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Author Topic: Optimizing the UrbanMech  (Read 9319 times)

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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2019, 10:12:19 PM »

Thanks Irose, very good comments which I will take into account when judging this contest. Love to hear from others especially Abele on the UrbanMech's speed - what is too fast??

Less than two hours remaining for design entries!!
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2019, 12:57:39 AM »

One of the problems I have is making mechs unique. If you increase the speed of an urbanmech to 6/9/6 isn’t that just a funny looking javelin?

I do agree.
Each 'Mech fulfils a certain role and now that the Houses have access to more production capacities, why send an UrbanMech to do the job of a Spider?
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"In turn they tested each Clan namesake
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Each chased the Ice Hellion, hunting it down.
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Khan Cage smiled and said, "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2019, 01:41:57 AM »

Ok folks, pencils down, this contest is over. No more entries please.

Thanks for the comments Ice. Still love to hear more about the Urbies speed from others, so keep that coming.
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Abele

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2019, 08:00:39 AM »




 Did you see my post asking for your comments on UrbanMechs posted here?
Less than six hours remaining in this contest!!
I did, but I'm limited to the using the comp at work and I just don't have that much time to peruse and comment.

Overall, I see stuff that I would or could have done. I do agree with lrose in that an Urbie should never go faster than 4/6/4 as there are already 30-tonners that go 5/8/# and faster. I do like the energy based loadouts as it gives the player more options in how to use an Urbie. The AC/20 Urbie should never have been made. I've got a lot of Jihad-era Urbies lying around somewhere, but they just  fit in this timeline (yet).
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Bradshaw

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2019, 08:56:06 AM »

I find it comical imagining the urbanmech running around at 96 kilometers per hour. I totally agree with the speed restrictions and a hidden benefit is you get to avoid skidding
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muttley

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2019, 03:52:29 PM »

Nice upgrades.  Thanks for sharing.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2019, 04:00:24 PM »

Hey great seeing you Mutt! Where you been? Any thoughts on the UrbanMech? I am getting opinions on what is too fast for the Urbie now and judging all 26 of these fine entries for winners which will be incorporated into my Salient Horizon setting.

Thanks for the comments Abele and Bradshaw. It seems that the community is pretty uniformly behind a 4/6/4 movement cap here.

As I said the process has begun but I may interrupt it slightly to get the next challenge up.
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muttley

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2019, 06:00:19 PM »

I agree with the 4/6/4 too.  Real life has been kicking my butt.

I started my 8 year old twin sons on BattleTech.  I don't play heat for them and I'm pretty careful to balance the fights but they both have a killer instinct so its going well.
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2019, 09:04:48 PM »

I hear ya there bud. I never seem to have enough time. Glad to hear your growing the game. ;) Thanks for the input!
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #54 on: December 01, 2019, 08:26:46 AM »

With seven different designers putting forth twenty six (7 Irose, 2 Takiro, 1 masterarminas, 11 Bradshaw, 2 drakensis, 2 Ice Hellion, 1 Abele) entries we had plenty of Urbie concepts but there could have been even more. I didn't get a chance to write out my Lyran built UrbanMech featuring EndoSteel and armed with a Gauss which would have been a proof of concept design for the Hollander, drats! Well I sure hope there is a ComGuard variant out there considering it is one of the Mechs that they rode to victory at Tukayyid. Thanks to everyone's input I've established a Retroactive Speed Cap (4/6/4) which alters the original design criteria. I do agree that a faster UrbanMech losses a certain inherent character trait should always remain. So, with no further ado let's get to the evaluation.

DISQUALIFIED

26. UM-C58 (Takiro)
My UrbanMech concept which was proceeded by an even faster model was ultimately found to be too fast. This ComStar anti-Clan refit which used Commando or Valkyrie engine to gain new found 5/8/5 movement while its main weapon also qualified for my Large Pulse challenge. Backed up by a Medium Laser it also had Double Heat Sinks which helped keep it cool along with six tons of Ferro-Fibrous (105) for max protection. Oh well, back to the drawing board for me.

25. UR-70D (Bradshaw)
This death by paper cuts Urbie with four Medium Lasers and eight Small Lasers is cooled by Double Heat Sinks and protected by six tons of Ferro-Fibrous (105) for max armor. Not bad and the fluff about the Corean legal battle is a decent hook. Unfortunately at 5/8/5 it is too fast now so has to be disqualified, sorry bud.

24. UR-EW2 (Bradshaw)
A bit more conventional with a Large Laser, SRM-4 (25), and Small Pulse as it's punch with four and half tons of Ferro-Fibrous (80) with a CASE to safeguard against ammo explosions. Double Heat Sinks cool everything but at 5/8/5 this entry is too fast and must be disqualified, sorry again.

DEFICIENT

23. UM-R62 (Bradshaw)
Holy Pulses Batman, this is a Liao variant thanks to technologies from their Marik alliance. A dozen Double Heat Sinks do effectively cool the design while six and a half tons of armor provide near max protection (104). While accurate four Medium Pulses and four Small Pulses lack range while its 2/3/2 speed is horrendously slow. This resulting short armed Urbie could threaten foot infantry but little else as I doubt it could close to effective combat reach.

22. UR-EW1 (Bradshaw)
This faster (4/6/4) Earthwerks point defense attacker is frustratingly good but at the same time bad. Love the speed upgrade but eighteen Small Lasers and a Flamer are far too tight ranged (3!). If only you presented your Medium Laser Hunchback variant inspired arsenal here. Six tons of armor (96) and Double Heat Sinks are solid but the reach is too small.

21. UM-M60 (Bradshaw)
I wish this 2/3/2 concept from an old Hunchback variant by way of the Free Worlds League was faster. Eight Medium Lasers and the TAG have better reach while the Guardian ECM Suite gives you some stealth. Fourteen Double Heat Sinks and tons of armor (96) are fine but it is still too slow. Combining this approach with your faster Small Laser variant before could have produced far better results.

20. UM-R83 (Irose)
I really liked the fluff for this secret counterinsurgency refit fielded by some agency of the Draconis Combine on Gator III. However, as my review progressed this slow 2/3/2 with six tons of armor (96) and cooled by eleven Single Heat Sinks has very short ranged weaponry. Two Medium Pulses, two SRM-2s (50), four Machine Guns (200), and Flamer are great against infantry but incredibly short ranged. Despite a Beagle Active Probe and C3 Slave this model seems like a lumbering luxury.

19. UM-R65T (Irose)
This Taurian refit of cached Star League era purchased Mechs in response to the Davion threat was well written but too slow (2/3/2) and close ranged with four SRM-6s (30) and a Small Laser. The six tons of armor (96)and Double Heat Sinks aren't bad but that combat reach is lacking in my opinion.

18. UM-D01 (Bradshaw)
Much like the other 2/3/2 Urbie's with short to mid range arsenals this four SRM-4s (50), Medium Laser, and Small Laser has limited combat reach. I will say that the Guardian ECM Suite gives you a bit of stealth along with max protection from six and a half tons of armor (104) plus CASEs in both torsos. Double Heat Sinks also provide excellent cooling for this Capellan March variant but it was too short armed for me.

17. UM-R70 (Irose)
The top of this category sees another painfully slow 2/3/2 but unlike other Urbies here has one big gun. This is a key component of the UrbanMech to me - yeah she is slow but it can end anyone with one good shot. It's base AC/10 can breach the head of any 'Mech and has a range of 15 hexes. Here Irose uses common parts with Spider and Vulcan to create a FWLM Pulse variant. Made by Nimakachi on Tematagi it features Double Heat Sinks and six tons of Ferro-Fibrous (105, max) as well as a Large Pulse, 2 Medium Pulses, 2 Machine Guns (100), and a Flamer. The Large Pulse is just a little below range (10 long) and damage (9) of what I am looking for here. The accuracy of such attacks is certainly a plus and if it was slightly faster perhaps I say yes. Almost but not quite.

PASSABLE

16. UM-R70L (Bradshaw)
This Liao infantry killer armed with two Medium Lasers, six Machine Guns (200), three Flamers, and two Small Lasers is a bit too short range but I am liking that 3/5/3 movement. Six tons of armor (96) and two CASEs are ample protection while Double Heat Sinks cool everything nicely. Not a winner but passable in my opinion.

15. UR-70K 'the Ice Box' (Bradshaw)
Same reasoning for this Kurita follow on force which is similar but a little different from your last reviewed configuration. Two SRM-4s (25), two Medium Lasers, Small Laser, and four Vehicle Flamers (40) have a little more range. Like the 3/5/3 movement and the six tons of armor (96) with two CASEs together with Double Heat Sinks to cool it. Not bad, just others were better.

14. UM-M70 (Bradshaw)
Produced by Hellespont Industries presumably on Betelgeuse and funded by the FWLM this 3/5/3 Urbie goes with a Large Pulse and two Medium Pulses for its weaponry. A Beagle Active Probe helps find enemies that your very accurate Pulses can cut down while the whole thing is cooled by Double Heat Sinks. Six tons of armor (96) provides solid protection but again there were others that were better.

13. UM-R60BLC (Abele)
The Blazer and the UrbanMech were a natural fit in my opinion as it had the same range as the AC/10 with more punch. It will take your head clean off if I can borrow from Dirty Harry. This Free Worlds League simple refit has a Medium Laser, fourteen Single Heat Sinks, and 6.5 tons of armor (104). All good but I would have liked faster than 2/3/2 movement which is why this entry is ranked here.

12. UM-R630L (Ice Hellion)
The finest 3/5/3 Large Pulse armed Urbie was this entry from Ice Hellion. This well justified Capellan fluffed Mech was also equipped with a Medium Laser, Medium Pulse, Guardian ECM Suite and Beagle Active Probe. Solid firepower and superior electronics which were helped by five and a halftons of Ferro-Fibrous (98). Not bad at all but I was hoping for something even faster.

11. UM-R64 (masterarminas)
This Capellan upgrade made at Betelgeuse went 3/5/3 had five and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous (98), a Blazer, a Medium Pulse, a Small Pulse, and eleven Double Heat Sinks. Very nice job on speed, primary weapon, and armor protection perhaps the secondary weaponry could have a longer reach but in the end I just thought others were better.

NEAR MISSES

10. UM-R631L (Ice Hellion)
The best Capellan Blazer armed 3/5/3 design in my opinion featured a Guardian ECM Suite which granted a nasty surprise factor. Rounded out by five and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous (98), a Small Pulse, and Beagle Active Probe this design wasn't bad at all. Good fluff too but unfortunately there was a Liao concept I liked even better.

9. UM-R69K (drakensis)
This Kurita mobile defense turret is an interesting concept despite it slow
2/3/2 movement. Essentially a Gauss Rifle (8 reloads) with legs this war machine would likely augment static defenses. Well protected by five and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous (98) and sufficiently cooled by ten Single Heat Sinks this powerful one trick pony would need an EndoSteel refit to work. While plausible especially the way it is written it just fell a bit short to me as too much trouble for its worth.

WINNERS

8. UM-RD (Irose)
Violating my design criteria with no jumps and being the absolute slowest moving Mech I've ever seen is this damn good concept. Based on a canon variant this stop gap measure to reinforce the Draconis March by Duke Sandoval creates a Light Artillery Urbie. 'The Broken Arrow' as I have dubbed it has only four and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous (80) and it moves at a rate of 2/3. A single massive Arrow IV Artillery System with 10 rounds of ammo is its only weapon making it strictly rear line fire support.  Single Heat Sinks could lead to heat problems but this wouldn't be horrible. So congratulations you successfully broke the rules and delivered a winner!

7. UM-B64 (Takiro)
This Free Worlds League refit used in the Civil War which gains maneuverability thanks to parts from the Wasp or Stinger is vital to the storyline. Should be fun seeing if Isis forces can beat this Blazer armed 4/6/4 trashcan with a Medium Laser for backup and Double Heat Sinks to cool it down. While Alpha Strikes can present overheating especially when combined with movement this Laser Shotgun toting war machine might just stand a chance. Especially with six tons of Ferro-Fibrous (105) providing max protection.

6. UM-D02 (Bradshaw)
Good as is but with the proper fluff this one could have even been better. I really like this Federated Suns variant even though it goes just 2/3/2 and has only ten Double Heat Sinks. With just one more cooler this Mini-Awesome could have moved and fired it's twin PPCs repeatedly. I probably would have forgone the three Small Lasers altogether in favor of the extra cooler and some near max armor. Still five tons of Ferro-Fibrous (91) ain't but what I was thinking for a story behind this winning concept is what about a ComGuard variant? Be a nice completely unexpected Clanbuster on Tukayyid which they were said to have. At any rate this concept is a winner.

5. UM-KH (Irose)
I really liked this Kell Hound refit following Twycross which could serve as a base for an AFFC or merc refit. Going 4/6/4 thanks to a Stinger engine and armed with an ER Large backed by two Medium Lasers it also features a Guardian ECM Suite and Beagle Active Probe. Protected by six tons of armor (96) and cooled by ten Double Heat Sinks only a Jumping Alpha Strike results in a low overheating condition. While I would have liked a bigger punch the big movement and range negate that concern, nice job!

4. UM-R70S (drakensis)
This FedCom upgrade which while expensive is nicely written and ties into my setting development probably the best of any design thus far. The 120 XL Engine is a stretch but previous contests have endorsed this model in production. This enables it to go 4/6/4 and carry two ER Larges for a lostech Phoenix Hawk feel. A dozen Double Heat Sinks can nearly keep up with all the heat and six tons of armor (96) is always a good base for the UrbanMech especially this one which can deal damage from range and hope to escape.

3. UM-R63A (Bradshaw)
Our bronze medal winner was just a simple refit of canon 3050 upgrade which is rock solid concept for militias all around the InnerSphere. Going only 2/3/2 it has five and a half tons of Ferro-Fibrous (99) and is armed with a LB 10-X Autocannon (10) and two Medium Lasers. Short and simple a very effective improvement.

2. UM-R61 (Irose)
This low tech Mini-Vindicator using the engine from the Stinger to go 4/6/4 was the finest concept to me in the entire contest. Very plausible to me that a struggling to rebuild CCAF would utilize such a refit to augment it's strength. Armed with a powerful PPC and LRM-5 (24) it has good range with a possible knock punch. Single Heat Sinks do struggle to keep up with all the heat generated though and there appears to be a minor error in armor factor presented which should be 96 for six tons of plating. Despite that I have to say great job and fantastic concept.

1. UM-R62 (Irose)
Out doing himself with a lostech make over of the Mini-Vindicator, maybe we could call it the Vigilante, is Irose for the win. This new model uses EndoSteel for maximum weight savings and that Stinger engine again to go 4/6/4. An ER PPC replaces the PPC for even greater range and thanks to Double Heat Sinks this new powerful Urbie is a threat to any battlefield opponent. The LRM-5 (24) remains and is augmented by a Medium Laser for further firepower but watch that Heat scale. Minor error in armor factor presented for the base six tons of armor (96) but no big deal. Great job and gold medal to Irose!
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Ice Hellion

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2019, 02:19:13 PM »

Congratulations to the top 3 designs.
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The Remembrance (Clan Ice Hellion) Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1 - 5

Bradshaw

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2019, 12:46:19 PM »

Here's your clanbuster Can't do the 2 PPC and go 3/5/3 without making it a constructed variant instead of a field refit

UrbanMech URB-000


Code: [Select]
Cost: 1,857,700 C-bills
Battle Value: 706

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    3
Engine                        60 Fusion             1.5
Walking MP: 2
Running MP: 3
Jumping MP: 2
Double Heat Sink              11 [22]                 1
Gyro                                                  1
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          98                    5.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            10        15   
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               7         11   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  3     
     R/L Arm                 5         10   
     R/L Leg                 7         11   

Weapons              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
PPC                      LA        3        10      7.0   
PPC                      RA        3        10      7.0   
2 Jump Jets              CT        2        -       1.0   
4 Double Heat Sinks      RT        12       -       4.0   
4 Double Heat Sinks      LT        12       -       4.0   
Double Heat Sink         RA        3        -       1.0
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 02:22:44 PM by Bradshaw »
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2019, 12:57:54 PM »

The Clanbuster Urbie should be 2/3/2 with twin PPCs, 11 Double Heat Sinks, and 5.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor swap. This doubles the your knock out power as this 'Lightning Rod' or 'UrbanThunder' would be twice as deadly to unsuspecting Clan Invaders. Keep it as simple as possible.
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lrose

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2020, 10:55:06 AM »

Playing catch up on several threads.  I’m surprised the R70 didn’t do better.  Of all the variants I made it is the only one that really fills the original role of the urbanmech as an urban defense unit. The others all change the role of the urbanmech to something else.

I’m also surprised the KH variant did so well in some ways it was one of my least favorite designs (but I really liked the fluff - I’ve always liked frankenmechs ever since reading the wolfman in battletechnology mag)

Also as aside note the r61 wasn’t intended as a seperate entry from the r62 but rather to show the history of the design. I love the idea of the cc turning the urbanmech into a mini-vindicator out of sheer desperation
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Takiro

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Re: Optimizing the UrbanMech
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2020, 03:10:37 PM »

Glad you are Irose, like hearing your thoughts on past designs.

The reason the R61 and R62 won was just that desperate idea. I can really see the CCAF needing to mobilize every asset possible especially because of its involvement in the 3rd Marik Civil War.

Movement profile was a big factor in determining winners in this contest.
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