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Author Topic: First Lord Minoru Kurita?  (Read 3806 times)

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Blacknova

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First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« on: May 14, 2012, 06:45:09 AM »

Has anyone ever what if'ed Minoru Kurita not walking into a laser beam on Kentares? 

What would have happened had New Avalon and the Golden Five fallen? 

Would the other Lords see him as the real first Lord after that, instead of just one of the 5?

Would the other Lords ally against him?

Would an Inner Sphere dominated by the Kuritans seen the Clans return earlier?
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Takiro

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2012, 08:24:37 AM »

I don't know if the Combine could conquer such a vast realm. I mean the Federated Suns is BattleTechs version of Russia with all of its star systems. However they do have the Kuirita-Davion line to install on the Suns throne.

So lets say they do conquer the Suns. An alliance with Capellans is certainly possible if you give them Chesterton and all their lost worlds back. Now given the fact that you got 3 of the 5 great houses under the sway of the dragon i could see marik joining the Draconis contolled League if you can guarantee their autonomy under the old accords.

This leaves House Steiner which would not accept the Dragon on the Star Throne. You'd have to conquer them and the Periphery which could be joined by an Outback Rump State of the Federated Suns. So you'd have a ton of conquest left. Not to mention what does ComStar do?
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lrose

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2012, 08:50:26 AM »

This leaves House Steiner which would not accept the Dragon on the Star Throne. You'd have to conquer them and the Periphery which could be joined by an Outback Rump State of the Federated Suns. So you'd have a ton of conquest left. Not to mention what does ComStar do?

Why do I suddenly have a picture of numerous FS worlds joining the Concordat for protection against the Combine?  Would the Combine be able to attack them- so many of their troops would be tied up on garrison duty in the FS that I don't think they would have enough for offensive operations against either the LC or the TC.
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Takiro

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2012, 10:26:19 AM »

Why would the combine even bother trying in the near term. A Filtvelt Coalition would be no immediate threat to them. Not much industry. The shattered remnants of the AFFS would pose some risk. So raid the hell out of them. A periphery alliance i could see almost certainly.  The priority for the kurita league is taking down steiner. No easy feat but having marik help could make it possible. Maybe the kuritas could back an amaris claimant and try to restore the RWR as an ally.
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Ice Hellion

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2012, 01:17:10 PM »

Could the Draconis Combine conquer the Federated Suns?
I have doubts about that, if only because their logistics was failing.
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Blacknova

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2012, 06:55:29 PM »

By taking New Avalon and the Golden Five, most of the Draconis March and a large chunk of the Crucis, there would be no real need to go much further.  Davion would be broken for decades, allowing the Dragon to look eslewhere as it digested the its meal of Daion Worlds.
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FirstStarLord

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2012, 08:27:25 PM »

I could see a scenario where Minoru escaped death on Kentares and managed to take New Avalon, and in doing so breaks the FedSuns as a nation state forever. I could also see him turning around and gobbling up a good chunk of the Lyran Commonwealth. The Combine at that point would be the largest and most powerful state in the Inner Sphere.

But Minoru being recognized as First Lord? It would never happen. The Lyrans would never go for it, and the FWL and CapCon would still be to far away for him to cow. Besides, how serious were any of the house lords about becoming First Lord anyway? Didn't the old House SBs say that Minoru made his declaration to goad his enemies into conflict rather than out of any serious attempt to succeed the Camerons? John Davion arguably had a legitimate claim, but he was too afraid to state it before Kurita forced the issue. Jennifer Steiner outright stated she had no interest in the title (none of her descendants ever challenged that proclamation either), Barbara Liao declared herself First Lord to defend the political dignity of her realm. Kenyon Marik might have been the only one to seriously believe that he had a chance of creating a new Star League from conquest, and a lot of his own people disagreed with him on that.

The Succession Wars often seemed to be more about inertia and ingrained hatred towards neighboring empires than a true attempt to become new First Lord. I imagine a Successor State "winning" would have boiled down to them killing a good chunk of the people in the other four realms, leaving them even more devastated than per canon.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 10:12:22 PM by FirstStarLord »
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Knightmare

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2012, 08:51:12 PM »

Timeframe is important. This is still pretty early in the Succession Wars. Sacking New Avalon and more or less subduing the Federated Suns helps end fighting along one huge front. Additionally, at this point combatants have larger armies, better infrastructure and higher technology, so logistics might not be as bad off as you think Ice. Then again, any sort of guerilla action will likely hold up Combine forces for a long, long time. (Then again, BT is notorious for being pretty light on the whole rebel thing. Seems to only work well in the Periphery.)

As for ComStar, well they've got Interdiction going for them, but little else at this point. Certainly not enough to stop a large DC invasion force.

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drakensis

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2012, 02:18:58 AM »

If Minoru isn't killed then it's very likely that he secures the DCMS' grip on Robinson, Fairfax and Markeson Operational Areas and that New Avalon falls to the DCMS, led by Jinjiro. They might at this point accept terms.

I can't see the members of House Davion not fighting ferociously for New Avalon, which suggests heavy casualties among them, quite possibly killing off John or his immediate heirs (or both).

At this point, with the Federated Suns missing much of its industry and politically destablized it's likely that Minoru would want to move on. The big threat posed by the FedSuns has been destroyed, and although weakened by the campaign, the DCMS should still be enough in his eyes, to take on the Lyran Commonwealth (which he earlier decided was weak enough it could be dealt with later), or secure a grip on the former Terran Hegemony worlds (arguably a better investment).

The Capellans had certainly been interested in a deal (and had retaken all the Chesterton worlds except Chesterton itself). However Minoru's response had been that all he was interested in was them kissing his boots so that went nowhere. No doubt under these circumstances the Capellans would manage to take Chesterton.

I could see the DCMS doing less well than expected. The Lyrans have had a relatively good 1SW by this point since they were mostly fighting the Mariks (who were distracted fighting the Capellans) and if any state could be said to be less maimed by the incessent raids on their factories it was the Lyrans. Against a weary and ground down DCMS (who lost the heart of their fleet at Cholame), the gains against the Lyrans might not be huge before everyone has to accept that they're too battered to keep going and the 1SW winds down.

Now the 2SW could be another matter...
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Ice Hellion

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2012, 02:41:05 PM »

I think I remember from the description of the Dervish in TRO 3025 that the DCMS was beginning to have logistical problems.

And if the DCMS shattered the Federated Suns, perhaps we could see a Taurian Concordat/Federated Suns alliance/State appear.

The remains of the Federated Suns are no longer a threat to the Draconis Combine and as such Minoru Kurita might ignore them.
On the other hand, they need supplies, to rebuild and such.
Would they go for House Liao? I doubt it but the Taurian Concordat could help their former worlds and conquer/subjugate/... the remains of the Federated Suns.

It wouldn't be that quick but this could be an idea.
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Rainbow 6

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2012, 04:19:59 PM »

If Minoru and the DCMS are taking the heart of the FedSuns the Davion Capellan front will collapse leading to the CCAF fighting the DCMS in the Crucis March.
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Knightmare

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2012, 02:06:01 PM »

If Minoru and the DCMS are taking the heart of the FedSuns the Davion Capellan front will collapse leading to the CCAF fighting the DCMS in the Crucis March.

I don't know if the Capellans could advance that far with the Mariks all over the Andurien border. The Federated Suns may or may not fracture if the nation's immediate heirs are killed and a fractured nobility sues for peace. You might see a Dark Age version of the Federated Suns occur, with some of the largest rump states dubious subjects of the Dragon. The rest, well...if they're not worth anything...might just be on their own.

Seeing it's only been roughly two centuries since they were lost (rather than five), I'm sure Taurian worlds lost during the Reunification War might actually become available for reconquest. If the FedSuns is in horrible shape, or even falling apart, it might be enough for the TC to give it a go.
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Rainbow 6

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2012, 03:16:54 PM »

Humm....

Didn't the Marik's go after the Terran worlds for the early/middle part of the 1st SW?
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Knightmare

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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2012, 08:38:24 PM »

Humm....

Didn't the Marik's go after the Terran worlds for the early/middle part of the 1st SW?

Yeah, but they also spent a good deal of time clashing with the Cappies.
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Re: First Lord Minoru Kurita?
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2012, 03:21:11 AM »

I thought that was mostly later though after they'd run out of good terran targets to go after?
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