OBT Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to OurBattleTech.com - A BattleTech Fan Site

Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13   Go Down

Author Topic: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes  (Read 41222 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lrose

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #150 on: February 03, 2010, 09:18:11 AM »

Knightmare

Could have been a Regular SLDF Mechwarrior allowed to retire and take his 'Mech along for the ride, ala Level 1?
Could have been a defector to the Lyran Commonwealth but rejoined during the Liberation?
Could have been the son of an SLDF Mechwarrior who's father took the 'Mech illegally from the SLDF?
Could have been just about anything... Huh
Logged

lrose

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #151 on: February 03, 2010, 09:18:29 AM »

Takiro

Thanks for the spot Six. I was saving the Tamar Jaegers for later in the timeline. I just got the hardcopy for Christmas so I will have to take a look. It is a good book Irose that really looks through the history of BattleTech however it is pricey. 60 bucks for hardcopy. I believe it has some unique planetary info as well.
Logged

lrose

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #152 on: February 03, 2010, 09:18:47 AM »

Rainbow 6

Well in the story it refers to the Atlas as 'his' now i could be miss-reading that and he could have been assigned it when he deserted to the SLDF and was made a member of the 18th Volunteer Regiment.
Logged

lrose

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #153 on: February 03, 2010, 09:19:13 AM »

Takiro

Okay folks I've taken an in depth look at canon references for the Tamar Jaegers. Tactics of Betrayal really put it mark on Star League era combat organization as it reveals the existence of several units including the Jaegers. Take a look at its composition of an Amaris Division for example but more on that later I want to stay on target with the Jaegers. Now that the story refers only once to a Second Tamar Jaegers.

Now TRO 3026 also makes reference to a Tamar Jagers under the Pegasus Scout Hovertank. Under its deployment section it mentions that Kurita Pegasus crew successful infiltrated Tamar and witnesses the Jagers preparing for a massive assault. After discovering Steiner’s target, the planet Memmingen, the crew successfully informed its JumpShip of the Jagers’ strength and intended target. The transmission caused them to be captured and the Combine was prepared for the assault stationing three regiments on Memmingen. The Jagers took great losses before retreating back to the Commonwealth.

Finally CamoSpecs also refers to a Tamar Jagers. The Tamar Jagers are a relatively new unit, consisting of four regiments. Being founded beginning of the Third Succession War; this unit primarily recruits personnel from Tamar. Being mainly equipped with mechs in the medium weight class these regiments are between green and regular concerning the quality of their MechWarriors and are relatively well-equipped. The world of Tamar is the capital of the Tamar Pact since the Tamar-Brothers discovered and explored it in 2331. It is a big planet whose exceptional gravity demands some physical exertion from those life forms that are not born here. Even though abundant in minerals when the planet was first settled the easy to reach minerals close to the surface were completely exhausted by centuries of mining. The remaining minerals are hidden deep within the planet and would need complex technology to be mined and processed. This transformed Tamar from a resource planet into a huge trading world.

Based on the final two blurbs the Tamar Jaegers had been on my radar for the 3rd Succession War not the 1st. Long time ago I had some great discussions with Tokage on CBT who had created a great background for the unit which I was going to use. Basically years of Kurita aggression had provoked a brutal response aka the Tamar Jagers. These guys were out for blood and if you were a Snake watch out. Their attitude was based more on Nazi Germany then traditional Lyran Commonwealth values which gave Steiner a Bad Guy unit at least I felt. I'm currently looking for the file on this subject.

However the new Jaeger unit which does establish a thought pattern for TPTB messes up my plans. So what to do? Suggestions??
Logged

lrose

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #154 on: February 03, 2010, 09:19:31 AM »

Ice Hellion

Destroy them and recreate them later.
Logged

lrose

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #155 on: February 03, 2010, 09:19:49 AM »

Muttley

I agree- the negatives of their reputation could be overshadowed by the sheer bada$$ery of the unit death.
Logged

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,181
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #156 on: March 15, 2010, 09:58:25 PM »

Alright folks, back to this topic again to finally clear up the Tamar Jaegers issue. I've decided to add the unit to the LCAF pre-war.

Figure their creation date would be post Lyran Civil War after the Kelswas were installed as the rulers of Tamar which is prior to the Star League. Reason for this is the Jaeger name - which is very Steiner-ish and somewhat un-Tamar which had different cultural roots. Following the Steiner crackdown I figure the Lyrans want to build on the past martial excellence of Tamar which was arguably the best fighters of the original Commonwealth (see Hanbook HS which implies Tamar's warrior skill).

How successful the unit is at capturing this martial superiority is questionable given the need to insure its loyalty to House Steiner and the likely annihilation of Tamar's best original unit (whatever that premier formation was). The Jaegers probably pick up some bad habits and don't meet up to the ancient military traditions of Tamar. They would still despise House Kurita and even after the Lyrans best efforts to subjugate them disloyalty likely rebounds. See the Day of Rage which targeted Skye and Tamar troops. Perhaps the start of this downward loyalty sees the return of military skill.

Now the biggest question. How big is this formation in 2785? And since we determined the strength of all LCAF commands where can we take regiments from to supply this "new" formation?

Comments welcome!
Logged

lrose

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #157 on: March 15, 2010, 11:03:06 PM »

I like the idea that the Jaegers were raised to replace the original Tamar military (Tamar Hussars??).  I would think they are not as successful as the original unit, you are probably right that they favor loyalty over skill. 

As for where they come from - would take the bulk of the numbers from the Lyran Regulars, they were not a permanent organization at this point.  We can also take a few from the Arcturan Guard and the Donegal Guard. I would put the Jaegers at somewhere between 6 and 10 regiments.
Logged

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,181
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #158 on: March 16, 2010, 02:19:36 PM »

Not sure if the Hussars were the original unit of Tamar or one of two. I see another pre-Commonwealth formation providing the bulk of the Pact's ancient military. Have to see if I can find some American-Pakistani connection to the Tamars which we could draw upon.

Another aspect for the write up is the Jaegers relationship to the the Hussars who have recently been nationalized from the private army of Duke Kelswa. I'm leaning towards the pre-madonna view.

Founding date for the Jaegers is no doubt after 2506 the conclusion of the Lyran Civil War.

This limits their battlefield history to the late stages of the Age of War but leaves plenty of space for participation in the Reunification War, the Hidden Wars, the Amaris Coup (which I'd like to include some defections for the Loyalist cause see Tactics of Betrayal), and of course what have they been up to more recently.

Also has their been any expansion of note over the years - what size did they begin at? I'd like to start with 4 regiments given their past canon references.

Finally I'm really liking the whole "Focused Aggression" angle of the Jaegers that is developing. Realizing that the people of Tamar might always be hostile to the Steiners this anger could be put to good use. Hatred of the Draconis Combine and even the Rim Worlds would be encouraged by recruiting practices, training methods, extensive propaganda, along with other innovative efforts. Kurita and Amaris could be made into easy scape goats by the Archons who encourage said behavior as a way to distract against domestic discontent. Second only to their dislike of the Dragon is the former RWR whose homelands they now help occupy. I would think their brutal/ruthless reputation may have carried over from the Combine to here. Ill will from the Reunification War/ Amaris Coup might have the Rimmers another focus of the Jaegers anger.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 04:03:18 PM by Takiro »
Logged

Ice Hellion

  • Protector of the Taurian Concordat
  • KU Player
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,483
  • Beware of the all-seeing eye: Ice Hellion
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #159 on: March 16, 2010, 05:18:44 PM »

If I understand what you said, the Tamar Jaegers are "new" regiments made after the initial Tamar regiments were destroyed.
They focus more on loyalty to House Steiner than on warrior skills.

And then you want them via the proper propaganda to be a recipient for anti Draconis and RWR feelings?

I have troubles with the last part especially with the loyalty to House Steiner.

What I can imagine is as follow (perhaps this is what you wanted to say):
- the founding times: loyalty to House Steiner above all
- evolution as the Archons find that the Tamar people will will not be broken => focus on ruthless efficiently against the Draconis Combine (equal or worst than the Draconis Combine soldiers) and propaganda against the Draconis Combine aimed at the Tamar people.
This should lead to two things: an increase in recruitments and the most active pro Tamar people using their energy for the Lyran Commonwealth good.
Logged


"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,181
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #160 on: March 17, 2010, 04:14:18 PM »

Correct Ice, they aren't so much focused on loyalty to House Steiner but against its enemies. I'm actually thinking they might have given the SLDF a lot of trouble during the Golden Age thanks to its aggressive attitudes. But what you say is right. Loyalty to Steiners might have won out over time but the Day of Rage alienates Tamarians once and for all. The only thing that is left is to give them a scape goat - Steiner's enemies.

Having trouble finding the numbers for this formation as many units have already been locked in for good reason. The only one that I could see surrendering some regiments would be the Skye Rangers. Royal Guard, Lyran Guard, Lyran Regulars, Donegal Guard, Tamar Hussars, and Arcturan Guard are all locked in for me as is our 122 regiments overall. Suggestions?

LCAF (122 regiments)
Royal Guards (4 regiments)
Lyran Guard (50 regiments)
Arcturan Guards (20 regiments)
Donegal Guards (20 regiments)
Lyran Regulars (12 regiments)
Skye Rangers (15 regiments)
Tamar Hussars (1 regiment)
Logged

Ice Hellion

  • Protector of the Taurian Concordat
  • KU Player
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,483
  • Beware of the all-seeing eye: Ice Hellion
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #161 on: March 17, 2010, 04:18:33 PM »

1 seems a bit low.
2-3 would be more adequate (at least this is my feeling).
Logged


"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
in trial against the Ice Hellion's mettle.
Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
All failed to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Rainbow 6

  • KU Player
  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,994
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #162 on: March 17, 2010, 06:37:29 PM »

I'd say cut 3 from the Skye Rangers.
Logged

lrose

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,664
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #163 on: March 17, 2010, 08:01:09 PM »

Unless I am forgetting something I don't see why we can't cut a few Lyran Regulars- they were only an ad-hoc group.
Logged

Takiro

  • General
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,181
  • For the Last Cameron!
Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #164 on: March 17, 2010, 08:31:01 PM »

Ice the Tamar Hussars (aka the Tamar Tigers) are a single regiment and that is already set. We could discuss the possibility that this unit was not yet considered line at the time of this report freeing a single regiment for other use. Just floating the idea - I really don't like it though.

First of all guys I'd go with a bare minimum of 4 regiments for the Tamar Jaegers but lets take a look at Irose's nominee for cuts - the Lyran Regulars.

Quote
Lyran Regulars (12 regiments)
Overview: As the Star League gradually disintegrated a need within the LCAF was recognized by the High Command. The usefulness of unconventional forces was becoming apparent as the 28th century wore on. Assembling an ad hoc brigade named the Lyran Regulars from less than traditional sources was their solution. These scoundrels without proper pedigree drew the ire of the Commonwealth’s military establishment who considered them mercenaries at best. During the Hidden Wars they drew difficult assignments which were undertaken without support. Heavily influenced by the SLDF the Regulars used a mixture of arms to achieve battlefield success. This in turn has won them a measure of respect from the Lyran authorities who still have trouble crediting these inferior troops.
Originally two separate divisions (1st, 2nd, 3rd and 11th, 12th, 13th) which included BattleMechs, armor, and infantry were created to mirror each other. Using time honored techniques of misdirection and stealth these units effectively camouflaged themselves sometimes even as Lyran Guards. In addition to a mirrored deployment system which often plays with the Regulars numerical designations, units frequently suffer high casualty rates thanks to their dangerous assignments which require constant reorganization. This created a further patchwork which foreign intelligence agencies still have trouble deciphering. As a result the location, strengths, and identities of the Lyran Regulars are a challenging group to keep track of at all times.
Recently the Lyran Regulars have doubled in size and there are future plans for further expansion. This growth caused by the addition of Star League and Rim Republic veterans has allowed them to field 12 BattleMech regiments supported by conventional forces. By pairing these new units in much the same fashion as the original formations the Regulars have managed to retain their mirrored deployment system. Many fear that this organizational feature may be in jeopardy thanks to the speed of future enlargement in an uncertain time. Unfortunately the maintenance needs for these work horse units have not been met by the High Command. As a result some of their high tech equipment has already fallen into disrepair.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 1st Lyran Regulars (The Boomers), 2nd Lyran Regulars (?), 3rd Lyran Regulars (The Bee Squishers? – this nickname has no specific date so we could use it), 4th Lyran Regulars (Tropic Lightning – remnants of SLDF 68th Infantry aka the Thai Militia), 6th Lyran Regulars (The Odessa Regulars – remnants of SLDF 63rd Mechanized Infantry Division, possible ties to the Terrans who wish to safeguard hidden SL facility , if the Odessa Regulars are keeping the secret for the Star League and were on planet at the start of the succession war then they could have been in and around the planetary capital which was nuked by a DCMS task force from orbit according to the Archers Avengers novel set on Odessa, taking there secret to their graves), 10th Lyran Regulars (The Stinging Barflies – remnants of SLDF 18th Infantry Division who interestingly enough were based in the RWR), 11th Lyran Regulars (The Hammers), 12th Lyran Regulars (?), 13th Lyran Regulars (?), 14th Lyran Regulars (The Sakhalin Regulars - remnants of SLDF 101st Mechanized Infantry Division who were stationed in the CC, so I was thinking about a possible tie in with the Capellan Sakhalin), 16th Lyran Regulars (The Apache Division - remnants of SLDF 368th BattleMech Division), 20th Lyran Regulars (The York Regulars – Star League Loyalist Regiment)
Future Units: 5th Lyran Regulars (Ferris Wolverines – see Merc Guild and canon ComStar ruling), 7th Lyran Regulars (New Delhi Lancers or Fighting Seventh – formed early in the canon 1st SW), 8th Lyran Regulars (Mad Hatters – formed early in the canon 1st SW), 9th Lyran Regulars (Karilon Magicians – Mechwarrior Brotherhood from the RWR joined LC during canon 1st SW) [obviously since these formations came into being during the extreme duress of the SW a dedicated mirror unit will not be made]
   (2nd) Double Dealers and (12th) Boxcars

So there you have it. The existing canon units, mirrored deployment, and SLDF additions all fit nicely. I'd really hate to make any cut. Just can't see any easy cuts. If you could reasonably do it - it would drop two units at a time. Again I don't like this..

The Skye Rangers on the other hand lack individual unit specifics.

Quote
Skye Rangers (15 regiments)
Overview: The Skye Rangers are survivors whose origins date back to the turn of the twentieth fourth century. Originally the army of the Federation of Skye this unit has compiled hundreds of years of military traditions. Over this time these brave warriors have squared off against forces from the Draconis Combine, the Free Worlds League, and even the Terran Hegemony with a good deal of success. Prior to the 2370s relations between Skye and Terra had been cool at best thanks the Mother Doctrine and the Symra Ambush. That began to change when Lord Raymond the fourth Director-General of the Hegemony married Katherine McQuiston. The couple was soon involved in a scandal when a neglected Katherine turned to Raymond’s brother Brian for attention. The affair was discovered shortly before Raymond’s death nearly ended the Cameron dynasty and hopes for renewed ties. However, Brian Cameron beat the charges and became the fifth Director. In 2399 he married Katherine McQuiston and ties between the Hegemony and Skye have been close ever since.
Their adversaries have not been confined to foreign nationals but also include domestic opponents. When Robert Marsden staged a military coup in 2375 to seize control of the Commonwealth most of the Rangers backed him. Marsden had built many contacts within the Skye Rangers since the establishment of the Lyran Commonwealth. They formed a core of an army loyal to him while a few Rangers futility resisted on Skye this long overdue move towards order. Afterwards the Rangers were rebuilt by a grateful Archon Basileus although some accuse “the Crusher” of playing politics. Restoring the Rangers as a public relations move to try and foster good will on Skye. In 2471 Archon Michael Steiner married Regina McQuiston, last of the McQuiston line, which helped tie Skye and its Rangers to House Steiner. The Lyran Civil War which began in 2501 and lasted to 2505 split the contingent in much the same way. Thanks to the backing of these loyal Skye Rangers the Archon managed to defeat his opponents once again. As a result Robert Steiner spared the unit from complete dissolution a fate which befell Tamar’s army who had a well deserved martial reputation. 
House Lestrade was awarded title to Skye following the Civil War by Archon Robert Steiner for loyal service. While the Duke's Own Huscarls, an infantry unit, serve as the Duke of Skye's personal guard the Skye Rangers have formed a close bond with their new liege. Their unconditional fidelity to House Steiner would be tested in 2591 by the ‘Day of Rage’. This unjust attack by Archon Viola Steiner upon her own people during the Reunification War has strained relations between the unit and the Archon since. In 2643 the Decentralist Movement, which had widespread support in Skye, nearly dissolved the Commonwealth. Many Skye Rangers left the LCAF to serve General Kerensky during the Amaris Coup and sympathies to the Last Cameron remain to this day. Despite these feelings the Rangers remain a major bulwark of the Lyran military.
Inspiration: Established canon formation, see HSSB and FM LA
Child Units: 3rd Skye Rangers, 4th Skye Rangers, 10th Skye Rangers, 25th Skye Rangers, plus eleven (11) more commands which are not in numerical order (not the 17th or 22nd).

We can make cuts here and not miss anything IMO. The Lyrans would have a reason to keep both formations low in overall strength. Granted this isn't ideal but... ???
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13   Go Up