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lrose

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Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« on: February 08, 2010, 08:23:17 AM »
General Notes
Warex Liao began developing combined arms tactics for the CC FM:CC p. 10
CCAF is composed of Line, Home Guard and Warrior House regiments FM:CC p. 27
Home Guard - 3 battalions per regiment, 1 of Armor, 2 Infantry FM:CC p. 27
Prior to the SWs the CC fielded 129 Front Line mech regiments FM:CC p.32
Warror Houses not formed until 2nd SW FM:CC p.57
Death Commandos not formed until 2988 FM:CC p. 67
Kamakura’s Hussars formed 2925 FM:CC p. 79
During the reign of Salicia Liao 2542-2551 CCAF grew to 53 mech regiments HLSB p. 39
Reserve formations were created in 2832 (may just be an organizational thing, rather then new units) HLSB p. 48
CCAF had an all time high of 129 mech regiments in 2799. HLSB p. 51
Home Guard Regiments- 3 battalions, 1 of tanks, 2 of infantry, used mainly for defense, 124 regiments in 3025.  HLSB p. 69
Every CC world has a militia regiment of 2 battalions of Infantry HLSB p. 72

Capellan Hussars
Hussars trace their history back to the founding of the CC- 1 regiment from each commonality.  1 regiment destroyed in failed coup during age of war- never rebuilt.  a second Hussars regiment destroyed fighting FS in 2rd SW.  FM:CC p.51
Capellan Hussars formed as on e of Franco Liao’s last acts as Chancellor (probably 2394-2395) composed of the best regiment from each of the 5 Commonalities HLSB p. 30
Red Lancers- originally Second Hexare Lancers, renamed after helping to end coup against Jasmine Liao.  FM:CC p. 53
Red Lancers originally the 2nd Hexare Lancers from St Ives formed in 2355, renamed Red Lancers after 2452. HLSB p. 77
Prefectorate Guard ties to Sian formed? FM:CC p. 54
Prefectorate Guard - Raised in 2532 to replace Merik’s Grenadiers.  HLSB p. 78
Holdfast Guard - traces to Tikonov Union Guards formed under Colonel Harrison Blandford, Blandford’s Grenadiers was the first unit to deploy to combat. (Note:Holdfast Guards is a new post 3050 name for this regiment it during the SW it was known as Blandford’s Grenadiers) FM:CC p. 55
Blandford’s Grenadiers formed from 4th & 7th Tikonov Union Guards Regiment in 2368.HLSB p. 78
Merik’s Grenadiers Regiment, revolted in 2451, destroyed by 2nd Hexare Lancers (Red Lancers) HLSB p. 34

Confederation Reserve Cavalry
Capellan Reserve Cavalry fought on Lee in 2363 badlt massacured in the fighting. HLSB p. 25
1st CRC operational in 3025 HLSB p. 105
2nd CRC formed ? original homeworld - capella FM:CC p. 70
2nd CRC operational in 3025 HLSB p. 105
3rd CRC formed ? FM:CC p.71
3rd CRC operational in 3025 HLSB p. 105
4th CRC operational in 3025 HLSB p. 105
5th CRC formed ? FM:CC p. 72
5th CRC operational in 3025 HLSB p. 105
6th CRC formed ? FM:CC p. 73
6th CRC disbanded in 2916 HLSB p. 85

Sian Reserves
Kamakura’s Hussars fought on Hassad in 2925 HLSB p. 49
Kamakura’s Hussars formed in 2910 from Hexare & New Westin reserves (NOTE: in 3025 the regiment is not commanded by a Kamakura- this implies the name does not change as commanders change for HL mech units- the same is true of Ishara’s Grenadiers) HLSB p. 93
Ishara’s Grenadiers fought on Hassad in 2925 HLSB p. 49

Liao Reserves
Trimaldi’s Secutors formed in 2984 HLSB p. 86
Vincents Commandos invaded Chesterton in 2812 HLSB p. 47
Vincent’s Commandos formed between 2805 and 2810 from several commando battalions HLSB p. 86

Tikonov Reserves
Kincade’s Rangers -formed ? FM:CC p. 80
Kincaid’s Rangers defended corey in 2789 HLSB p. 46 Note Spelling difference)
Kincaide’s Rangers formed 2985  by defecting FS troops (mercs?) HLSB p. 87
Kerr’s Intruders formed 2950 HLSB p. 87
Ishara’s Grenadiers formed ? FM:CC p. 81

Chesterton Reserves
Kingston Legionnaires formed ? FM:CC p. 84
Kingston’s Legionnaires formed in 2916 from the 6th Capellan Reserve Cavalry and Shadrack’s Shadow Hawks HLSB p. 85
Sung’s Rangers - formed FM:CC p.85
Sung’s Cuirassiers  original regiment destroyed in 2668 (seems erronous as this was an assault against the FWL during the SL Era- maybe 2568? or earlier.) Rebuilt and fought on Lee in 2761. HLSB p. 85
1st Ariana Fusiliers invaded Chesterton in 2812 HLSB p. 47
1st Ariana Fusiliers formed in 2388 from remnants of Chesterton Border Guards. Served around the Tikonov area. HL SB p. 82
2nd Ariana Fusiliers invaded Chesterton in 2812 HLSB p. 47
2nd Ariana Fusiliers formed in 2799 HLSB p. 83
Ariana Grenadiers existed in 2785 fought in 1st SW HLSB p. 45
Ariana Grenadiers formed 2750s from several smaller companies, helped capture Demeter in 2765, 2782 led a successful attack against a heavily defended position on the Davion world of New Florence. HLSB p. 83
1st Chesterton Voltigeurs formed 2790s by Chesterton Expatriates.  HLSB p. 83
2nd Chesterton Voltigeurs existed in 2988 HLSB p. 50
2nd Chesterton Voltigeurs formed 2790s by Chesterton Expatriates.  HLSB p. 83
Hamilton’s Highlanders- formed in 2835 from remnants of Capellan regiments mauled during the siege of Tikonov 2832-2834 (Note: HLSB has contradictions on when this unit was formed) HLSB p. 84
Hamilton’s Highlanders fought against Amaris incursions during the Coup. HLSB p. 44
3rd Chesterton Voltigeurs formed? Fought on Tikonov 2832-2834HLSB p. 84
Lothar’s Fusiliers formed 2850 HLSB p. 85
23rd Chesterton Reserves- formed circa 2830 TR3025 P. 52


St Ives Armored Cavalry
formed in the latter years of the 24th Century, had more then a dozen mech regiments prior to the SW. FM:CC p. 103
1st St Ives Lancers formed July 26, 2373 FM:CC p. 105
1st SIL fought the Syrtis Fusiliers in 2760 on Bethel (almost destroyed) HLSB p. 88
2nd St Ives Lancers  formed July 26, 2373 workhorse unit of the Armored Cav FM:CC p. 105
St Ives Cheveau Legers - formed early in CC history, first blooded 2366-2368 on Lopez, HLSB p. 89
21st Centauri Lancers - fought FWL on Anegasaki in 2793 HMSB p. 29
21st Centauri Lancers -formerly a battalion of the SIAC that mutined. HMSB p. 105
Justinia’s Cuirassiers fought against Amaris incursions during the Coup. HLSB p. 44
Justina’s Cuirassiers was known as the Capellan Cuirassiers during the reign of Barbara Liao, Held Marlette 2761-2765 (dates seem suspect) HLSB p 89
Devon’s Armoed Infantry composed of ex-davion mercs- probably dates to late 30th Century HLSB p. 89
Stapleton’s Iron Hand formed in 2986 HLSB p. 90
Cochraine’s Goliaths invaded Chesterton in 2812 HLSB p. 47
Cochraine’s Goliaths -originally formed as the 5th Capellan Chargers in 2805, destroyed 2812, reformed in 2990 HLSB p. 90
Shepard’s Mounted Fusiliers fought on Lee in 2987 HLSB p. 50
Shepard’s Mounted Fusiliers -f ormed in 2995 from mercs HLSB p. 91
Blackwind Lancers  - date back to  General Kerensky’s crusade against Amaris FM:CC p. 114
Blackwind Lancers- raised as 14th (Zurich) Lancers during the Amaris Coup, 1 battalion served on unofficial loan to Kerensky towards the end of the conflict.HLSB p. 91
14th St ives Armored Cavalry - ref in TR3025 P. 52
7th St Ives Armored Cavalry- existed in 3025 TR3025 P. 90

Capellan Reserves
Justine’s Grenadiers raised from Volunteers on New Florence & Liao at the “height of the Succession Wars” fought on Materan against Atrean Dragoons in 2818 HLSB p. 92
Stapleton’s Grenadiers - existed at the time of Stephen Liao 2430-2450 HLSB p. 34
Stapleton’s Grenadiers - raised in 3001 (contradiction in HLSb over this date- need to resolve) HLSB p. 92

Sarn Reserves
Hurloc’s Hussars - formed in 2904 as 7th Confederation Reserve Cavalry, later reinforced by regular troops HLSB p. 93
Freemont’s Cuirassiers -raised early 30th Century HLSB p. 94

Hampton’s Hessens fought on Lee in 2987 HLSB p. 50
Hampton’s Hessens - 3 regiments, 1st New Hessen Irregulars, 2nd New Hessen Irregulars, New Hessen Armored Scouts - raised from New Hessen, Westerhand & Alrescha nominally mercs- more like house troops HLSB p. 96
Hampton’s Hessens- originally a social organization for retired troops from New Hessen, developed into a home grown militia of 3 regiments. Merc Sup 2 p. 40

Blandford’s Cuirassiers fought on Ulan Bator in 2799 (is this supposed to Blandford’s Grenadiers??) HLSB p. 47
Shadrack’s Shadow Hawks -disbanded 2916 HLSB p. 85
41st Capellan Heavy Assault Battalion destroyed by 1st Regulan Hussars in 2806 Rolling Thunder p. 6
3rd Tikonov Border Guards - existed in 2307 HLSB p. 21
141st & 173rd Sarna Shock Brigades existed in 2351 HLSB p. 23
Early Capellan units (circa 2360’s) include Morcock’s Rangers, Seneca’s Fusiliers, 1st & 3rd Tikonov Lancers and Seluk’s Principia - most lost in the fighting on Lee in 2363 - unknown if they were rebuilt or permantly disbanded. HLSB p. 25
McCrimmon’s Light Cavalry -raised in 2933 HLSB p. 94
MacGregor’s Armored Scouts - raised in 2933 HLSB p. 94
LaFarge Hussars -destroyed in 3010s- not sure if they were a house unit or mercs HDSB p. 93
Unidentitfied aerospace regiment went merc in 3011 and became Hells Black Aces FM:Merc p. 60
Dismal Disinherited formed in 2nd SW from CC mechwarriors who traced their heritage back to SLDF- maybe a house unit???  FM:Merc Rev p. 61
Bad Dream - CC battalion abandoned in DC during 1st SW (merc or house?) FM: Merc Sup Update P. 27
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2010, 08:23:33 AM »
Rainbow 6

is it just me or did the CCAF form a lot of units in the 2990's?

i'd assume they disbanded a lot of understrength regiment's and formed them into the new one's.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2010, 08:23:56 AM »
Ice Hellion

Maybe Maximilian wanted loyal soldiers?
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2010, 08:24:17 AM »
CJvR

This data (all five) must have taken some serious digging to compile!
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2010, 08:24:32 AM »
Takiro

It seems with the CCAF there are certain periods of whole scale change like the 2790s and the 2990s usually sparked by a new Chancellor.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2010, 08:24:57 AM »
FirstStarLord

Quote from: Takiro on April 09, 2009, 08:40:28 PM
It seems with the CCAF there are certain periods of whole scale change like the 2790s and the 2990s usually sparked by a new Chancellor.

Like I said earlier, it's hard to track the history of many Capellan regiments due to the constant military reforms. The CCAF of 2785 was probably a very different animal compared to the modern incarnation we are familiar with in Battletech.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2010, 08:35:47 AM »
CJvR

Quote from: lrose
CCAF had an all time high of 129 mech regiments in 2799. HLSB p. 51
I think we can settle for less than that figure. In OBT the CC annexed about a third of the TH getting access to the enormous resources and wealth of those worlds not to mention military factories and stockpiles left behind by the SLDF. No other SS gained anywhere near as much assets as the CC. After the Jinjiro offensive in 2787 and the following implosion of the FS Terran corridor the CC had well over a third of the old TH worlds with the DC claiming almost a third and the LC & FWL arguing over the last third.

Without that infusion of economic and industrial strength the CCAF strength would peak far sooner, and at a far lower level, and most importantly would fall much faster as well. Unless the historic campaigns of SW2 are very much altered in BTSD the CC will likely not survive SW2, it barely did with all those former TH systems backing it up.


The DC will also have problems, big problems. Without the 40 or so worlds it gained from the TH the DC will also be in a much weaker position. Even the gains made, about 1/4 of the OBT, is a disasterous outcome for the DC. Both the CC and the DC really needed those worlds. In contrast the FS have about what it did in OBT, making it's position much stronger in relation to it's enemies. The LC is the nation that needed the TH worlds the least so they should not feel much of a pinch from not getting any. The FWL got about it's OBT cut but at a high cost and it also failed to hang on to much of it.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2010, 08:36:08 AM »
Ice Hellion

Quote from: CJvR on April 09, 2009, 10:01:57 PM
In contrast the FS have about what it did in OBT, making it's position much stronger in relation to it's enemies.

In spite of being a paper tiger.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2010, 08:36:26 AM »
CJvR


Quote from: Ice Hellion
In spite of being a paper tiger.
Oh it still is. But the AFFS got almost nothing from the TH trainwreck and fought SW1 mostly with it's own assets stockpiled before the war. Both the DC and the CC made huge gains in the TH, particulary the CC. Without those gains the DC and especially the CC will be in a weaker position. The FWL losses in their Terran offensive might compensate for a while with lesser pressure on the CC but in the long run the CC is in deep trouble.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2010, 08:37:22 AM »
Takiro

Quote
Prior to the SWs the CC fielded 129 Front Line mech regiments FM:CC p.32
CCAF had an all time high of 129 mech regiments in 2799. HLSB p. 51

I wanted to begin by focusing in on these two quotes cause they set the bar for the CCAF. I tend to agree with various assessments that during the opening phase of the canon Succession War the Cappies didn't disband or merge their units because of battle damage. This brings up an interesting subject for the first unit I will bring up because we know it exists in the BTSD setting.

Turin Light Cavalry (4 battalions or 4 regiments?)
As you know the TLC replaces the Tau Ceti Rangers in the CCAF Order of Battle circa 2785. This single sentence is the key to my question for you, "Currently at four battalions in strength it will take quite sometime until the Light Cavalry reaches full RCT size as the Chancellor has decreed." So how should we count these guys? Based on our conclusion (see 129 regiments) above Capellan figures could mean an ideal rating rather than an actual facts. This is an interesting Liao like philosophy (and certainly a red meat item to be discussed in Terran analysis for the book) based on the central planning and the command economy which operates at the Chancellor's whim. I could see it.

Existing Canon Units
Okay time to get down to the nitty gritty here and see what all our evidence has proofed out. I shall go by overall parent formations rather than individual Liao units which seem to be very fluid as we can all see. Aside from the Capellan Hussars (4-5 regiments) and the St Ives Armored Cavalry (More than 12 regiments) what else is there? Did any of the Reserve formations exist as it seems they were created in 2832? Although this seems to be contradicted by "Capellan Reserve Cavalry fought on Lee in 2363 badly massacured in the fighting." (HLSB p. 25) And what of the Capellan Lancers (which could include the Preston and Blackwind units)? I see Irose has some findings on the Blackwind Lancers under St. Ives.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2010, 08:37:49 AM »
Quote from: Takiro on April 10, 2009, 01:53:48 AM

Turin Light Cavalry (4 battalions or 4 regiments?)
As you know the TLC replaces the Tau Ceti Rangers in the CCAF Order of Battle circa 2785. This single sentence is the key to my question for you, "Currently at four battalions in strength it will take quite sometime until the Light Cavalry reaches full RCT size as the Chancellor has decreed." So how should we count these guys? Based on our conclusion (see 129 regiments) above Capellan figures could mean an ideal rating rather than an actual facts. This is an interesting Liao like philosophy (and certainly a red meat item to be discussed in Terran analysis for the book) based on the central planning and the command economy which operates at the Chancellor's whim. I could see it.

When I refer to a regiment I don't look at the number of battalions- for example the Sword of Light regiments have 4 battalions, but I still count the 5 regiments as 5 regiments, not as 6 regiments 2 battalions-It just seems simpler to me.

Quote
Existing Canon Units
Okay time to get down to the nitty gritty here and see what all our evidence has proofed out. I shall go by overall parent formations rather than individual Liao units which seem to be very fluid as we can all see. Aside from the Capellan Hussars (4-5 regiments) and the St Ives Armored Cavalry (More than 12 regiments) what else is there? Did any of the Reserve formations exist as it seems they were created in 2832? Although this seems to be contradicted by "Capellan Reserve Cavalry fought on Lee in 2363 badly massacured in the fighting." (HLSB p. 25) And what of the Capellan Lancers (which could include the Preston and Blackwind units)? I see Irose has some findings on the Blackwind Lancers under St. Ives.

Let me start with the St Ives Armored Cavalry
First at this point in time the Blackwind Lancers are the 14th (Zurich) Lancers (it was specifically written that way with the parentheses).  Now Zurich isn't part of the St Ives Commonality but what if each lancers regiment was named for a different planet- i.e. the 1st & 2nd Lancers are named for St Ives since that is where they recruited from, maybe the 3rd was named the 3rd (Texlos) Lancers, then we could have the 4th (Teng) Lancers and so on.  Not sure how we explain the use of Zurich (which isn't even in the CC) unless we just chalk it up to a continuity error from the early days of BT.  (adding to the is the Red Lancers, which came from the St Ives Commonality were originally the 2nd Hexare Lancers- but Hexare is in the Sian Commonality)

Next the reserve issue- when referring to reserves:
Reserve formations were created in 2832 HLSB p. 48

This specifically referred to the "newly reconstituted Chesterton Reserves" not the Reserve Cavalry regiments.  My question after this refers to those formations (Sian, Capellan, Tikonov, Sarn, Liao & Chesterton Reserves) - were new regiments created for these organizations (doubtful) or was this more of an administrative change- creating a strategic reserve for defensive operations.

It is possible that the Confederation Reserve Cavalry existed at this point. Note that Hurloc's Warriors was formed from the CRC in 2904 meaning the formation existed at some point before that.

We know the 1st Ariana Fusiliers existed in 2785, but the 2nd was not formed until 2799. The Ariana Grenadiers also existed at this point as did Sung's Cuirassiers and possibly Hamilton's Highlanders- all regiments which eventually became part of the Chesterton Reserves. We also have a 23rd Chesterton Reserves formed in 2830

We also have Cochraine's Goliaths which was originally formed as the 5th Capellan Chargers in 2805 - could be others that existed in 2785.

The CC also seems to have a lot independent battalions- several commando battalions were combined to form Vincents Commandos and there is mention of a 41st Capellan Heavy Assault Battalion in 2806.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2010, 08:39:31 AM »
Takiro

Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 02:40:23 AM
When I refer to a regiment I don't look at the number of battalions- for example the Sword of Light regiments have 4 battalions, but I still count the 5 regiments as 5 regiments, not as 6 regiments 2 battalions-It just seems simpler to me.

Exactly but my question or point is in reference to the CCAF and how they count regiments. I don't want to get off subject on the Sword of Light but hang with the Turin Light Cavalry example. Their actual strength is four battalions and they probably operate as a single regiment. But the Capellan bean counters because of the Chancellor's decree might count them as four regiments now and that factors into the 129 regiment number meaning that overall number could be lower. I'm trying to think like a Liao remember.

And continuing along those admittedly confusing but idealistic thought patterns do the Cappies consider the Northwind Highlanders part of this 129 overall regiment number? Yes they are mercs I know but Liao has a different command mindset on how they view reality.

If you did these two things the actual number of Liao regiments would be very close to the Lyran number 122. See where I'm going.

Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 02:40:23 AM
Let me start with the St Ives Armored Cavalry
First at this point in time the Blackwind Lancers are the 14th (Zurich) Lancers (it was specifically written that way with the parentheses).  Now Zurich isn't part of the St Ives Commonality but what if each lancers regiment was named for a different planet- i.e. the 1st & 2nd Lancers are named for St Ives since that is where they recruited from, maybe the 3rd was named the 3rd (Texlos) Lancers, then we could have the 4th (Teng) Lancers and so on.  Not sure how we explain the use of Zurich (which isn't even in the CC) unless we just chalk it up to a continuity error from the early days of BT.  (adding to the is the Red Lancers, which came from the St Ives Commonality were originally the 2nd Hexare Lancers- but Hexare is in the Sian Commonality)

I gotcha but are these Lancers part of the St. Ives Armored Cavalry or a different parent formation, say the Capellan Lancers.

Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 02:40:23 AM
Next the reserve issue- when referring to reserves:
Reserve formations were created in 2832 HLSB p. 48

This specifically referred to the "newly reconstituted Chesterton Reserves" not the Reserve Cavalry regiments.  My question after this refers to those formations (Sian, Capellan, Tikonov, Sarn, Liao & Chesterton Reserves) - were new regiments created for these organizations (doubtful) or was this more of an administrative change- creating a strategic reserve for defensive operations.

It is possible that the Confederation Reserve Cavalry existed at this point. Note that Hurloc's Warriors was formed from the CRC in 2904 meaning the formation existed at some point before that.

Okay then the Confederation Reserve Cavalry does exist at this time but the other Reserve formations do not. I can see the difference. It also means that

Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 02:40:23 AM
We know the 1st Ariana Fusiliers existed in 2785, but the 2nd was not formed until 2799. The Ariana Grenadiers also existed at this point as did Sung's Cuirassiers and possibly Hamilton's Highlanders- all regiments which eventually became part of the Chesterton Reserves. We also have a 23rd Chesterton Reserves formed in 2830

We also have Cochraine's Goliaths which was originally formed as the 5th Capellan Chargers in 2805 - could be others that existed in 2785.

The CC also seems to have a lot independent battalions- several commando battalions were combined to form Vincents Commandos and there is mention of a 41st Capellan Heavy Assault Battalion in 2806.

These units were likely part of different but larger parent organization not referred to as Reserve. Chesterton as one of the ten Capellan nations that formed the Confederation are likely to have representation in the military as Parent Formations at this time. Also there are important worlds like Andurien which also may have smaller Parent Formations in the CCAF.

The Capellan Chargers may indeed be another parent formation if we look at Cochraine's Goliaths.

A Commando parent organization that preceded the Death Commandos is also an idea. Operating at battalion strength they could be excellent raiders at this time.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2010, 08:40:14 AM »
Quote from: Takiro on April 10, 2009, 10:39:26 AM
Exactly but my question or point is in reference to the CCAF and how they count regiments. I don't want to get off subject on the Sword of Light but hang with the Turin Light Cavalry example. Their actual strength is four battalions and they probably operate as a single regiment. But the Capellan bean counters because of the Chancellor's decree might count them as four regiments now and that factors into the 129 regiment number meaning that overall number could be lower. I'm trying to think like a Liao remember.

And continuing along those admittedly confusing but idealistic thought patterns do the Cappies consider the Northwind Highlanders part of this 129 overall regiment number? Yes they are mercs I know but Liao has a different command mindset on how they view reality.
Quote

I can see what you are saying about how the CC counts it strength and that does make sense.  I also agree that the CC probably counts the Highlanders as a house unit.

Quote

I gotcha but are these Lancers part of the St. Ives Armored Cavalry or a different parent formation, say the Capellan Lancers.
Quote

I would say they are part of the St Ives Armored Cavalry- I haven't seen any evidence of a "lancers" formation in any of the material.  The real question is does the St Ives Armored Cavalry exist in 2785 or is a "reserve formation" that was formed in 2832?


Quote
These units were likely part of different but larger parent organization not referred to as Reserve. Chesterton as one of the ten Capellan nations that formed the Confederation are likely to have representation in the military as Parent Formations at this time. Also there are important worlds like Andurien which also may have smaller Parent Formations in the CCAF.

I agree with this.

Quote
The Capellan Chargers may indeed be another parent formation if we look at Cochraine's Goliaths.

Maybe they were originally the representative of the Capellan Commonality?

Quote
A Commando parent organization that preceded the Death Commandos is also an idea. Operating at battalion strength they could be excellent raiders at this time.

I see the Capellans having a lot of smaller units/battalions, as their weaker strength would force them to parcel out their troops in smaller groups to meet all the demands placed on them.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2010, 08:40:53 AM »
takiro

Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 11:22:46 AM
I can see what you are saying about how the CC counts it strength and that does make sense.  I also agree that the CC probably counts the Highlanders as a house unit.

Excellent, I think the whole issue of Capellan Counting is a superb insight into their psyche and it does explain why the Highlander issue is so confusing as well.

Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 11:22:46 AM
I would say they are part of the St Ives Armored Cavalry- I haven't seen any evidence of a "lancers" formation in any of the material.  The real question is does the St Ives Armored Cavalry exist in 2785 or is a "reserve formation" that was formed in 2832?

Let me say I do believe that the St. Ives Armored Cavalry did exist as a Parent Formation in the Capellan Confederation according to canon. Your evidence shows that by pointing out they had a dozen plus regiments to begin the Succession War with. Actually the Lancers issue comes together thanks to the Zurich (Blackwind) and Centauri Lancer formations which were stated as SIAC in canon. Correct? But what of the Preston Lancers? Maybe they are from a different Parent Formation.

Glad you agree with my assessment on the reserve contingents. Now a good question what were the nation-states that joined the Confederation?

Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 11:22:46 AM
Maybe they were originally the representative of the Capellan Commonality?

The Capellan Chargers could well be the military representatives of Capella true.

Quote from: lrose on April 10, 2009, 11:22:46 AM
I see the Capellans having a lot of smaller units/battalions, as their weaker strength would force them to parcel out their troops in smaller groups to meet all the demands placed on them.

What of my idea for a pre-Death Commando formation?
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2010, 08:42:18 AM »
Quote from: Takiro on April 10, 2009, 01:09:37 PM
Let me say I do believe that the St. Ives Armored Cavalry did exist as a Parent Formation in the Capellan Confederation according to canon. Your evidence shows that by pointing out they had a dozen plus regiments to begin the Succession War with.

I agree- I think the SIAC may be descended from the St Ives Mercantile Association military.

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Actually the Lancers issue comes together thanks to the Zurich (Blackwind) and Centauri Lancer formations which were stated as SIAC in canon. Correct? But what of the Preston Lancers? Maybe they are from a different Parent Formation.

Ignoring Preston's Lancers for a moment- all of the Lancer units are mentioned as part of the St Ives military- the 2nd Hexare Lancers (later Red Lancers), the 1st & 2nd St Ives Lancers, the 14th (Zurich Lancers), 21st Centauri Lancers.

Preston's Lancers is only mentioned in the HLSB Unit tables- they do not have a description and do not appear in any other books.  They are not part of any Capellan organization and may be an error in the book- I really don't know how to explain them (since there is no information on them)

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Glad you agree with my assessment on the reserve contingents. Now a good question what were the nation-states that joined the Confederation?

Start with the big ones:
Capellan Hegemony
Sarna Supremecy
Duchy of Liao
Tikonov Grand Union
Chesterton Trade Worlds
Sian Commonwealth
St Ives Mercantile Association

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What of my idea for a pre-Death Commando formation?

This would be a very pre Death Commando formation- they Death Commandos did not come around until Max Liao.
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