a velocity? In essence a minefield that would drift in a predetermined direction at a fixed velocity?
Quote from: Knightmare on October 02, 2006, 03:28:45 PM
The HPG strike is also a good idea requiring very little coordination, but superior logistics and a bit of stealth.
Honestly this is my favorite idea.
Knightmare Re: You make the call! « Reply #21 on: October 03, 2006, 09:41:24 AM »
Drifting Minefields?! Why not?
The physics is simple enough, although tedious and rather specific. (Could you image the problems if a mine was released even a hair's width of course? Bye bye minefield, hello dangerous space debris!)
Walegrin Re: You make the call! « Reply #22 on: October 03, 2006, 11:53:29 AM »
Quote from: Knightmare on October 03, 2006, 09:41:24 AM
Drifting Minefields?! Why not?
The physics is simple enough, although tedious and rather specific. (Could you image the problems if a mine was released even a hair's width of course? Bye bye minefield, hello dangerous space debris!)
True enough about the need for precise placement. I had assumed the mines would self-destruct after a preset time, or if they recieved the correct signal.
Knightmare Re: You make the call! « Reply #23 on: October 05, 2006, 10:59:41 AM »
Simple enough in their own right. The trick is in the deployment. Space is one of those fickle little places where the "little" (as in nano) details count. (At least over distances of hundreds of thousand, if not millions of miles/kph - you chose English or Metric)
So either come up with a fool proof, or close to fool proof method of mine deployment, or a way for mines to individually correct their speed and headings, while remaining cheap, and easy to mass produce, and you'll have yourself a sure fire winner.
A thought....using the lovely Mark VIII SDS frame, you know the little fighter-sized, swarming menance that almost killed Adam Steiner and his rag tag group of renegades from Somerset, the possibility exists to remove their weapons and fit them with nuclear devices that explode on proximity. The SDS attack programs and their tactics would have to be rewritten, but the idea is sound and the physics are already in place.
The problem with using the system is twofold. One, automated SDS systems are enormously expensive affairs, that are really only privy to a government the size of the original Star League (at least the building of new systems and the development of more advanced types) The Republic has nowhere near the original strength of the Hegemony (least yet), let alone the infrastructure or capital to produce new systems. Far too often we forget that any damage to an existing infrastructure simply requires the repair of the factory to get things moving again. We forget that factories need processed raw good, other factories to produce components, and so on...
Given the damage inflicted by the Coup, not only on the Hegemony, but the Inner Sphere as a whole, via the breakdown in trade, revenue commerce and the brain drain (through death, dismemberment, exodus, or will), not to mention the physical damage to the Hegemony worlds themselves. (Cities and basic utilities wrecked, or left unreliable. Physical damage to the three spheres of a world (Atmosphere, Geosphere, Hydrosphere) which in turn effect the world's Biosphere.) (For all you bio junkies) - Example; How long did it take to restore power to S. Florida after Wilma, or how long has it taken to repair the damage to New Orleans after Katrina?
The bureaucracy of repair and politics aside, these were (relatively) simple and localized disaster areas. There were no mitigating or special circumstances such as radiation, biological or chemical poisoning (though in Orleans there may be other types of poisoning) Nor was the rest of the country effected in such a way that its own underlying infrastructure for repair was damaged or incapable of functioning. Although these nature disasters were deplorable, they simply lack the magnitude of the damage released on the Hegemony worlds by the Coup. (The Tsunami of south east asia is probably a better example, but more difficult for our cable tv saturated western minds to absorb and compare. ) Wink
An excellent analogy for the situation of the Hegemony following the Coup would be to say that every individual country on our planet is representative of an independent Hegemony world. Now all of these worlds to various degrees are interconnected (in much the same way they are today) through culture, economy, infrastructure, etc...Now, hit the whole world, every city, every port, every piece of habitable land with a Hurricane Katrina. What would happen?
Well, in places like Amsterdam, London, and perhaps a few others the damage would be less severe and they would probably be able to bounce back a little quicker than others (Ever take a look at the levy's imployed by the Dutch?! Wow...makes the Corp of Army Engineers look like they play with Lincoln Logs) While other places, such as Southeast Asia, parts of the United States and others would have their infrastructures completely devastated. Then there are the after shocks of the damage. In places like the Netherlands, the city of Amsterdam may survive in better condition then say New Orleans, but what about food production and other basic land-based resources? London would quickly starve to death if lower England suffered a Hurricane-force storm that also hit its primary grain producing suppliers, technological advancement be damned. And although New Orleans would be devastated by our fictional storm, the city might still be able to call upon grain producers in the heartland. Southeast Asia may be pummeled back into the stone age, and its people may very well live in abject poverty for the next two generations, but they may also be able to feed themselves better than a Hurricane wracked Netherlands or England. This picture is now starting to flesh itself out a little more...transport systems are damaged or ruined, technologically advanced worlds/cities-countries (by our example) may survive but be incapable of feeding themselves. Agricultural areas that can feed themselves are incapable of advancing technologically. Couple this with other fun "circumstances", the storm overloads a few Nuclear Power Plants (WMDs on Hegemony worlds) or Chemical Plants. The Center for Disease Control in Georgia is wrecked and deadly bio-toxins are released into the atmosphere or spread through the storm-pounded civilian population. (Biological attacks on Hegemony Worlds) How does this translate into recovery when obviously every constituent part of the whole is mangled in some fashion?
The truth is, it doesn't. This type of scenario does not allow for real or actual recovery. (At least recovery as we would want it, i.e. before the storm or Coup) Significant change/chaos like this can never be truly repaired, and often takes generations to even regain a semi-balance of normalcy (Biospheres can also only heal themselves so fast, even with our help). Since our world analogy is one completely stricken, I would ask again how it could be repaired? The answer is as simple as it is funny:
Outside Help.
This is where our world analogy and post-Coup Hegemony take their separate ways. Our analogy has no outside source for help, nothing in our world would be unafflicted by the storm or its damage, and unless we're visited by aliens, we're up the "creek" as they say. For the Hegemony, the stricken nation and its worlds were afforded the luxury of the SLDF. (Though how much use would an army be to restoring our analogy in the long term?) Short term could be like any military-sponsored disaster relief; Food, shelter, medical, and so on. We only need to look to Iraq for a real example of the short comings of a military in rebuilding and restoring. (Ignore the insurgency and fighting for a moment, but look at what an Army is capable and incapable of doing) Even in Iraq the rebuilding is being accomplished (or rather attempted) by private contractors, i.e. entities with the technological infrastructure and know-how to replicate and reproduce a specific system either damaged or destroyed. Why would the Star League hand control of SLCOM to Blake? Because the SLDF is incompetent? No. Here is a private entity with the know-how and (once he's given the tools by the SLDF) technological infrastructure to repair the damage.
In truth, at this point I'm not really sure where this little rant is headed, but I'll say this. SDS systems and other technologically advanced systems of the Star League, including BattleMech manufacture and repair are at the very heart of an integrated and functional multi-world infrastructure, or in the case of the SDS an Inner Sphere integrated infrastructure (Think tax monies). The moment there is even the slightest damage, it begins to suffer. In the case of the Republic I'm not sure its worlds would ever truly recover (much like in canon BattleTech) and that systems like the Caspars could ever be replicated again.
Walegrin Re: You make the call! « Reply #24 on: October 05, 2006, 11:52:39 AM »
Valid point, all of them.
*rethinks options*
Shwagpo Re: You make the call! « Reply #25 on: October 13, 2006, 01:35:40 PM »
Well, I think I've got something for your mobile nukemines.
Gyrojets. They use them to cheaply rotate, move, home in LRMs, why not mines? Deploy the field with a master and a buncha slave circuites, and the computer on the master will autonomously keep them in formation. Would require programming, but should be simple/cheap enough. You could even add targeting software to the Master, and have it hurl gyrojet nuke mines at warships for the fun of it.
Takiro Re: You make the call! « Reply #26 on: October 13, 2006, 04:38:22 PM »
Welcome to the boards Shwagpo! Interesting idea. I think I came up with something similar in a home campaign. Called them Jump Point Mines. Location is the key however. What effect would it have on the mine if a jump field was created within its proximity?
Shwagpo Re: You make the call! « Reply #27 on: October 16, 2006, 09:54:23 AM »
My theory on that is that the safety mechanisms that activate a nuke would keep it from blowing on the spot, but I am unsure if it would fry the circuitry or not...hmm...
Thank you for the welcome, by the way, it's good to be here, I just read FM: Terran Republic and am in the process of reading Project Phoenix, I must say they are well thought out, designed and put together. I've found a few grammatical errors, but nothing detracting from the books as a whole. Anyways, now that I am done praising you guys....
Back to the mines.
I would assume a jump field appearing on the mines would react the same as a jump field dropping suddenly on an SDS drone, not entirely sure how it would react, though. The gyrojets would be rather simple in nature,a nd the mines themselves would be expendable, with all Republic ships knowing their general locations. If they were deployed at the standard nadir and zenith points, it would be easy enough to keep that from happening by using distance, but protecting from pirate points would make life difficult as they'd have to be deployed somewhere near inhabited planets.
I should think that a jumpfield may or may not wipe them out, when a jumpfield encounters additional mass, does it misfire? When a jumpship tries to suicide jump, it obliterates bot hthe jumpship and the targets nearby, so would this be an effect?
Knightmare Re: You make the call! « Reply #28 on: October 17, 2006, 11:35:58 PM »
Quote from: Shwagpo on October 16, 2006, 09:54:23 AM
My theory on that is that the safety mechanisms that activate a nuke would keep it from blowing on the spot, but I am unsure if it would fry the circuitry or not...hmm...
Thank you for the welcome, by the way, it's good to be here, I just read FM: Terran Republic and am in the process of reading Project Phoenix, I must say they are well thought out, designed and put together. I've found a few grammatical errors, but nothing detracting from the books as a whole. Anyways, now that I am done praising you guys....
Back to the mines.
I would assume a jump field appearing on the mines would react the same as a jump field dropping suddenly on an SDS drone, not entirely sure how it would react, though. The gyrojets would be rather simple in nature,a nd the mines themselves would be expendable, with all Republic ships knowing their general locations. If they were deployed at the standard nadir and zenith points, it would be easy enough to keep that from happening by using distance, but protecting from pirate points would make life difficult as they'd have to be deployed somewhere near inhabited planets.
I should think that a jumpfield may or may not wipe them out, when a jumpfield encounters additional mass, does it misfire? When a jumpship tries to suicide jump, it obliterates bot hthe jumpship and the targets nearby, so would this be an effect?
Yup, yup and yup. The problem with using the SDS as a control model is the expense and complication in running the system. Mines, like most CBT equipment should be as uncomplicated/low-tech as possible in the interest of production, logistics, costs and so on. As for Jump Fields, the "mass-shadow" should cause a misfire in the jump sequence of most Jumpships, thereby preventing them from entering the system. Great if the space around a jump point was small. We're talking about space though, and even jump points are astronomically (pun intended) large. Larger than a single minefield? Depends. A few thousand mines properly spaced might do it, but doubtful. Then there are the secondary considerations. If you could produces mass shadows large enough to cloud a system's jump points what happens to benign commercial concerns? Are traders and other civilian concerns going to use dangerous and sometimes unstable pirate points? And what about enemy fleets? After they get caught by this sneaky little minefield (if they decide to override and jump anyway) once or twice do you think they'll continue to jump to the zenith or nadir points or use a pirate point? Continue the line of reasoning. How many fields would it take to mine every pirate point effectively? How would the points be kept clear, how would the fields shift with the moving of the points?
This is why static minefields in space are a poor option (a free form environment will do that). Using the SDS drones there is the chance of possibly having something useful, (even that's questionable) but in truth, only manned ships, with flexible locomotion stand any chance of repelling an enemy.
Takiro Re: You make the call! « Reply #29 on: October 17, 2006, 11:45:02 PM »
Wonder if you could build a Jump Intredictor? Basically part of a Zenith or Nadir Recharging Station could cutoff a system from outside contact.
Also do you guys remember the battle of Symra from the SLSB? Planetary natives equipped with Sleeper Missiles maybe something else as well. Any way really wrecked the incoming Terran fleet of transports.
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