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Backfire SC-Bomber EDITED
« on: January 29, 2010, 07:24:16 PM » Quote Modify Remove
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The Backfire bomber project was originally started under the cover of the Phoenix program. Publicly it was referred to as a fast courier ship intended for express delivery of small priority cargos to compensate somewhat for the destruction to interstellar communications caused by the Amaris coup. The civilian front was needed to hide the project from the disapproving gaze of General Kerenski. In 2784, as war drew ever closer, the Backfire received a massive armor upgrade, a pair of AMS and with the addition of external ordonance hardpoints the Backfire dropped any pretense of being anything but a military vessel.
The Backfire is completely unarmed except for the anti-missile systems, it's main defense is it's huge engines which take up some 65% of the ship's total mass and solid armor protection. Able to pull 7½ g only the swiftest light fighters have a chance of catching a clean Backfire. The real purpose of the massive drives of the Backfire however is to allow it to carry a huge bomb load. The Backfire rarely loads up with a full payload unless the enemy air defenses have been suppressed but even half loaded the Backfire can take 20 freefall bombs or 4 standoff missiles to the battlefield, as much as the heaviest aerospace fighters, and the Backfire can do it at speeds no heavy fighter could manage with such a bomb load. If the enemy have no fighter cover the Backfire can deliver a crushing 40 bomb carpet to the target or a massive 8 missile artillery barrage although such a massive load reduces the thrust of the Backfire to 1½ g crawl. While theoretically capable of interplanetary missions the Backfire's Spartan crew accommodations effectively limits it to short missions.
The Backfire has become a common support unit with the frontline TRAS and TRN formations and has served in many battles all over the Republic. Serving mainly as the airborne artillery of the Terran Republic's offensive ground formations the lack of defensive weaponry have not been as great a problem as originally feared since offensive operations generally have good fighter cover. The TRN also uses the Backfire with great success as a long ranged strike craft and fleet defender - even the most fanatical gunboat commander is likely to reconsider his attack run when faced with a Backfire squadron carrying 30 Alamo nuclear missiles. For strike missions the Backfire usually carries a lot less payload just like it's army colleagues.
Code:
BACKFIRE-CLASS BOMBER
Type: Military Aerodyne
Tech: Star League
Introduced: 2784
Mass: 200 tons
Dimensions
Length: 25.50 meters
Width: 18.50 meters
Fuel: 8.00 tons
Tons/Burn-day: 1.84
Safe Thrust: 10
Max Thrust: 15
Heatsinks: 6
Structural Integrity:15
Armor: standard
Nose: 140 (14)
R/L Wings: 80 (
Aft: 100 (10)
Weapons:
Arc (Heat) Type Short Medium Long Xtreme
Nose(2 Heat)
2 AMS 1(6) - - -
Crew: Pilot, Commander, Bombadier
Ammunition:
24 rounds of AMS ammunition (2 tons)
Note:
40 hardpoints for external ordonance.
Equipped with 19 tons of ferro-aluminium armor.
Perhaps the AMS should be switched for extra fuel, 8 ton is a bit small.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 12:32:10 AM by CJvR » Report to moderator 213.112.124.208
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Re: Backfire SC-Bomber
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 08:29:57 PM » Quote
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Not bad CJvR, needs a little bit of a redesign given my specs for a small craft bomber but I think this will complete this line. I spoke with Fireangel over on CBT who I consider the originator of this whole concept and he agreed to add his bombers to TRO2800. I will post them later on. Busy transferring files to the new forum right now.
The one thing which I required for the creation of Small Craft Bombers was the purchase of External Stores Hardpoints. I did a lot of research and asked TPTB on Small Craft Bombers to make this determination. While the rules create a gray area in which we can create these vessels it doesn’t grant them free hard points like multi role aerospace fighters have. So CJvR you'll have to find 8 tons (.2 ton per hardpoint) for 40 External Stores Hardpoints on the Backfire.
Oh and just to show you my original concept for this design;
Quote
COMET (BOMBER)
Type: Military Aerodyne
Use: Strategic Bomber
Tech: InnerSphere
Introduced: 2785
Mass: 200 tons
Battle Value: 726
Dimensions
Length: 30 meters
Width: 25 meters
Fuel: 10 tons (800)
Safe Thrust: 10
Maximum Thrust: 15
Heat Sinks: 10
Structural Integrity: 15
Armor: (Ferro-Aluminum)
Nose: 118
Sides: 86
Aft: 57
Crew: 3
Weapons and Ammo Location Tonnage Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV
None
Note: All crew assigned as Steerage-class (5 tons per crewman). 4 tons allotted for 20 External Stores Hardpoints.
Overview
Stefan Amaris redirected the tremendous scientific resources of the Terran Hegemony almost exclusively to weapon design following his infamous Winter Coup. One such undertaking called for the creation of a small craft that would serve as a dedicated strategic bomber. This fanciful project to turn a support vessel into an aerospace combatant typified most endeavors "authorized" by the Usurper. While the goal was clearly optimistic at best captive engineers knew the price of failure.
- Name for the Amaris design would be the Apocalypse
- Kerensky dead set against further development of the bomber program
- He saw its potential for collateral damage and wished to abandon it
- Desperate Terran engineers in search of every advantage they could get realized the possible benefits and much to the General's dismay continued development resulting in the Comet
- Full load of 40 bombs would decrease its thrust by 8 (2/3)
Finally I have to write an introduction for small craft that of course includes the development of small craft bombers. Prior to their introduction these missions were handled by the multi-role aerospace fighter and conventional aircraft. Plus I can note the use of orbital bombardment which say the end of the bomber as a weapon until now. Of course these dedicated small craft bombers have movement and bomb load advantages over the aerofighter.
Sorry that is incomplete but I wanted to let you know everything I got so far. More later!
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Re: Backfire SC-Bomber EDITED
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 11:47:55 PM » Quote
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The edit looks good CJvR. Here is Fireangel's small craft bombers which will be appearing in TRO2800.
During the initial stages of the First Succession War it became clear that Aerospace Fighters alone were not sufficient to deliver the volume of bombs needed to crack some of the most heavily fortified enemy positions and still maintain acceptable dogfighting capacity. Taking a cue from Earth history, all five Houses realized that dedicated bombers escorted by dedicated escort fighters were a reasonable solution to the problem. Nationalizing many lesser small craft factories in each realm allowed these new bombers to be produced without reducing fighter construction capacity further than was being reduced by the war.
Of these bombers, the largest were the Draconis Yuquiyú, the Lyran Thunaer and the Capellan Zhong-Liquan, all of which share some common features, including the capability of delivering a staggering 40 tons of ordnance and still maintain the capability of taking off under its own power. Once the warload has been delivered, these designs are capable of jaw-dropping acceleration in order to escape the battlezone.
Unfortunately, the Succession Wars were not kind to these bombers; practically incapable of defending themselves when en route to the target, too often they were left unprotected while their escorts tangled with the defenders or were sent unescorted into death zones, still, They (and their smaller "cousins", ranging in size from the 100-ton Davion Pikeman through to the 180-ton Marik B-78 Armageddon) were produced well into the Second Succession War, when the last factory (for the 140-ton Kurita Kagami) was bombed by the LCAF's 549th Skye Wing's remaining two Thunaers.
The Yuquiyú was the first one to be fielded and the most produced of the SW-era bombers. As with most similar units it uses practically no advanced materials in order to ease construction. Machine guns cover its entire aft area to protect from enemy fighters who got too close, but as these proved to be too unreliable, later versions (notably the N version produced on Pesht) removed the guns and the gunner's station equipment in favour of armour and extra cargo space.
Quote
Yuquiyú Strategic Bomber
200-ton Inner Sphere Aerodyne Small Craft
Engine: 130 tons
Safe Thrust: 10
Maximum Thrust: 15
Fuel: 1,760 pt. 22 tons
Heat Sinks: 2 (single) --
Structural Integrity: 10 10 tons
Control: 1.5 tons
Armour: 96 pt. Standard 6 tons
Nose: 24 pt.
RW: 24 pt.
LW: 24 pt.
Aft: 24 pt.
Crew Quarters: 4 steerage 20 tons
Cargo: 0.5 tons
Weapons:
MG Aft 0.5 tons
MG RW(R) 0.5 tons
MG LW(R) 0.5 tons
Ammo: MG: 100 shots 0.5 tons
External Pylons (40) 8.0 tons
Total: 200 tons
Notes: 40 external ordnance pylons
Before the Thunaer was produced, the mainstay of the LCAF's bomber forces was the 170-ton Ragnarok, but its weak engine was never capable of fulfilling the full potential of the airframe. Captured Yuquiyús provided the design for a new engine that resulted in the Thunaer. Experience with the Ragnaroks resulted in a better armoured design with no weapons. The Thunaer was successful enough that the LCAF converted several Leopard CV's to carry four each. A force of four such CV task forces was attached to the LCS Invincible near the end of the First SW to destroy the Marik-held Dardellon VI SLDF naval yards; escorted by fighters from no fewer than than two brand new Vengance CVs, 16 Thunaers delivered over 100 nuclear missiles into the facilities, destroying them along with 8 FWLM warships. Never again would such force be used again; only three Thunaers returned from the mission, which also cost the Commonwealth two warships of their own, including the flagship Archon's Might.
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Thunaer Strategic Bomber
200-ton Inner Sphere Aerodyne Small Craft
Engine: 130 tons
Safe Thrust: 10
Maximum Thrust: 15
Fuel: 1,680 pt. 21 tons
Heat Sinks: 2 (single) --
Structural Integrity: 10 10 tons
Control: 1.5 tons
Armour: 192 pt. Standard 12 tons
Nose: 50 pt.
RW: 46 pt.
LW: 46 pt.
Aft: 50 pt.
Crew Quarters: 3 steerage 15 tons
Cargo: 2.5 tons
Weapons:
External Pylons (40) 8.0 tons
Total: 200 tons
Notes: 40 external ordnance pylons
Developed independently of the Yuquiyú, the Zhong-Liquan shares many features with its Kuritan "cousin". Slightly better armoured, its biggest difference is not in its actual weapons, but in their arrangement, which places two of the lasers in forward-firing positions on the wings. The Zhong-Liquan has, in at least three occasions, been credited with dogfighting kills on light fighters when the fighters underestimated the maneuverability of the bombers. Never too numerous, few Zhong-Liquans survived the first war, but these were placed in mothballs rather than keeping them in service without replacement parts or scrapping them altogether. A cache of two was discovered in 3036 and were carefully studied by Capellan authorities. With the Chancellor's permission, a limited run of 6 bombers were built new as testbeds of new technology. Though two crashed during test flights (traced to substandard fuel-line components), the project was considered successful and the remaining four were soon joined by one of the two originals restored with new-built components. With the coming of the Clans, the five bombers were sent to the Draconis combine, where they were used for strategic demolition work in places unreachable by combat engineers. Two were shot down by Smoke Jaguar fighters, but their performance was considered satisfactory. After the war, the three surviving bombers returned to the Confederation, to have their unit returned to reserve status. Soon, one of the bombers was cannibalized for parts in order to keep the other two functional.
Prior to the Jihad, the unit was stricken from the CCAF roster, but after the start of the Jihad, when the CCAF sought to reactivate the unit, it was discovered that the entire unit had disappeared; bombers, personnel, parts and their Buccaneer transport had all disappeared from where they were supposed to be. Unconfirmed intelligence reports place the unit on the WoB side on various Lyran worlds, including Tharkad.
Quote
Zhong-Liquan Strategic Bomber
200-ton Inner Sphere Aerodyne Small Craft
Engine: 130 tons
Safe Thrust: 10
Maximum Thrust: 15
Fuel: 1,360 pt. 17 tons
Heat Sinks: 3 (single) 1 tons
Structural Integrity: 10 10 tons
Control: 1.5 tons
Armour: 160 pt. Standard 10 tons
Nose: 40 pt.
RW: 40 pt.
LW: 40 pt.
Aft: 40 pt.
Crew Quarters: 4 steerage 20 tons
Cargo: 1.0 tons
Weapons:
Small Laser Aft 0.5 tons
Small Laser RW 0.5 tons
Small Laser LW 0.5 tons
External Pylons (40) 8.0 tons
Total: 200 tons
Notes: 40 external ordnance pylons
Let me just add... 40 loaded hardpoints and still maintain 2/3 thrust. That is 4 Alamo nuclear missiles, 8 Arrow IV missiles, 20 light Air-to-Air missiles or a whole dreckload of 10-point bombs or RL-10's.
Regarding RL-10's... a full volley of 40 of them will deliver 240 points of standard damage to a target (24 capital). Shocked
Quote
Ragnarock Strategic Bomber (Steiner)
170-ton Inner Sphere Aerodyne Small Craft
Tons
Thrust: 7/11 77.5
Control: 2
SI: 10 8.5
Fuel: 1,280 pt. 16
Cargo: 5
Crew Quarters: (4 steerage) 20
Armour: 184 pt. Standard 11.5
Nose 50
RW/LW 42
Aft 50
Heat Sinks: Single (9) 8
Weapons:
Large Laser (aft) 5
Small Laser (nose) 0.5
External Pylons (30) 6.0 tons
160
Version-specific equipment:
* A-C: Adds 7 SHS 7
Adds 2 ML (1 e/a wing) 2
Adds 1 SL (nose) 0.5
Adds 0.5 tons of cargo 0.5
170
* D: As C, but places the ML’s in the aft wings
* F: Adds 5 SHS 5
Adds 5 SL 2.5
(2 e/a wing aft, 1 nose)
Adds 2.5 tons of cargo 0.5
170
*G: Does not add additional weapons
Adds 64 pt. Armour 4
Nose 70
RW/LW 56
Aft 66
Adds 1 Jump Inf. Bay 6
170
*H: As C, with the following exceptions:
Adds configurable Inf. Bays:
2 Jump Bays 12
OR
2 Foot Bays 10
2 160 pt. fuel 2
Reduces Std. Cargo by –2
170
Notes:
* Can carry 30 tons of ordnance at 1/2, 25 at 2/3
* Oldest design; predates the fall of the League by 15 years
* Phased out of strategic role and converted to infantry
carriers with the introduction of the Thunaer bombers.
* Engine could not fully exploit the bomb-carrying potential
of the airframe.
Quote
B-78 Armaggeddon Strategic Bomber (Marik)
180-ton Inner Sphere Aerodyne Small Craft
Tons
Thrust: 9/14 105.5
Control: 1.5
SI: 10 9
Fuel: 1,440 pt. 18
Cargo: 1.3
Crew Quarters: (4 steerage) 20
Armour: 224 pt. Standard 14
Nose 60
RW/LW 54
Aft 56
Heat Sinks: Single (1) -
Weapons:
6 MG’s 3
(2 aft, 2 RWR, 2 LWR)
Ammo (MG): 300 1.5
External Pylons (36) 7.2 tons
180
Notes:
* Can carry 35 tons of ordnance at 2/3 (36 at 1/2)
* B-78B replaces MG’s for 4 SRM-2’s sharing a ton
of ammo (1 nose, 1 aft, 1 RWR, 1 LWR).
Quote
Kagami Strategic Bomber (Kurita)
140-ton Inner Sphere Aerodyne Small Craft
Tons
Thrust: 8/12 73
Control: 1.5
SI: 10 7
Fuel: 1,120 pt. 14
Cargo: 1.4
Crew Quarters: (4 steerage) 20
Armour: 160 pt. Standard 10
Nose 40
RW/LW 40
Aft 40
Heat Sinks: Single (5) 4
Weapons:
1 MG w/ 100 shots (aft) 1
5 Small Lasers 2.5
(1 nose, 1 RW, 1 RWR, 1 LW, 1 LWR)
External Pylons (28) 5.6 tons
140
Notes:
* Can carry 28 tons of ordnance at 2/3
* Slow to build, DCMS preferred the larger Yuquiyú.
* Last Strategic Bomber manufactured in the Inner Sphere.
Quote
PK-106N Pikeman Strategic Bomber (Davion)
100-ton Inner Sphere Aerodyne Small Craft
Tons
Thrust: 7/11 45.5
Control: 1
SI: 10 5
Fuel: 1,200 pt. 15
Cargo: 1
Crew Quarters: (4 steerage) 20
Armour: 96 pt. Standard 6
Nose 30
RW/LW 22
Aft 22
Heat Sinks: Single (1) -
Weapons:
4 MG’s (2 fore, 2 aft) 2
Ammo (MG): 100 0.5
External Pylons (20) 4.0 tons
100
Notes:
* Can carry 20 tons of ordnance at 3/5
* Developed and first deployed during the Amaris War,
based on a failed fighter design.
* Made famous in the 2845 holovid drama “Phalanx of Goldâ€
* Standard doctrine has the Pikeman always carrying at
least two air-to-air missiles.
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Re: Backfire SC-Bomber EDITED
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2010, 12:11:37 AM » Quote Modify Remove
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Intresting.
A bit fuel heavy and thin skinned perhaps and adding a gunner for the very limited armaments is probably not a good investment.
Also shouldn't the SI at least be equal to the Maximum thrust rather than the minimum thrust?
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Re: Backfire SC-Bomber EDITED
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2010, 12:46:36 AM » Quote
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Couple of corrections likely still have to be made to these designs admittedly but they are keepers overall. Curious about the Backfire - why the AMS? I liked the front/rear armor distribution on the Backfire cause of the charge/retreat operations of these things.
I'd like to make a bomber that could lift off with a full load and escape the atmosphere which I'm told is a thrust rating of 3/5. Call it an optimized bomber design but what would be the ideal weight and thrust needed for such a small craft?
Currently we have eight designs (see below) and I really don't want any more bomber designs for TRO2800. Future projects will reveal why I'm taking this stance so try to be patient. Back to the forum transfer!
Backfire Strategic Bomber (Terran) 200-ton Aerodyne Small Craft
Yuquiyú Strategic Bomber (Kurita) 200-ton Aerodyne Small Craft
Thunaer Strategic Bomber (Steiner) 200-ton Aerodyne Small Craft
Zhong-Liquan Strategic Bomber (Liao) 200-ton Aerodyne Small Craft
Ragnarock Strategic Bomber (Steiner) 170-ton Aerodyne Small Craft
B-78 Armaggeddon Strategic Bomber (Marik) 180-ton Aerodyne Small Craft
Kagami Strategic Bomber (Kurita) 140-ton Aerodyne Small Craft
PK-106N Pikeman Strategic Bomber (Davion) 100-ton Aerodyne Small Craft
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Re: Backfire SC-Bomber EDITED
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 01:03:37 AM » Quote Modify Remove
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Quote from: Takiro on January 30, 2010, 12:46:36 AM
Curious about the Backfire - why the AMS? I liked the front/rear armor distribution on the Backfire cause of the charge/retreat operations of these things.
To take the edge off LRM fire and Cap missile fire. The Alamo is a medium range weapon so reducing the bombers exposure to the main long range AAS weaponry improves the chance to survive long enough to launch.
Quote from: Takiro on January 30, 2010, 12:46:36 AM
I'd like to make a bomber that could lift off with a full load and escape the atmosphere which I'm told is a thrust rating of 3/5. Call it an optimized bomber design but what would be the ideal weight and thrust needed for such a small craft?
It costs a bit to much to push the thrust rating to 11/17. It costs 13 tons of engine and 2 in SI to get up there.
Code:
BLACKJACK-CLASS BOMBER
Type: Military Aerodyne
Tech: Star League
Introduced: 2796
Mass: 200 tons
Dimensions
Length: 27.50 meters
Width: 18.00 meters
Fuel: 8.00 tons
Tons/Burn-day: 1.84
Safe Thrust: 11
Max Thrust: 17
Heatsinks: 7
Structural Integrity:17
Armor: f-a
Nose: 93 (9)
R/L Wings: 25 (3)
Aft: 50 (5)
Weapons:
None.
Crew: Pilot, Commander, Bombadier
Note:
40 hardpoints for external ordonance.
Equipped with 7 tons of ferro-aluminium armor.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 01:05:26 AM by CJvR » Report to moderator 213.112.124.208
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Re: Backfire SC-Bomber EDITED
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2010, 01:20:53 AM » Quote
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Would it be better to go lower weight design that could carry its max bomb load. Say a 180 ton design with 10/15 speed? I haven't tried it yet.
Also these bombers wouldn't be limited to ground based strikes but could provide a nasty surprise to naval opponents. Hence my concern for lifting off and transiting the atmosphere with a full load.
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Re: Backfire SC-Bomber EDITED
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2010, 12:43:08 PM » Quote Modify Remove
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Quote from: Takiro on January 30, 2010, 01:20:53 AM
Would it be better to go lower weight design that could carry its max bomb load. Say a 180 ton design with 10/15 speed? I haven't tried it yet.
Also these bombers wouldn't be limited to ground based strikes but could provide a nasty surprise to naval opponents. Hence my concern for lifting off and transiting the atmosphere with a full load.
You don't need to fill it up all the way so a 200 ton 10/15 is quite capable of orbital strikes, just with a little less payload and adjusting the load is fairly standard operating procedure in bomber ops. A smaller ship with fewer HPs would be able to reach orbit fully loaded but that wouldn't be any real advantage over the heavier craft since they would both carry 3 Alamos into orbit. In addition the 200 ton design is a bit more effective since, all other things equal, the crew quarters would have a greater squeeze effect on a smaller ship. Also the extra HPs makes the design more flexible than what a smaller craft can manage. 200 ton 10/15 is probably the optimal design.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 12:52:39 PM by CJvR » Report to moderator 213.112.126.151
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Re: Backfire SC-Bomber EDITED
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2010, 07:58:46 PM » Quote
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Is it linked to this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backfire_bomber? Report to moderator Logged
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Re: Backfire SC-Bomber EDITED
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2010, 10:16:08 AM » Quote Modify Remove
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Quote from: Ice Hellion on February 01, 2010, 07:58:46 PM
Is it linked to this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backfire_bomber?Partly, always did like that name and the mission profile fits as well.
