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Author Topic: Quicksilver Dropships  (Read 37485 times)

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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2018, 12:52:06 PM »
An unintended benefit to this idea is battlefield surprise when the Clan does not announce their forces againt the inner sphere which i think theyve finally learned is strategically stupendoulsy stupid

Not a clan idea but would innersphere think about a ramming vessel was researching ship types and roles and got me wondering
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2018, 01:09:25 PM »
Bonus points if you call the ramship the Holdo and somehow survive the anger :p
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2018, 01:21:25 PM »
And the Clans seem to have kind of stopped going "hey we're gonna hit you with XYZ pretty early on, save outside the really strict adherents of Zell and most of those got themselves and their commands killed off.  Don't forget that the Invading clans have just had their Tourmans put through the wringer at Tukkayid and even the ones who won their Trials are in bad shape so there's chance for folks with a bit of grey matter between their ears to get into a position.

And yeah would make sense, if the IS sees a pair of Incompetent Fool class dropships coming towards them, they might not know what they are going to be facing. Sure they have a ROUGH idea maybe from intel reports, but nothing solid.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2018, 03:20:48 PM »
So only capital missiles are allowed on dropships i see was hoping lasers could as well, but looking at the ranges naval lasers can reach they cant even reach a mile how the hell do they do either orbital bombardment or shoot down enemy warships from Castle Brians i mean a naval ac or gauss their shells you would think would burn up on entry into atmosphere.

I really thought naval hexes were much larger than they were.
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2018, 05:53:25 PM »
What are you coming up with Bradshaw? The Charger class Dropship??  :o ::)

Nice Space Above and Beyond pic too!

Quote from: Bradshaw on September 03, 2018, 12:21:27 PM
Which reminds me Tak once questioned if the Star League could institute another trial of refusal over invasion and if it was allowed canon shows us it does by both nova cat and diamond shark doing trials to be reserve clans in invasion. Just got done reading Revival Wars so made me remember that discussion

I believe that particular refusal (Nova Cat/Diamond Shark) one covered their positioning as Clans 6 and 7 should they be needed. Revival only called for four Invading Clans and one Reserve. If you lost like the Cats and Sharks did originally they would have just been the same as Burrock or Ice Hellion who never won a Trial during the Revival Testing.
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2018, 06:31:33 PM »
Your right but its multiple trials to refute something so it would make sense in that regard that its possible from different sources just not the aame like if wolf tried to refute it again
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2018, 10:22:23 PM »
Might makes right my friend.

So I will try to come up with a Organization Doctrine List for the Clans to see if we can arrive at a common denominator.

And two we need to list Dropship facilities possessed by each Clan to see who is capable of building what. 
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2018, 03:29:25 AM »
Whilst 'listening' to an update at work today I came up with this, its a small dropship capable of carrying a Nova (5 Mechs, 1 Star of Elementals) protection and firepower are superior to the Broadswoard, performance is identical (same SI and thrust) but with slightly bigger fuel tanks and slightly more cargo, all this for a mere 200 ton increase.


Code: [Select]
Kharash Dropship
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-E

Weight: 2100 tons
BV: 7,359
Cost: 315,165,600 C-bills

Movement: 5/8
Heat Sinks: 80 [160]
Fuel Points: 0/6000 (150.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 9
Armor: 660 (Ferro-Aluminum)
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose          200 
Left Side     165 
Right Side    165 
Aft           130 

Weapons                             Loc  Heat 
-----------------------------------------------
Laser Bay                           NOS   24   
ER Large Laser                                 
ER Large Laser                                 

PPC Bay                             NOS   30   
ER PPC                                         
ER PPC                                         

Pulse Laser Bay                     AFT   30   
Large Pulse Laser                             
Large Pulse Laser                             
Large Pulse Laser                           
   
LRM Bay                              LS   18   
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo   36   
     
LRM Bay                              RS   18   
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo   36
       
Pulse Laser Bay                      LS   12   
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Pulse Laser Bay                      RS   12
 
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             

Pulse Laser Bay                     NOS   16   
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
SRM Bay                             AFT    8 
 
Streak SRM 6                                   
Streak SRM 6                                   
Streak SRM 6 Ammo                    60   
     
AMS Bay                              LS    1   
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]      72
       
AMS Bay                             NOS    1   
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]      72 
     
AMS Bay                              RS    1   
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]      72   
     
AMS Bay                             AFT    1   
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]      72       


Equipment       Loc 
---------------------
Artemis IV FCS   LS 
Artemis IV FCS   LS 
Artemis IV FCS   LS 
Artemis IV FCS   RS 
Artemis IV FCS   RS 
Artemis IV FCS   RS 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Mech (2 doors) - 2 units
Mech (2 doors) - 3 units
Battle Armor Bay (2 doors) - 5 Points
Cargo Space (1 door) - 80 tons

Crew                 
----------------------
Officers             0
Enlisted/Non-rated   5
Gunners              5
Bay Personnel       40


Again its quick and dirty but a pair of these are far more efficient than having to bring two Broadswords along and a Sassanid  for the same role.


And re Organisational doctrine, with the Clan's i'd give up because that'll make you go bald trying to sort that mess.  For any dropships we design what would be required is a kind of 'base standard' where the ilKhan goes  "This is a standard deployment Cluster consisting of X Y Z.  Of course this changes depending on your own doctrinal choices my Khans but this is the base layout of one."
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 03:35:20 AM by marauder648 »
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2018, 06:22:52 AM »
A assault Nova carrier is an interesting idea certainly and eliminating or replacing a two ship Broadsword/Sassanid need is not a bad idea. Perhaps it is better to go smaller (say 5, 10, or 15) than larger (30 or 45) with carried numbers for these design concepts.

Also I'd like to stay away from specific design proposals so we can come up with a few Quicksilver challenges for more potential fun.

Quote from: marauder648 on September 04, 2018, 03:29:25 AM
And re Organisational doctrine, with the Clan's i'd give up because that'll make you go bald trying to sort that mess.  For any dropships we design what would be required is a kind of 'base standard' where the ilKhan goes  "This is a standard deployment Cluster consisting of X Y Z.  Of course this changes depending on your own doctrinal choices my Khans but this is the base layout of one."

Dude I hear ya but it may help generate different dropship concepts based on unique unit organization models.

Plus I need to research Dropship industry for who can realistically make what although working with the Free Guilds can help your cause.
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2018, 07:02:39 AM »
Hmmm idea.

Instead of "THIS IS THE HULL but you can fiddle with the troop layout"

its

"Okay, so a 'Trinary' dropship is to weigh between X and Y tonnage, the Cluster scale dropship is to weigh between R and M tonnage' give us your designs.

And again was bored at lunch and came up with the Olympic class (Olympic was the codename for the Invasion of Japan)

And she's a stretched Overlord, 2600 tons heavier, same performance, thicker protection, roughly the same cargo, a more uniform weapons mix to allow her to defend herself more properly and room for a considerable number of forces.

as always, thoughts are most welcome.


Code: [Select]
Olympic Class Dropship
Base Tech Level: Standard (Clan)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3145+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-E

Weight: 14200 tons
BV: 14,308
Cost: 732,264,960 C-bills

Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 190 [380]
Fuel Points: 0/12900 (430.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 20
Armor: 1293 (Ferro-Aluminum)
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose          387 
Left Side     324 
Right Side    324 
Aft           258 

Weapons                             Loc  Heat 
-----------------------------------------------
Laser Bay (R)                        LS   24   
ER Large Laser (R)                             
ER Large Laser (R)                             
Laser Bay                           AFT   24
 
ER Large Laser                                 
ER Large Laser                                 

Laser Bay (R)                        RS   24   
ER Large Laser (R)                             
ER Large Laser (R)                   
         
PPC Bay                              LS   30   
ER PPC                                         
ER PPC                                       
 
PPC Bay                              RS   30   
ER PPC                                         
ER PPC                                     
   
PPC Bay                             NOS   30   
ER PPC                                         
ER PPC                                   
     
LRM Bay                              LS   24   
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo   72   
   
LRM Bay                              RS   24   
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20                                         
LRM 20 (Clan) Artemis-capable Ammo   72
       
AC Bay                              NOS   31   
Gauss Rifle                                   
Gauss Rifle                                   
Gauss Rifle                                   
Ultra AC/20                                   
Ultra AC/20                                   
Ultra AC/20                                   
Ultra AC/20                                   
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan]              96       
Ultra AC/20 Ammo                    120       
AC Bay                              AFT    3   

Gauss Rifle                                   
Gauss Rifle                                   
Gauss Rifle                                   
Gauss Rifle Ammo [Clan]              96
       
Pulse Laser Bay                      LS   12   
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             

Pulse Laser Bay                     NOS   12   
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                           
 
Pulse Laser Bay                      RS   12   
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                           
 
Pulse Laser Bay (R)                  LS   12   
Medium Pulse Laser (R)                         
Medium Pulse Laser (R)                         
Medium Pulse Laser (R)                         
Pulse Laser Bay                     AFT   12   
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Medium Pulse Laser                             
Pulse Laser Bay (R)                  RS   12
 
Medium Pulse Laser (R)                         
Medium Pulse Laser (R)                         
Medium Pulse Laser (R)                       
 
LBX AC Bay (R)                       LS   18   
LB 20-X AC (R)                                 
LB 20-X AC (R)                                 
LB 20-X AC (R)                                 
LB 20-X Cluster Ammo                 60   
     
LBX AC Bay (R)                       RS   18   
LB 20-X AC (R)                                 
LB 20-X AC (R)                                 
LB 20-X AC (R)                                 
LB 20-X Cluster Ammo                 60 
     
AMS Bay                              LS    2   
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]     192
       
AMS Bay                             NOS    2   
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]     192 
     
AMS Bay                              RS    2   
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]     192
       
AMS Bay (R)                          LS    2   
Anti-Missile System (R)                       
Anti-Missile System (R)                       
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]     192
       
AMS Bay                             AFT    2   
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System                           
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]     192
       
AMS Bay (R)                          RS    2   
Anti-Missile System (R)                       
Anti-Missile System (R)                       
Anti-Missile System Ammo [Clan]     192       


Equipment       Loc 
---------------------
Artemis IV FCS   LS 
Artemis IV FCS   LS 
Artemis IV FCS   LS 
Artemis IV FCS   LS 
Artemis IV FCS   RS 
Artemis IV FCS   RS 
Artemis IV FCS   RS 
Artemis IV FCS   RS 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Mech (2 doors) - 15 units
Mech (2 doors) - 15 units
Mech (2 doors) - 15 units
Battle Armor Bay (1 door) - 15 Points
Aerospace Fighter (1 door) - 10 units (2 recovery open)
Cargo Space (1 door) - 1,200 tons


Crew                   
-----------------------
Officers              0
Enlisted/Non-rated    9
Gunners              10
Bay Personnel       200
10 x Life boats
10 x Escape Pods




 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 09:59:58 AM by marauder648 »
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2018, 11:29:43 AM »
Go Big or Go Home

Base one off the Mammoth frame the largest planetary landing dropship and be done.

But seriously we'd have to look at BV calculations does two dropships make sense in the regards to Clan resource allowances? or would they be better with one. I'm not really into the whole BV usage so don't know if this is what we'd want to look at to measure that.


Had an attachment as I made a Mammoth based Troop transport but stopped as I will wait for any future challenges.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 04:06:44 PM by Bradshaw »
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Takiro

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2018, 04:07:51 PM »
There is such a thing as putting to many eggs in one basket. Ideally your trying to mate dropships with a jumpship in my opinion that can carry everything.

Did you guys see what I did with the Condor IIC? (page 1 this thread) A mech bay is 150 tons and so is a heavy vehicle bay paired with a light vehicle bay. Works out cause vehicles are 2 to 1 (Mechs) in Clan formations. I kind of modularized the space based on the calculation. We can either go with modular bays or same craft two different variants (Condor, Vulture, etc.) I was thinking
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Bradshaw

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2018, 05:38:27 PM »
It really depends on more than transport. Jumpships have a use imo and its definitely not on the frontlines of an invasion where a singular fighter with a lucky shot can take out a multibillion dollar investment

When trying to make a beachhead do you spread your forces out or do you concentrate on a singular point. I think it depends on philosophical differences in the Clans. Just like differing opinions in mech layouts some will choose less capacity for quicker deployment ability or singular juggernauts that can weather combined fire. Or in between.
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marauder648

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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2018, 02:07:58 AM »
In my head the Clans would be okay with putting eggs in one basket, because the Clans in their Trial based combat very rarely targetted hostile DropShips because Safcon was very often used.  The Clans whole kind of battle is Blitzkrieg based, so concentrating force is its big thing.  In my mind this makes larger dropships to carry all the forces as needed. 
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Re: Quicksilver Dropships
« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2018, 03:13:47 AM »
So a dropper that can carry 45-50 Mechs and up to two trinaries of Battle Armor would work for most Clans. Fighters would be carried on dedicated carrier-dropships like the Carrier or Titan. The outliers would include the Hell's Horses and Blood Spirits who still use vehicles in their frontline units.
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