OBT Forum

There are good points and bad points which all ideas have. I have to say I for one did not think of using arty as a tank's main weapon. Everyone that includes you my fellow Clan (Ice Hellion) time to think and give options.

Instead of full-bore artillery (no pun intended), perhaps try the Long  Tom Cannon or Sniper Cannon from Tac Ops?

These guns are not capable of off-board firing, but are pretty nifty, with good battlefield ranges and a LOT of special rules, including splash damage in adjacent hexes!

Might be just what you are looking for.

MA

I would guess that using such a weapon for close in combat(for which it was not designed) is rather difficult and therefore not  often successful. Therefore I would guess that successful close in attacks with such a weapon are not common, though if occasionally one succeeds the results are probably....impressive .

So long as you are not at point blank range (and have a line tank with respectable armor or a high rate of speed, pick one or the other), firing artillery directly at 17 hexes is actually rather effective against the Clans. It rips up Elementals and it quickly deals with the issue of fast moving OmniMechs, since you're firing at the hex and not the target (no target movement modifier). Direct fire artillery is rather nice in this regard in the modern era, and the same would be true in the earlier Clan Invasion timeline. There's one key here though. Direct fire artillery tanks are going to attract fire quickly. Do not let them skimp on armor, unless you're going with a fast moving hovercraft. And if you're going with a standard tracked/wheeled tank (I'd strongly recommend tracked), then load up on armor and skip most secondary weapons (have supporting tanks there for that). Then find some higher ground to overlook the field from 17 hexes (preferably with trees) and start unloading. Even the lighter artillery does respectable damage to light fast movers and elementals with direct fire.

...Pretty much what Dread said.  I would like to remind you of their range, however, which is measured in boards.  And that those are 17 hexes as defined by rules.

You can still rip things up out of direct-fire range, you just need to plan ahead, and that can be major in any game of 2 or more mapsheets or something from HeavymetalMap.  Just don't forget to look at other force multipliers besides artie; I haven't seen any mention of C3 (probably because it doesn't work with tube artie), but it would help your danger-close defenses enormously.

Lots of ammo, Case or Case II, Anti-laser rounds, smoke rounds - look at the entire list of equipment before designing.  When was the last time you took an amphibious artie tank?  Don't forget the surprise advantage you get from something like that might be worth mentioning one or two exist in the Variant section; enemy mechs can't walk on water, people don't take conventional displacement hulls willingly, and hovers can still set off floating mines and be shot with direct fire like anything else.

And don't forget trailers!  And don't forget trailers!  And, don't forget trailers!  For a single item, a trailer hitch can pull as much as DOUBLE your weapons tonnage at the cost of something hard to define out of combat; speed.  And since your main weapon has such range, it might be useful.  For that matter, it might be effective to create an artie trailer instead.

I use a huge number of trailers in my AU; they can be dangerous as hell if your opponent doesn't suspect them, especially if they're on the defensive and use the hidden unit rule.  If you try to calculate their battle value, it isn't much more than the value of the weapons themselves, which means he isn't looking at one, he's looking at nearly a dozen against a heavy mech.

Some very good points DM. Let me show you a first draft of what I'm calling the Farslayer. Before you start tearing her apart let me just say a few things. The main gun (Long Tom) is mounted in a turret because I'm trying to create a tank not a mobile artillery piece. Yes there are tanks without the turret and the tonnage saved could help the overall design but lets get passed that cause it is what I'm trying to do.

Farslayer class Heavy Assault Tank

Mass: 100 tons
Technology Base: InnerSphere Level 2
Crew: 7
Movement Type: Tracked

Equipment Mass
Internal Structure: 10
Engine: 300 Vlar Fusion 19
Cruising MP: 3
Flank MP: 5
Heat Sinks: 10 0
Control Equipment: 5
Turret: 3
Armor Factor: Ferro-Fibrous 296 16.5

Area Internal Structure Armor Value
Front 10 86
Right/Left Side 10 60/60
Rear 10 40
Turret 10 50

Weapons and Ammo: Location Mass
Long Tom Artillery Piece Turret 30
Ammo (Long Tom) 15 Body 3
Medium Laser Front 1
Medium Laser Right Side 1
Medium Laser Left Side 1
Small Laser Rear .5
CASE Body .5
Now your certainly right on attracting a lot of attention and such vehicles should be relatively fast or well armored. 3/5 isn't going to blow anyone away but it is good enough for its size IMO. You could improve it with a larger XL Engine but the availability of Fusion Engines on Vehicles is the reason why I'm sticking with them. So we go to armor which is 16.5 tons which wasn't good enough for me so I Ferro Fibroused away. Not too shabby but could be better I grant you. Also added was a CASE to increase crew survivability. The secondary energy weapons (3 Medium Lasers and a Small Laser) I choose to take advantage of the designs natural heat sinks and their tonnage friendly. Aside from using a Turreted Long Tom that is my other hang up - making those heat sinks from the engine do something. My concerns are do we have enough armor and enough ammo? Is 15 shots for the Long Tom enough or should we have more?

The smaller versions with Sniper and Thumper Artillery Pieces known as the Hellfire and Landsweeper will follow this big boy.

And just remember Red Pins we are using tech level 2 circa 3052 so certain stuff is unavailable. Although an amphibious artillery tank is very interesting......

Quote from: Hessian on August 07, 2011, 09:55:47 AM

Sounds a lot like the description of the Rommel Howitzer from XTRO:Steiner on Sarna.net to me(I do not have that XTRO though).

I would guess that using such a weapon for close in combat (for which it was not designed) is rather difficult and therefore not  often successful. Therefore I would guess that successful close in attacks with such a weapon are not common, though if occasionally one succeeds the results are probably....impressive .

Essentially correct on all accounts. You wouldn't want the enemy to get too close but these tanks can sit 1 or more boards away providing excellent fire support to their Mech buddies. So you are changing the tanks to role from close in supporter or direct participant to a not too distant support asset. But don't Tanks work like this today firing far off shots at their enemies? What I'm asking I guess is what do you think a tank should be able to do??

Hmmm... good question. First and foremost in my view it should be able to confront other tanks with a decent chance of winning such an engagement. Furthermore it should be something a BattleMech Pilot should be wary of ignoring. And something PBI avoids without some support weapons(Support Lasers or Support PPC's).
 

Ciao
Hessian

Interesting Idea. Artillery sure is a great way to deal with Clanners (and everyone else...) but making it the mainstay of the armor brigade of a RCT is, imo, a bad idea for two major reasons.

1) Artillery needs a lot of protection. Since artillery can be such a devastating weapon, it becomes a priority target, especially against the Clans, who see it as honorable and would probably react very fast and brutal to the large scale use of artillery. Therefore, a screening force is needed, that is able to deal with fast moving enemy forces, be it fast Mechs, VTOLs, Hovers or ASFs. When using FedCom RCT structures and the typical BT Universe mindset, the only reasonable way to form such a screening force is using (heavy) tanks.
If one would use Mechs for this, Mechs would become a supporting force to the conventional forces, since pretty much the whole Regiment would be needed to guard the much larger armor brigade.

2) Artillery is really messy. It's the least precise weapon in the inventory of any BT army and causes a lot of collateral damage. Unless the enemy is willing to only fight in open fields without anything valuable nearby, artillery can become pretty useless, if you want to take something like cities, factories or anything else in a semi-intact state.
Plus, if your own forces are engaged in "close" combat with the enemy, your armor becomes useless as well.

To conclude, artillery can be a very potent force, but it's one of those weapons, which are actually able to achieve overkill. Bring to much of it to a fight and it turns from a force multiplier into a liability.

Now, to answer what tanks should be able to do:
In my opinion, tanks should be able to perform all "lesser" tasks on the battlefield, to free up the Mechforces for the high profile (mobile) fighting. Stuff like: Providing artillery support, guarding the artillery, supporting Infantry forces in defending the ground taken by mechs, finishing off crippled enemies, etc.

Anyway, that's my 2cents worth...