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Author Topic: Update the Tiger  (Read 11957 times)

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Takiro

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Update the Tiger
« on: September 04, 2011, 10:31:57 AM »
Hey folks another thing I've been working at for Clarion Call is building a modern AFFC Tank Corps. One such project is updating the T-12 Tiger Medium Tank found on page 211 of Historical Reunification War as part of a new Kallon Tank Series. Fusion Engine is a must for this update but I'm having trouble. Likely trying to do too much. So I'd like to hear how you would accomplish this upgrade call it the T-15.  ;)
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Gabriel

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2011, 11:02:06 AM »
Can you send me the info on this and I will give it a shot. I will not be getting this book for 2 more weeks.
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Halvagor

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2011, 01:08:43 PM »
Here are two attempts to update the design, one scaling it back to a 50-ton Light Vehicle (with a 200-rated engine) and the other upsizing it to a 60-tonner (and the Manticore's Pitban 240 for simplified logistics). 


Code: [Select]
Type/Model:    Tiger T-14
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 2750
Config:        Tracked Vehicle
Rules:         Level 1, Standard design

Mass:          50 tons
Power Plant:   200 Nissan Fusion
Cruise Speed:  43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor Type:    Standard
Armament:     
  1 Autocannon/10
  1 SRM 6
  2 Machine Guns
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Tiger T-14
Mass:          50 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  25 pts Standard               0      5.00
Engine:        200 Fusion                    0      8.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      4.50
    Cruise MP:   4
     Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:     10 Single                    0       .00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      2.50
Crew: 4 Members                              0       .00
Turret Equipment:                            0      2.00
Armor Factor:  126 pts Standard              0      8.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     5         30
   Left / Right Sides:        5      24/24
   Rear:                      5         20
   Turret:                    5         28

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Autocannon/10          Turret   0   20     2     14.00
1 SRM 6                  Turret   0   15     2      4.00
1 Machine Gun            Turret   0  100     2      1.00
1 Machine Gun            Rear     0          1       .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                           0          7     50.00
Items & Tons Left:                           8       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        1,741,750 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    666 (old BV = 387)
Cost per BV:       2,615.24
Weapon Value:      325 / 325 (Ratio = .49 / .49)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 16;  MRDmg = 6;  LRDmg = 1
BattleForce2:      MP: 4T,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 5
                   Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GM;  Point Value: 7

Code: [Select]
Type/Model:    Tiger T-15
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 2750
Config:        Tracked Vehicle
Rules:         Level 1, Standard design

Mass:          60 tons
Power Plant:   240 Pitban Fusion
Cruise Speed:  43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor Type:    Standard
Armament:     
  1 Autocannon/20
  2 SRM 4s
  2 Machine Guns
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Tiger T-15
Mass:          60 tons

Equipment:                                 Items    Mass
Int. Struct.:  30 pts Standard               0      6.00
Engine:        240 Fusion                    0     11.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment:          0      6.00
    Cruise MP:   4
     Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:     10 Single                    0       .00
Cockpit & Controls:                          0      3.00
Crew: 4 Members                              0       .00
Turret Equipment:                            0      2.00
Armor Factor:  126 pts Standard              0      8.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Front:                     6         30
   Left / Right Sides:        6      24/24
   Rear:                      6         20
   Turret:                    6         28

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Items    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Autocannon/20          Turret   0   15     2     17.00
2 SRM 4s                 Turret   0   25     3      5.00
1 Machine Gun            Turret   0  100     2      1.00
1 Machine Gun            Rear     0          1       .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                           0          8     60.00
Items & Tons Left:                           9       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        2,604,000 C-Bills
Battle Value 2:    800 (old BV = 511)
Cost per BV:       3,255.0
Weapon Value:      412 / 412 (Ratio = .52 / .52)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 24;  MRDmg = 4;  LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 4T,  Armor/Structure: 0 / 5
                   Damage PB/M/L: 4/3/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: GH;  Point Value: 8

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"...but if evil men were not now and then slain it would not be a good world for weaponless dreamers."  From Kim, by Rudyard Kipling, 1901

Ice Hellion

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2011, 01:34:58 PM »
Change the picture as the Estevez looks cooler.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Gabriel

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2011, 01:43:09 PM »
Too True
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Fear is our most powerful weapon and a Heavy Regiment of Von Rohrs Battlemech's is a very close second.-attributed to Kozo Von Rohrs
Will of Iron,Nerves of Steel,Heart of Gold,Balls of Brass... No wonder I set off metal detectors.Death or Compliance now that's not to much to ask for,is it?

Takiro

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2011, 01:52:47 PM »
I have plans for the Estevez don't you worry.  ;)

Nice tries Halvagor but I'd like to keep the 55 ton weight. 60 is a no go cause I got update Rommel/Pattons to fill that niche.

Here is the original design.

Code: [Select]
Tiger Medium Tank

Tons: 55 tons

Equipment Mass
Internal Structure 5.5
Engine: 220 ICE 20
Cruise MP: 4
Flank MP: 6
Heat Sinks: 0 0
Control Equipment: 3
Lift Equipment: 0
Power Amplifier: 0
Turret: 1.5
Armor Factor: 96 6

Armor Value
Front 20
R/L Side 20/20
Rear 16
Turret 20

Weapons and Ammo Location Tonnage
AC/10 Turret 12
Ammo (AC) 20 Body 2
SRM 4 Turret 2
Ammo (SRM) 25 Body 1
Machine Gun Turret .5
Machine Gun Front .5
Machine Gun Rear .5
Ammo (MG) 100 Body .5
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Halvagor

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2011, 02:18:36 PM »
Niches are based on capabilities, not weight (though weight available is of course tied to what a machine can do).  But the Rommel/Patton are in the 65-ton range, in direct competition with such stalwarts as the Bulldog and Manticore.  Thus cutting weight to turn the Tiger into a powerful 50-tonner makes a lot more sense to me than retaining it as a too-light heavy vehicle in a field full of them.  And the 60 & 65 ton weight classes are so full of fusion-powered vehicles precisely because the 240 and 260-rated engines are as common as dirt (for fusion engines). 

But what era do you want these tanks set in?  I did those 50 & 60 tonners with Level 1 equipment, because you said only that these are for the AFFC, which could be 3035 with no upgraded equipment to speak of, or 3055 when a fair amount of cooler toys are around. 
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2011, 03:26:35 PM »
A lvl 2 Tiger but that could easily be downgraded to lvl 1
It has more speed with a bit more punch (PPC is equivalent to an AC/10 but the SRM-6 is more powerful) and a bit more protection (CASE and AMS).
I hesitated to give it a Guardian ECM but I decided to go for CASE (keep your trained crews alive), AMS (for the same reason) and a Small Pulse Laser (against infantry).

Name: Tiger   
Model: T-15   
      
Mass: 55 tons
Motive: Tracked   
      
Internal Structure: 5,5 tons
Engine type: Fusion
Engine: 275  15,5 tons
Cruise MP: 5   
Flank MP: 8   

Additional shielding: 8 tons
Control system: 3 tons
Crew: 4   
Turret: 1,5 tons
Heat Sinks: 12  2 tons
Armor Factor 96  6 tons
Front 20
R/L 20/20
Rear 16
Turret 20
      
PPC Turret 7 tons
SRM-6 Turret 3
Ammo SRM Body 1 ton
AMS Turret 0,5 ton
Ammo AMS Body 1 ton
Small Pulse Laser Turret 1 ton
CASE Body 0,5 ton
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2011, 10:26:03 PM »
That is a great job Ice! I was trying for a 5/8 but seemed to come up short however you seem to have done it.

Halvagor the time period is 3052.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2011, 02:17:43 PM »
I had to change the paradigm to allow it to move that fast.

As for the Small Pulse Laser as secondary weapon, I am not sure. Keep it? Replace it with 2 MGs, 1 ton of ammo and 1 t of armour or a TAG? Or drop it all for an ER PPC?

Although I like my last idea the most, it would be too costly in terms of defensive power (no AMS).
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2011, 07:11:38 PM »
I dropped the design into HMV yesterday Ice and it came back .5 ton less so armor was 5.5 tons which I ferro-fibroused. I like the PPC/SRM6 combination especially going 5/8 as a tracked vehicle. Good firepower and speed.

Secondary weaponry I''m not sure about though. I actually like the Small Pulse Laser but 2 MGs and a ton of ammo is tempting plus I like adding a ton of armor. The only reason I would not do it is because of the variant below. What I'd rather do is replace the AMS with a Guardian ECM or Beagle Active Probe.

The ER PPC works with the SRM-6 if you strip everything off for 3 extra heat sinks. Hell of a variant!
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Dread Moores

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2011, 10:55:01 PM »
Ice's design also makes the Tiger into a slightly heavier, upgraded version of the Myrmidon. That's pretty nice actually, as you could even fluff the the two designs as being a shared FedCom research project. Make the Tiger the Davion version, and the Myrmidon the Lyran version.
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Takiro

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2011, 11:11:40 PM »
Well one of the neat things I'll be doing with the Clarion Call story line is developing a whole new line of designs. So the slate is wiped clean with this alternate universe and everything after TRO3050 is going to be different with the possible exception of Star League designs appearing in TRO3058. Expect a whole new look for TRO3055. ;)

Specifically for the Tiger it will be the flagship tank product of an expanding Kallon Industries.  ;)
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Gabriel

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2011, 11:13:31 PM »
True A whole new direction is called for.
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Fear is our most powerful weapon and a Heavy Regiment of Von Rohrs Battlemech's is a very close second.-attributed to Kozo Von Rohrs
Will of Iron,Nerves of Steel,Heart of Gold,Balls of Brass... No wonder I set off metal detectors.Death or Compliance now that's not to much to ask for,is it?

Ice Hellion

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Re: Update the Tiger
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2011, 02:02:21 PM »
Quote from: Takiro on September 05, 2011, 07:11:38 PM
I dropped the design into HMV yesterday Ice and it came back .5 ton less so armor was 5.5 tons which I ferro-fibroused. I like the PPC/SRM6 combination especially going 5/8 as a tracked vehicle. Good firepower and speed.

Secondary weaponry I''m not sure about though. I actually like the Small Pulse Laser but 2 MGs and a ton of ammo is tempting plus I like adding a ton of armor. The only reason I would not do it is because of the variant below. What I'd rather do is replace the AMS with a Guardian ECM or Beagle Active Probe.

The ER PPC works with the SRM-6 if you strip everything off for 3 extra heat sinks. Hell of a variant!

I did it with the good old pen and paper but I don't see where I made a mistake...
Strange.

As for secondary weapons, I thought about it later on but it is up to you.

Quote from: Dread Moores on September 05, 2011, 10:55:01 PM
Ice's design also makes the Tiger into a slightly heavier, upgraded version of the Myrmidon.

And I didn't see it  :'(
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5
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