Topic: Overview - TDF (Read 26300 times)

Trace Coburn · « **on:** June 16, 2011, 09:22:55 AM »

I don't really know if this is going to become relevant to the stories or not, but it wouldn't leave me alone and I figured if I put it up here for you folks to look at and critique, maybe I can start moving back towards the main theatre of action.

The attached .pdf contains the livery, rank-insignia, deployment-doctrine, and some of the unique combat units of the Taurian Defence Force as of the end of the (First) Succession War in the AU of The Virginia War. There are a lot of influences and semi-borrowed ideas in there, including some stuff from these very boards that caught my notice, so if you see anything you recognise and want proper attribution for your work, please sing out about it!

Also, if anyone reading this has artistic skills and is willing to do some work for The Virginia War, especially anyone who's been doing stuff for TRO3063 or possibly even professionally, I'd welcome your assistance. I can't afford to pay my power-bill, much less commissions to artists, but if you're willing to work for free, or modify and donate some discards from other projects....

As much as most BT art tends to be depictions of combat-units, and I'd eagerly accept such, I'd place a slightly higher priority on artwork of folks in the appropriate uniform(s), as a visual reference for the fic-readers.

Well, long rambling spiel over; file attached below. The layout's functional at best, it's mostly unadorned, and the little art included is mostly canonical pics or depressingly low-res Paint.Net re-edits of such because I don't have a vector-graphics programme or the artistic talent to use one, but let's see what else you think.

Knightmare · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2011, 09:51:11 AM »

This is a great PDF. Well done Trace.

Blacknova · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2011, 08:47:38 PM »

Nice Work

Ice Hellion · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2011, 11:21:37 AM »

Interesting but French and Spanish are wrong

I don't know yet how I would translate Taurian in both languages (from Taurus?) but it would be
ArmÃ©e/Flotte du Concordat "Taurien"
Ejercito/Armada del Concordato "Taurien"

I also didn't find the fleet organisation apart from the few words on flotillas and squadrons.

Trace Coburn · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2011, 10:46:55 PM »

Quote from: Ice Hellion on June 18, 2011, 11:21:37 AM

Interesting but French and Spanish are wrong

I don't know yet how I would translate Taurian in both languages (from Taurus?) but it would be
ArmÃ©e/Flotte du Concordat "Taurien"
Ejercito/Armada del Concordato "Taurien"

I don't quite recall when or how I came up with those translations, but I strongly suspect I made a deliberate choice to use feminine grammar in reference to the Concordat, much in the way the French shout "Vive la France!" or Russians refer to "Mother Russia".

That said, the corrections on the other words are welcome.

Quote from: Ice Hellion on June 18, 2011, 11:21:37 AM

I also didn't find the fleet organisation apart from the few words on flotillas and squadrons.

I haven't yet delved into the details of the TCN's equipment or strength, so the interim assumption was that it was more or less as it was in canon as of the Periphery SB (1e or 2e, there's little difference), and if/when I hash out an exact TO&E and/or Order of Battle for the TCN, I'll update the document accordingly. I just felt that the note about terminology was an important element in characterising the Taurian Navy's mindset... and letting people know that hearing a TCN officer refer to a 'squadron' would be cause for leadership types across all the Rimward Successor States to hear blaring alarm-klaxons, if not lay in a supply of Browne Pants^TM.

Ice Hellion · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2011, 04:47:39 PM »

Quote from: Trace Coburn on June 18, 2011, 10:46:55 PM

I don't quite recall when or how I came up with those translations, but I strongly suspect I made a deliberate choice to use feminine grammar in reference to the Concordat, much in the way the French shout "Vive la France!" or Russians refer to "Mother Russia".
That said, the corrections on the other words are welcome.

Except that Concordat is masculine in French.

I am still puzzled by the right translation from Taurian: perhaps I should look for the "official" translations.

Ice Hellion · « **Reply #6 on:** June 20, 2011, 05:02:59 PM »

I checked in BattleTech Compendium in Spanish and it is Concordato de Tauro.
Since Tauro is the constellation name, my guess for French would be Concordat du Taureau.

Trace Coburn · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2011, 07:40:49 AM »

Quote from: Ice Hellion on June 20, 2011, 04:47:39 PM

Quote from: Trace Coburn on June 18, 2011, 10:46:55 PM
I don't quite recall when or how I came up with those translations, but I strongly suspect I made a deliberate choice to use feminine grammar in reference to the Concordat, much in the way the French shout "Vive la France!" or Russians refer to "Mother Russia".
That said, the corrections on the other words are welcome.

Except that Concordat is masculine in French.

I am still puzzled by the right translation from Taurian: perhaps I should look for the "official" translations.

Quote from: Ice Hellion on June 20, 2011, 05:02:59 PM

I checked in BattleTech Compendium in Spanish and it is Concordato de Tauro.
Since Tauro is the constellation name, my guess for French would be Concordat du Taureau.

Corrections applied in my .doc version, ready for inclusion in the next .pdf. Happy now?

Of course, looking at that has me wanting to do a full OOB for the TCA and TCN, but that would involve a lot of work on what's really a fringe topic to the rest of The Virginia War - unless I rip off whole chunks of lrose's Shattered Dawn TDF Field Manual, which would not only be plagiarism and/or lazy, but also rather disconnected from some of the base assumptions behind The Virginia War.

For instance, if the Taurians are churning out Toros at multiple sites as fast as they can (as I've already assumed) and refuse to sell them on the open market (because it is to the TDF what the Commando is to the Lyrans), why the heck aren't they forming entire new Toro regiments every year, and where are all those shiny-new 'Mechs going? Even if the canon nations have populations two orders of magnitude smaller than canon says they do (as I'm assuming), that's still more than enough manpower and economic output to pull a 'Sherman Swarm' on their enemies.... $:-\$
Goddamn FASAnomics.

Ice Hellion · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2011, 02:11:38 PM »

Quote from: Trace Coburn on June 21, 2011, 07:40:49 AM

Corrections applied in my .doc version, ready for inclusion in the next .pdf. Happy now?

and Fasanomics rule!

Trace Coburn · « **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2011, 09:13:40 AM »

Okay, here's version 1.1 for everyone's inspection and dissection. I've redone the enlisted insignia and expanded a lot of the material, but I've also trimmed out some of the battlefield units in favour of others, revised some of the terminology, and included gameplay rules for 'XO rockets' on ground-units. They're nasty in ambushes or sucker-punches, but you don't want to still have them attached when the other guy starts shooting back....

I'm a little torn on the matter of the Taurian Navy, though. As much as I'm drooling over the Concordat-class frigate from Historical: Reunification War and want to give the TC a couple of 'hidden' hulls, and maybe even a 'hidden' shipyard to build said frigates(!) as well as transport JumpShips, my munchkin-meter pegs every time I consider the idea.

Hell, given that the TC just spent fifty-odd years evacuating dying worlds and dealing with the attendant economic implosion, not to mention undergoing a godawful house-cleaning after Semyon's War, I'm not sure I haven't overplayed my hand as things stand.... $:-\$

And for the record, this is the sort of readout I want/hope to eventually do for every factional military, though the final versions will include full TRO sections with record-sheets, Renegade Tech SSDs, and the rules for each faction's unique weaponry.
(Art would be great, too, but it'd have to be done by someone who actually knows which end of a pencil (or stylus) to hold....

)

Ice Hellion · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2011, 01:31:06 PM »

Quote from: Trace Coburn on June 30, 2011, 09:13:40 AM

(Art would be great, too, but it'd have to be done by someone who actually knows which end of a pencil (or stylus) to hold.... )

Then I am out.

Knightmare · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2011, 02:15:13 PM »

I can really only kitbash.

lrose · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2011, 09:49:36 AM »

Quote from: Trace Coburn on June 30, 2011, 09:13:40 AM

I'm a little torn on the matter of the Taurian Navy, though. As much as I'm drooling over the Concordat-class frigate from Historical: Reunification War and want to give the TC a couple of 'hidden' hulls, and maybe even a 'hidden' shipyard to build said frigates(!) as well as transport JumpShips, my munchkin-meter pegs every time I consider the idea.

You can actually justify the warships fairly easily using HB:MPS and H:RW. From H:RW we know the TC had 9 warships left in 2600 - 4 years after the end of RW!! (Really the SL let the TC keep warships- that's what the book said even though a rabid Taurian fan like me would be the first to say the TC had no warship left after the RW- well at least operational ones- the Vandenberg doesn't coun) From the Concordat fluff we have a statement that while no Concordats were built after the war the last few survived until the 1st Succession War (really that's what says -don't believe me you can check the book) - it doesn't say with whom they served but seeing as the TC had 9 Warships in 2600 you could argue it was with the Concordat. (The only other logical choice would be the AFFS - and since when do logic and BT go together?). It is unknown what happened to these that they were lost during the 1st SW- I would chalk it up to maintenance issues (seeing as the TC lacks any major shipyards) or Comstar (why not?- they seem guilty of everything, even if they didn't do it) rather then combat. Now even more interesting is the fluff from the Tigress gunboat in HB:MPS- it specifically says the Tigress, which was introduced in 2790, "was initially planned as a Dropship of Warship escort craft" Really a warship escort- why would design a warship escort unless you have warships. So there- by using 2 very recent publications you can easily justify the TC having some warships during the 1st SW (and keep in mind according to the fluff the last Concordats were destroyed/lost during the 1st SW not the Uprisings.)

You could theoretically have a shipyard- at one point I created the Norfolk Naval Shipyard for yet another Taurian AU I did which was basically a naval base hidden in a giant asteroid that the SLDF never located and which survived until the 3060s- but a hidden shipyard may be pushing it (then again I am convinced that the writers lost a huge opportunity with the Badlands Cluster - once we learned it had been a part of the TC I assumed it was the ideal place for a hidden shipyard.)

Trace Coburn · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2011, 10:36:55 AM »

Quote from: lrose on July 27, 2011, 09:49:36 AM

Quote from: Trace Coburn on June 30, 2011, 09:13:40 AM
I'm a little torn on the matter of the Taurian Navy, though. As much as I'm drooling over the Concordat-class frigate from Historical: Reunification War and want to give the TC a couple of 'hidden' hulls, and maybe even a 'hidden' shipyard to build said frigates(!) as well as transport JumpShips, my munchkin-meter pegs every time I consider the idea.

You can actually justify the warships fairly easily using HB:MPS and H:RW. From H:RW we know the TC had 9 warships left in 2600 - 4 years after the end of RW!! (Really the SL let the TC keep warships- that's what the book said even though a rabid Taurian fan like me would be the first to say the TC had no warship left after the RW- well at least operational ones- the Vandenberg doesn't coun) From the Concordat fluff we have a statement that while no Concordats were built after the war the last few survived until the 1st Succession War (really that's what says -don't believe me you can check the book) - it doesn't say with whom they served but seeing as the TC had 9 Warships in 2600 you could argue it was with the Concordat. (The only other logical choice would be the AFFS - and since when do logic and BT go together?). It is unknown what happened to these that they were lost during the 1st SW- I would chalk it up to maintenance issues (seeing as the TC lacks any major shipyards) or Comstar (why not?- they seem guilty of everything, even if they didn't do it) rather then combat. Now even more interesting is the fluff from the Tigress gunboat in HB:MPS- it specifically says the Tigress, which was introduced in 2790, "was initially planned as a Dropship of Warship escort craft" Really a warship escort- why would design a warship escort unless you have warships. So there - by using 2 very recent publications you can easily justify the TC having some warships during the 1st SW (and keep in mind according to the fluff the last Concordats were destroyed/lost during the 1st SW not the Uprisings.)

Yeah, I caught that in Reunification War; I'm still ambivalent about the idea, though. I'm trying to keep a firm rein on my munchtastic impulses, and as lovely an image as it is, a squadron of Concordats (or even a couple of your own excellent Bulldogs from the Taurian Initiative AU!) holds the potential to disrupt the fine balance I'm trying to strike.

Quote from: lrose on July 27, 2011, 09:49:36 AM

You could theoretically have a shipyard - at one point I created the Norfolk Naval Shipyard for yet another Taurian AU I did which was basically a naval base hidden in a giant asteroid that the SLDF never located and which survived until the 3060s - but a hidden shipyard may be pushing it

Which is another idea I was/am fully prepared to yoink from you and from canon, by the way - Ruins of Gabriel, anyone? - but the economic catastrophe that was the post-Coup loss of TH supplies and components, as well as the general destruction that was 1SW, combine to make it implausible for the yard to keep operating when the TC had a whole slew of other problems that didn't involve 'throwing money down a pit' (to borrow a phrase from those inevitable domestic opponents of WarShip construction).

Of course, the way my backstory's internal logic is evolving it looks like at least the FedSuns' WarShip construction facilities actually came out of 1SW in fairly decent shape, at least by the standards set by the post-REVIVAL era, so the TC would probably need to do something to offset the threat of WarShips, and delivering nuclear-tipped Arrow-IV ASEWs through the heart of a WarShip's defences is asking a bit much of the TC's ASF pilot-corps in the face of my assumptions about the threat-environment. I don't doubt their courage and patriotism, but there's a difference between a forlorn-hope and committing outright suicide-by-futility.

Quote from: lrose on July 27, 2011, 09:49:36 AM

(then again I am convinced that the writers lost a huge opportunity with the Badlands Cluster - once we learned it had been a part of the TC I assumed it was the ideal place for a hidden shipyard.)

QFT. I know they were rushed for time and all, and they certainly didn't want/need to 'borrow trouble' by writing something that could be misconstrued (or outright twisted) the way so many other loose-ends have been in BT fandom, but the way they brushed off the Badlands as 'the Taurians never went there, because it was too hard, so there was never anything important there' really was just a shame.

lrose · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2011, 11:04:39 AM »

Quote from: Trace Coburn on July 27, 2011, 10:36:55 AM

Yeah, I caught that in Reunification War; I'm still ambivalent about the idea, though. I'm trying to keep a firm rein on my munchtastic impulses, and as lovely an image as it is, a squadron of Concordats (or even a couple of your own excellent Bulldogs from the Taurian Initiative AU!) holds the potential to disrupt the fine balance I'm trying to strike.

Considering how easy it is to justify the availability of Taurian warships by using several canon sources I would not consider it munchy. To me munchy is when you suddenly say without justification that the Concordat found/hid hundreds of warships and now has the largest fleet in the IS, full of Destroyers, Cruisers and Battleships. (say sort of like the Ruins of Gabriel...)

Quote

Which is another idea I was/am fully prepared to yoink from you and from canon, by the way - Ruins of Gabriel, anyone? - but the economic catastrophe that was the post-Coup loss of TH supplies and components, as well as the general destruction that was 1SW, combine to make it implausible for the yard to keep operating when the TC had a whole slew of other problems that didn't involve 'throwing money down a pit' (to borrow a phrase from those inevitable domestic opponents of WarShip construction).

The approach I took was that the shipyard was shut down from the RW through the 3060s. It was maintained, and more importantly the knowledge needed to design and build the ships was maintained but there was no production, just routine maintenance on the last remnants of the Taurian fleet (which was secretly mothballed at end of the RW in that particular setting). Actually I used the TCW Albatross as cover for reactivation of the yard- the bulk of the money spent on the Vandenberg actually went to reactive the Shipyard and start production of new ships for the Concordat...

Quote

QFT. I know they were rushed for time and all, and they certainly didn't want/need to 'borrow trouble' by writing something that could be misconstrued (or outright twisted) the way so many other loose-ends have been in BT fandom, but the way they brushed off the Badlands as 'the Taurians never went there, because it was too hard, so there was never anything important there' really was just a shame.

I know they did not want to do something silly like put a shipyard there (unless they intended to give it to the WOB) but the whole there's a planet there that the Taurians controlled and no one went there during the war is just stupid. It sounds like the perfect place to tie down the SLDF -keep them hunting the remnants of the fleet, which keeps them from say attacking the Hyades Cluster.

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Author Topic: Overview - TDF (Read 26300 times)

Trace Coburn

Overview - TDF

Knightmare

Re: Overview - TDF

Blacknova

Re: Overview - TDF

Ice Hellion

Re: Overview - TDF

Trace Coburn

Re: Overview - TDF

Ice Hellion

Re: Overview - TDF

Ice Hellion

Re: Overview - TDF

Trace Coburn

Re: Overview - TDF

Ice Hellion

Re: Overview - TDF

Trace Coburn

Re: Overview - TDF

Ice Hellion

Re: Overview - TDF

Knightmare

Re: Overview - TDF

lrose

Re: Overview - TDF

Trace Coburn

Re: Overview - TDF

lrose

Re: Overview - TDF