Topic: Painted Into A Corner (Read 3427 times)

Blacknova · « **on:** June 15, 2012, 06:08:34 AM »

When pondering the aftermath of the Wars of Reaving, I started thinking that perhaps, despite the excellent nature of the book, that Mr. Rome may have limited the options for future writing on the Clan Homeworlds.

As it currently stands, the following is a rough estimate of the remaining Homeworld Clan's military strength:

Cloud Cobra - 23 Clusters and WarShips (22%)

Coyote - 11 Clusters and WarShips (11%)

Star Adder - 55 Clusters and WarShips (56%)

Stone Lion - 9 Clusters and WarShips (9%)

This balance of power would be analogous to an Inner Sphere after the First Succession War, where the Combine succeeded in taking over the Federated Suns and imposed an uneasy peace with the other powers.

This means that three Clans, two of which have a history of feuds and war, would need to cooperate in order to ensure there is no total Adder victory in the long run. So how does one redress this imbalance without too much hand wavium?

One possible avenue is a lone Adder strike on the Scorpions, perhaps with a little assistance from the others, in an attempt to shield the other three Clans from more losses, as per the new Adder outlook. A Scorpion victory over 3-4 Adder Galaxies with an allied Clan Galaxy (the Scorpions have 21 WarShips and Clusters and would be fighting on home ground), would drastically alter the balance of power.

What if, following such a victory, the Scorpions learn that there really are Wolverine decedents in Nueva Castille and mount a cleansing that makes Kentares look nice? Would such an action, fulfilling Kerensky's mandate and on the heals of a major victory, get them back from Abjuration? Would the three smaller Clans go for this as a way to further limit Adder power?

And what then? Take on the Hansa as a way to keep the troops happy and expand without the dangers of going back to the Inner Sphere? Would a return to the Inner Sphere ever be on the books or would the Homeworld Clans forever chart a new course. Would the Hellions eventually re-emerge from the Scorpions as a sixth Clan?

Anyway, just some thoughts, but does anyone see any other way to move the Homeworlds forwards in a meaningful and plausible way?

Apologise for any errors, as this was typed with my off hand whilst holding a sleeping baby.

Takiro · « **Reply #1 on:** June 15, 2012, 06:36:59 AM »

IMO the Homeworld Clans are now a Periphery Power with no possibility of impacting the InnerSphere ever again especially after their scientist caste took a major purging. Makes me think that their technological base could back slide ala the Succession Wars did to the Successor States.

Knightmare · « **Reply #2 on:** June 15, 2012, 07:03:43 AM »

How do you figure Tak? There's no indication that the Wars of Reaving impacted their data stores or information repositories. A Scientist Caste purge is only a temporary brain drain, the libraries are still intact.

The same can't be said for the Inner Sphere. How much advanced R&D was lost when the Blakists started purging their computer systems in the wake of the Jihad?

Incidentally, that's one way to slow new tech introduction. Another, a Sphere-wide peace.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #3 on:** June 15, 2012, 07:03:58 AM »

Although I can't see them sliding much further back I can see the Clan Homeworlds being more like a mass Blood Spirit Isolationism for the vast amounts of the future.

To be honest seeing the Star Adder's new strategy it only appears to go one way the Adders are happy to keep the others under their thumb but are willing to test their neighbours defences (which cost them a WarShip)

I was actually surprised the Coyotes were allowed to take a swipe at the Scorpions.

Unless Adder politics changes radically or it allows the others to work with them (if they even care) I can't see them in the Inner Sphere at all. More likely in the future I'd expect two settings - the Inner Sphere with the Republic and the Clan Homeworlds with the Hansa and Scorpions.

Maybe with separate books charting the various wars that have taken place. The IS Clans seem to have little interest in their Homeworlds Brethren and the Homeworlds Clans don't have the firepower to attack.

Gabriel · « **Reply #4 on:** June 15, 2012, 07:35:08 AM »

The Home Clans right now do not have the military strength to take on the IS Clans. They are I believe thinking that in only within a decade or less be ready to stage an invasion of the Sphere. They need to either increase the size of all their Toumans or make new Clans to take the place of the fallen.

Dread Moores · « **Reply #5 on:** June 15, 2012, 08:58:30 AM »

They're not a threat now, but they've shown an unusual amount of cooperation on rebuilding factories and reclaiming territory damaged during the WoR. Most importantly, we know nothing of what happens between now and any possible appearance until at least 3144. If they stay relatively at peace during that time, that's an awful lot of time to build up some more impressive forces.

Blacknova · « **Reply #6 on:** June 15, 2012, 06:14:06 PM »

I disagree with the point of making more new Clans. This does not make them more powerful, it makes them weaker through a duplication of effort, as you have the same population base, but more small enterprises instead of a few large ones.

Gabriel · « **Reply #7 on:** June 15, 2012, 06:17:21 PM »

That is true Blacknova but if they increase their population and like dread moores had stated in his post they might become formidable indeed.

Blacknova · « **Reply #8 on:** June 15, 2012, 06:25:35 PM »

We dont know what the Clan population is at the moment, but likely smaller than that of 3050 after the Reavings, much smaller. Rebuilding that population, even at a growth rate of 3%+, is going to take a long time.

Gabriel · « **Reply #9 on:** June 15, 2012, 06:32:51 PM »

Unfortunaly true unless they pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #10 on:** June 15, 2012, 06:38:13 PM »

maybe they will create a labourer caste phenotype increasing their population size artificially (unlikely but one idea)

Halvagor · « **Reply #11 on:** June 15, 2012, 06:41:47 PM »

You mean like by producing more children out of iron wombs?

Clan militaries will have to husband forces for a minimum of 15-20 years, until they can grow new sibkos to maturity. Civil populations are a different matter, since they tend to be freebirth. Requirements to have certain family sizes would, in another 20-30 years, go a long way towards restoring population size in general, so long as the technological infrastructure exists to support it. On the other hand, a predominantly young population (as would be created by a massive birth campaign among the non-Warrior castes) often leads to dissent and unrest in the population, which could force alterations in Clan society.

Knightmare · « **Reply #12 on:** June 15, 2012, 07:35:09 PM »

Funny you mention unrest Hal. We're already seeing unrest among the young Clan warriors of the homeworlds.

As for population, the homeworlds took a serious beating. According to WoR Supplemental when the Cobras dropped the smack down on Tanis they leveled a city of 500,000. The population numbers for one WHOLE planet in the Tanis system post-Reaving is less than half of that one city.

As for population growth, the homeworld Clans are limited to infrastructure and resources. With pre-Reaving homeworlds populations pretty low to begin with, the devastation of Reaving will make any growth extremely slow. The homeworld Clans are also pretty paranoid about "Taint", the Society and anything Reaving-related. So scientist matches among the lower castes will be closely scrutinized - perhaps more so in the face of harsh physical realities.

Takiro · « **Reply #13 on:** June 15, 2012, 11:16:38 PM »

Quote from: Knightmare on June 15, 2012, 07:03:43 AM

How do you figure Tak? There's no indication that the Wars of Reaving impacted their data stores or information repositories. A Scientist Caste purge is only a temporary brain drain, the libraries are still intact.

The same can't be said for the Inner Sphere. How much advanced R&D was lost when the Blakists started purging their computer systems in the wake of the Jihad?

Incidentally, that's one way to slow new tech introduction. Another, a Sphere-wide peace.

1. The Scientist Caste Purge. A large percentage of the Homeworld Clans think tank has been struck down. How much survived? A quarter? A fifth? Those who survived are gonna be on a tight leash in the future. Imagine trying to justify your research to people who don't trust you what so ever.

2. Collateral Damage. Prior to the War of Reaving this was something strictly avoided by the Clan combat doctrine. During the Reaving we see all sorts of sprawling damage all over the Homeworlds. Got to think a bunch of stuff got broken in the Society rebellion.

So while I agree there is no targeted Blakist Holy Shroud to fully regress them a high likely hood of stagnation lies ahead. That combined with a lack of resources and I can't see the Home Clans being much of a threat.

Knightmare · « **Reply #14 on:** June 15, 2012, 11:39:26 PM »

Have you read Wars of Reaving Supplemental? They're already innovating - using the advances made by the Society and studying others. Plus, the removal of subversive scientists only trimmed the fat, not removed them entirely. The loyalist scientists are fanatical about their Clan and are working closely with the Warrior Caste.

Way off on the whole tech stagnation bit bud. Sorry.

The real stumbling block for rapid expansion are resources. Additional material resources would allow for an expansion of the Clans' industrial base and equipment reserves, but Warriors would still take a lot of time to add. You simply can't rush the process without a decline in quality. Plus, there isn't a huge pre-existing population to pull from in a pinch - even if a Homeworld Clan wanted some Freebirth cannon fodder.

OBT Forum

News:

Author Topic: Painted Into A Corner (Read 3427 times)

Blacknova

Painted Into A Corner

Takiro

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Knightmare

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Dragon Cat

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Gabriel

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Dread Moores

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Blacknova

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Gabriel

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Blacknova

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Gabriel

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Dragon Cat

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Halvagor

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Knightmare

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Takiro

Re: Painted Into A Corner

Knightmare

Re: Painted Into A Corner