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Whats my motivation?
« on: May 06, 2008, 07:51:48 PM »
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Hey guys just had a thought from watching the History Channel. I know we had envisioned this book as a Terran intelligence report on the activities of these groups after events unfold during the Succession War that demonstrate their power. At first I thought of this as a pure fact finding mission only but then the History Channel reminded me of Operation Underworld during the 2nd World War. Essentially after the destruction of a troop ship in the port of New York the government turned to the mob to help it win the war. Could the Terran Republic be trying to do the same at this point? A devils alliance of sorts. What do you think?
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 08:12:32 PM »
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Any political entity dealing with what it terms criminal (or shadow) elements must give the criminals a certain amount of recognition and power.  If the Terran Republic is willing to do that for certain groups, then I really don't see any reason why not, especially if it furthers the cause.

Be careful if and when fighting proxy wars using such groups and remember the lessons of Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq.  Although that might produce some very interesting outcomes Undecided.  The shadow elements could (and should!) come back to bite the Republic in the ass.
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 08:19:06 PM »
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For every one problem solved two more pop up in its place, such is life. Wink

Some of the groups like ComStar, Project Phoenix, and the Privateers are already linked with the Republic in some fashion or another. The Syndicate, the War Cabal, and the Seperatists are another matter.
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2008, 12:18:41 PM »
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I highly doubt that the Terrans would involve themselves with the Syndicate. However, there is some precedent (of sorts): during Theodore Kurita's tenure, he entered into a pact with various groups of the Yakuza to form the Ghost Regiments. If I remember right, there was an agreement that the Yakuza groups would contribute personnel, money, and material and the Combine government would contribute 'Mechs and other war vehicles and "look the other way". The Yakuza could continue their business dealings as usual as long as that business wasn't politically disruptive. The one time it did, this was in one of the novels, was when one of the Yakuza leaders tried to assassinate the Coordinator. In typical Kurita fashion, the offending parties were quietly and efficiently removed from the Coordinator's view. The korumaku (sp?) of the Yakuza offered a formal apology and the matter was resolved with all honor intact.

I could see a similar "arrangement" between criminal organizations and government happening in the LC (business is business - but very discreetly), and portions of the FWL outside of House Marik control. In the CC, I think this could also happen, but with much more direct government control. If this were to occur in the FS, it would surely be done away from the Prince's notice, probably on a more local level with a planetary noble.

Just my thoughts...
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2008, 12:24:52 PM »
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The Syndicate and the Terran Republic are actually as close you can get for my comparsion to the Mafia and the United States. Might be a neat twist that the chief crime boss is imprisoned in the Europa facility (the Star League's most infamous prison according to the Clan Sourcebook, Warriors of Kerensky blurb) and the Terrans turn to him or her for help. Intelligence most likely. Security, information, possibly sabotage.
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2008, 12:38:46 PM »
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I'll take that under advisement... Wink
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2008, 01:14:34 PM »
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If the chief crime boss is held in prison, you might have a situation like we have nowadays in the U.S., where s/he is running the scene on the "street" from their prison cell, increasing their value to the Terrans manyfold.  Of course, they would have their own agenda...

Takiro, I didn't reply to your earlier post because I was thinking about it (smoke rolls from ears).  I personally don't really consider Comstar, Project Phoenix, or Privateers as "shadow" organizations.  Comstar comes closest and will become so given enough time.  Project Phoenix seems to be just another government agency (maybe I haven't read that much into it).  Any privateers are "legal" under their patron's system of law through a Letter of Marque allowing them to pillage other nations ships, although they are criminals under the other nation's system of law.
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2008, 04:47:18 PM »
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I hear ya LostinSpace. I know what your saying and acknowledge your point but consider this. Project Phoenix as I tried to foreshadow in their book is gradually diminishing in power. Ashes to ashes as it were. By the time of this book it should become clear to everyone that they have evolved from an agency of the Star League into something else entirely just as ComStar has (and did in canon history) albeit in a different way. Privateers are also in that gray area and evolving over time. Todays Privateer maybe tommorrows merc or pirate. Can they legitimize themselves as mercenaries have with the Guild or will their ways see them forced into a different direction. Remember from history (if I remember correctly Grin ) the Spanish didn't appreciate English privateers. Perhaps the Successor States have something against these Terran sponsored pirates even though they now use them as well. None the less they too will evolve as you will see.
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2008, 06:11:12 PM »
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Don't get me wrong, I'm just saying...  I'm not privy to your inside info.  Smiley

As far as Privateers go, historically they were never liked by other governments, who treated them like pirates.  The Letter of Marque was really just a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card when the privateer was stopped by their patron government.  Look the other way.  Later in the era (the Age of Piracy, that is) they would eventually be betrayed by their patrons.

When the CBTSD Privateer makes a transition to Merc or Pirate proper, either by leaving the life or attacking their patron's assets respectively (other reasons may apply as well), other groups will view them based on past performance.  Suppose you have a Terran privateer who historically attacked only DC ships.  That privateer, when making the transition to a Mercenary, would probably be well liked by the NTR, viewed neutrally by the LC and FC, and hated by the DC.  Contract availability would suffer accordingly.

If I'm rambling, tell me to shut up. Cheesy
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2008, 06:40:44 PM »
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Not at all. Keep rambling on. Fanbook 4 is a total Fan project everybody is free to comment and add to it as they wish.

I'm not saying Privateers will go extinct but they are on thinner ice then mercs. Their industry is sort of struggling for respectability in 2795 and might be at its height. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Who knows but stuff happens.
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2008, 12:56:59 AM »
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I gotz a license to ill?  Cheesy

The reason for a Merc's higher respectability is due to their working for cash, whereas a Privateer is a "legal pirate" in the eyes of their patron.  No matter how much you do to hide it, that Letter of Marque will be revealed (unless it's a neat plot twist) and someone will figure out who you work for.  Once that happens, you're worse off than the normal armed forces of your patron for the simple fact that you're a pirate.

I personally think that, given enough brave space-farers, the privateer "industry" would be thriving during the Succession Wars.  If you go off the historical model, privateers were never paid but were legitimate in the eyes of their patron, adding a force multiplier composed of armed merchantmen and small warships (warships are extremely unlikely for privateers in CBT, just talking history).  This is extremely advantageous for the NTR, noit sure for the other realms.

In fact, a small privateer group might consist of a Merchant dropship, a fighter carrier, and some sort of light assault dropship.  You could use the Kingfisher I proposed in the AT2 section (or any of the other fan-supplied combat dropships) for the assault and a Titan (or other mothballed fighter carrier) to round out the "fleet".  The idea is to attack shipping and damage supply lines, not war fleets.
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2008, 11:54:58 AM »
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Another reason mercs might takeoff and privateers might not is their very nature as you point out in your second paragraph. Spacefarers as you see in canon history don't do well. While one of the differences you will see in BTSD is some of the space element will survive the Succession War in great numbers attrition will still have a devastating effect on privateers, I would think, then mercs. Haven't really thought that far ahead to be honest but should be interesting when we get there. Wink
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2008, 03:36:32 AM »
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I think we have a small problem with your idea: some Underworld organisations might not want to be linked to the Terran Republic.

For example, I see no benefit for the War Cabal (on the contrary).
For Mafia, Yakusa and others like them, it might be slightly different: some of their businesses could provide more money if they were "official" in some part of the universe but others not.
Or maybe some parts of these organisations see a benefit in such a reconnaissance while others fight it, preferring to remain in the shadows.
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2008, 10:00:48 AM »
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This report or effort wouldn't think about legitimizing these guys or establishing official links just about how to use these organizations for the purpose of advancing Terra's war aims, the restoration of her borders. And don't forget the War Cabal is an international movement based on keeping military influence paramount and it probably includes Terrans.
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Re: Whats my motivation?
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2008, 12:00:15 PM »
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Quote from: Takiro on May 11, 2008, 10:00:48 AM

And don't forget the War Cabal is an international movement based on keeping military influence paramount and it probably includes Terrans.

I did not forget (I have some ideas already  Roll Eyes).

Quote from: Takiro on May 11, 2008, 10:00:48 AM

This report or effort wouldn't think about legitimizing these guys or establishing official links just about how to use these organizations for the purpose of advancing Terra's war aims, the restoration of her borders.

You mean it would be something like an official secret report by the Terran Republic saying that there are several shadow organisations out there and this is how we might use them?