OBT Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

AU Developers - Please PM Knightmare or MechRat if you need board or permission changes

Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony  (Read 20387 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Knightmare

  • Terran Supremacist
  • Network Gnome
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,459
  • Taking out the Sphere's trash since 3026
    • Our BattleTech
Re: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2011, 07:59:49 PM »

The high tech version of WWI?...

Hmm...that's an interesting thought. I'm certain the 150+ years of peace didn't help, or rather helped foster that ideology.

If we play the generation game, at the start of the First Succession War, the oldest and smallest percentage of adults will have been born into the second or third generation of Star League babies. So on the outs we're looking at a super late second and aging third generation born under the Golden Age "Peace" in service or positions of power prior to the First Succession War.

Here's how it works (again, just a generalization on generations and population percentages.) You figure at the height of the Golden Age, the average life expectancy was roughly 121 years circa 2700...so the oldest individuals alive at the beginning of the First Succession War were born at the start of the Star League "Pax." However, we know that average life expectancy doesn't equal active either. Also keep in mind that the further you are from Terra and the Hegemony, the lower that number drops. (According to JHS:Terra, the life expectancy of a Terran - even in 3078 is super high) So for the bulk of the Succession States let's be generous and say the average life expectancy of a citizen of a Member-State to hover around what the SLSB states as fact: 121 years.

So by 2800 we're talking about an absurd number of middle aged (by Star League standards) people (in positions of power throughout the Member-States) who haven't a bloody clue what real warfare is all about. On the extreme, maybe the last generation to experience real conflict would be their long dead great-grandfather.

You figure the youngest soldier in the Reunification War was born around 2575 - I rounded down for simplicity. So a twenty year old soldier saw about three years of combat (an 18 year old, 5 years.) Say this soldier lives to be about 90-100. When he dies his kids will have heard the stories and seen the effects, but their kids - born towards the start of the Star League's Golden Century won't won't know a thing about it. Then their kids are likely to be born around the the turn of the century (say 2700.) This is the generation likely to be easing their way into being in "charge" towards the end of the Star League, with their children either fighting as officers at the start of the First Succession War and their children likely filling the rank and file (so the fifth generation.)

Now this is some really broad math. We're talking about a generation every 40 years rather than 20 and the "extreme" norm. In reality from 2600 to 2760 there could be something like eight generations. However, the point is not how many generations born, but which ones would be within one or two generations of actual conflict.

That being said, with at least two full length life terms between the Reunification War and the start of the First Succession War it's safe to say the people in charge hadn't the foggiest what they were in for. Even the War of Davion Succession was barely a taste. It could certainly be considered a self contained incident - definitely not enough to dissuade a House Lord from believing war would be anything but idealized. 

It's not an excuse for stupidity, (as history shows) but for some reason continues to happen. For some reason, when people "forget" about the horrors of war they seem to be in a hurry to relearn all about it... 
Logged
Quote from: Dragon Cat
WORD (of Blake) is good for two things. 1. Leaving inappropriate notes on other people's work. 2. Adding fake words (of Blake) to the dictionary.

Ice Hellion

  • Protector of the Taurian Concordat
  • KU Player
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,473
  • Beware of the all-seeing eye: Ice Hellion
Re: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2011, 03:16:48 PM »

Interesting thoughts.
You might add that military theories and doctrines are difficult/long to change (just look at the fire vs shock discussions that raged for centuries and the difficulties to adapt the doctrines prior to WWI to take into account the Boer War).
Logged


"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Blacknova

  • Puppet Master
  • Global Moderator
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,351
  • Rugby Players - Inspiration for the BattleMech
    • The Kapteyn Universe
Re: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2011, 03:26:18 PM »

That is not just plausible, it is historicaly accurate.  Humans are idiots.
Logged
Dedicated to committing viciously gratuitous bastardy of the first order.

The Kapteyn Universe - http://www.ourbattletech.com/kapteyn

Follow the KU on twitter: Matt Alexander
@BlackNova01

You know there is something wrong with the FWL, when Word's spell check changes Impavido to Impetigo and Zechetinu to Secretion.

Rainbow 6

  • KU Player
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,990
Re: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2011, 03:28:40 PM »

Yes, yes we are.
Logged

Ice Hellion

  • Protector of the Taurian Concordat
  • KU Player
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,473
  • Beware of the all-seeing eye: Ice Hellion
Re: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2011, 03:31:07 PM »

That is not just plausible, it is historicaly accurate.  Humans are idiots.

Human groups are idiots while individuals can be clever.
Logged


"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Ice Hellion

  • Protector of the Taurian Concordat
  • KU Player
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,473
  • Beware of the all-seeing eye: Ice Hellion
Re: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2011, 03:32:45 PM »

Interesting thoughts.
You might add that military theories and doctrines are difficult/long to change (just look at the fire vs shock discussions that raged for centuries and the difficulties to adapt the doctrines prior to WWI to take into account the Boer War).

If you want to see more about that, read On Infantry
Logged


"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Knightmare

  • Terran Supremacist
  • Network Gnome
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,459
  • Taking out the Sphere's trash since 3026
    • Our BattleTech
Re: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2011, 03:54:28 PM »

I think the accurate phrase is: "A person is smart, people are dumb, scared and prone to idiotic mistakes."

Logged
Quote from: Dragon Cat
WORD (of Blake) is good for two things. 1. Leaving inappropriate notes on other people's work. 2. Adding fake words (of Blake) to the dictionary.

Ice Hellion

  • Protector of the Taurian Concordat
  • KU Player
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,473
  • Beware of the all-seeing eye: Ice Hellion
Re: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2011, 03:25:51 PM »

I think the accurate phrase is: "A person is smart, people are dumb, scared and prone to idiotic mistakes."

 :)
Logged


"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Trace Coburn

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 155
  • Родина и свобода!
Re: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2012, 10:00:32 PM »

  Okay, this is a really old topic, but I just finished data-mining ER:2750's Museum Technica section.  Only major manufacturers are explicitly called out in the text, but there's a lot you can read between the lines.  If TPTBs are trying to make us realise the heights the Star League enjoyed before their precipitous plunge during the 'Mad Max' phase of the Succession Wars, they're doing a pretty good job, IMO.  8)  Hell, they've done such a good job that it's actually put a couple of holes in some of my plans for the wider aspects of the Virginia War, but doing that hasty patchwork is actually kind'a fun in itself....  ;D
 

ERLL: “The ER large laser was widely produced across known space during the Star League. One of the major producers was Lushann”
> FWL (Diverse Optics), Outworlds (Lushann Industrials Ltd.)

Pulse Lasers: “The complex nature of the interlinking capacitors and control circuitry limited production to corporations with the most advanced laser production facilities. Beyond Terra, these manufacturers included:”
> FS (Precision Weaponry/Tancredi IV), FWL (Diverse Optics), Outworlds (Lushann Industrials Ltd.)

Gauss Rifle: “The zero-gravity production techniques for making the superconducting coils limited the corporations and realms that could easily produce the Gauss rifle, but ground based manufacture of the weapon system was feasible. A dozen manufacturers across the Terran system, as well as Yankee Weapons systems of New Earth, produced the Gauss rifle for the SLDF. Across the rest of the Inner Sphere, Norse-Storm Technologies of Loxley, and Johnson Industries of New Syrtis were other major manufacturers.”
> FS (Johnson Industries/New Syrtis), LC (Norse-Storm Technologies/Loxley)

LB-10X: “By 2680, the LB 10-X was being built in every Star League member state. The major non-Terran producers ... produced limited numbers of these weapons for export even to the Periphery states”
> FS (Mydron Corporation), FWL (Oriente Weapon Works)

UAC/5: “The perceived failure of this weapon system made security around its design lax, and it quickly spread across the Inner Sphere and Periphery. Major non-Terran producers of the UAC/5 included General Motors of Kathil and Arc-Royal, Armstrong Weapons of Sterope and Dunianshire, and Imperator Automatic Weapons of Atreus.”
> FS (General Motors/Kathil), FWL (Imperator Automatic Weapons/Atreus), LC (General Motors/Arc-Royal), MoC (Armstrong Weapons/Dunianshire), TC (Armstrong Weapons/Sterope)

AMS: “... the ease at which the old Phalanx idea was modified allowed the rest of the major powers of the Inner Sphere to quickly develop their own models. By 2750, the major producers of the AMS system included Blankenburg Technologies of Terra, Cal-Boeing in the Federated Suns, and Earthwerks, Inc of the Capellan Confederation.”
> CC (EarthWerks Inc.), FS (Cal-Boeing)

SSRM: “The Holly Streak system was one of the most widespread brands in use ... the technology spread to the Federated Suns, Free Worlds League, and the Magistracy of Canopus. The second most popular brand of Streak launchers came from Hovertec, who produced these weapons for the Capellan Confederation, Free Worlds League, and the Lyran Commonwealth’s Federation of Skye.”
> CC (Hovertec), FS (Holly), FWL (Holly, Hovertec), LC (Hovertec/Skye), MoC (Holly)

BAP: “The primary manufacturer, Clear Sight, Inc. of Luna, was able to keep up with all purchases from the HAF, while minor manufacturers across the Inner Sphere — such as Imstar Aerospace and Diplan Electronics — fulfilled the demands from the Great Houses.”

CASE: “The complex network of cells and the construction of the diamond-fiber material for CASE limited the production of the equipment outside of the Terran Hegemony.”
 (Personally, I call BULLSHIT on this one, but that's just me)

DHS: “The ease with which the double heat sink can be built ensured that even the poorest Periphery world had the ability to produce it for its armed forces so long as the endo-steel frame for the heat sink was available.”

ES: “... as late as 2750, the majority of all endo-steel production remained in Terra’s asteroid belt, and was used almost exclusively by the SLDF. Minor manufacturers in all of the Great Houses nevertheless struggled to keep up with demand, including Buckboard Ltd. of the Free Worlds League, and Tunguska Industries of the Draconis Combine.”
> DC (Tunguska Industries), FWL (Buckboard Ltd.)

FFA: “As of 2750, few manufacturers outside of the Terran Hegemony had the complex and highly advanced production facilities needed to integrate diamond fiber into steel without the diamond dissolving into less effective carbides. The primary producers were Krupp Armament Works in the Terra system, Corean Enterprises of New Avalon (which produced the StarGuard brand ferro-fibrous under a Hegemony license), and Hellespont ’Mech Works of the Capellan Confederation.”
> CC (Hellespont Mech Works), FS (Corean Enterprises/New Avalon)

GECM: “The Guardian ECM Suite found its way out of the Terran Hegemony before the end of the Star League. What frustrated the Great Houses and the Periphery nations was that the highly adaptable software needed to operate the Guardian required constant patching and custom recoding for each model of BattleMech it was installed in. The massive computer complexes available to the Terran Hegemony made this a trivial issue, but for the rest of the Inner Sphere it was time consuming.”

TAG: “TAG, while complex, was fairly straightforward to produce and install on both vehicles and BattleMechs, though it was rarely seen due to the scarcity of TAG-enabled munitions.”

XLFE: “Covert operations from all the Great Houses were able to obtain XL engine technology by the end of the twenty-sixth century.”
Logged

Developer-in-Chief, Renegade Tech 2.0

Dread Moores

  • Overste
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 740
Re: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2012, 11:32:47 AM »

I think the double heat sink thing was a beautiful touch. "Everybody can make these things, but pretty much only the Hegemony has the necessary endo steel." If I had my druthers, I'd retcon XL engines to require endo-steel somewhere in the process, like DHS require the endo-steel frame. That one little change does a lot to explain why the tech didn't spread as much as one might think.
Logged
The first one to use the term Dork Age loses.

Dragon Cat

  • KU Player
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,252
  • Not Dead Until I Say So
Re: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2012, 02:52:18 PM »

After reading the AMS entry I question how it was lost at all
Logged
My stuff, and my AU timeline follow link and enjoy

http://www.ourbattletech.com/forum/dragon-cat-collection/

The original CBT thread
Dragon Cat on CBT


Really, as long as there is an unbroken line of people calling themselves "Clan Nova Cat," it doesn't really matter to me if they're still using Iron Wombs or not. They may be dead as a faction, but as a people they still exist. It's not uncommon in the real world, after all.

fitzgerald

  • Kavallerist
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 104
Re: 1SW - who got what from the Hegemony
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2012, 03:31:52 AM »

In the matter of CASE I'll bet it was the SLDF Royal Command doing it's level best to botch, nix, and outright slaughter anybody else that even thought about acquiring it.

It's such a nifty little add on that drastically increases the battle field survival of any ammo dependant mech equiped with it. 

Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up