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Author Topic: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes  (Read 41217 times)

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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2010, 07:53:51 AM »
Takiro

Well don't forget that Civil War were Reynolds saved Steiner from certain death on Tamar. Plus when Marsden seized control of the Commonwealth from the other 8 Archons. Certainly there has been an erosion of Tamar military presence as a result. Likely to the harm of the LCAF skill.

The Lyran Guard is shaping up as almost a National Guard formation in my eye. They are the bulk of the LCAF obviously which draws similarities to the Marik Militia but on a larger scale obviously. Even with a reduction in size they are still much larger than any House force I can remember. No still haven't checked. Just as a special note, the Hesperus Guard got me thinking. Weren't there always two Lyran Guard units always garrisoning Hesperus? I'll look in MW2 RPG book.

I could still go higher on the number of Lyran Regulars. The numbers are all over the place but I'm getting a handle on it gradually. First I'm tracking down Regulars that existed prior to the disintegration of the SLDF. Then we add the 6 SLDF units. One will cover the Odessa Regulars linked to the secret unknown you know what possibly, the York Regulars I'd like to make a former Loyalist Regiment that returned. Any ideas for Sakahalin Regulars? So we might end up with more than 10 Regulars but not much more.

Royal Guards will be four regiments and there will be just a single Tamar Hussars, BattleMech wise anyway.

One thing that might limit the size of the Arcturan Guard is the native personnel requirement. A quarter of the unit must come from Arcturus, so being 20 regiments strong means 5 regiments would be from the homeworld. Is that reasonable?? Plus I like their link to Tamar.

Skye Rangers should be smaller but 10 regiments? Hmm, not sure. That would leave a ton of Lyran Guards.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2010, 07:54:21 AM »
FirstStarLord

I always understood the meaning of the line on recruitment for the Arcturan Guards to be that within each regiment 25% of the personnel had to be from Arcturus. Also, it does seem that the AG has a close relationship with Tamar. Perhaps they form the bulk of the battlemech garrison for the Pact during this period?
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2010, 07:54:52 AM »
Takiro

Yeah that is what we were thinking on the Tamar - Arcturus Guard relationship. The Lyran Guard has representatives and contigents from every corner of the Commonwealth.

You are correct again 25% in each regiment but if you take 20 regiments for example that is roughly 5 regiments from just Arcturus alone spread throughout of course. Essentially it is a numbers game that I'm asking you to say what is realistic or BT appropraite for that number to be.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2010, 07:55:18 AM »
FirstStarLord

Well it seems like Arcturus's main industry is providing cannon fodder for the LCAF, so it's not that unreasonable. I mean, Northwind supported six regiments of mechs plus support troops during this era, and New Hessen was able to raise three at the tail-end of the Succession Wars, so it's not unheard of for one world to provide a large contingent of troops.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2010, 07:55:45 AM »
Quote from: Takiro on July 10, 2009, 03:28:13 AM
Yeah that is what we were thinking on the Tamar - Arcturus Guard relationship. The Lyran Guard has representatives and contigents from every corner of the Commonwealth.

You are correct again 25% in each regiment but if you take 20 regiments for example that is roughly 5 regiments from just Arcturus alone spread throughout of course. Essentially it is a numbers game that I'm asking you to say what is realistic or BT appropraite for that number to be.

In HBHS Arcturus has a population of a little over 1 billion people and the entry notes that the planet is covered with cities builtt for a population far in excess of that number- 5 regiments is nothing- maybe a few thousand people- even if on 1/10 of 1% of the population joined the military you are looking at about 1 million soldiers just from Arcturus.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2010, 07:56:04 AM »
Takiro

What you say makes real world sense Irose but FirstStarLord's example of Northwind is a better BattleTech comparison. If Northwind equaled Arcturus in regards to commitment (6 regiments) the LCAF could have a 24 BattleMech Regiment contingent out of the Guard. As you note the planet was far larger population wise especially during the Star League era and is far safer at the time as well. Not sure what the population would be at this time but here is a thought as well. With available housing Arcturus is ideal for refugees from the Hegemony or the Lyran border which could swell the populace and number of Guards. Bottom line what do you think a good number for native Arcturans would be? We could do 6 regiments total for a total of 24. This is larger than Donegal but it does have national ties plus strong Tamar support. I like how they are shaping up.  Wink

Now for the Lyran Regulars. The whole organization seems kind of new for this time period. Could their ad hoc nature mean they were born from the Hidden War? Also there seems to be two separate formations. I think the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th could have existed at the time of the 1st Succession War as well as the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th. Perhaps this is a Steiner effort to disguise and hide units?? Have to think of a reason for the numerical separation. Now after we determine that we can add our SLDF returnees 6 regiments more, so we can go higher than ten which I favor.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2010, 07:56:25 AM »
Rainbow 6

All sounds good, had a thought about how the LCAF didn't know about the Odessa systems secret, if the Odessa Regulars are keeping the secret for the Star League and were on planet at the start of the succession war then they could have been in and around the planetary capital which was nuked by a DCMS task force from orbit according to the Archers Avengers novel set on Odessa, taking there secret to their graves.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2010, 07:56:46 AM »
LordGrayson

Quote from: Takiro on July 10, 2009, 10:34:23 AM
What you say makes real world sense Irose but FirstStarLord's example of Northwind is a better BattleTech comparison. If Northwind equaled Arcturus in regards to commitment (6 regiments) the LCAF could have a 24 BattleMech Regiment contingent out of the Guard. As you note the planet was far larger population wise especially during the Star League era and is far safer at the time as well. Not sure what the population would be at this time but here is a thought as well. With available housing Arcturus is ideal for refugees from the Hegemony or the Lyran border which could swell the populace and number of Guards. Bottom line what do you think a good number for native Arcturans would be? We could do 6 regiments total for a total of 24. This is larger than Donegal but it does have national ties plus strong Tamar support. I like how they are shaping up.  Wink

Now for the Lyran Regulars. The whole organization seems kind of new for this time period. Could their ad hoc nature mean they were born from the Hidden War? Also there seems to be two separate formations. I think the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th could have existed at the time of the 1st Succession War as well as the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th. Perhaps this is a Steiner effort to disguise and hide units?? Have to think of a reason for the numerical separation. Now after we determine that we can add our SLDF returnees 6 regiments more, so we can go higher than ten which I favor.

 The Lyran Regular's strike me as a formation made between the time LC command believes the Star League is done and they notice they are lacking in unit's and pretty much accept anyone able and willing into this formation to be a more or less a stop gap. As for the numbering of regular's units they could of handed out or sold ( this is the Lyran's after all) the regimental permits to said people and not all of the numbered permits that where given/sold got formed up.( Say 10 regiment permits where sold but only 7 regiments ended up actually forming 1st , 3rd , 4th , 5th , 8th, 9th , 10th ) Also think if ur going to add units its going to be in the form of Lyran Regulars and Lyran Guards. The Lyran Guard's was stated in one of the source books as being the largest guard formation ever in the inner sphere and as for the Lyran Regular's they are just easy to form up because they would just use whoever was at hand to form the unit as the LCAF's command most likly views the unit as cannon folder for its lyran guard at this time.
 O on a side note I do believe the 5th Royal Guard is just a unit assigned to guard the archon's palace and isn't really a guard regiment as the other 4 regiments are.( more like a honor guard then a true guard regiment)
 In reguards to Northwind , The highlanders never had to actually support 6 regiments on the planet with 4 of them hired out to liao u could say that Northwind supported 2 regiments and that the other 4 got supported by there employer in that case liao( who actually gave the highlanders thier first mechs?) but as in the case with Arcturus Guard the highlanders do allow outsiders to help fill in there numbers and I think any planet would be able to find six regiments of mech warriors thats only like 648 mechs.( the mech's on the other hand might be another ? Smiley )
 
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2010, 07:57:07 AM »
Takiro

Good thoughts guys. Finally did some research on military comparisons thus far and this is what I’ve found.

Number of Contingents
AFFS – 37 (5 Commands; National Training, Regional, Independent, March Militia)
CCAF – 14 (2 Forces; Confederation and Commonalty)
DCMS – 15 (5 Divisions; Draconis Guards, Mobile Warfare, Cadet Corps, District Regulars, Draconis Militia)
FWLM – 17 (2 Forces; Federal and Provincial)
LCAF – 7 (0, what about their divisions? Lyran Guard and everyone else)
TRAS – 15 (2 Divisions, Provincial Guards and Terran Regulars)

Largest BattleMech Contingent
AFFS – Avalon Hussars (26 regiments)
CCAF – Sian Commonalty Guard (19 regiments)
DCMS – Galedon, Benjamin, or Rasalhague Regulars (21 regiments)
FWLM – Marik Militia (28 regiments)
LCAF – Lyran Guard (?)
TRAS – any Provincial Guard (9 regiments)
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2010, 07:57:28 AM »
Rainbow 6

I would say the LCAF has two divisions, National (Royal Guard, Lyran Guard, Lyran Regulars, Arcturan Guard?) and Regional (Donegal Guard, Skye Rangers, Tamar Hussars).

Not 100% sure where the Arcturan Guards should be.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2010, 07:57:51 AM »
Hessian

Quote from: lrose on July 05, 2009, 11:12:12 PM
The Lyran Guard have 41 non mech regiments that use the name Lyran. On the other hand the LG were formed shortly after the formation of the LC as an elite force composed of the best and brighest of the LC.  Interesting the line in FM:LA is:
At their most powerful, the Lyran Guards numbered almost 60 regiments, but today only 10 remain. (p. 74)  As the 10 represent the existing mech regiments I would be inclined to say the 60 is also referring to mech regiments.

When you look at the numbers for the other formations having about 60 Lyran Guards would work and we would not need to make up many formations-
say 55 Lyran Guards, 20 Donegal Guards, 4 Royal Guards, 15 Skye Rangers, 20 Arcturan Guard and 8 Lyran Regulars give us 122 mech regiments.

I agree with Irose's analysis here. On both accounts.
While I understand that nearly sixty 'Mech regiments is unusually high I think that there are always exceptions to a rule. Furthermore I think some variation between the Great Houses should occur. In this case that one of the Great Houses has fewer formations but at least one of this formations is unusually large.

Quote from: Takiro on July 10, 2009, 02:33:57 AM
Royal Guards will be four regiments and there will be just a single Tamar Hussars, BattleMech wise anyway.

I think this is the right decision.

Quote from: Takiro on July 10, 2009, 02:33:57 AM
One thing that might limit the size of the Arcturan Guard is the native personnel requirement. A quarter of the unit must come from Arcturus, so being 20 regiments strong means 5 regiments would be from the homeworld. Is that reasonable?? Plus I like their link to Tamar.

In my opinion it is reasonable, given that per the description in HB:HS Arcturus has still a population of ca. 1 billion despite being a shadow of its former self. Also this description informs us that Arcturan men and women are frequently found in in the ranks of the Lyran infantry forces.

Quote from: Takiro on July 10, 2009, 02:33:57 AM
Skye Rangers should be smaller but 10 regiments? Hmm, not sure. That would leave a ton of Lyran Guards.

For the Skye Rangers I would suggest a number of fifteen to twenty regiments, because in 2785 the Lyran Commonwealth as a whole and especially the Federation of Skye were much larger according to the maps in HB:HS on p. 25, 36 as well as Takiro's own map of the Human Sphere 2785

Just my two € cents...

Ciao
Hessian
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2010, 07:58:10 AM »
Takiro

Okay for the Lyran Regulars, this is what I've got. Six Mech regiments numbered 1st, 2nd, and 3rd with mirror formations in the 11th, 12th, and 13th. Numbers game played to confuse intel analysis and provide secret or hidden strength for the LCAF. Add six regiments to their strength with SLDF loyalists making a grand total of 12 as of 2785.

The Arcturan Guards look good at 20 regiments because some of their 21+ numbers look like new units.

So with the Skye Rangers at a strength of 15 regiments I've worked up some numbers that I think fit nicely.

LCAF (122 regiments)
Arcturan Guards (20 regiments)
Donegal Guards (20 regiments)
Lyran Guard (50 regiments)
Lyran Regulars (12 regiments)
Royal Guards (4 regiments)
Skye Rangers (15 regiments)
Tamar Hussars (1 regiment)
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2010, 07:58:28 AM »
Rainbow 6

Those numbers sound good too me.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2010, 07:58:52 AM »
Takiro

Okay so if the numbers are good then how about military academies circa 2785.
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lrose

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Re: Threat Assessments 2785 Notes
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2010, 07:59:12 AM »
Rainbow 6

Right i'm at work and going off memory here but here goes:-

The Nagelring on Tharkad and The Sanglamore on Skye, both of which were built for and staffed by the SLDF, the instructors chose to stay behind when Kerensky left like the FedSuns NAMA.

Coventry Academy, Royal New Capetown, Tamar Academy of War & Pandora Military Academy which all train mechwarriors & ground forces plus aero pilots at the last two.

Somerset Academy which i assume is a former Rim Worlds Academy captured by the LCAF.

The main missing item is a Naval Academy as the Lyrans used Thorin but in the BTSD universe its still Terran. I'd suggest building one at New Kyoto as there was a large Lyran shipyard there.
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